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Wally_in_Cincy
07-24-2003, 07:26 AM
Earl kills me /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

I was watching the WPC yesterday and Earl, the adamant foe of the jump cue, pulls out his "finger-extenders" to elevate his cue for a jump shot (it was an incredible shot BTW)

Does anyone find this just a bit hypocritical?

Kato
07-24-2003, 07:31 AM
Dear Mr. "Hamiltucky Hammer"

He did use his play cue right? Rationalization is a beautiful thing.

Kato

Ken
07-24-2003, 07:47 AM
I think there's no comparison. Finger extenders, just like cue extenders that slide over the cue, are simple no-tech devises that anyone could make for themselves. The jump cues rely on tips that probably violate the BCA specs (just what is a pliable material anyway?). They take much of the skill requirement out of executing the jump shot and ruin the game by making many safety shots ineffective.

Earl is right. His finger extenders show that the man is a genius and an innovator. I wonder why he stopped wearing the amber glasses and the earphones for the CD player clipped to his belt. Genius.
KenCT

Fran Crimi
07-24-2003, 08:46 AM
Wally, good question, but maybe 'hypocritical' isn't exactly the right word. But I do think it's a sign that he's acknowledging losing his battle with the jump cues.

Over the years every sport has had new equipment allowances that made life easier for the player. In tennis, there was the change from wood to fiberglass as well as larger rackets with bigger sweet-spots. In table tennis, the introduction of the sponge paddle caused an uproar with the harder-working players using dimpled paddles. It was either switch or lose. In golf, imagine a pro golfer using equipment from 10 years ago, trying to outscore someone using today's legal new equipment.

You can't have everything you want all of the time. Sometimes you're in the minority and you have to accept the majority rule, even though you disagree. The rest of the world doesn't have a problem with jump cues. They're here to stay.

We all understand how Earl feels about jump cues and we all appreciate his purist attitude towards using your own cue to jump. But it's over. He lost, and if he doesn't make the change, it will hurt him in the long-run. I think the finger extenders are his way of making an adjustment without feeling he's compromising his principles.

Fran

Qtec
07-24-2003, 08:55 AM
This topic was discussed on the 'Its Earl again' thread.

Its not clever , its pathetic.

If you cant make the shot , you cant make the shot .


Do you think Earl felt bad when the other player missed because Earl made a comment about him using a jump stick?

How many matches has he won because of his sharking?

He is not the only pool player , but i'm sure he thinks he is.

Q

Ken
07-24-2003, 09:10 AM
Qtec
Earl can make the shot without the finger extenders. He is just showing how pathetic it is to rely on a gimmick cue to beat him by coming up with a gimmick of his own made of a bit of tape and plastic tubes.

It's pathetic that these supposed "pros" have to resort to equipment that is probably illegal because they don't have certain skills.

They can spend thousands developing the best gimmick jump cue possible with an illegal tip but Earl doesn't have any need for one. Give the guy a little credit.

Earl's "sharking" as you call it is generally whining while losing a match. So I would say he has won very few matches by sharking. He has, however, whined about quite a few loses.
KenCT

Qtec
07-24-2003, 09:21 AM
I see your point Ken. You are saying he was making a protest . I must confess I dont know the full story about this equipment issue , but it looks as if they should sort it out quickly. Who knows what Earl will come up with next. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I guess you need to have a Pro Governing Orginisation first.Does anybody profess to be THE organisation in charge of rules ?

Q

Hopster
07-24-2003, 09:59 AM
I was watching the WPC yesterday and Earl, the adamant foe of the jump cue, pulls out his "finger-extenders" to elevate his cue for a jump shot (it was an incredible shot BTW) <--Wally

Yeah it was a good shot. I was watching it at work with my buddy and i said to him : Who the hell does he think he is Fu Manchu ??
Sure its hypocritical. He gets on everyone elses case for gadgets and he pulls em out now ? Just cause it aint a jump cue its all right ? lol

Ken
07-24-2003, 10:11 AM
You can't use gimmick golf clubs, you can't use gimmick golf balls and you can't put cork in your baseball bat.

The problem here is that we have a governing body that consists of the people that sell these gimmicks. That's why we have them. I would even accept the UPA making the rules before I would let the jump cue sellers make the rules. I repeat: what is a "pliable material"? Does that mean tips can be made out of anything except metal and glass? But glass is a liquid so I suppose it is pliable.

The rule should say the tip must be "fibrous and pliable" not "fibrous or pliable". But then the BCA would sell less jump cues because they wouldn't work that much better than playing cues.

Fran Crimi
07-24-2003, 10:20 AM
Ken, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you contradicting yourself? First you wrote that there's no comparison between finger extenders and jump cues because it's the jump cue that's illegal, and that he's a genius and an innovator for for his invention, and then you wrote that Earl is using them to prove a point regarding 'gimick equipment' in protest of the jump cue and he doesn't need them at all.

Did Earl tell you that personally? So he's not using the finger extenders at all as an aid? It's all just to prove a point? Are you absolutely sure about that?

Fran

pooltchr
07-24-2003, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> But then the BCA would sell less jump cues <hr /></blockquote>

Now I'm lost. When did the BCA start selling cues? What kind do they sell? Where do they sell them?

rackmup
07-24-2003, 10:41 AM
I get a kick out of those who think a jump cue automatically enables anyone to hop over a ball. It's simply not true nor that easy.

Using a JC properly and effectively takes practice and patience, just as all other aspects of a person's game requires.

New technology will continue to prevail. You can't stop it, I can't stop it and Mr. Strickland can't stop it. Sure...we can all choose to use or not use a particular piece of equipment just as Mr. Strickland has. And, at the same time, while everyone around you will be making strides in their game and adding money to their pockets, you can load your Dufferin 2-piece cue into your zippered soft case and climb into your Model-T and sulk all the way home.

Regards,

Ken (took nearly 18 years to figure out how to use my Meucci JC)

Ken
07-24-2003, 10:55 AM
Sorry Fran I forgot to preface statements that are baseless opinions with "in my opinion". I will admit that most of what I say is based on fact but I am only speculating when it comes to Earl's extenders.

I will opine that I believe that Earl could make the shot where he used the extenders without benefit of those extenders. I think he is just making asses out of those who need those illegal (in my opinion) crutches. Earl has not informed me about whether he feels that he needs the extenders. He has told me that the jump cues were invented because nobody could jump like he could. He said they need the jump cue in order to compete with him.

In my opinion there's no comparison between a high-tech jump cue with a tip that should be illegal and a crude assembly of plastic cylinders covered with tape that anyone could make in 5 minutes out of materials commonly found around the house.

I know there's a rule about keeping a foot on the floor so it would be illegal to play while wearing stilts but I don't believe there is a rule about keeping a finger on the table so those "finger stilts" should be legal (in my opinion).
KenCT

Fran Crimi
07-24-2003, 11:04 AM
Ken, I can sympathize with Earl's frustration about having a skill above the others that has suddenly become equalized and even surpassed due not to skill, but equipment.

He's angry, but he really needs to let it go. He's not the only player something like that has happened to. Do you think players like Helena Thornfeldt or Jennifer Chen with their big breaks were happy with the mandantory soft break with the Sardo Rack? Talk about losing your edge! Yet, not once did I ever hear any of them turn to Allison during a match and say, "Why don't you break like a real pool player?"

None of us knew how many years we were going to be soft-breaking on tour. Yet the big breakers bit the bullet and dealt with the fact that there was a change and they had to accept it.

It's about maturity, Ken. At a certain point, you have to accept the inevitible, take your losses and move on.

Fran

SpiderMan
07-24-2003, 11:09 AM
Maybe he's promoting finger extensions as a product? Money does strange things to our convictions.

SpiderMan

SPetty
07-24-2003, 11:14 AM
Can you imagine the bedlam that would ensue if you tried to use these finger extenders during your weekly league match? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ken
07-24-2003, 11:22 AM
I agree that this has been eating at Earl for too long. If the tournament permits it he should just accept it. Any comments he makes during the match should be vigorously protested.

I'm not sure I accept his claim that he is so much better than everyone else at jumping with a playing cue. People were jumping balls long before he was born. Mike Massey is pretty good at it.
KenCT

rackmup
07-24-2003, 11:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> In my opinion there's no comparison between a high-tech jump cue with a tip that should be illegal and a crude assembly of plastic cylinders covered with tape that anyone could make in 5 minutes out of materials commonly found around the house.<hr /></blockquote>

Just so I understand this: You believe that "Finger extenders" are okay but a jump cue isn't? If that's the case, why wouldn't stilts be legal? What if I had a prosthetic leg? My "foot" wouldn't be on the floor...my "stilt" would be though.

Using something e.g., "finger extenders" for the "digitally challenged" would be NO different than utilizing a JC for the "full-length cue jumper challenged."

Come on now...tell me you're still using a cue as they were originally built at the beginnings of the game.

Technology baby...you can't stop it! And, while technology can make some tasks easier e.g., square grooves instead a "V" grooves in golf clubs (more spin), steel, titanium and fiberglass composite golf club shafts (more power/distance), phenolic pool balls instead of "mud" balls (better control, durability), chalk, laminated tips, etc., it doesn't mean you are now an "overnight success" just because you spent gobs of cash on the latest advancements.

Regards,

Ken (sorry...I'm a JC fan)

Wally_in_Cincy
07-24-2003, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Can you imagine the bedlam that would ensue if you tried to use these finger extenders during your weekly league match? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Spetty,

90% of the people in the Hamiltucky APA league don't know anything about about equipment except that the Meucci is the best cue ever /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

There are many, many men who refuse to use the "sissy stick" under any circumstances. But if they saw the "finger-extenders" they might say "Hey dude, 'em are cool. I reckon I orta get me some". Hard telling with these folks /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran Crimi
07-24-2003, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr>
I'm not sure I accept his claim that he is so much better than everyone else at jumping with a playing cue. People were jumping balls long before he was born. Mike Massey is pretty good at it.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

Interesting point. I guess what really matters is what Earl believes to be true and that's the part he has to get past.

You know, I was thinking, if he ever got a jump cue in his hands, with all his skill and creativity, I bet he'd be doing things with it that other players haven't even thought of yet. I think it would be a scream if he pulled out a jump cue in a tournament one day and made it dance. The crowd would go wild.

Fran

Rosewater
07-24-2003, 05:10 PM
I was IN Cardiff watching Earl, and I think he should be allowed to do whatever he wants to do, because he brings so much to the game. Without Earl, there wouldn't be 127 players going after Earl.

rackmup
07-24-2003, 05:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran:</font><hr> I think it would be a scream if he pulled out a jump cue in a tournament one day and made it dance. <hr /></blockquote>

...And he could! It would also allow some of his detractors to move onto something else about his demeanor to gripe about.

Regards,

Ken (like Earl but not as much as McCready and likes Fran but not as much as I like the redhead at Breaker's Billiards.)

rackmup
07-24-2003, 05:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rosewater:</font><hr> Without Earl, there wouldn't be 127 players going after Earl.
<hr /></blockquote>

That's a math question, isn't it?

Regards,

Ken (hates these tricky math questions...)

Ross
07-24-2003, 05:21 PM
I agree that Earl is a bit hypocritical about "extra" equipment whether it be jump cues or finger extensions. But he is hypocritical about all kinds of issues around pool.

And I don't think he is a bad guy - I actually kind of like the feller.

It just seems that Earl has an amazingly powerful need to feel like he is a lone battler fighting terrific odds that are always stacked against him. I'm sure this constant "lonely battle against the hordes" life script serves some purpose for him.

Maybe it adds fuel to his competitive fire, or maybe it is a way to distract himself from whatever the real issues are in his life. Who knows? But it always seems to be just below the surface, and it only take as tiny scratch to bring it out.

Sometimes he really has to stretch to create the "enemy." At one of the matches at the Open last year the crowd was pretty pro-Earl and some spectators were very vocal showing their support of his play. I don't think he ever acknowledged them or even seemed to notice them. But it only took a couple of smaller cheers for a nice shot by his opponent for Earl to start his glaring-and-jabbering-at-the-audience routine. It was remarkable to see how quickly he was able to create (in his own mind) a battle for survival against the "anti-Earl" crowd.

So I don't really think it is the legality of the jump cue that's bugging him, or people cheering for his opponent, or the soft break that Corey used against him, or whatever it is that he is complaining about this week. And he doesn't adapt, because that would take away the struggle. And if all of these things disappeared tomorrow, Earl would find other slings and arrows to be suffered and overcome. It seems this is his life script, at least at the pool table.

Makes for an interesting character and some interesting matches. But his antics while his opponents are shooting, whether deliberate sharking or not, has to bother a number of them and affect their play. So I would not give him high marks for fairness, or for objectivity in his views of the pool world. But I do respect his game and his desire to win. Not that he cares, or should care, what I think.

Just my opinion - of course. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qtec
07-24-2003, 06:41 PM
Spiderman , I'm sorry to say it but the American way is based on profit . If you can make a buck on it , do it .To hell with the consequences or any body else.

Convictions , dont make me laugh.!

Dont you think its about time that you take that derogatory remark off your post about the French. You are an intelligent man , but obviously you dont know a lot about history . If it wasnt for the French and the Spanish , America would be still a British colony.

I'm sorry to hit on you , its just the mood I'm in.


Freedom Fries . Puke , Puke , Puke . How is it possible that the strongest nation in the world is the most imature.?

Maybe because they only exist a few hundred years ?



Q

rackmup
07-24-2003, 07:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I'm sorry to hit on you , its just the mood I'm in.
<hr /></blockquote>

It's not Marty or me or eg8r that you ever "hit on." It's our country that you constantly bash.

I wish we had just one proud American Marine, who happened to be a pool player, who happened to be a CCB'er, who happened to be playing pool in the Hague with you. You notice his CCB key chain and introduce yourself.

And, like a good American Marine would do, he too would introduce himself to you.

And give you a ride to the dentist too.

Let it go son...it just get a little old.

Semper Fi,

Ken (not a Marine but would give Qtec the same ride.)

Qtec
07-24-2003, 07:31 PM
I'm trying R. I just cant seem to let things go.

I have this compulsion to answer when i see bs .....


Q


My excuses, everybody. Sorry Spidey .

thirtyeyes
07-24-2003, 07:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Dont you think its about time that you take that derogatory remark off your post about the French. You are an intelligent man , but obviously you dont know a lot about history . If it wasnt for the French and the Spanish , America would be still a British colony. Q <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, France only got involved when it was clear that the English colonies were going to obtain their independence. France was afraid of jeopardizing their interests in the new world and waited until a clear cut winner had evolved.

Here's an oldie but a goodie:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokefrenchmilitaryhistory.htm

Qtec
07-24-2003, 07:56 PM
Actually, the French and Spanish armed the 'Americans 'to stop the British from winning.


Q

Qtec
07-24-2003, 08:03 PM
Fran, i'm pretty sure he played the shot with a jump cue.

Q

Keith Talent
07-24-2003, 08:03 PM
Dutch (duch), adj.

10. in Dutch, in trouble or disfavor (with someone): in Dutch with the teacher for disturbing the class.

We're going to count to 10, Mr. Q ...

Qtec
07-24-2003, 08:07 PM
Exactly.


Q

Well said.

thirtyeyes
07-24-2003, 08:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Actually, the French and Spanish armed the 'Americans 'to stop the British from winning.


Q <hr /></blockquote>
Nope. Not to any significant extent until America had the red coats running. France only contributed some military advisers and a little antiquated equipment to go along with their antiquated military tactics. It was the new American skirmishers and Yankee guts that turned the tide.

rackmup
07-24-2003, 08:22 PM
Leave Qtec alone. You would be bitter too if you lived in the land of uncomfortable wooden shoes, warm beer, windmills breaking down all of the time and those women with bad teeth...let's not forget about the bad teeth.

Then there are the drug problems, prostitution and teenage pregnancies.

Basically, Qtec is surrounded by a bunch of ill-grilled meth freak women, all hanging out at the base of those blasted noisy energy-churners, waiting to pick up a "John" so they can make a buck to get some birth control pills and some toothpaste, all while their swollen size 7 feet are jammed into a pair of size 6 hollowed out chunks of birch and the only beverage available on a hot day is an even hotter beer.

Yeah...who would want to live in the "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave" when you can have all of that?

Regards,

Ken (just gettin' my $.02 in)

Qtec
07-24-2003, 08:28 PM
Its the other way around.

Q

Qtec
07-24-2003, 08:32 PM
Do you want me to stand in the corner? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q

Q.. being persecuted for speaking the truth...?

ted harris
07-24-2003, 10:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>If it wasnt for the French and the Spanish , America would be still a British colony.<hr /></blockquote>
Seems like the French are famous for showing up at the last minute and taking all the credit. I would like to add that we more than paid them back for that! In any event, we would have liberated ourselves with or without the help of ANYONE! Same goes today! Whereas, the French, on the other hand, would have been part of Germany until the Russians reached the Atlantic if it wasn't for us! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The truth hurts, but I can live with it. How 'bout you?

Keith Talent
07-24-2003, 11:01 PM
Not to mention it's one of the Low Countries ... a Nether region, even. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DoomCue
07-25-2003, 07:11 AM
Just watched it, and no, he didn't use a jump cue. I don't even think Earl owns one. He made the jump, but didn't get out.

The funny thing to me is that Earl has complained about the crowd being so anti-Earl. When I watched the match, I was expecting to hear some boos and see some vintage Earl clashing with the crowd. However, the crowd was well-behaved. The crowd clapped after every every good shot and every pocketed 9 ball, and Earl acknowledged the crowd with a little hand wave after each instance. Didn't seem anti-Earl at all to me. I think he just looks for something to complain about.

djb

Fred Agnir
07-25-2003, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> . How is it possible that the strongest nation in the world is the most imature.?


Maybe because they only exist a few hundred years ?

<hr /></blockquote>Out of respect for my friend from the Netherlands, I shan't insult your country as you constantly do mine. Instead, I'll just give you the one finger salute, for having the audacity to tell us you actually know anything. I'm glad you believe everything in the Weekly World Yellow Rag.

Fred &lt;~~~ in the words of Arnold, f*ck you a$$hole

Fred Agnir
07-25-2003, 07:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> I get a kick out of those who think a jump cue automatically enables anyone to hop over a ball. It's simply not true nor that easy.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, I don't know. I think the jump cue automatically enables many people who coudn't jump over a ball before. It's in the stick's design. Sure, it still takes skill to master it, but it still does the job of jumping easier than a regular stick. If that wasn't true, they'd never get buyers.

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
07-25-2003, 07:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> I get a kick out of those who think a jump cue automatically enables anyone to hop over a ball. It's simply not true nor that easy.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, I don't know. I think the jump cue automatically enables many people who coudn't jump over a ball before. It's in the stick's design. Sure, it still takes skill to master it, but it still does the job of jumping easier than a regular stick. If that wasn't true, they'd never get buyers.

Fred

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree.

I was going to respond to that yesterday but I forgot. I've tried many times to jump balls with my playing cue with limited success. One night Tom in Cincy let me try his Stealth jumper and I was jumping a full ball within 2 minutes. I rarely play 9-ball so I have not practiced jumping much at all.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-25-2003, 08:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>
....It just seems that Earl has an amazingly powerful need to feel like he is a lone battler fighting terrific odds that are always stacked against him......<hr /></blockquote>

Ross,

That's a great analysis. Earl, even when he has no enemy, has to create a straw man type of enemy to fire him up. He was probably hoping folks would get on him about his finger extenders just so he would have a reason to say "Everybody's against me. They allow jump cues, why not these"