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bluewolf
07-10-2003, 05:41 AM
What is a fair spot between a medium B player and a C player?

Trying to play some 9 ball but do not know what would be a fair spot. I always play up, and would like the spot that one would get if a little better than me.I believe this is to my advantage(helps me to get better) and not so far off because I play better players quite a bit with no handicap. So is why i am asking.

This in APA, but not APA style 9ball would be like a 7 playing a 5.

Laura

bolo
07-10-2003, 08:15 AM
A spot in nine ball will not necessarily help you get better, it just means you will win more games. If someone gives you the 3,5,7, 9, just means the game ends quickly. If you play with your husband you can play where when he misses you get ball in hand to try to run out. That way the game is fun for both players and you get practice running balls. Just setting a handicap so you can win games is not much fun for either player.

bluewolf
07-10-2003, 09:53 AM
Thanks. Great idea. There is not as much of a gap between us in 9ball as there was in 8ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

RedHell
07-10-2003, 10:09 AM
If I were you I would play matches let's say race to 11. If he gives you a number of game up front, it will keep the match interesting and the skill required to win a game remain the same.

Starts with let's say 4 games ahead, If you beat him to 11 substract the games differences divided by 2 of your handicap and start over. If he beats you, do the same adding up. That way you will always tend to get a fair spot.

ie: You start at 4 and win 11-6. Substract 2 (11-6 = 5/2 = 2.5 ) and start the next one at 2.

If you start at 4 and lose 11-4, add 3 to you handicap and start the next one at 7....

At the end you will get a chance to match up with him and you will keep practicing all the skills require to win at 9-ball.

Alfie
07-10-2003, 02:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> What is a fair spot between a medium B player and a C player?<hr /></blockquote>about 7 or 8 to 4

Sid_Vicious
07-10-2003, 02:57 PM
BW...Here's a keen system for ya. Begin with the wild 8 as a spot, and if you lose you then get the wild 7 &amp; 8, then the 6,7 &amp;8, etc, etc. Once you(or whoever is the C) wins, you give one ball back and play again, readjusting along the way. Let it adjust itself and you'll get a much more competitive game out of it in the long run, FOR BOTH PLAYERS.

FYI:If you are "playing for something", then you'll probably not get this system to be accepted. In that case always take the ball(s) spot instead of games ahead. Nine ball is geared for ball-spots, games ahead will eat your lunch against a seriously strong player...sid

tateuts
07-10-2003, 03:12 PM
Laura,

Probably 3 games on the wire in a race to 7, 4 in a race to nine. The "C" player wants the shorter match, the "B" player wants the longer. It's easier to match up this way.

If you want to play by the game, however, that will be trickier. You will need at least a two ball spot to play by the game, or a low ball, like the 5 ball. The 5 and another ball would probably be the breaking point - the mountain the b player can't climb. You could try the wild 7 and 8. I would prefer the wild 6 and 7 if I were you because you've mentioned your strength in safety play. A "B" player has a hard time offering lower balls, because they're usually running 3 - 5 balls and getting out of line or missing. Your strategy should be to pocket the balls you are confident you can, then shoot your safes, trying to get an easy shot or ball in hand when you only need two or three balls to get to the money. You will usually have two or three "end game" chances in each game and that's what you need.

Last night I had 2 "C" players in a row and it drove me nuts. I had to spot each one 5 games one the wire in a race to 7. I won the first match 7 -5. I took very few risky shots and played a lot of safes. In the second match, I scratched on the opening break and the player caromed the nine ball in(a nice carom too, by the way, for any speed player). So now I'm down 6 - 0. I won the next 5 games, then I gave up ball in hand off an excellent hook. He caroms in another nine-ball and it's trunk slamming time.

That's kind of how those uneven matches go.

Chris

bolo
07-10-2003, 03:49 PM
I would always take games in the wire over a balls.

tateuts
07-10-2003, 04:12 PM
Agreed. Too messy, much more difficult to handicap, too many rolls.

Chris

Keith Talent
07-10-2003, 06:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>
Last night I had 2 "C" players in a row and it drove me nuts. I had to spot each one 5 games one the wire in a race to 7.

<hr /></blockquote>

Man, you're generous. I'd be afraid to ask for such a spot at the risk of being called a nit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Had been pondering possible spots against some of the better players at my PH and considered 3 on the wire in a race to 5, plus the break. But that ain't all that much, is it? If I don't win one of the first three games, I'm playing head up with somebody seriously better than me.:p

tateuts
07-10-2003, 07:40 PM
Keith,

It was a handicapped tournament so I didn't have a choice. It was a bad draw - having to give 5 on the wire in back to back matches is absurd. These players weren't rank beginners, either. They could make good shots, they just couldn't run a lot of balls.

Taking 3 on the wire in a session to five is a strong spot because it's a short session and anything could happen. I don't think they're going to give up the breaks too. Play some cheap and see what happens. The main thing is to not feel obligated to play if you don't like the game, or to allow someone to intimidate you into gambling if you don't want to. Don't become someones action or sucker. Make them treat you with respect no matter what the spot.

Sometimes getting weight changes a persons approach to the game and they don't play as well as they should because of it.



Chris

Keith Talent
07-10-2003, 07:58 PM
Yes, that's a pretty tough spot to be put in, you could say.

Me, I'm defrosting my game and testing it some. Had my first break-and-run in ages in a small-stakes game the other night, and the guy was in such a state of shock that he took a mighty long bathroom break. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

bluewolf
07-10-2003, 10:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I would always take games in the wire over a balls. <hr /></blockquote>

What is games on the wire? I have heard of better players giving certain other balls and i wandered also what the best balls to get are. The object is to play a better player, they have a good chance to win, I get a spot but still have to work my a^^ off to beat them.

I do not want the spot to make it even like a handicap, more just making it a little less lopsided,. If that makes any sense. I get a spot, and get to get better by playing, and perhaps even still losing most of the time to a better player.I did beat my apa7 husband at apa 9 ball but imo that was too handicapped.

That is why I said a spot between a b and c. I am not a c yet, but that spot would challenge me and make me bare down harder

Thanks. getting lots of good suggestions.

Laura

Fred Agnir
07-11-2003, 06:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I would always take games in the wire over a balls. <hr /></blockquote>

What is games on the wire?<hr /></blockquote>

Example:

You and Ray play a race to 5, but he spots you 3 games on the wire. That means you only have to win 2 games. Because you already have 3 games (which have been marked with traditional scoring beads that hang on a wire)



[ QUOTE ]
I have heard of better players giving certain other balls and i wandered also what the best balls to get are.<hr /></blockquote> I've been playing 9-ball with the progressive spot. We start out even, with no spot. If I win a game, then the next game I spot him the 8-out. Every time I win, the spot increases (7-out, 6-out). If he wins, the spot goes the other way. It keeps us both in the game, with an immediate goal each game.

I have to spot him the wild out, including the break or else he'll be on the 1-out, which if anything is an ego bruiser. So, my goal is to get the spot to the 1-out. His goal is to get the spot back to even up, or to a point where he has to give me a spot!

I suppose instead of X-out, the progression could be last-X. That is, if I win a game, the next spot is Last 2. If I win again, it's Last 3, and so on.


Fred

Keith Talent
07-11-2003, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>


I suppose instead of X-out, the progression could be last-X. That is, if I win a game, the next spot is Last 2. If I win again, it's Last 3, and so on.


<hr /></blockquote>
Fred,
Think that progressive spot works well when you're playing somebody you know. I had been spotting that way with an opponent who isn't much of a shooter but is a hard-core gambler. When we tried other spots, it became an exhausting haggle after every set if he lost, no matter if he had dumped a couple of easy shots that would have gotten him the dough.

I had in fact been avoiding him for that reason ... progressive has got to be the best way. Then, of course, he wants last 2 or 3 and I want to give him 7-out or 8-out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Still, that should put an end to most of the maneuvering.

jjinfla
07-11-2003, 01:56 PM
A good C against a weak B - the C should get the called 7.
An average C against an average B the C should get the wild 7. Play races to 5. If after a lot of matches the C is still losing then go to the last three. If still losing then go to called 7 or 8. If still losing go to wild 7 and 8. If still losing find a weaker opponent because you are probably over rating the C or under rating the B. Jake

tateuts
07-11-2003, 10:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I've been playing 9-ball with the progressive spot. We start out even, with no spot. If I win a game, then the next game I spot him the 8-out. Every time I win, the spot increases (7-out, 6-out). If he wins, the spot goes the other way. It keeps us both in the game, with an immediate goal each game.

I have to spot him the wild out, including the break or else he'll be on the 1-out, which if anything is an ego bruiser. So, my goal is to get the spot to the 1-out. His goal is to get the spot back to even up, or to a point where he has to give me a spot!

I suppose instead of X-out, the progression could be last-X. That is, if I win a game, the next spot is Last 2. If I win again, it's Last 3, and so on.


Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Fred,

That's the first time I've heard of this. Sounds pretty wild. Have you ever been able to get someone to the one-out? I would imagine it would take some serious rolls or some stringing racks to get someone there. Are these serious games or just cheap entertainment?

Chris

Keith Talent
07-12-2003, 01:44 AM
Imagine getting to the 1-out. You lose, then it's the 2-out, the 3-out ... man, are you set up for some pain!

Think this format almost guarantees a break-even night. That's why I tried to get away from it, in hopes of going for some sort of glory. But this one particular opponent is savvy enough not to make dumb bets ... and he can focus enough to make combos on spot balls. Very frustrating sometimes.