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View Full Version : Rule Q: Shooting at the wrong pocket in One Pocket



NH_Steve
07-09-2003, 06:02 AM
I'm working on some One Pocket rules, and am stuck on disagreement over dealing with a player shooting into the wrong pocket.

Grady Mathews doesn't address the issue in his rules Grady's Rules (http://www.poolbilliards.com/discus/messages/45/47.html?1047969930)

The World Pool-Billiard Association doesn't address One Pocket, although they have excellent general
pocket billiards rules General Rules of Pocket Billiards (http://www.wpa-pool.com/rules3.htm)

The BCA has One Pocket rules, but doesn't address shooting into the wrong pocket, beyond simply
making a ball for your opponent BCA One Pocket rules (http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_onepocket.shtml)

Every One Pocket player has certainly made the mistake of confusion over whose pocket is whose
before -- and had their opponent make the same mistake. Most players simply inform their opponent
(after letting them donate a ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) that they shot at the wrong pocket. But once in a while, the
situation can go further, either because both players got confused, or perhaps because the recipient
of all those donated balls kinda likes the way things are going, so they strategically stay mum /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Clearly, if a player lines up and shoots a ball into their opponent's pocket, all agree that (as long
as there is no scratch, and the cue ball stays on the table) the ball counts for their opponent, and the shooter is not entitled to shoot again (unless they made a ball in their own pocket at the same time). That's entirely clear. But what if the opponent (or referee) fails to tell them they just shot at the wrong pocket, and consequently they simply keep right on firing away -- into the wrong pocket?

Some 'house rules' count all the balls for whoever legitimately had that pocket, period. Some say if the opponent allows the shooter to get 'out' by shooting into the wrong pocket, the shooter wins,
regardless of the fact they repeatedly shot to the wrong pocket.

I'm inclined to say that that any such additional balls made in the wrong pocket in the same inning (when the opponent lets the shooter keep on shooting into the wrong pocket) would be spotted, so neither player would benefit -- beyond the ball(s) made on the first such erroneous stroke, which all agree would count for the opponent. That is, any additional balls made beyond the point when the
shooter was supposed to sit down (not having made a legal ball in their own pocket), would be
spotted as illegally pocketed balls.

An alternative might be that if the opponent (and/or ref) lets the shooter continue in the same inning, then any additional balls (from the point when the shooter was supposed to sit down) would go ahead and count for the shooter, regardless of which pocket they were shot into -- based on the fact that the opponent let them keep shooting. That would certainly keep the opponent more honest in such a situation!

What does the 'house rule' -- or the traditional convention that you are familiar with say about this?

thanx

Tom_In_Cincy
07-09-2003, 07:36 AM
NH_Steve
When the rule is broken, (ball in wrong pocket made) and not caught in time to be corrected, in my experience, the pocket is NOW the shooters pocket. And, it can't be corrected afterwards. You snooze you loose. Sighting a question about 8 ball in a referees's clinic about shooting your opponents group of balls and no foul is called, the shooter now has that group and it can't be corrected. Not sure if it applies to 1-hole, but it makes sense to me.

But, I like the idea of spotting the balls among 'agreeing' players and keeping the original pockets.

If two players can't keep track of who owns what pocket in this game, neither one deserves to be compensated for this error, if later questioned. If its not caught on the first error, why should either of them gain an advantage? Play the game over.

California Kid
07-09-2003, 06:27 PM
If you don't get to shoot again wouldn't that tell some part of your brain that something is wrong?

OnePocketChamp
07-09-2003, 07:11 PM
The rule we use here in Dallas is if your opponent shoots more than one ball in your hole in his same inning at the table without your opponent making the wrong pocket correction, then that becomes his hole for the remainder of the game.

NH_Steve
07-09-2003, 08:40 PM
Switching pockets, huh. That is not something I've come across.

rackmup
07-10-2003, 04:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote OPC:</font><hr> The rule we use here in Dallas... <hr /></blockquote>

Who are you to talk about "rules?"

If you knew the "rules", you wouldn't have blistered me 5-0 Monday night. Don't believe me? See the "rule" below:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote "The Dallas and the Greater Metroplex Pool &amp; Billiards Etiquette &amp; Rules Book":</font><hr> Rule 3:14-8 Subsection 4; Paragraph 2:

Under NO circumstances will it be considered in good taste or demonstrative of proper sportsmanship guidelines (as outlined in this chapter) to play and beat a friend in the same fashion as one would:

Stave off a hungry carnivorous animal.
Pound a rusty nail into green wood.
Defend oneself against a criminal in the course of an attempted robbery.
Beat up a playmate on a playground as the direct result of said playmate saying something about your sister.
In the same fashion as that of a Chef, pounding a cube steak in an attempt to make it tender.<hr /></blockquote>

So...as you can see, you are clearly NOT QUALIFIED to comment on any "rules" question.

Regards,

Ken (yes...it still stings.)

Tom_In_Cincy
07-10-2003, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote California Kid:</font><hr> If you don't get to shoot again wouldn't that tell some part of your brain that something is wrong? <hr /></blockquote>

Normally for most pool players, I would have to agree, but we are talking ONE-Pocket.. there is nothing NORMAL about One Pocket players... that's why I like them and the game soo much..

NH_Steve
07-10-2003, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote California Kid:</font><hr> If you don't get to shoot again wouldn't that tell some part of your brain that something is wrong? <hr /></blockquote>Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, but I was talking specifically about situations when the shooter does shoot again, even though they aren't supposed to, because no one calls the error to their attention. Of course, as Tom points out, both players would really have to be asleep at the wheel -- or maybe just one of them (the shooter), and the opponent is lulled to keep quiet by the lure of all those balls effortlessly piling up in the wrong pocket -- in their pocket -- tricky, tricky, tricky ... /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif