PDA

View Full Version : Pool Player Snobbery



griffith_d
07-09-2003, 12:02 PM
Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players that they believe are inferior players and will not even play them,...even when they used to. It's like they are above those other players now and cannot associate themselves with a lessor player unless forced to in a tournament match.

They seem to overlook that the other person is still the same person, same personality, same traits, same hobbies that they always had. The new "great" player does not care as they are with his/her new found better players.

Using that logic, their new friends will only last as long as they keep playing good or don't do into a slump.

Mmmmmmmm that is sad.

Griff

eg8r
07-09-2003, 12:27 PM
Yup, I have seen it too many times. This is also not only true in pool, but in most things in life. I am not saying all people are like this, however you will always find someone that is this way.

eg8r

Tom_In_Cincy
07-09-2003, 12:27 PM
GriffithD

I have to admit, I am guilty, BUT after having this pointed out to me by a very good friend many years ago, I changed my ways.

We all make some mistakes.. and it usually is a good friend that helps you get back on the right track.

griffith_d
07-09-2003, 12:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> GriffithD

I have to admit, I am guilty, BUT after having this pointed out to me by a very good friend many years ago, I changed my ways.

We all make some mistakes.. and it usually is a good friend that helps you get back on the right track. <hr /></blockquote>

I see this aimed at me and others. Last night at my 9 ball tournament, the semi-pro said he could not play me. I have beaten him in games in the past in the tournament so I do not know what gives.

Also, a friend of mine made fun of this guy who is really terrible. I had a bye and he said he did too because he was playing so'in so'. I just showed my displeasure in his comment and I do not really care for the guy, but it was the principle of it.

I do not care how bad a person is, I NEVER make fun of them or look down on them and will still play anyone who asks.

Griff

Griff

Keith McCready
07-09-2003, 01:10 PM
This is right from the horse's mouth. Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart. But as far as what I have seen, I have always been pretty nice to everybody, even if I like them or I don't. I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all.

I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player. The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves.

Earthquake

tateuts
07-09-2003, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr> This is right from the horse's mouth. Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart. But as far as what I have seen, I have always been pretty nice to everybody, even if I like them or I don't. I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all.

I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player. The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves.

Earthquake <hr /></blockquote>


Keith,

Well spoken. It makes you sound like the ignorant, two-bit hustler you are. Us "nits" will keep to ourselves while "warriors" like you can go prove your manhood.

Chris

bolo
07-09-2003, 01:43 PM
I found myself moving away from the guys I hung around with in the beginning when I took the game more serious. I did not look down on them, but like anything, people change you just seem to move on. We would go to a tournament and before you knew it, they were ready to go. Me I want to stay to the last shot. As far as looking down on lesser players, the ones who do that you would have no interest in hanging with them anyway. It is not very nice, but what else is new.

bolo
07-09-2003, 01:46 PM
He is being honest, would you rather he lied? I have met him a lot of times. He is a nice guy and he is real. I can't say that for very many people.

Kato
07-09-2003, 01:49 PM
I doubt Keith M is a "hustler". Pretty tough for him to rob anyone as he's pretty well known. Me? I guess I'm a nit. I don't gamble. I'd play McCready a race to 7 for a Bud though.

Kato~~~is about to lock horns with Keith McCready Jr. aka Ken Kingan aka Rackemup.

cheesemouse
07-09-2003, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr> This is right from the horse's mouth. Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart. But as far as what I have seen, I have always been pretty nice to everybody, even if I like them or I don't. I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all.

I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player. The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves.

Earthquake <hr /></blockquote>

Keith,

While I won't place my game at your level I will put myself in the same mind set. I could never figure out why some players go to all the trouble of getting out of bed, packing up there gear and head to the pool hall then spend and hour wolfing for the nuts in a match and when they get the nuts not have the balls to bet the money. I take those guys off my Xmas card list...LOL

In a past life I played you a few times...it was a pleasure to donate to your cause...LOL...I watched you match up numerous times...you play with grace and class and you always had a good time, even out running the nuts...Do you remember a place in Beaverton Oregon called the 'Hunt and Fish Tavern'???.....circa 1980'ish...it had a big old life boat in the center of the room where all the wolfing took place.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf
07-09-2003, 02:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players that they believe are inferior players and will not even play them,...even when they used to. It's like they are above those other players now and cannot associate themselves with a lessor player unless forced to in a tournament match.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>

Funny. In league, the real good players seem pretty nice to everyone and encourage the beginners. What I see is the ones who have gone up a couple of skill levels do this more,as some are quite taken with temselves.They often do not see the really good players like As so do not realize they are not that far above the beginners in speed. They are advanced beginners, IMO.

But that is my league. Do not know about others.

tateuts
07-09-2003, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> He is being honest, would you rather he lied? I have met him a lot of times. He is a nice guy and he is real. I can't say that for very many people. <hr /></blockquote>

Bolo, first of all, thanks for being civil. You can see I'm a little steamed.

I don't know what makes these jokers think, just because they have god-given extraordinary talent, that they can walk around calling lower level players "nits".

Well, if he's "real" then he should start sounding like it and not some 50 year old pool hall rat. First of all, I resent him, or any good pool player, calling anyone else a "nit". That's strictly name calling and it is meant to bait people into betting with a superior player. It's the trash talk crap we have to endure playing pool. It gives the game a bad name. You may as well call someone an a**hole to his face. I guarantee I won't let anyone call me a nit to my face.

Warriors? Not quite. Let's just say it brings to mind an old African saying "in his own neighborhood even the jackel is a lion."

This sort of crap is precisely what is wrong with the game.

Chris

Keith McCready
07-09-2003, 02:16 PM
For whatever it is worth, it is guys like you -- that's why I don't even post. I was just trying to be honest. I didn't know that it would offend you as much as it did. Sorry that I made you upset. I didn't realize I was a two-bit hustler and ignorant, and I guess I can't make everybody happy. It is not that easy to do in this pool world.

Earthquake

tateuts
07-09-2003, 02:25 PM
Keith,

You deserve it when you use words like "nit" and "heart" and implying that other people don't have it.

Well, we're out here working our asses off every day, raising families, saving our money to send our children to college because we love them, employing people, and doing our damndest to make the world a better place.

I don't consider it "heart" for someone to foolishly risk whatever they have in their pocket. I don't consider it "game" to walk around begging afterward, sleep in their cars, and mooch for a meal.

We've got plenty of heart.

You should post and it should be you talking, not this nonsense lingo and stuff you've learned in the pool halls.

Don't you realize that people are people, not pool players?

Chris

cheesemouse
07-09-2003, 02:26 PM
tateuts,

You truley are full of $hit and rude...I don't think you read his post with much comprehension. Sight unseen I think you are a nit even if Keith didn't call you one....that's whats wrong with the game, my a$$.....get real you old fart...

Irish
07-09-2003, 02:39 PM
No worries Keith. You have your "fun" players who dont appreciate the battles between 2 people with large cash at stake. Then you have the "real" players who strive to see and be part of the action and work themselves up through the ranks taking out other players like they are stepping stones.

Best part of Vegas this year at the VNEA was the action with you, Scott Frost, Larry Nevel, Edwin Montal, King Kong, Nick Kruger (I wanted to see you play him, my money was on you all the way), and the other top players/gamblers. There is nothing like a match of pool between two top players when the money is high enough to get both players 100% attention. Thats not "fun" pool, that is far more interesting.

Kato
07-09-2003, 02:44 PM
So you're saying someone who plays for fun can't appreciate 2 players going head to head for large $$$$$$$. I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree and tell you that you are wrong.

Kato

nAz
07-09-2003, 02:51 PM
i like to snub better players, it drives them crazy when they don't get any attention. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TomBrooklyn
07-09-2003, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players that they believe are inferior players and will not even play them,...even when they used to. <hr /></blockquote>Sure, I've noticed it my whole life since I was a kid. I've never known it to be any other way. In any sport or competition, as one gets better one tends to seek out and be sought out by opponents of a higher caliber. It's perfectly normal. It's not snobbery though, it's just a natural desire to play at higher level of competition. If someone cops an unfriendly attitude because they got better though, that's a diffferent thing.

=TomBk

George Comerford
07-09-2003, 02:53 PM
tateuts, you are a nit and reading comprehension is definately not one of your strong points. I`ve met Keith in person a couple of times at Joss events he played in up here in New England. I have to say he was a pretty nice guy, very approachable. I even shot with him (mostly racked) for about a half hour before one of the tournies and he`s alright by me. You need to lighten up a little bit. I would hate to see a guy like Keith with the vast knowledge of pool that he has stop posting here because of a jealous nit like you. Keith don`t let any losers chase you away from posting here.99% of us would love to read what you have to say so keep posting and when I see you at the next Joss tourney you play in I`ll buy the first round.

George Comerford



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Keith,

You deserve it when you use words like "nit" and "heart" and implying that other people don't have it.

Well, we're out here working our asses off every day, raising families, saving our money to send our children to college because we love them, employing people, and doing our damndest to make the world a better place.

I don't consider it "heart" for someone to foolishly risk whatever they have in their pocket. I don't consider it "game" to walk around begging afterward, sleep in their cars, and mooch for a meal.

We've got plenty of heart.

You should post and it should be you talking, not this nonsense lingo and stuff you've learned in the pool halls.

Don't you realize that people are people, not pool players?

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Irish
07-09-2003, 02:55 PM
If that person never wants to be a part of the action, either by sidebets or by playing for cash against people of their level then I would say that person is definately missing what pushes those certain players who love to gamble and get into action. You might sit there and watch and go "golly gee, this is neato those guys shoot good" but that is nothing like sweating out a $100, $500, $1000 or any bet that will mean something to ya if you win or lose. There is alot more to watching those matches when you have something to win or lose by the outcome. Dont watch the action, be a part of it, or you are missing the essense of it.

This is what you disagree with?

tateuts
07-09-2003, 02:59 PM
Now, calm down little mouse. I'm sorry I was rude.

But is there some part of what he wrote you agree with?

Let's take a look:


"Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart."

Translation: The gamblers have heart and they are the good guys. The non-gamblers are nits and aren't good guys.

I assume you agree with that?


" I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all."

Translation: unless someone will play me for money, I don't want to talk with them.

You agree with that?

"I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. "

Translation - Pay day. (no arguments there, we all like pay day).

" That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player."

Translation: Gamblers are warriors - they have guts.

Excuse me? I assume that's a fact.


" The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves."

Translation: Non-gamblers are cowards who huddle together in fear.

This is just pool hall hustler crap-ola - not real message here.

Chris

tateuts
07-09-2003, 03:02 PM
George,

Since my reading comprhension is a little poor, I outlined his message above. What part do you agree with?

Chris

Fred Agnir
07-09-2003, 03:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players that they believe are inferior players and will not even play them,...even when they used to. It's like they are above those other players now and cannot associate themselves with a lessor player unless forced to in a tournament match.

They seem to overlook that the other person is still the same person, same personality, same traits, same hobbies that they always had. The new "great" player does not care as they are with his/her new found better players.

Using that logic, their new friends will only last as long as they keep playing good or don't do into a slump.

Mmmmmmmm that is sad.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>Is it possible that players are simply gravitating towards their peer group (as far as skill goes). Or gravitating towards a group of people they see as "the next step" or "the next level."

I mean, let's put it like this. If I want to talk pool at my level, I think I'd gravitate that conversation to someone or someones that I know are on the same wavelength as I am. Likewise, shooting, I think we've all experience the "playing down to the opponent" phenomenon.

I think it all makes sense and isn't a sign of snobbery.

Fred &lt;~~~ knows snobbery

Tom_In_Cincy
07-09-2003, 03:08 PM
Tateuts

I gather you don't like the gambler's trash talking intimidation techniques and other means to get someone to gamble with them. I have to agree, there are some pretty low life individuals that will do anything to get a game.

In Louisville KY at the last 5 Derby City Classic tournaments, when they open the tourny room for ACTION.. you can get a "entire" education on this type of Woofing.

Keith was a victim of Shannon Daulton's gambling triad one time.

What an education can be learned (how and how NOT to enter into Action) There were times that the 'action' before the ACTION was more entertaining than the ACTION it self.

To me.. this is one of the most entertaining aspects of the Pool game.

If you want to elevate the game of pool, by changing its image, you can start by making its history more respectable. Those 'warriors' are the legends that Pool is made of, not the amature league shooting twice a week hot shots, that don't gamble or even test their mettle in a local tournament.

[ QUOTE ]
" The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves."
<font color="blue"> Then by Keith's definition of "NIT" you are one, correct? </font color>
Translation: Non-gamblers are cowards who huddle together in fear.
<hr /></blockquote>

Gamblers and Nits are always going to be around in the game of Pool, IMO this is exactly what attracts the average person (minor or adult) to the game.

But this is not always a "pool" thing, it's prevailent in a lot of amature sports up to and including the Pros.

Gambling is just as much a part of life as about anything I can think of. It's a gamble to drive to work everyday

bolo
07-09-2003, 03:10 PM
I don't know if your mother was frightened by a pool player or something, but you obviously have a problem with pool players. I would not take it so personal. I think he misused the word nit. I don't think he meant it to apply to just anyone who doesn't gamble, just the phonies. The guys claim to want to gamble, yea right, as long as it is a lock. K.M. bets it up without the need for a lock to do so and respects those how will do the same. They are few and far between and that make guys like him stand out. If he comes to your town, you can count on getting a fair game. Of course you have to be willing to get up and play in the first place. Nothing in your post relates to him. The fact that you make the statements you do, tells me you don't know or have ever even seen him play. If you had you could not say that. Terms like "rat" just exemplifies your own feelings of inferiority to such a player. Those are your issues though.

eg8r
07-09-2003, 03:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Gamblers and Nits are always going to be around in the game of Pool, IMO this is exactly what attracts the average person (minor or adult) to the game.
<hr /></blockquote> I have always been told, the correct answer on an exam almost never uses the word exactly.

I do disagree that gambling is the exact (one and only) reason why people like pool. People play pool for many reasons and gambling (act of gambling, hearing stories of gambling, or watching others gamble) is not the only reason.

I think one step in the right direction for pool is for the players and fans to quit using words like "this is the main reason pool is being held back", and "gambling is the exact reason why people play pool". If everyone could get away with trying to find the one thing that pool is, and how they can change it for the better then I think pool will move ahead. Gambling, recreational playing (playing for fun), and competition (tournaments) are all part of the pool world and each offer something to the player differently.


eg8r

Keith Talent
07-09-2003, 03:21 PM
Chris,

Have you gone on the wagon? A few weeks ago, you posted on the value of gambling to hone one's concentration and said you'd taken some money off a local hustler.

Maybe a losing streak followed and now you're busy rebuilding the kids' college fund? /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Not criticizing ... I'm pretty nitty myself when I know I have no chance in a game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

George Comerford
07-09-2003, 03:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Now, calm down little mouse. I'm sorry I was rude.

But is there some part of what he wrote you agree with?

Let's take a look:

Yes,let``s take a look:


"Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart."

Translation: The gamblers have heart and they are the good guys. The non-gamblers are nits and aren't good guys.

I ass/u/me(you know the rule,right?) you agree with that?

accurate translation Nits = chokers, jerks, unapproachable, players who think they`re above the fans
good guys = players who bear down and win,players who will spend some time with the regular players like you and me when they`re not in a match, players who treat the fans like real people

" I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all."

Translation: unless someone will play me for money, I don't want to talk with them.

actual translation: he knows who the jerks are and tries to stay away from them

You agree with that?

"I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. "

Translation - Pay day. (no arguments there, we all like pay day).

actual translation: I like to gamble so naturally I like to be around others who like to gamble

" That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player."

Translation: Gamblers are warriors - they have guts.

1st a proper quote instead of one out of context

" I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player. "

Excuse me? I assume that's a fact.

Yep that`s a fact,that`s what he likes in a pool player


" The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves."

Translation: Non-gamblers are cowards who huddle together in fear.

Actual translation: the guys who wanna be lock artists and never play a fair game. In other words the wannabes,they can all stay together

This is just pool hall hustler crap-ola - not real message here.

Chris

And this is all the jealous rantings of a wannabe, never was, wishes he could almost pool player

George Comerford




<hr /></blockquote>

bolo
07-09-2003, 03:23 PM
Admit you don't know the guy, never met him and have no idea what you are talking about, then drop it.

Tom_In_Cincy
07-09-2003, 03:28 PM
eg8r,

You are correct (well not exactly,LOL)

I've edited my post.. probably after you read it the 1st time. Please re-read.

There are a lot of things that could improve in Pool.

"Perception" is real, unless it is changed.

bolo
07-09-2003, 03:31 PM
Pool exists on many levels, even within the same room. There are guys and girls that come and go, play, have a beer and never see the other world going on around them.

eg8r
07-09-2003, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Pool exists on many levels, even within the same room. There are guys and girls that come and go, play, have a beer and never see the other world going on around them. <hr /></blockquote> I agree. There is no "one thing" that pool is. Many are attracted to the game for many different reasons.

Me personally, I was attracted to the game very early in my childhood. I could have cared less about gambling. As I got older, I have continued to play, however I have zero desire to gamble. I do not think anything different of the next guy (as long as there is not a starving family at home waiting for daddy't paycheck) if he gambles, I just choose not to do it. I don't think this has anything to do with being a "nit" or whatever else. I just like to keep the money that I work hard for and spend it on other things.

On the other hand, I am a sucker for a good story. On RSB a few months back, John Collins lost his right to post on the board after he lost a matchup. This is just another form of gambling, however I loved hearing the outcome. I love hearing all the stories about the game, however once again, these are not limited to just gambling stories.

eg8r

bolo
07-09-2003, 03:47 PM
If truth be told, very, very, very, few pool players actually want to gamble redardless what they may say. Even among good players, in fact they may be the worst, they all want a lock. Players like K.M. are very rare in that they will get up and play often taking the worst of it.

Ralph S.
07-09-2003, 03:50 PM
Tateuts, you are off your rocker on this one. Did you read what Cincy Tom said about DCC? I was there, I witnessed that event also. I personaly think that you misinterpreted what KM was saying. I had the opportunity to meet and speak with him in Louisville and he is quite the enetertainer and a nice person if given the chance.

He may be a little brash at times, but that is just part of his personality and what makes him a draw at the bigger pool events. You will hardly ever see an empty area where KM is playing at any event.

Keith McCready
07-09-2003, 03:59 PM
George, when I see you, I will take you up on that Budweiser. I will be at the first three Joss events. As you know, I am out here on the East Coast now. Hopefully, I will play well enough to satisfy myself and all the other fans who are on my side. It really does help to have the fans on your side, screaming and yelling, rooting for you, especially when you are playing real tough players. Thank you for your kind words, George.

Earthquake

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:03 PM
Keith could be the greatest guy in the world. If he is, then let him talk like it. Otherwise, I can only read the post and judge him by it.

The reason why it bothers me is because I don't like the idea that players like Keith can get away with calling other players "nits" - and nobody else has the "heart" to stand up to it.

Chris

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:06 PM
Bolo,

I don't know Keith. I just don't like his referring to other players as "nits".

Chris

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:08 PM
George,

If that's the best you can do, I'm sorry, but I'm way out of your league. You better find another pen pal.


Chris

Keith McCready
07-09-2003, 04:11 PM
At Derby Classic, it was pretty hectic over there. Hey, isn't all of that barking at each other lots of fun sometimes? I remember back in the '70s, that is all it was, was barking and get to the table, no BS about it. I wish all the tournaments were like Derby, but they are not. One of the reasons why I like the Derby City Classic is because it brings back memories of the past. Hopefully, arrangements over there this next year will have a better scheduling process for the players, so we don't have to stay up all night and get 2 hours sleep.

Earthquake

Tom_In_Cincy
07-09-2003, 04:20 PM
Tateuts

Ok.. Keith called what he describes as non-gamblers that watch gamblers as 'nits'.

What is your definition of a 'nit', I have one and its been on record for many years.
Tom In Cincy's definition of Pool Hall NITS (http://www.cuemaster.com/RSB/nits.htm)

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:27 PM
Keith,

I apologize for calling you an "ignorant two-bit hustler".

I don't know you, but growing up in Southern California and being about the same age, I heard a lot about you especially in my early years, from Ronnie, Buffalo, and others. I guess I just got steamed and wanted to make a point about referring to others as "nits".

I don't want to screw it up for others who want you to post here.

I also would like you to continue to post and I promise to take it easy from now on.

Chris

cheesemouse
07-09-2003, 04:33 PM
Now, calm down little mouse. I'm sorry I was rude.

But is there some part of what he wrote you agree with?

Let's take a look:


"Usually, the people in the stands and the pool players know the nits from the good guys and the people that will gut it out and the people that don't have heart."

Translation: The gamblers have heart and they are the good guys. The non-gamblers are nits and aren't good guys.
***Translation: the people in the stands and the pool players are fairly sophisticated about the game of pool at the level Keith is talking about. They are familiar with the guys that not only walk the walk but stay in action as oppossed to the guys that talk the talk but never match up for the $$$. The nits wouldn't be nits if they just kept their mouths shut, if they kept their mouths shut they wouldn't have the reputation as nits.

I assume you agree with that? ***You assume correctly.

" I usually try to have less conversation with the more nittier ones or no conversation at all."

Translation: unless someone will play me for money, I don't want to talk with them.

***Translation: When you do what I do for a living you learn quickly when your waisting your time talking to certain individuals.

You agree with that? ***once again, yes.

"I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. "

Translation - Pay day. (no arguments there, we all like pay day).
***Translation: There are no quaranteed paydays but I do like matching my skills with other players who have the same passion for the game and get their cookies from wagering $$$ on the game.


" That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player."

Translation: Gamblers are warriors - they have guts.

Excuse me? I assume that's a fact. ***that's a fact.


" The other ones that are a little nitty, they seem to always have their own little clan and they got to live with themselves."

Translation: Non-gamblers are cowards who huddle together in fear.

***Translation: I don't associate much with non-gamblers and I can't figure out what they do with themselves but they seem to be huddled together all the time.

This is just pool hall hustler crap-ola - not real message here. ***when you are a member of a sub-culture you tend to use the language that is understood by other members of that sub-culture or you will be called a nit...

griffith_d
07-09-2003, 04:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players that they believe are inferior players and will not even play them,...even when they used to. It's like they are above those other players now and cannot associate themselves with a lessor player unless forced to in a tournament match.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>

Funny. In league, the real good players seem pretty nice to everyone and encourage the beginners. What I see is the ones who have gone up a couple of skill levels do this more,as some are quite taken with temselves.They often do not see the really good players like As so do not realize they are not that far above the beginners in speed. They are advanced beginners, IMO.

But that is my league. Do not know about others. <hr /></blockquote>

It could be just the Slick Willie's I play at, but I must say I agree with you about league play. It is a different atmosphere than tournament, there is a team spirit.

Griff

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Tateuts

Ok.. Keith called what he describes as non-gamblers that watch gamblers as 'nits'.

What is your definition of a 'nit', I have one and its been on record for many years.
Tom In Cincy's definition of Pool Hall NITS (http://www.cuemaster.com/RSB/nits.htm) <hr /></blockquote>


Yes, you got the idea.

Here is a re-post of a true story from my early "nit" days. The names have not been changed to protect the "nits".



The Nit

My friend Howard was 16 and he played pretty good. We decided to go the pool hall, "Mother's" and play the local hustler.

The word spread among our friends that Howard was going to play for money, and the local car club followed us. Howard wanted to dress up for the event, so he wore a black shirt, black slacks, a big white studded belt, and white shoes. He looked like Elvis.

We pull up in front of Mothers with a train of at least 10 lowered, custom cars. Howard comes stroking through the pool hall doors like he owned the place, followed by his entourage of at least 20 surly looking low-rider kids.

As the drama unfolded, all eyes turn to the scene. It was like Fast Eddie himself came in looking for the Fat Man. He walked up to the local hustler, a hardened bearded biker type and said "I come here to play you for money". The player looked a little nervous and said "I dunno, how much?". Howard said "50 cents a game". The hustler said "you gotta be sh*tting me. You come here with 20 guys, white shoes, and a big white belt and you only want to play for 50 cents a game?". Hell, we thought that was a lot!

Howard lost two games, quits, and says"split the time?".

Chris

Barbara
07-09-2003, 04:36 PM
We used to have this girl that played on the Semi-Pro Tour that used to get invited to fill out the WPBA events even though she couldn't win a Qualifier. So whenever she got to these events, Vegas comes to mind, and she was schmoozing with the Pros, she wouldn't recognize anyone on the SP Tour anymore.

That's just plain snobbery.

But I've seen a fair share of newly minted WPBA Touring Pros from my tour that still remain downright friendly to the SP girls. These friendships are still there from the memories of traveling on the road for a few years. At one event, even though she didn't "make her bones" through my tour, Tiffany Nelson offered to run the chart or help at whatever for me and my ex-RTC. She couldn't play in the event and was just watching. Now that's nice!

And then there's some of the WPBA Touring Pros that always say hello to me - Fran, Dawn, Belinda Bearden/Campos (what a lady!), Robin Dodson, Candi Rego, and there are more.

So I've seen the whole gamut.

Barbara~~~would still hang out with my bar league buddies any day of the week, so long as the bar is smoke free...

griffith_d
07-09-2003, 04:38 PM
Could be, but mainly it is the semi-pro and a couple of others that treat people with disrespect because they are lessor players. Most everyone else is ok, even people that can be the semi-pro in the tournament.

As I have gotten better I still hang with the same friends and treat them the same, even though I beat them all of the time or someone beats me all of the time.

Griff

tateuts
07-09-2003, 04:49 PM
Cheesemouse,

Nothing could be more wrong than judging the amount of courage a man has by how much he bets on pool.

Chris

cheesemouse
07-09-2003, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Cheesemouse,

Nothing could be more wrong than judging the amount of courage a man has by how much he bets on pool.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>

tateuts,

I want the guy who choice wisely, plans strategically, practices his craft continuously, willingly confronts his foe, is a student of human nature, knows when to hold'm and know's when to fold'm to lead my platoon...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

George Comerford
07-09-2003, 06:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> George,

If that's the best you can do, I'm sorry, but I'm way out of your league. You better find another pen pal.


Chris <hr /></blockquote>

At least your striving to get up to the bigs Chris. I can see by some of your latest posts that you`ve seen the error of your ways. I applaud you for it. The apology to Keith was a nice effort. I would like to think that most people could see the benefit of having a guy like Keith posting here. I`ve seen too many pro`s driven away from other boards by things like this. Didn`t want to see it happen again.

George &lt;----doesn`t need any new pen pals. Sorry.

griffith_d
07-09-2003, 06:31 PM
That is a good post,...I know Annie of http://www.annieosproshop.com/ and have been to her shop many times, played pool with her and she has even invited me to be on a league,...her pool ability has never gone to her head. It is good to hear about others.

Griff

Vagabond
07-09-2003, 07:41 PM
Howdy Keith,
Are u going to Gabriel`s 9 Ball open in AUG in Las Vegas? I will be playing in that event.
U beat me in the past(1991/92).I am ready for a grudge match
Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

griffith_d
07-09-2003, 09:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr>
I have always liked the people who will gamble and get up there and bet their money. That shows me a little more of a warrior or combat specialty. That's what I like in a pool player.
Earthquake <hr /></blockquote>

People that gamble do not impress me,...I used to hustle and only play for money,..if you wanted to play me, it was for money or "get outta my face" attitude. What impresses me is the quality of the game, the attitude of the person towards others and how they conduct themselves as losers.

I quit hustling a long time ago as I did not like myself anymore. I picked on the drunks, took their money and did not care about anyones feelings.

Now I still gamble, but do not hustle. I like to play the people I know for a friendly wager, have a drink and have a good time. I play in a weekly 9 ball tournament,..took 3rd three weeks ago,... and enjoy the game. Without the enjoyment it becomes work,....

Griff

Kato
07-09-2003, 09:18 PM
So you are under the impression that I've never been a part of it huh? Well Irish, you are wrong. I have quite a history of gambling and have made a conscience choice not to do it anymore. What's more important? Being a part of the action or going bust and scrambling to pay the mortgage? So been there, done that, not interested in doing it anymore and if you think I don't sweat every shot like I'm gambling on it then again sir you are wrong. Call me a nit if you want, that's fine. Again, I disagree.

Kato

bolo
07-09-2003, 09:49 PM
You are not at all what he is talking about. You did not gamble at all you were just a predator. I doubt you played too many matches that went on for days almost dead even and kept coming back for more. I have played plenty of guys like you, if you break even the game is too tough and you want weight the next time. I don't think most guys that gamble think less of those that don't gamble, just those that pretend to.

cheesemouse
07-09-2003, 10:07 PM
griff,

[ QUOTE ]
People that gamble do not impress me,...I used to hustle and only play for money,..<hr /></blockquote>

You seem to be implying that the Earthquake is hustling. I don't think Keith is sneaking up on hapless drunks and tricking them out of there hard earned cash. I have to assume that the people he gambles with are fully aware of the situation and willingly enter the fray...geez.....I don't give a hang if you or anyone plays for money, you/they can do whatever they want but a nit is someone who pretends to gamble, who talks about gambling but never does, who wolfs about games that are never going to happen, in other words a total waist of time and a real pain in the butt to those that really do play for money...you know who they are we all know who they are. They are a fixture in any decent poolhall. No good poolhall is complete without one or two. Hell, they are part of decor and flavor of the place. If the owner of the poolhall didn't have a nit as a regular he'd have to hire one just to be an offical poolhall. A nit would be someone who played good and picked the pockets of hapless drunks and thought that was cool...nits give the game a black eye not guys that do what they say they're going to do. I think anyone that gets defensive about being called a nit is a nit. Thanks for the opportunity to rant...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nightstalker
07-09-2003, 10:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>I think anyone that gets defensive about being called a nit is a nit.<hr /></blockquote>
BINGO! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf
07-09-2003, 10:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> They seem to overlook that the other person is still the same person, same personality, same traits, same hobbies that they always had. The new "great" player does not care as they are with his/her new found better players.


Griff <hr /></blockquote>

I know at least a part of this thread got off into gambling, but seriously, i see this type of snobbery everywhere not just in pool. Somebody gets getter, usually not that much, and they think they are too good to play with thier previous friend,if you want to call that a friend. Now, I can see why a pool player who is getting better, would like to play with better players to improve their game, but dumping their friend tells something about their character.

Regardless of whether it is pool or something else, I see this alot with medicre players 'who are scratching and clawing their way to the middle'.

I think that a very advanced player will often take a little time to help a beginner, provided they are sincere about pool. I have seen this in league but also in some A players I have met at touraments.

I play better players all the time. They sure have not dumped me. That is because they know I am sincere, trying my best, and they believe I will get better in time.They also play better players to help their own game Then there are those players who are just goofing around, and these A players feel they have better things to do than waste time on insecure players.

I have other things I am good at besides pool. I have the same attitude. I am friendly but only have a limited amount of time so spend it on people who will benefit the most from what I am trying to say.

It is different if the player now playing beneath my speed is a close friend. Then I will still play with them but not as much as I play with others who can help my game. In that case, I might try to find other things to enjoy with that friend, besides pool.

As someone pointed out before, 'playing down' very much hurts a person's game.

Since everyone that I meet in person,knows I am sincerely tring to get better, I have yet to meet a really rude person at league or when competing in tourneys where the players were above my speed. Except for a couple who thought themselves better than they are, in the fake ego stuff, it just is not a problem for me.

I think it is easy to have hurt feelings over this. I try to remembe that the better player needs to play with better players most of the time, to improvr threir game. So I apprciate the time they spend with me and am okay when they need to play up.

Laura

Steve Lipsky
07-09-2003, 11:16 PM
I think this is sort of a broad subject - too broad to paint with just one brush.

There are so many factors. First, I can't quite draw the connection, as it seems others may have, between not playing with someone anymore and "dumping him as a friend". These are two different things. They're both possible, of course, but one does not imply the other.

Anyone that stops talking to someone because of the way he plays is pretty much a total idiot.

But not playing with others based on their skill level can be another thing. If there is a significant difference in speed, the game can be downright silly. It doesn't do either player any good, for the most part.

There's also the issue, which wasn't clearly defined in the original post, as to what type of set the two usually played. Some players like to play quiet, serious sets. Others don't. Is it possible that the player who got better wanted to play more serious sets than the other player? I have no idea.

Is there a better game available for the stronger player at that exact moment? It's kind of an unwritten rule (at least in my area) that if a better game for one of the players opens up, he can take it.

Does the lesser player exhibit a respectful attitude, on the table, towards the better player? If not, the better player is allowed to feel it is a waste of time. If the lesser player is not taking the chance to learn - maybe even asking questions - what benefit is there to the stronger player?

So... there are many dynamics at play here. And it is very difficult to say, one way or the other, if the better player is a snob - at least based on the way the original post was framed.

- Steve

Ralph S.
07-10-2003, 01:02 AM
Excellent response Steve.
TAP! TAP! TAP!

Lester
07-10-2003, 04:34 AM
Kato, based on what he said, If you can appreciate two players going head to head for alot of money - then he doesn't consider you a "fun" player.

KEITH, missed you at Champions Tuesday night!

bluewolf
07-10-2003, 05:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> I think this is sort of a broad subject - too broad to paint with just one brush.


But not playing with others based on their skill level can be another thing. If there is a significant difference in speed, the game can be downright silly. It doesn't do either player any good, for the most part.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

tap tap. An A player giving tips to and being friendly to a C player can be one thing, as they are to me. Playing them, as you say is another thing and silly. If we are talking about a B player and a C player, they can have a game ocasionally. But the B still needs to play up a lot, imo, if they want to get better and ultimately become A.

Example= 2 players were sl5-6; one becomes a good sl7. if the sl7 plays the 5 ocasionally, it helps the 5, but if the 7 wants to become better, it will help them more to play A players.

We sortof have that here. Good sl7s. They play 5-6s ocasionally and at best each other. The 7s stay the same and do not get better. ie become A

btw- snobbery is one thing, not associating with you, looking down on you. Scott, Randy, even Charlie williams do not look down on me, they encourage me. But i do not play them. How could you even come up with a spot that would not be silly between an A+ player and a c-d player. Gosh ww (B) and I are just getting so we can play without a ridiculous spot.

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 06:03 AM
Hear the finals came down to Pookie and Ryan. See you in Sterling, Virginia, on the 19th.

Earthquake

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 06:06 AM
<hr /></blockquote>

but a nit is someone who pretends to gamble, who talks about gambling but never does, <hr /></blockquote>

I know these kinda of people,...they are jerks(you call them nits) they think they are big time, but basically they are a Volkswagen parking in a big rig parking spot.

But this post has nothing to do with gambling,...why it went there I do not know. It is not about getting better and then playing better people to get better.

Think about it for a little while here,..........is that enough?

Most games played are between better players and lessor players; otherwise matches would be won by one game only. Someone posted that a B player should play mostly A players to get better,...well then the game is once again a better playing a lessor,...it is all relative.

My whole point here is nothing about gambling!! it is about how players treat other players (win or lose) that they "think" are lessor. The lessor might can even kick the better player's butt,...but the point is that the "better" player should not make fun, look down, point out faults,...whatever toward the other player in a detrimental way. If you love the sport of pool why would anyone do that?

Someone mentioned Scott Lee in this thread and how he treats people,....it is people like Scott that treats everyone equally with respect no matter what level of game that makes people want to continue playing pool and have a good time.

Everyone can be beaten on any given day,...it is how you conduct yourself in the field of play that I respect.

Griff

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 06:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Irish:</font><hr> No worries Keith. You have your "fun" players who dont appreciate the battles between 2 people with large cash at stake. Then you have the "real" players who strive to see and be part of the action and work themselves up through the ranks taking out other players like they are stepping stones.

Best part of Vegas this year at the VNEA was the action with you, Scott Frost, Larry Nevel, Edwin Montal, King Kong, Nick Kruger (I wanted to see you play him, my money was on you all the way), and the other top players/gamblers. There is nothing like a match of pool between two top players when the money is high enough to get both players 100% attention. Thats not "fun" pool, that is far more interesting. <hr /></blockquote>

I am sure there are some "fun" players that would never gamble, but there are a lot a "real" players in Vegas that never gamble that play in league play.

Remember the old saying, "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog",....so big stakes pool does not always mean big man,...it might just mean big fool with more money than the guy that can really play.

Griff

Fred Agnir
07-10-2003, 06:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> On RSB a few months back, John Collins lost his right to post on the board after he lost a matchup<hr /></blockquote>This isn't right. John (Collins) Barton never lost his right to post. He was forced to put some verbage at the end of every post he made espousing the virtues of another casemaker's work.

It was Deno Andrews that lost his right to post for 6 months. That sucked for the rest of us, as Deno has always been one of my favorite posters.

Fred

Rich R.
07-10-2003, 07:12 AM
Keith, I would like you to expand on your definition of a "nit".
From your post, it seems that, if you are a gambler, you are not a nit, but if you don't gamble, you are a nit.
I would like to think you have a better definition of a nit, rather than a "non-gambler."

I personally think that some players, who gamble, are bigger nits than some who don't gamble.
I also believe that some one who has a healthy respect for the game, is not necessarily a nit, because they don't gamble. Some people just choose not to gamble.

I have gambled on pool in the past, I don't now, but I may in the future. I don't think gambling makes or breaks a nit. It is more in the personality of the person.

Please give us YOUR definition of a "nit".

Wally_in_Cincy
07-10-2003, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr>.....It really does help to have the fans on your side, screaming and yelling, rooting for you, especially when you are playing real tough players. ....... <hr /></blockquote>

There are about 32 CCB "nits" who are going to plunk down between $500 and $1000 to attend the US Open and do just that.

Good luck.

Wally~~nit

bolo
07-10-2003, 08:25 AM
I always like to give the example of the guy that complains how no one will gamble and there is no action in the pool room proclaiming everyone a bunch of nits. What he is saying there are no suckers for him to play, let him make a fair game and he will get all the action he wants and can bet with both hands. He never will though, he will just complain how everybody wants a spot. Sure they do, he is a better player and has to give weight to make a fair game to gamble. Becoming a better player does not entitle him to steal.

eg8r
07-10-2003, 09:30 AM
I knew I would get it mixed up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I thought John was not allowed to post for awhile, but I was wrong.

Thanks for clearing it up.

eg8r

RedHell
07-10-2003, 09:33 AM
Wow this was an interesting thread...

2 Things I noticed....

First there is two subjects been discussed here. One looking down at a less skilled player. Two, What makes a nit and who's a gambler...

On the firt subject, ie looking on players, many good posts were made regarding playing with a less skilled player. Here's my 2 cents:

I for one I'm used to play with a less skilled player, not because I'm a great player, but because I often play with my wife who doesn't have my experience and my knowledge. At first I really enjoyed playing with her, even if I was a lock to win playing left handed with an eye closed. But for one thing, she was asking question and listening to suggestions and instructions.

Now she has become a better player, she can run out in 8 balls, and gets away with the 4 balls runout in 9 ball. Guess what, I'm still a lock for the wins tho I now have to play her right handed with both eyes open, but she has stopped accepting suggestions and instruction... That has brought me to dislike playing her.

You see, when you play a less skilled player you don't get satifaction of winning. But when you play a less skilled player and help him get better, you get a great reward out of the time you spent playing him or her.

So, I personnaly don't care if you're better or weaker, I care about the reward after the match. If I'm a lock to beat you and you dislike receiving a few hints here and there, I won't play you, why should I ? It's no fun. And I don't think this is snobbery....

Now for the gambling part, I'm no big gambler, there's isn't much of gambling where I play, in fact finding action is damn hard to do. Of course we have our little 20$ matches here and there but rarely more than that. In any case, for what I understood, Keith is definning nits the big mouth that wanna show it all but never belly up the jellies and test their skills. On the opposite, what many understood was that Keith was calling nits any player that won't gamble. As often on the net, this hold to a simple mis-understanding.

BTW, I would love to gamble with any of you here, I just don't think my budget would meet your expectations... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TomBrooklyn
07-10-2003, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Keith, From your post, it seems (you think) that if you are a gambler you are not a nit, but if you don't gamble, you are a nit.<hr /></blockquote>That's not the way I read Keith's post, Rich. I gamble very little and I didn't feel like he was calling non-gamblers nits. I don't think he defined who he meant was a nit, he just said there are some. There is nothing inaccurate about that unless you dispute that there is such a thing as a nit.

=TomBk

NH_Steve
07-10-2003, 10:23 AM
My definition would describe the numerous posters that, despite their usual lack any particularly redeeming pool knowledge to contribute to this pool forum, feel compelled to puff themselves up to give every single pro that happens to drop in to post here a hard enough time that the pros quickly decide they don't need that abuse -- so they leave this forum. Which is rather unfortunate, as the CCB ends up falling to the lowest common denominater.

I'm sorry, but if the shoe fits, wear it /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

NH_Steve
07-10-2003, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> ...I don't know what makes these jokers think, just because they have god-given extraordinary talent, that they can walk around calling lower level players "nits".

...This sort of crap is precisely what is wrong with the game.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>You know you come across as if you mainly resent his God-given talent, and are jealous that you aren't gifted enough to make playing pool your full time vocation /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Your sort of crap is precisely what is wrong with this forum /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Qtec
07-10-2003, 10:38 AM
Rich, I might actually agree with you on this one. This whole thread has gone off topic.

The original post was about two players who normaly play together . One gets better , seeks better players to play [ normal ] but because he has advanced a level , suddenly ignores his 'friend'. Its not about a pro/semi-pro not wanting to play the sl/4.

To progress in any sport you have to play better players. Thats a fact.You have to constantly put yourself under 'pressure'. You can recreate the 'pressure'that you would experience in a tournament by playing pool FOR something. Usually , money is the medium used. When it changes from 'want to win 'to 'have to win ',you will experience 'pressure'. At this point , the weak fail and the strong survive.It is a test .

When you win ,the thrill that is experienced can become addictive but to reproduce this 'hightened state of awareness', to get that 'Buzz' , you have to play for bigger and bigger stakes .This is IMO , at the point that , when you play pool to live , your attitude can change.

A sportsman is not busy with making money . He is trying to be the best he can at his chosen sport. Winning is all that counts. [ This sportsman would find it difficult to get a game tho , if he didnt want to play for money .For him it would be real but for the other guy ??]


A gambler , on the other hand , is busy with beating the odds. He has no respect for money . Money is a means to gamble , thats all .He,s not gonna play some guy who isnt going to play for cash. The game is not important. He wants that thrill that he gets from gambling.

The weasel , on the other hand ,always wants the odds in his favour. He wants to make a buck .
The game is not important.

To answer the question , the 'better player '"in this instance ,is an a-----le.






To some people , pool is life and death , its the air that they breath.

To others , its just a game . I will tell you a secret , it IS just a game .


I,m sure my old sparring partner eg8r would say ,
"let he who is without sin , cast the first stone ".

Q____detects a hint of the pack mentality here /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif.


Q

Steve Lipsky
07-10-2003, 10:50 AM
Hey Steve,

My only complaint, if you can call it that, with the pros posting here is this: I don't recall too many instances (read: none) where they describe difficult table positions they have come across, and how they dealt with it.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have Keith, Charlie, Grady, etc... show a situation they had in, say, the US Open, and what they did from there?

It would be even better if they did this for a strange shot that came up on an AccuStats tape, and those of us with the tape could read their thoughts here.

Imagine how much we could all learn from a pro starting a thread on when to go 1 rail with inside, as opposed to 2 rails with outside?

Keith's opinion of a nit is cool, and I happen to agree with him. But his standing as a professional player is not necessary for him to be entitled to this opinion. I don't think anyone should have jumped on him, but I didn't really think the post had any relevance to begin with.

What the pros have to offer, IMO, is their vast knowledge of the game. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten much of that.

- Steve

Wally_in_Cincy
07-10-2003, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>

.......What the pros have to offer, IMO, is their vast knowledge of the game. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten much of that.

- Steve

<hr /></blockquote>

Except for Fran. Folks get on her sometimes for having a bit of a temper but she does share her knowledge and I think people don't appreciate that as much as they should.

Steve Lipsky
07-10-2003, 11:10 AM
Good point, Wally.

- Steve

tateuts
07-10-2003, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> ...I don't know what makes these jokers think, just because they have god-given extraordinary talent, that they can walk around calling lower level players "nits".

...This sort of crap is precisely what is wrong with the game.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>You know you come across as if you mainly resent his God-given talent, and are jealous that you aren't gifted enough to make playing pool your full time vocation /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Your sort of crap is precisely what is wrong with this forum /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Steve,

It's a legit point of view although I overreacted to Keith's post.

I think there was a lot of good that came out of this whole thread. In fact, I think this is one of the frankest, most honest threads yet on pool room behavior, posturing, name calling, and pecking order.

You are entitled to your opinion as well, but we shouldn't be censored for saying what's on our minds.


Chris

bolo
07-10-2003, 11:19 AM
I think the primary reason I prefer to play for money is it assures me the other guys best game and makes for a better match. You would be surprised, it is not the amount of money that matters. You can be playing $5. nine ball and if one player get stuck, you will see him get into the game and you will have a good contest. This just does not happen for nothing. Even two players that think they are really into the game for nothing are not really. In fact if a player is behind in games for nothing they may even stop trying as a sort of, "I don't really care anyway attitude". I just have had it happen to me too many times. I would rather play by myself then with someone that doesn't try or fools around, not if I am serious about practicing.

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 11:28 AM
<hr /></blockquote>

The original post was about two players who normaly play together . One gets better , seeks better players to play [ normal ] but because he has advanced a level , suddenly ignores his 'friend'.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am glad you recognize what the post is about,...because the whole subject could be under the umbrella of that everyone gambles or no one gambles. It does matter at what level the/their game is at.

Griff

bluewolf
07-10-2003, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I think the primary reason I prefer to play for money is it assures me the other guys best game and makes for a better match. You would be surprised, it is not the amount of money that matters. You can be playing $5. nine ball and if one player get stuck, you will see him get into the game and you will have a good contest. <hr /></blockquote>

Gosh, I never thought of this. It seems right to me. Playing a match or even in a tournament, I think I am playing my best, but I know that win or lose, no big deal. Maybe a little money would make me bare down even harder. I have noticed that the harder I bare down, the more those difficult long shots go in and other hard things too!!! Your post was like a big ahh hah to me, like lights coming on. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

bolo
07-10-2003, 12:11 PM
Don't run out and begin gambling all of a sudden, I am talking about myself. You will find most players are not interested in a good match, just winning your money.

tateuts
07-10-2003, 12:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Don't run out and begin gambling all of a sudden, I am talking about myself. You will find most players are not interested in a good match, just winning your money. <hr /></blockquote>

Bolo,

Griff did a gambling thread. There's some overlap so why don't we move over to it?

Chris

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 12:32 PM
An example of a "nit" in my opinion: one who gossips or boasts about things that don't affect them and/or is none of their business; one who tries to be somebody that they are not; one who brags their bank roll is bigger than yours, can and will play you any way you want for any amount of money, and then, when you agree to the game the nit wants to play and for how much, they then want to change the game originally agreed upon or play for a much lesser amount than originally agreed upon because apparently they didn't want to really play from the start; the guy who has a pack of cigarettes in his back pocket and then bums one from you saying he has no cigarettes.

When I talk about trying to play, I am very sincere about playing. It has got nothing to do with a player of lesser capability or one who does not wish to gamble. I know a lot of really nice people who don't gamble, and it doesn't make them a bad guy or a nit because they don't gamble. When you play pool as much as I have, you sort of know a nit when you see one.

End of this month, I will be playing in Goldsboro, North Carolina, and there will be players there of all capabilities for tournament play and action.

Earthquake

RedHell
07-10-2003, 12:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr> I know a lot of really nice people who don't gamble, and it doesn't make them a bad guy or a nit because they don't gamble.

Earthquake
<hr /></blockquote>

So would you play them for fun or just socially without a bet or would you snob them because they're not strong enough or don't gamble ?

Just a question...

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 12:49 PM
You're going to Hooker's? Are you going to play both one-pocket and 9 ball, or just the 9?

-djb &lt;-- Doesn't have Keith's John Hancock on his case yet

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 01:05 PM
I have no reason to snob them unless they start snobbing me. I don't usually play for fun, anyways, but it doesn't make them a bad person if they want to play for fun. No hard feelings. Don't get me wrong. I have been known to play for fun before, too, but it is usually, you know, if I am entertaining somebody. I don't mind playing socially.

Earthquake

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 01:10 PM
DoomCue, I am playing in both. My John Hancock is not the neatest, but it would be my pleasure.

Earthquake

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 01:16 PM
Maybe I'll see you there, and maybe we can play for "fun." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-djb

RedHell
07-10-2003, 01:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr> I have no reason to snob them unless they start snobbing me. I don't usually play for fun, anyways, but it doesn't make them a bad person if they want to play for fun. No hard feelings. Don't get me wrong. I have been known to play for fun before, too, but it is usually, you know, if I am entertaining somebody. I don't mind playing socially.

Earthquake <hr /></blockquote>

Keith,

Excuse my ignorance, it must be the culture differences and all, but it is out of my comprehension that you could manage to find action for everytime you want to play. Here in Quebec, there isn't enough action to do it. One day I will have to go on the road in the US to see such a thing.

I am actually planning a little road trip on the east coast with a friend. Far from me to do so to gamble but I want to try to find a couple of tourneys we could enter to have fun and meet new players. Maybe I'll be able to see this.

Oh and I will be in Atlanta starting on the 27th for a week. I'm bringing my cue and will be looking to play, any good suggestion as to where to go to see such a level of action. Again, I'm not planning to enter in such a game but nothing like seeing it to believe it !!!

Leviathan
07-10-2003, 01:25 PM
K.M.: Man, I like the way you define a nit here--you nailed it. Anyone who wants to know what a nit is, in the future, ought to read your post.

D.M.

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 01:29 PM
It's easier said that done, but I usually try to make things happen myself, but everybody is not like me.

I forget the name of the pool room in Atlanta, but it is a new pool room.

Earthquake

RedHell
07-10-2003, 01:30 PM
Are you reffering to Star somthing ? I think I read something about it here... let me look it up !

Kato
07-10-2003, 01:32 PM
Works for me. Thanks for clarifying Keith.

Kato~~~not a nit according to Grady Seasons /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

RedHell
07-10-2003, 01:35 PM
Found it according to Scott's post it's The Zone...

According to Fast Larry, Scott was wrong and it's StarZone...

Is it the one you're reffering to ?

Keith McCready
07-10-2003, 01:41 PM
Might be, yeah. It's not hard to find the pool room, but I think that is the name of it. It could be StarZone.

Earthquake

RedHell
07-10-2003, 01:42 PM
Thanks, I'll look it up and try to go there !

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 03:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith McCready:</font><hr> An example of a "nit" in my opinion: one who gossips or boasts about things that don't affect them and/or is none of their business; one who tries to be somebody that they are not; one who brags their bank roll is bigger than yours, can and will play you any way you want for any amount of money, and then, when you agree to the game the nit wants to play and for how much, they then want to change the game originally agreed upon or play for a much lesser amount than originally agreed upon because apparently they didn't want to really play from the start; the guy who has a pack of cigarettes in his back pocket and then bums one from you saying he has no cigarettes.

When I talk about trying to play, I am very sincere about playing. It has got nothing to do with a player of lesser capability or one who does not wish to gamble. I know a lot of really nice people who don't gamble, and it doesn't make them a bad guy or a nit because they don't gamble. When you play pool as much as I have, you sort of know a nit when you see one.

End of this month, I will be playing in Goldsboro, North Carolina, and there will be players there of all capabilities for tournament play and action.

Earthquake



<hr /></blockquote>

To switch to the "nit" topic,... you can tell one when the person out of the blue comes up to after watching and wants to play for $100 a game, on a bar table with no cue and saying it loud.

I usually say to person like that,...no, that's alright, but I will beat your ass for free!

That usually makes them shutup and sit down.

Griff

NH_Steve
07-10-2003, 06:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr>

So would you play them for fun or just socially without a bet or would you snob them because they're not strong enough or don't gamble ?

Just a question... <hr /></blockquote>Most advanced players -- whether professional or not -- would prefer to match up with a player of similar skill, if they are playing for 'fun', simply for the challenge of it, nothing to do with snobbery at all.

Pool happens to be one of the few sports where rank ametuers (sorry -- probably spelled wrong) actually do have many chances to step up and compete in the same events as the top professionals -- all they have to do is put up the entry fee at most tournaments, and they're in. Totally unlike tennis or golf, for example. Would you guys complain about snobbery if you couldn't get Tiger Woods to tee up with you? I don't think so.

Qtec
07-10-2003, 09:48 PM
Bolo, I agree , but the problem is this. After playing for big stakes ,most players are not going to get the same feelings in low stake games . Winning alone should be enough , but it isnt .
Q

Rich R.
07-11-2003, 04:26 AM
Thanks for the response Keith. I had a feeling that your definition of a "nit" was a lot more than just a "non-gambler".

OnePocketChamp
07-11-2003, 04:39 AM
Keith, welcome on board, you sure can liven up a otherwise dull discussion and maybe rattle some cages along the way. Keep posting and good luck in the future.

bluewolf
07-11-2003, 05:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Don't run out and begin gambling all of a sudden, I am talking about myself. You will find most players are not interested in a good match, just winning your money. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks. I was thinking about one dollar a game with friends who are currently playing better than I am but not so much better that it would be impossible to beat them.

My pool gets better almost every week, but I lack experience/table time and a little friendly competition could be good. As TomB pointed out, competing more than once a week might help my game.

It seems like it is not just how good you are at potting balls, playing safe, or even some shape skills, there is so much more to it that comes with table time and experience. That is the biggest element, imo, that I am lacking.There is lots of things that I am pretty okay on at the table, but until I can put it all together in a match, it does not mean much. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

Mr Ingrate
07-11-2003, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players.
Griff <hr /></blockquote>

I guess I'm getting old, but damn it, "snob" is a noun not a verb. The word you are reaching for is "snub".

Here is a handy link:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm

Mr Ingrate
07-11-2003, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
Maybe a little money would make me bare down even harder. I have noticed that the harder I bare down, the more those difficult long shots go in and other hard things too!!! Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Which article of clothing do you remove first when you "bare" down for long shots ... and other hard things? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

~~~ I seem to be in a language police kind of mood, but come on, these are 4 letter words ~~~

griffith_d
07-11-2003, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mr Ingrate:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Have you noticed that some players when get to a certain level, that they snob other players.
Griff <hr /></blockquote>

I guess I'm getting old, but damn it, "snob" is a noun not a verb. The word you are reaching for is "snub".

Here is a handy link:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm

<hr /></blockquote>

Hello Mr. Dictionary,....your are abbsolutely correcte. I hatie misspellad wordse ore missued wordes or puntuasion.

Tanks fur tha notic.

Griffs

HOWARD
07-11-2003, 12:33 PM
Dear Mr. Ingrate,

You are truly a "bear" about lingo. I just get along with the "bare" bones of language. I hope you won't "snub" me.

Howard

bluewolf
07-11-2003, 12:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mr Ingrate:</font><hr>
Which article of clothing do you remove first when you "bare" down for long shots ... and other hard things? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

~~~ I seem to be in a language police kind of mood, but come on, these are 4 letter words ~~~ <hr /></blockquote>

ROFL Dave. I just cant wait to meet you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bw

Deeman
07-11-2003, 01:25 PM
"I guess I'm getting old."

Dave,

Hell, ain't we all. Thanks for the tag for the CCB. I will wear it proudly and look forward to seeing you at the tournament.

a fellow oldie! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

07-11-2003, 01:25 PM
According to her, she is a Freelance Writer,among other things. You should not question her command of language. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Voodoo Daddy
07-11-2003, 01:34 PM
Seen it all...Fran, Grady, Charlie &lt;ok, he deserves it&gt; and now Keith. All of you, every one of you could benefit from his knowledge and he gets sniped for voicing his decades of experience. I'm sickened by most of you and I'm done watchin' and participating. I'm gone........... /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
07-11-2003, 01:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Seen it all...Fran, Grady, Charlie &lt;ok, he deserves it&gt; and now Keith. All of you, every one of you could benefit from his knowledge and he gets sniped for voicing his decades of experience. I'm sickened by most of you and I'm done watchin' and participating. I'm gone........... /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Steve,

Keith seems to not be too upset about it and he's holding his own against the few slings and arrows that have been tossed his way. I think he understands that his original post was just misinterpreted. No big deal right?

And you're right..... "every one of you could benefit from his knowledge".... I wholeheartedly agree.

Keith McCready
07-11-2003, 02:27 PM
Well, Voodoo Daddy, I was going quit posting until I read your post. So, if I'm going to keep posting, you might as well keep posting, too.

Earthquake

UWPoolGod
07-11-2003, 02:35 PM
Well heck...if VooDoo gets to post..so do I! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Nice to have ya here. This question is for everyone. How far do you guys travel to play in a...say...$1000 added tourney? Or whatever amount. There are a few here and there in the NW but seldom and far between...and usually have to cross several states to get to them.

RedHell
07-11-2003, 02:39 PM
Keith,

I don't see why you whould quit, there was some interesting exchange been made on this subject. Only one or two flaming post but they were followed by appologies that I think were sincere.

Plus you have so much to teach me about gambling before I make it to Atlanta, you can't leave now /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kidding apart stick around, many of us appreciate your comments.

cheesemouse
07-11-2003, 03:07 PM
Welcome aboard Keith...watch out this can be addictive......LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keith Talent
07-11-2003, 03:23 PM
Hang in there, Keith. I think a lot of folks here would like to know what the real deal is. For myself, I wonder how you guys survive on the paltry prize money that's available these days. Obviously, there are other kinds of pay days, but it's gotta be tough to be out there, week after week, trying to stay on the right side of that fine line between winning and just getting by.

Ralph S.
07-11-2003, 04:48 PM
I think I am with the general consensus. We all seem to have inquiry kinds of minds. Some of your road stories would be cool too, if you dont mind sharing them.

BillPorter
07-11-2003, 04:50 PM
Hey, Voodoo...I know how you feel. I've been around the pool scene for over 40 years and I too get frustrated when potentially valuable contributors (and I'll take a big chance here and add Bob Francher to your list) are turned off by the comments of mental light-weights, newbies who don't know any better, and bitter, angry posters who are always looking to shoot down someone. If you've been around the game a few years, it's not hard to spot the knowledgeable CCB'ers; Rod, Fred, Tom, Steve (you), etc. I always look for posts or replies by the people who I have learned are worth listening to. If you leave the board, that number will diminish by one.

I think it's great that ole Keither with the Ether is posting here. (Keith, if you read this post, I've been watching you play for about 25 years now. Win or lose, you have always been one of the more colorful players out there. You would be making a HUGE contribution to the board if you continue to post and share your knowledge and pool experience.)

So, Voodoo, just keep in mind the probable reasons that some of these nitwits make the comments they make. Some of them are 16-18 years old and just haven't been around long enough to know better. Some are legally insane. Some just use forums like this one to work out their anger, bitterness and frustrations. I think it is safe to say that you could give most any of them 11 to 4 and the break and still have the nuts. Just know that I am one of the many CCB'ers who appreciate you and your posts. Hope to say hi at the U.S. Open in Sept.

07-11-2003, 05:20 PM
Bill: Tap, Tap, Tap!

Voodoo and Keith: by all means, please stick around! I consider it a priviledge and an honor to be able to ask and listen to the likes of you guys. It would be a great loss to CCB to miss out on your knowledge and experience.

Don't let other posters get under your skin. Especially in this case, since it was mainly just a misunderstanding. Even if a nitwit does go off on you once in a awhile, don't let 'em run you off. They will quickly be overrun by the majority who wants to hear from you, as was demonstrated in this thread.

rackmup
07-11-2003, 06:08 PM
Most of the nits here couldn't chalk McCready's cue, much less compete with him on a table, with his knowledge or the places pool has taken him.

As a HUGE McCready fan, I would hate to see him chased off but then again...I don't believe he can be chased off.

McCready marches to his own drummer, not the whims of someone else whose claim to fame is beating some bar-nit on a 7' Valley coin-op with a scoop-jump shot for a pitcher of beer.

If he goes, it will be of his choosing. If he stays, the board is better for it. That goes for VooDoo too. I don't think either of them are going anywhere.

But hey...that's just me talking and what do I know?

Regards,

Ken (hates bar tables (runs from them), bar nits (runs into them...hard) and bar tabs (runs out on them.)

griffith_d
07-11-2003, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> Well heck...if VooDoo gets to post..so do I! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Nice to have ya here. This question is for everyone. How far do you guys travel to play in a...say...$1000 added tourney? Or whatever amount. There are a few here and there in the NW but seldom and far between...and usually have to cross several states to get to them. <hr /></blockquote>

Have you heard of Great White Billiards in Calgary, Alberta. I have played there in several tournaments from $1600 to $1800(Canadian); the best I got is 8th. This is a weekly tournament. Several great players(I have seen on ESPN) that I played frequent the place and very good action is to be had.


http://www.greatwhitebilliards.net/

Griff

bolo
07-11-2003, 06:12 PM
Been reading this board for a long time now. So how many times have you said you are never coming back? I never got the idea of announcing it.

bolo
07-11-2003, 06:15 PM
That is the kind of responce he was fishing for, you fell for it.

griffith_d
07-11-2003, 06:23 PM
<hr /></blockquote> Ken (hates bar tables (runs from them), bar nits (runs into them...hard) and bar tabs (runs out on them.) <hr /></blockquote>

I know you meant, "runs up bar tabs" and "run down nits".

Griff

BillPorter
07-11-2003, 07:05 PM
I imagine you're right...my post was what he wanted to hear from a few people. But I didn't "fall for it," as that would imply I unwittingly fell into a trap. On the contrary, I wittingly complied. I like Voodoo's posts and hope he continues. Would you rather he quit posting? Just asking....

bolo
07-11-2003, 11:12 PM
Quite honestly, posts he makes that are of any value are few and far between, (Read through his history of posts). He has somehow nominated himself to some high order on this board. Too many times he writes to say how he can't stand any of the posters on the board, what is that all about. I don't recall anyone attacking him. I guess he would be happy if he and a few of his friends had it all to themselves, but I am sorry that is not the case. His "I am never posting here again", posts are just a little silly. It is like the TV, change the channel, if you hate reading this board so much, don't, and stop fishing for some kind of sympathy or something, and he does it as he insults everyone. That is all those kinds of posts are, "Oh please don't stop posting, we all like you so much". Give me a break. He is an adult, he can do what he wants, stay, leave, it is up to him without the silliness. That is the last I have to say, I don't want to trash up the board with this stupid stuff.

Blackwolf
07-12-2003, 12:47 AM
Why, you insensitive lout! I remove my white silk glove and figuratively strike you with it.

BW

jjinfla
07-12-2003, 06:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Hey Steve,

My only complaint, if you can call it that, with the pros posting here is this: I don't recall too many instances (read: none) where they describe difficult table positions they have come across, and how they dealt with it.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have Keith, Charlie, Grady, etc... show a situation they had in, say, the US Open, and what they did from there?

It would be even better if they did this for a strange shot that came up on an AccuStats tape, and those of us with the tape could read their thoughts here.

Imagine how much we could all learn from a pro starting a thread on when to go 1 rail with inside, as opposed to 2 rails with outside?

Keith's opinion of a nit is cool, and I happen to agree with him. But his standing as a professional player is not necessary for him to be entitled to this opinion. I don't think anyone should have jumped on him, but I didn't really think the post had any relevance to begin with.

What the pros have to offer, IMO, is their vast knowledge of the game. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten much of that.

- Steve

<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Steve, did you watch the 1st tape on BcN? Throughout the match Grady and Howard exlained how all the shots were being played and the various options. I thought it was great. As for nits, I guess that makes Earl and Tommy nits because they don't gamble - anymore. It is truly sad to see a person addicted to gambling because winning or losing does not matter to them, only the action counts. Jake

bolo
07-12-2003, 09:59 PM
"Why you", Must imagine me doing my Moe Howard impression.

Blackwolf
07-16-2003, 02:15 PM
A continuation of this discussion can be found here. (http://www.playpool.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38)