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Hopster
07-20-2003, 11:14 PM
Im sure this topic has been covered before but at the risk of having stones and much worse thrown at me im going to hash it up again.
I have started playing nine ball <UGH> mainly cause no one really plays straights out here and im now playing in a tourny on thursdays.
If you cant beat em , join em and get beat by em.
Anyway, i been breaking with a house cue but they are all 19 oz or better dufferins and im not really getting good action. I broke few times in another place with a 18 oz valley and got great action mainly cause of the lower weight i assume.
My question is this : If i were to take a dufferin lets say and have weight removed taking it to 17 or 16 1/2 oz and putting a better tip on it, does anyone think this would make a good break cue ? Because i realize speed is where a good break is really coming from and not strength. At least thats how i see it. Any comments or help would be appreciated.

bolo
07-21-2003, 02:01 AM
Not so sure there is a weight to remove in a Dufferin.

Hopster
07-21-2003, 03:06 AM
Not so sure there is a weight to remove in a Dufferin. <--Bolo

I was under the assumption that the butt could be drilled out. Is this possible ?

rackmup
07-21-2003, 03:39 AM
...spend a buck or two on a Dufferin "sneaky pete" in the weight you require.

You'll have those 9-ball hooligans beggin' for mercy.

Or, spend three bills on a Predator BK and become the most fearsome breaker in the house.

When you're up to break, women will rush their children inside and grown men will cower in fear. The Budweiser girls will want to go home with you. Earl will seek you out for advice. You will become a "Breaking God."

If you don't want the Bud gals to leave with you, you can buy a Bunjee break cue. It will do the job too.

Regards,

Ken (the Budweiser Girls just left my place...)

Qtec
07-21-2003, 03:41 AM
From what I have seen at the WPC,is that technique is more important than power.

Since I have been on this board , to my knowledge, nobody has said that the qb should be in the air when it hits the pack .It was the break that was the difference beteen the pool and the snooker players. Or is this something that not everybody agrees on?


Q

rackmup
07-21-2003, 03:55 AM
Power Rules!

If whitey isn't jumping at least a foot straight up in the air on impact, rupturing eardrums and sending people fleeing for their lives, then you must be breaking like a sissy (or someone from the Netheregions.) /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Don't believe me? Just ask Kato. I may not win a set but I sure move the balls around on the snap. Hey...gotta give me props for something after that "Florida Fiasco."

Regards,

Ken (My break again? Goodie.)

Qtec
07-21-2003, 04:48 AM
But the ball is in the air when it hits the pack , right?

The Qb flies over the cloth , not rolling , no contact so no los of speed through friction.
Thats what I saw at the WPC.

Qtec

rackmup
07-21-2003, 05:12 AM
Of course the CB is in the air when it hits the rack!!! If one has the inate ability to "fly" the cueball from it's resting position at the point of impact with the tip all the way to the actual point of impact with the rack, friction from the cloth is greatly reduced. See below:

BcIp = minus Ff + SpAi =(MS) Massive Spread.

Everyone knows this.

The key is to impact the rack at such a point to prevent the CB from flying off the table bed AND getting it to land dead center of the table for the next shot. See below:

Ir - FOF + CoTL = (AdVB) Advantage Breaker.

The belief that a "soft" or "slow" break is scientifically proven to be a rumor at best.

Regards,

Ken (the equations above are the same as those used by Kato to bake cookies and brownies)

nhp
07-21-2003, 06:22 AM
Look for a well balanced or front-heavy cuestick with a hard tip and a thicker shaft diameter. Most also prefer light cues, I prefer 18oz.

The most important part of the 9-ball break is controlling the cueball. Once you learn to do that well, then try to get it to fly in the air 10 feet. If you snap in 4 balls and whitey flies off the table, you lose, unless you can get it to hit your opponent square in the forehead.

Kato
07-21-2003, 06:23 AM
Yes Ken, you are a power freak. However, your break was working pretty darn well for being that beefed up.

Kato~~~put Ken's break on the radar gun at 14.5 mph. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Fred Agnir
07-21-2003, 07:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Of course the CB is in the air when it hits the rack!!! If one has the inate ability to "fly" the cueball from it's resting position at the point of impact with the tip all the way to the actual point of impact with the rack, friction from the cloth is greatly reduced. See below:

BcIp = minus Ff + SpAi =(MS) Massive Spread.
<hr /></blockquote>I think you missed a squared term somewhere.

Fred &lt;~~~ hopes the brownies taste better than the break speed.

Hopster
07-21-2003, 09:18 AM
When you're up to break, women will rush their children inside and grown men will cower in fear. The Budweiser girls will want to go home with you. Earl will seek you out for advice. You will become a "Breaking God." &lt;--Ken

Ken, what would i do without you ? I think i will send you a check for that aiming system book when i get this break down too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keith Talent
07-21-2003, 10:48 AM
Hopster,

A low-cost experiment seems to have worked out pretty well for me. I got a $29 house brand shaft from Billiards Warehouse for an older cue of mine ... fits a 5/16 14 joint. Breaks like a sledgehammer, and better than a sneaky I bought with breaking in mind.

mark wilson
07-21-2003, 11:21 AM
Hopster, The idea for most result in a "break cue" is rigid, or stiff tapering, the extra thickness does not flex as much and transfers more energy as opposed to the flex of the cue absorbing energy. The best breakers discuss the concept of breaking with a "flat ball". When the cue ball bounces upward this indicates the center of the cueball was higher at the moment of impact with the object ball which produces lift. The cueball energy is now directed slightly downward through the headball reducing the linear motion of the power transfered to the object balls. The sound and bounce of the cueball appears dynamic but the ball action and distance is reduced on the object balls. The more distance the balls travel the greater chance of finding a pocket. The flat ball is accomplished by swinging the cue extremely level, this keeps the energy horizontal. The weight differential of 18 or 19 ozs. is not so significant. Improved break stroke technique is the answer with a longer swing for power. Billiards Digest had a great article on Bustamante's break technique a couple of issues back which I thought was very explicit for learning advanced breaking techniques.

L.S. Dennis
07-21-2003, 11:36 AM
Mark, I agree with you regarding something with stiff or rigid tapering. On the other hand there may be something to what hopster claims about the lighter cue. Do you remember Sigel's break cue had a weight of 16oz if my memory serves me correctly. Of course his was not rigid, judgeing by the way he would bend his shafts on the break stroke.

Hopster
07-21-2003, 12:24 PM
Mark, I agree with you regarding something with stiff or rigid tapering. On the other hand there may be something to what hopster claims about the lighter cue. Do you remember Sigel's break cue had a weight of 16oz if my memory serves me correctly. &lt;--L.S.

He might very well be right, like i said this breaking is pretty new to me. But i do have to say the lighter cue concept seems to make sense , less weight, more velocity.
Speed kills !!! lol

JPB
07-21-2003, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> Mark, I agree with you regarding something with stiff or rigid tapering. On the other hand there may be something to what hopster claims about the lighter cue. Do you remember Sigel's break cue had a weight of 16oz if my memory serves me correctly. Of course his was not rigid, judgeing by the way he would bend his shafts on the break stroke. <hr /></blockquote>



Notice that billiards players use lighter, stiffer cues to hit bigger, heavier balls harder? Most pool cues are too flexible anyway. I'm kind of surprised players don't use billiards cues to break with actually. My pool cue is really a billiard cue that's a little heavier and has pool shafts. They are a lot stiffer than regular pool shafts tho. It breaks the balls nicely, and I only need one cue that way.

supercueman
07-21-2003, 06:43 PM
I can tell you this... I bought a Pete Ohman, Grey Ghost,Jump/Break cue and have hit with them all... It pockets 1 to 2 balls on most every break,it even breaks nicer than the sledgehammer... I like a lighter cue with a thicker shaft and a longer taper... As others in this board have said, its up to you to figure out whats best for you. I hope this helps...

Supercueman /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod
07-21-2003, 07:12 PM
Hopster,
You'll have to figure out the weight and balance that works best for you. You already know a 19oz butt heavy one peice house cue doesn't fit your rhythum. You seem to like the 18 oz. It is just a matter of fine tuning weight and balance that you can swing without having to force the weight. Just because lighter may seem better, don't go overboard. You'll be headed in the wrong direction.

Keep in mind from day to day our body chemistry changes slightly. What feels good today may not feel real good tommorrow. It may feel a little light one day and a bit heavy the next day. It's the overall feel day after day that matters.

Rod

tateuts
07-21-2003, 09:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> But i do have to say the lighter cue concept seems to make sense , less weight, more velocity.
Speed kills !!! lol <hr /></blockquote>

Hopster,

I guess I'm the other end of the spectrum. My breaking cue is a Huebler 22 ounce break cue. Remember, it's velocity and mass that equals energy. I'm a pretty big guy so the extra weight doesn't slow me down and I get a very solid hit on the cue ball.

To me, lighter break cues don't feel all that solid for some reason. I feel like the cue ball is stopping them.

I like kind of a thick handled break cue. The shaft is
pretty meaty before the taper and really stiff. I like a medium hard Moori tip on my break cue, not super hard, with a fairly flat shaped tip cut down to about 3/16". It will get plenty hard over time.

When I hit the break, I keep my arm, grip, and wrist pretty loose and smoothly accelerate it like I'm whipping out an underhanded fastball. There is definitely a "crack the whip" feel. The cue is very level, dead center on the cue ball, dead center on the 1 ball. Keep accelerating well past the cue ball - at least 2 feet past the cue ball.

If your ears ring after the break, you did good.

Chris

Hopster
07-21-2003, 10:34 PM
Keep in mind from day to day our body chemistry changes slightly. What feels good today may not feel real good tommorrow. It may feel a little light one day and a bit heavy the next day. It's the overall feel day after day that matters. &lt;--Rod

This, ive experienced. I guess its going to take a bit of experimentation to find whats really right.

Hopster
07-21-2003, 10:37 PM
If your ears ring after the break, you did good. &lt;--Chris

Finally some good advice, thanks brother. lol

Rod
07-21-2003, 10:53 PM
Yep, but it won't be to bad once your in a close range. If it's close but a little heavy just take out 1/4 oz until you hit the sweet spot. I've cut off a few threads on a weight bolt to get there. To me, if some days it feels a tiny bit heavy and some days a tad light but most days right on, then I've hit the magic number.

Rod

cycopath
07-22-2003, 10:21 AM
Our APA team captain breaks with a 25oz Schmelke. That thing is like holding a lead pipe in your hand.
I break with a 18.3oz Lucasi J/B cue with an Arnot T3 break shaft, it does pretty dang good. I asked Scott Lee to try and jump with it just because I can't jump and I wanted to know how it would perform in that regard. He said it was a fairly easy cue to jump with.

tateuts
07-22-2003, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> Our APA team captain breaks with a 25oz Schmelke. That thing is like holding a lead pipe in your hand.
<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Cycopath,

I would have to wear a hernia belt breaking with that telephone pole!

Does he break pretty good?

Chris

cycopath
07-22-2003, 02:17 PM
Yeah, he does break pretty well with it. He usually makes a ball on the break. I don't notice a lot of action on the 8ball though.