View Full Version : UPA........The worst thing to happen to mens pool

George Comerford
07-09-2003, 02:32 PM
Can anyone tell me anything positive that the UPA has done for mens pool? I am all ears. I`d love to hear something positive that would make me think that maybe this is leading to better things in the future. Somehow I get the feeling that this is all going to self-destruct and mens pool will be in even worse shape(if that`s possible).


07-09-2003, 02:49 PM
There is nothing positive about the UPA. When Charlie Williams wont even come here and defend himself and the UPA you know the organization is a joke. Pool does not have to be in worse shape because of the UPA, if they left right now without any hoopla and just disappeared then the game would actually be better right away. The UPA is a lesson in what pool does NOT need.

Pool needs a powerful international organization running tournaments and managing the rules, stats, players, qualifiers, ect.... What we need is the PGA of pool. A single, powerful, and unified tour. Instead of having the Viking tour, the Joss tour, the Mcderrmot tour, ect.... we need the Viking tournament, the Joss Classic, the McDerrmot challange, ect.... all as sponsered tournaments on a single well advertised and promoted tour.

Pool is far to spaced out atm with too many small regional tours and no main professional tour that travels the world and houses the best of the best. If golf was regionalized like pool is it would be nowhere near as popular as it is now. The great thing about the PGA is the best of the best are competeing against each other in different venues every single week for good stakes.

07-09-2003, 03:03 PM
There is nothing positive about the UPA. When Charlie Williams wont even come here and defend himself and the UPA you know the organization is a joke. <hr /></blockquote> I think this statement is a joke also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Why should he come on here and defend the UPA? I do wish he would come here and answer some questions about the UPA, but for whatever the reason, he does not do it. I also do not think we would be able to get the President of BD come on here and defend his magazine, or the editors for that matter.

Also, George has little to zero chance of getting CW to comment to this thread with a subject heading like that.


George Comerford
07-09-2003, 03:51 PM
Also, George has little to zero chance of getting CW to comment to this thread with a subject heading like that.


CW isn`t going to respond to this post...... or any other post...... he never responds to anything on these boards. He just spams us with his overpriced pool school crap and moves on. I`m sure he feels he doesn`t owe us any explanation, and maybe he doesn`t but the point of my post is I don`t think the UPA is a good thing. I am however more than willing to listen to what anyone has to say about it and if someone points out something positive or I see some good things coming out of this it is possible my mind could be changed. I`m always willing to listen and learn and if warranted I will also change my opinion once presented with the facts.


07-10-2003, 01:20 PM
I think Charlie is on his way to Cardiff.
It starts the 12th.

07-10-2003, 02:11 PM
Mens' Professional Pool needs to be organized to succeed in the future. Having the players unified can accomplish many things.

- Ensure players are compensated properly.
- Ensure top players are competing in an event that will be an advantage for both promoters and fans.
- Ensuring top players at events can attract additional sponsors.
- The organization can standardize events to ensure quality and consistancy.

These are just a few of the things that an organization can do for the players, fans, promoters and sponsors. Is the UPA actually doing this? Is the UPA going about it in the right way? Will men's professional pool take a step or two backwards to eventually take a leap forward? These are questions that will be answered in due time.

I really hope that the UPA or some sort of men's organization can come through. The unfortunate part about men's professional pool is that players tend to shoot themselves in the foot by thinking short term instead of long term.

I've stated before that the best thing that the UPA can do for themselves is to create a promotional arm. Back in the day, the MPBA and WPBA formed the PBTA, a promotional arm for both the men's and women's organization. Unfortunately, the men and women could not agree on much and separated. The funny part is back then everyone thought that the women's tour would fold and the men's tour would grow. Not so. Don Mackey ensured that. Anyway, my point is the UPA should learn from the WPBA. Have an organization that protects it's players and promotes it's own tour.

I look forward to the day that pool will be as organized as baseball, football or golf. In the meantime, the best thing to do is be positive. Try to improve pool in any way that you can whether you are a player, room owner, promoter, sponsor or organization.

PoolFan ~ A true fan who wishes the best for this great sport!!

07-11-2003, 02:01 PM
I believe if you look at the history of the various tours,
leagues and unions you would find they all wander in the
wilderness before getting hold. I am speaking of: baseball,
football, basketball, tennis, bowling, golf, prize fighting.

If this organization is the correct one or has right leadership I have no clue. But it is a start bad or good
it will be part of the history.

As far as pool goes, no trouble there. Many people are hooked or will be hook by the game and it allures.


07-11-2003, 09:36 PM
i think everyone will agree that there is nothing easy about what CW is trying to accomplish. there are simply too many factions with their own interests. the UPA will fail because money talks and they ain't got enough of it. money gets everyone on the same page. money gets the ball rolling, a tour started, and you wouldn't be here complaining.

cw doesn't come here or anywhere else to defend himself because the bottom line is, changing your opinion is the least of his worries. his concerns are sponsors, players, and organizers. yes, i think his bloated scheme with "pool school" is a farce also, and he's just lining his pockets by using the UPA as leverage. but, what the heck, people are paying for it.

pool is not worse off with the upa. the people who are upset with CW and the UPA are not the demographic that cw is after. upa and pool worldwide are after a broader viewership. that's NOT you and me, because as we all know by now, you and me aren't enough to drive pool. pool will need to expand beyond its confines.

so what does cw care about some posters on a message board.

07-14-2003, 07:51 AM
A couple of questions here just as food for thought...
1. What does a successful Men's pool tour do for the game? How many pool players would be able to make a living playing pool on the tour if it were there? (For a hint, look at how many there are on the WPBA which is the best thing going in professional pool right now.) Does the existance of a pro tour do anything more for the game than give us hard core fans some great pool to watch? Do you think the majority of pool players would rather watch someone else play, or be in a pool room playing? Just how does the UPA or any other organization have anything more than a minor impact on "the game of pool"? Other than the 30 or so "professional players", does any of this really matter to the pool community?

Steve~~getting ready to duck, 'cause I know I'm going to draw some fire on this one! LOL

07-14-2003, 01:14 PM
Thus far the only impact of the UPA has been negative. The present contract which has been "revised by the UPA Board" requires that anyone signing at either the $100 or the $25 level will not play in "non-UPA sanctioned events that conflict with the UPA unless the UPA grants...a waiver". This means that many of the top 150 or so players in the country will be in violation of the contract and subject to a lawsuit requesting "equitable relief" should CW decide, for instance, to have a tournament during the U.S. Open (as he almost did last year).

And you can't just join to support the organization. You must agree to "play in events that have been identified as UPA sanactioned events" even if you are a "C" level player. Therefore, if you don't appear at an event you are subject to legal action. And you agreed to that by signing the contract!

He has his ducks in a row. It remains to be seen how he will abuse his power.