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sprinter
07-10-2003, 09:02 AM
Would you take this shot in a 9-ball tournament? what other options might there be?
wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)
START(
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%RZ2_1%WJ5C8%Xh2J1%[D2F1%\I0C7%eC6a3%bj3D4%cV9E8%dC5F7
)END


It's a fun shot especially when you get the "nice shot" from your opponent, then run the rest of the table

Tom_In_Cincy
07-10-2003, 09:20 AM
sprinter,
I doubt that I would ever consider that shot, unless I was real confident that I could make it, and I'm not that good enough to be that confident.
WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)
Here's the shot that I would play, its safe and gives me a better chance at another time at the table.
START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i5J5%Ql8D5
%RZ2_1%Wr8E7%Xj2J2%[n1D5%\s0E1%]T8F5%^k1D3%eB5b0
)END

But, your's was a great shot, and good win

Ralph S.
07-10-2003, 09:28 AM
No way would I play that shot. It is way to risky. I would play this the exact shot that Tom in Cincy displayed. It is higher percentage for succession and you will possibly get BIH from it.

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 09:35 AM
That shot's pretty tough. It's always hard to tell how reverse english is going to come off that second rail. That's why there's no way I try that shot in a tournament, unless I can't see anything else at all. It's too much of a sellout shot. If you hit the two, but don't make it, it's a sellout. If you miss the 2 and give up ball in hand, sellout. The only other shot I see isn't offensive, it's a kick safety.

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

START(
%Bl1D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i5J5%Qj5F6
%RP3G4%UR9G9%Vk0D3%Wr6F5%Xi6J4%[m9D5%\s0E9%]k8F5%^l8D8%eC1`8
)END

I haven't tried it on the table yet, but I think it would work. I'm not sure if the two would actually go behind the 8-9 blockade to point B, but as long as the two snuggled up to the 6 at point A, it's gold.

-djb

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 09:37 AM
Sorry, Tom's post must have gone in while I was writing mine. We came up with the same shot!

-djb

Ralph S.
07-10-2003, 09:41 AM
Its the same shot I was gonna enter and I am sure it will be a landslide in favor of it.

eg8r
07-10-2003, 09:44 AM
I would probably shoot the 2 this way....

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i4J0%Qm0C8
%RZ2_1%Wn0Z5%Xi5J7%Yd7H5%Zj2C9%[s0P4%\n2Z6%eC6a3%bk5D6%co4J3
%ds0O7
)END wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

and hope that I hide behind the 6 or 5 depending on how hard I hit it. I would like to barely touch the 2.

eg8r

RedHell
07-10-2003, 09:56 AM
I would probably play the foot rail kick but what about a 3 rail attack, would that be possible if you load it with left english ?

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i4J0%Qm0C8
%RZ2_1%WY8C9%Xh5I9%Yj2D8%ZK6[0%[K1Z7%\C2O3%eA3a5%bC8N8%cO3H3
%dX7C7
)END

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 10:35 AM
I'm not too sure your shot will work as diagrammed. If you know the diamond system, the Finish point is 10, since the 2 is on the first diamond on the long rail. Now we just need to find a first rail hit that gives Start-Aim=Finish. Eyeballing the diagram, it looks like the Start point is around 60, which means the aim point must be around 50. The 50 diamond is the diamond to the right of the side pocket on the WEI table. I don't think it's possible to shoot there and avoid the 8-9 blockade. Course, I don't have a real table in front of me to test this, so I'll look into it. BTW, if you don't know the diamond system, there is an excellent beginner's guide HERE (http://www3.sympatico.ca/eric.perreault/diamond_system_en.html) .

-djb

sprinter
07-10-2003, 10:39 AM
Well thanks for all the replies. I'm not the greatest for safe shooting so i'll usually opt for the offensive move first. I've been working on safe shots but in that situation i felt i had a better chance of making the shot than trying any safe. Since i already made the shot and have made similar shots since i feel that if i were faced with the same situation again i would take the same shot, again.

And like somones little message at the bottom of their posts says "you can't make the shots you don't try"

SPetty
07-10-2003, 11:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sprinter:</font><hr> Would you take this shot in a 9-ball tournament? <hr /></blockquote>Geez, I wouldn't even see this shot!

Karatemom
07-10-2003, 11:16 AM
I appreciate you putting that link up about the diamond system. This is something I've had the hardest time trying to understand. Only now, a year later, am I beginning to understand the angles off the rails and attempting 2 and 3 rail shots. It'll probably take another 10 years + before I understand it fully, LOL, but that website is extremely helpful. Thanks!

Heide

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Karatemom:</font><hr> I appreciate you putting that link up about the diamond system. This is something I've had the hardest time trying to understand. Only now, a year later, am I beginning to understand the angles off the rails and attempting 2 and 3 rail shots. It'll probably take another 10 years + before I understand it fully, LOL, but that website is extremely helpful. Thanks!

Heide <hr /></blockquote>

You're very welcome. I would suggest printing those pages and taking them to the pool room with you. Rails are very inconsistent from table to table, so you'll probably have to tweak the rail targets a little. I have to give a caveat here: no system is failsafe. Just as we use aiming systems when learning to make aiming second nature, kicking systems are used when learning to make kicking second nature. At first, you'll have to constantly think about rail targets, english, etc., but after hundreds of hours of practice, these things become second nature and you don't have to apply conscious thought, just as you shouldn't apply conscious thought to the aiming process. But, everyone has to start somewhere, and that's where the systems come in.

-djb

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 11:42 AM
Something like this: You aim over the 2nd diamond in a imaginary position the exact opposite of where the OB is sitting and find a spot in the wall(anything actually). Then aim at that spot when hitting the CB.
START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UQ8D2%Vk7Z3%WY8D0%Xh2J1%Yj8D6%ZO8[0%[C8S9%\W2C3
%]N9[1%^C2U2%eC6a3
)END


It uses Jimmy Reids "over the 2nd diamond" principle. It works great.

Griff

SPetty
07-10-2003, 11:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sprinter:</font><hr> wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)<hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)<hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote DoomCue:</font><hr> WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)<hr /></blockquote><blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)<hr /></blockquote>Thank you all very, very, very much.

And a special shout out to TomBrooklyn for making it all possible, for without his incessant relentless reminders, this probably wouldn't have been possible! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RedHell
07-10-2003, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the diamond system ref, I read it before an work on it a bit but I can't get to inprint this in my brain. Not enough practice with it I guess....

I rarely play a 3 rail shots and brough this one up just to see if it was possible. In my case, 3 rails are all instinct and no system involved. So probably that you're right and the suggested shot is totally impossible.

I'll print out the system and work with it, again !!!!

Terry
07-10-2003, 12:24 PM
Hi Redhell, I guess if their was a one blocking any of the other sugested shots you could try the four rail hit.START(
%Aj5J0%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%I W6J2%Pi4J0
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%W^4C3%Xh5I9%Yh0C7%ZJ8\2%[J2[7%\B6S9%]k0D2%^i0B9
%eA5a8%bC1S6%cO9K1%d]1B7
)END I would hit before the side pocket with a little low in order to get the cueball further over towards the counter so then the spin can take the cueball to the fourth rail before hitting the two, if you don't hit too much of the two it will go into the corner pocket. If you hit to much of the two you may leave him/her with a difficult shot due to the four or three, in any case the fourth rail will make the two a bigger target. Making the hit and preventing ball in hand is better than ball in hand ( most times ). Terry

RedHell
07-10-2003, 12:34 PM
Interresting shot, but does it respect the A=S-F of the diamond system. I don't know...

As I said, my 3 rails shot (or 4 in this case) need to be worked on and tried. It's mainly all instinct.

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 12:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Something like this: You aim over the 2nd diamond in a imaginary position the exact opposite of where the OB is sitting and find a spot in the wall(anything actually). Then aim at that spot when hitting the CB.
START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UQ8D2%Vk7Z3%WY8D0%Xh2J1%Yj8D6%ZO8[0%[C8S9%\W2C3
%]N9[1%^C2U2%eC6a3
)END


It uses Jimmy Reids "over the 2nd diamond" principle. It works great.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Griff,

For the three rail lines that you have, it looks to me like this is going to go long. I see that you're using reverse english here (right english). This is going to cause all of the angles on successive rails to close, and kill the speed of the CB. You'd really have to pound the CB to get it to come around as you've shown in order to have the rock maintain its sidespin when it contacts that third rail. I would think that the CB would lose most of its sidespin by the time it reaches the 3rd rail, which means it's going to achieve natural forward roll, which will cause it to go long (toward the corner pocket instead of the 2 ball). And that's beside the fact that I don't think it will contact the 3rd rail where you've drawn it. With your aiming point on the first rail, I see the 3rd rail contact point being much closer to the side pocket. With your first rail target and right english, here's what I would predict:

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UQ8D2%Vk7Z3%WY8D0%Xh2J1%Yo9I3%ZU6Z7%[C8S9%\W2C3
%]T2[2%^C2U2%eC6a3
)END

Course, I could be wrong, I haven't had a chance to test the shots yet /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Using the diamond system, here's the line the CB needs to be on:

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%]j9D6%^H7[4%eC6a3
)END

I don't see a way to get the CB on that line with a 3 rail kick as the 8-9 balls are pretty big coming off that first rail. Here's another diagram, this one showing the natural 3 rail shot using running english:

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UG1Z5%VC5T9%Wa1D0%Xh5J5%[D0T0%\_8C4%]j9D6%^H2[4
%eA8a4
)END

As you can see, the 8-9 blockade is right where the CB needs to travel. One way to get around those blockers might be to aim closer to the side pocket on the first rail, and use a touch of draw to bring the 2nd rail target back into play. In any case, it's a tricky shot, and I would still go with the kick safety off the short rail.

-djb

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 12:44 PM
This shot is going to go long, too. Check your angle coming off the 3rd rail. Running english will open up the angle (increase the angle created by the inbound/rebound lines). Your diagram shows the angle closing or equaling angle in/angle out (hard to tell which, but either way, it's definitely not opening up). I don't think this is going to happen, even with a little draw applied. If the angle opens up off that 3rd rail (which is what should happen) the CB ends up running down toward the corner pocket, missing the OB by feet.

-djb

RedHell
07-10-2003, 12:47 PM
Hmmm looking at that shot again I realise that you could try to short jump the 2 to bank in or in the 3. A clean jump could leave you sitting behind or close to the 6.

START(
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%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%Uj6E4%Vk7E1%Wk2F5%Xi8I6%]r8S9%^l4C9%eA8a4
)END

Of course that a hell of a short jump and requires the sweetest touch !!!

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 01:01 PM
No way would I try that in a tourney! Good pool is all about percentages. In this particular position, most plays are going to be low percentage shots, whether it's the 2 rail kick with reverse/inside, or 3 rails with running, or the kick safety, or a 1 foot jump over a full ball (!). Personally, I feel better about my chances with the kick safety than with any other option. Giving up BIH on a rack like this would be disastrous. The balls are well spread out, with no problems. I know I can keep from giving up BIH by kicking one rail. I know that I would have a pretty good chance of getting safe behind the 6. Also, I wouldn't take a chance on the 2 or 3 rail route simply because you have to count on luck to either make the shot or get safe after contact, assuming contact is made in the first place. Once again, weigh the percentages. "Do you feel lucky? Huh? Do ya?" as Clint Eastwood would say. Personally, I never feel lucky, so I try to keep as many things under control as possible. I think it's easier to control that kick safety, and I think I have a higher percentage pulling that off, so that's what I would attempt. However, there's nothing wrong with the academic exercise of coming up with alternate shots!

-djb

RedHell
07-10-2003, 01:14 PM
"However, there's nothing wrong with the academic exercise of coming up with alternate shots"

Exactly, I started thinking about the 3 rails shot after saying that I would play the foot rail kick /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tho that one footer jump is makable. Not sure about the angle for the bank tho. It might be to accute !!! The other challenge of the jump shot is to keep Mr. Witthey on the table, the 2 is very close to the rail and won't allow any bounce forward !!! Still I would love to trying it /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Terry
07-10-2003, 01:56 PM
Hello DoomCue, your right where my cueball came of the third rail would be more in line with the three rail kick straight on the two. In no way am i sujesting this to be the shot, but I hit the two with a three as well as a four rail kick with high left off the near rail. I must of had the cueball in the wrong spot when I hit the four railer with low left. I find it hard to get the balls placed perfectly as diagramed on the wei table. It is also hard to shoot your shot and get up quickly enough to point out the exact spot the cueball took on route to the object ball. Terry

cheesemouse
07-10-2003, 02:25 PM
Sprinter,

While I like the one rail kick safety. Another possible interesting shot would be the intentional foul by rolling the six ball on top of the two ball, this would definitely give you another shot in the game and the guy would be denied the runout. He could leave something when he safed back...JAT.....

DoomCue
07-10-2003, 03:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> Sprinter,

While I like the one rail kick safety. Another possible interesting shot would be the intentional foul by rolling the six ball on top of the two ball, this would definitely give you another shot in the game and the guy would be denied the runout. He could leave something when he safed back...JAT..... <hr /></blockquote>

That thought also entered my mind. It's always amazed me that, even though most people think differently, good pool players generally come up with the same solutions to problems on the table. (As a side note, it's a shame we can't all come up with the same solutions AWAY from the table.) Anyway, I think the best attempt at that shot would leave the 6 ball frozen to the 2 so the 6 could not be made in either of the top corner pockets. Even if the balls aren't left frozen, as long as they're left very close together, with no possible 2-6 combinations, that's pretty good. However, like you said, in all those cases, you're going to get safed back, and you give your opponent added power by giving him BIH, allowing him to set up his safety as he pleases. I'd rather beat my opponent to the punch and have him kicking on his next visit to the table, rather than leaving him an attempt at playing a safety on me.

-djb

07-10-2003, 03:05 PM
Sprinter... A bit to risky for my blood... I'd try this in hopes of getting the cueball safe behind the 6 and hidding the 2 behind the 8-9 blockers.

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i5J5%QJ9I5
%Rj6F3%Ul5E9%Vm1E1%Wr5F4%Xj5I7%YI8J1%ZC8H9%[D4H4%\j2C6%eB4`5
%bn5D6%cp7E1%ds4E7
)END

But if someone made your shot against me I'd definetly be impressed... I still wouldn't have gone for it /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif but I'd be impressed. ...Bob

heater451
07-10-2003, 03:15 PM
I guess you could say, that Tom pointed the WEI. . . .

(Insert drumroll here)



========================

eg8r
07-10-2003, 03:20 PM
I agree. LOL, but I think I did not like it in the beginning. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

07-10-2003, 03:33 PM
Tom... like some others I posted before checking any of the replies only to discover that several of us were of like minds about the safety. I did notice, however, that we each seemed to choose to put a different type of spin on the cueball. I've found when doing kicks like that, putting a bit of topspin on the c-ball... it actually takes off some of the pace once it contacts the object ball and on a direct hit can work as a kick/stop shot. I notice you chose to put more bottom spin... was your intention to use it like a stun draw... to control the pace of the c-ball more by slowing it down before it reaches the object ball? I have a lot of respect for your opinions so am just curious. ...Bob

heater451
07-10-2003, 03:41 PM
Funny, I was practicing this with just the CB on an empty table on Tuesday night. . . .

I remember it being more consistent on a 7' table. On a 9' table, I tend to 'stroke' more, achieving too much spin, and pulling back to the rail early. Of course, the angle you have to take into the first rail affects the shot greatly, so you would have to practice it a million ways, to get some consistency.

I might risk it, if it were "for fun", or I was VERY sure my opponent wouldn't (be likely) get out. Otherwise, the 3-rail kick might be possible (which griffith and DoomCue have brought up), or I would use the safety into the end-cushion first--although for the safe hit, I am not sure that I'm skilled enough to get the CB behind the 6.


=====================

griffith_d
07-10-2003, 03:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DoomCue:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> Something like this: You aim over the 2nd diamond in a imaginary position the exact opposite of where the OB is sitting and find a spot in the wall(anything actually). Then aim at that spot when hitting the CB.
START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UQ8D2%Vk7Z3%WY8D0%Xh2J1%Yj8D6%ZO8[0%[C8S9%\W2C3
%]N9[1%^C2U2%eC6a3
)END


It uses Jimmy Reids "over the 2nd diamond" principle. It works great.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Griff,

For the three rail lines that you have, it looks to me like this is going to go long. I see that you're using reverse english here (right english). This is going to cause all of the angles on successive rails to close, and kill the speed of the CB. You'd really have to pound the CB to get it to come around as you've shown in order to have the rock maintain its sidespin when it contacts that third rail. I would think that the CB would lose most of its sidespin by the time it reaches the 3rd rail, which means it's going to achieve natural forward roll, which will cause it to go long (toward the corner pocket instead of the 2 ball). And that's beside the fact that I don't think it will contact the 3rd rail where you've drawn it. With your aiming point on the first rail, I see the 3rd rail contact point being much closer to the side pocket. With your first rail target and right english, here's what I would predict:

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UQ8D2%Vk7Z3%WY8D0%Xh2J1%Yo9I3%ZU6Z7%[C8S9%\W2C3
%]T2[2%^C2U2%eC6a3
)END

Course, I could be wrong, I haven't had a chance to test the shots yet /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Using the diamond system, here's the line the CB needs to be on:

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%]j9D6%^H7[4%eC6a3
)END

I don't see a way to get the CB on that line with a 3 rail kick as the 8-9 balls are pretty big coming off that first rail. Here's another diagram, this one showing the natural 3 rail shot using running english:

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UG1Z5%VC5T9%Wa1D0%Xh5J5%[D0T0%\_8C4%]j9D6%^H2[4
%eA8a4
)END

As you can see, the 8-9 blockade is right where the CB needs to travel. One way to get around those blockers might be to aim closer to the side pocket on the first rail, and use a touch of draw to bring the 2nd rail target back into play. In any case, it's a tricky shot, and I would still go with the kick safety off the short rail.

-djb <hr /></blockquote>

Oops,...I forget to give the CB running english.

It works though just great.

Griff

Terry
07-10-2003, 04:04 PM
I don't see a way to get the CB on that line with a 3 rail kick as the 8-9 balls are pretty big coming off that first rail. Here's another diagram, this one showing the natural 3 rail shot using running english:

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%L l8Z8%Pi2J8
%Qm0C8%RZ2_1%UG1Z5%VC5T9%Wa1D0%Xh5J5%[D0T0%\_8C4%]j9D6%^H2[4
%eA8a4
)END

As you can see, the 8-9 blockade is right where the CB needs to travel. One way to get around those blockers might be to aim closer to the side pocket on the first rail, and use a touch of draw to bring the 2nd rail target back into play. In any case, it's a tricky shot, and I would still go with the kick safety off the short rail.

-djb


Hi djb, if you hit closer to the side pocket you'll get around the 8-9. Give it a try with different speeds and less/more amounts of spin with top, it'll go. Terry

Qtec
07-10-2003, 10:09 PM
Yeah. Right . /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif No way eg8r . Tom and Doomcue are right . Good chance of the snooker .

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Qtec
07-10-2003, 10:11 PM
No chance .
Qtec

Tom_In_Cincy
07-10-2003, 10:20 PM
Bob,
Thanks for the kind words.

Yes. I use bottom off the rails on close shots like that to actually stun the Cue ball after the hit. The OB will take off (from the reverse on the Cue ball) and then the cue ball will just pleasently roll softly (if it hits the OB full enough) in the same area (or maybe even reverse some) OB should go down table rather easily.

Qtec
07-10-2003, 10:24 PM
Wow. Is this supposed to make it easier ?

I dont know this system , but I would agree that this shot is not possible.

This maybe.

START(
%Bl3D2%Cr6W1%Dr9H4%EO4T6%Fj1G3%Gc9R3%HW8H5%IW6J2%P i4J0%Qm0C8
%RZ2_1%W_3D1%Xh5I9%Ys5F3%ZK5[2%[K6[0%\C1O3%]m9D3%^s3F2%eA3a5
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Q

DoomCue
07-11-2003, 05:40 AM
Like anything else in pool, the diamond system must be practiced until it becomes second nature. It takes a little work to memorize the finish points, and the numbering systems for Aim and Start points. Most pool players don't bother with it (3C players use numerous systems, including the diamond system), and I usually don't either. I've practiced 3 railers so much that I generally don't have to think about them too much. It never hurts, though, to have some guide/reference for those shots to make sure you're in the right ballpark when setting up a 3 railer.

BTW, your shot would work, and I know it's just an academic exercise, but the path the CB takes from 3rd to 4th rail almost ends up going through the CB's original position. So why use 4 rails instead of 1? I don't think we're going to come up with a better shot than the kick safety. However, keep in mind that not only did Sprinter choose the two rail inside/reverse english kick, he made it and ran out, so what do we know? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-djb