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sprinter
07-24-2003, 08:28 AM
What is meant when you get spotted the 6, 7, 8 etc. in 9-ball? Just curious. I hear this alot and probubly should know, but i don't so i'll ask.
Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

CrispyFish
07-24-2003, 08:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sprinter:</font><hr> What is meant when you get spotted the 6, 7, 8 etc. in 9-ball? Just curious. I hear this alot and probubly should know, but i don't so i'll ask.
Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Getting "spotted" a ball means you win if you make that ball. Often it has to be a called shot -- make sure you know which rules you're playing by *before* you take the shot!

sprinter
07-24-2003, 08:34 AM
Even on the break and in a legal combination?

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 08:38 AM
If you break and your spotted ball goes in, before you start to shoot, you MUST take that ball out and put it on the spot. If you forget to take it out, you cannot do so afterwards. Your opponent may or may not let you know that you have to take your ball out--it could be to his advantage so it's best that you pay attention.

When you're being spotted say the 7 ball, you have to call the pocket in which you wish to shoot the 7. You can also win by shooting in a combo but you have to call the shot. Otherwise, you've got to keep shooting 'til the 9.

bolo
07-24-2003, 08:48 AM
Why would you have to call it? Spotted balls are always wild unless otherwise decided.

Ken
07-24-2003, 08:53 AM
Ths spotted ball can be "wild" or "called". If it's wild and you make it legally you win. No need to call it. Make sure if that applies to the break as well. These conditions are subject to negotiation if you are gambling.

In tournament play around here the ball has to be called. If your opponent makes it on the break I think it usually gets spotted after his inning. If you forget and start shooting you lose it (been there, done that).

There's no reason that these rules have to be consistent so you need to ask certain questions before starting to play.
KenCT

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 09:14 AM
Bolo, you should allow for the fact that the pool world everywhere is not exactly like yours.

I've been around the game for around 10 years in the New York area, and have never heard the term "tush hog". Neither had anyone I've asked in the last two days.

Also, in the northeast, spotted balls are NEVER wild unless previously determined so. I would guess that in less than 5% of the sets I have ever seen has a wild ball been involved.

Did you know that in some parts of California (not exactly backwoods USA), they don't play with a 3-foul rule??!

Anyway, I just think you should write with a little more tolerance, and allow for regional differences. They do exist.

- Steve

bolo
07-24-2003, 09:51 AM
9 ball is not a call shot game. When someone gets the 8, it is wild unless, it said to be the called 8. My response was to the fact that she laid out very specific rules, which were not correct. Regardless what you may say, wild would be the understood game when someone asks for the 8.

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> 9 ball is not a call shot game. When someone gets the 8, it is wild unless, it said to be the called 8. <hr /></blockquote>Maybe you didn't read his post?

Regional differences. Spotting/handicapping balls isn't in the rulebook, so applying normal rules to handicapped games doesn't really make sense.

In case you were looking for input (which it doesn't read like you are), wild 8, called 8, break included, not included, these are all spot rules that really have to be ironed out before the game starts.

Fred

CrispyFish
07-24-2003, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> 9 ball is not a call shot game. When someone gets the 8, it is wild unless, it said to be the called 8. <hr /></blockquote>
While I don't doubt that spotted balls are wild where you play, in my personal experience spotted balls have always been called balls.

But hey, that's one of the beauties of pool -- there's no limit to the variation in rules! Why, just the other day, I heard a guy explaning the "3-rails" rule to his girlfriend, whereby if you don't hit a ball, the shot is still legal as long as you hit 3 rails!

bolo
07-24-2003, 09:59 AM
That was the point of my original post to the lady. She laid out iron clad rules as if there was no other way to play. I suggest you make the same post to 9 ball girl.

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 10:04 AM
I hear you Bolo. But the tournaments here in NY, and these are major tournaments, you HAVE to call your spotted ball. The only ball that's wild is the 9 ball. However, I have seen instances where the spotted ball is wild and those were in mini tournaments like someone else posted here where the "rules" were a little off of what the norm would be. Now if you're gambling then that's a different story and it's something that should be resolved before playing. And even still, in gambling situations, the person who's being spotted has to call the pocket.

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 10:06 AM
Well, you're still not getting this: it depends on the area. Whether it makes sense to you or not. That's just not how it's done in most of the northeast.

I'm not trying to be a pain about this, because I enjoy your posts, Bolo. I'm just telling you - it depends on the area.

- Steve

bolo
07-24-2003, 10:14 AM
Quote
"And even still, in gambling situations, the person who's being spotted has to call the pocket."

9 bal girl, after all you said you then went back to saying there is an "always" way you have to play. If I tell someone they are getting the 8, if when we get to the table i add,"Oh by the way you have to call it" the game would stop right there till we decided how to play. But my first offer of the 8, is understood to be wild anywhere you play.

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 10:21 AM
Bolo wrote:

<font color="blue">"But my first offer of the 8, is understood to be wild anywhere you play."</font color>

Holy s***! I can't believe this. Bolo, IF YOU COME TO NY, ASK FOR THE 8, CRAP IT IN AND EXPECT THE WIN, YOU WILL BE LAUGHED AT.

I don't know any other way to put this.

- Steve

Ken
07-24-2003, 10:26 AM
I have to agree that anyone offering the 8 had better say if it is to be called otherwise it will be understood to be wild. The person accepting the spot can take it to be as favorable to him as possible. I would assume it's wild by default unless otherwise stated.
KenCT

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 10:27 AM
Well, here in the NorthEast you do. That's been my experience in the tournaments that I've played in, spectated, or help run. When you go into a tourney and you're being spotted, you have to call your spotted ball. You have to do it for those not so obvious shots and for those obvious ones as well. Sometimes you might play one of those hard a$$ players that are giving the spot that want to see you motion towards the pocket you're going to pocket your ball, whether it's obvious or not. I've seen plenty of arguments 'cause of this.

If the balls are all wild then I don't see a reason why the better player should have to give a spot. Everyone should then just play it out to the 9 ball. No?

CrispyFish
07-24-2003, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> I have to agree that anyone offering the 8 had better say if it is to be called otherwise it will be understood to be wild. The person accepting the spot can take it to be as favorable to him as possible. I would assume it's wild by default unless otherwise stated.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>
Actually, I think it's even better to say that NO RULES SHOULD *EVER* BE ASSUMED -- *especially* when there's money on the line!

Like I said, there are so many different rules out there, you'd better be damn sure which ones you're playing by, before you even take your first stroke!

&lt;~~~ Lost an 8-ball tourney once because of a house "clean 8-ball" rule...

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> I have to agree that anyone offering the 8 had better say if it is to be called otherwise it will be understood to be wild. The person accepting the spot can take it to be as favorable to him as possible. I would assume it's wild by default unless otherwise stated.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

Here's the way I look at it. What's the first spot (the least spot). What's the next. Then the next?

Seems to me that the called 8 would be first order spot.
Then maybe the wild 8
Then maybe the break.
Then the break and the called 8.

And so on until the break and the last 8. Oh, heck, last 9. The Louie Roberts spot. If I miss, you win.

Anyway, I would think that without any further discussion, giving the 8-ball would be the least spot on the table, which would mean called 8-ball, no go on the break. Anything else would be an "additional spot" and needs further begging.

That's just the way I'm thinking it.

Fred &lt;~~~ can't give the Louie Roberts spot

KBuck
07-24-2003, 10:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If the balls are all wild then I don't see a reason why the better player should have to give a spot. Everyone should then just play it out to the 9 ball. No?

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't understand this. A wild ball would be a bigger handicap than a ball that had to be called, wouldn't it?

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Seems to me that the called 8 would be first order spot.
Then maybe the wild 8
Then maybe the break.
Then the break and the called 8.<hr /></blockquote>

Fred, lists of these kinds must be qualified with the types of players involved.

Two pros - the break is WAY bigger than the 8 (called or otherwise).

Two Ds - the break is almost totally meaningless, while the 8 is HUGE.

- Steve

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>
Two Ds - the break is almost totally meaningless, while the 8 is HUGE.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>Hey, man. Don't give that info away. ;-)

Fred &lt;~~~ maybe can give a D the breaks

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 10:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote KBuck:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If the balls are all wild then I don't see a reason why the better player should have to give a spot. Everyone should then just play it out to the 9 ball. No?

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't understand this. A wild ball would be a bigger handicap than a ball that had to be called, wouldn't it?
<hr /></blockquote>I don't think so, no. I don't think balls should be "slopped" in. It happens to all of us when we play 9 ball and we get that extra roll and the ball goes into the pocket that it wasn't intended to--sometimes to our advantage. But then you have to get back to work again. Have you ever played against someone who just happens to get "lucky" and the balls find their ways into the pockets? I know, that's 9 ball for you, but when it comes to that money ball, you best believe it has to be called. I don't know of any handicapper that would accept the handicappee to luck in their money ball during a tourney or otherwise.

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 10:57 AM
Fred, off-topic, re: the quote after your signature. I was playing in an online poker tournament last night, and across the table from me was a guy calling himself "Will Munney". I quoted that exact line when I told him I thought Unforgiven was a great movie. Bizarre.

sprinter
07-24-2003, 11:02 AM
Alright i think i'm understanding but say i spot someone the 6, I'm shooting and run the balls through the 6 but miss the 7 would my opponent have to finish the game to the 9 then or just make the 7 or would the game be over my opponent being the winner. "Normally speaking, I'm sure that it can be played any way you want but i ask for in general cases."

KBuck
07-24-2003, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote KBuck:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If the balls are all wild then I don't see a reason why the better player should have to give a spot. Everyone should then just play it out to the 9 ball. No?

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't understand this. A wild ball would be a bigger handicap than a ball that had to be called, wouldn't it?
<hr /></blockquote>I don't think so, no. I don't think balls should be "slopped" in. It happens to all of us when we play 9 ball and we get that extra roll and the ball goes into the pocket that it wasn't intended to--sometimes to our advantage. But then you have to get back to work again. Have you ever played against someone who just happens to get "lucky" and the balls find their ways into the pockets? I know, that's 9 ball for you, but when it comes to that money ball, you best believe it has to be called. I don't know of any handicapper that would accept the handicappee to luck in their money ball during a tourney or otherwise. <hr /></blockquote>

You might want to rethink your answer because it sounds like you do think allowing your opponent to slop in the money ball is a bigger handicap. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ken
07-24-2003, 11:08 AM
You can legally make the 6 at any time (after the break) and his spot is gone. Look for an early combo to eliminate the 6 if you can't run out. The game continues without the spot. If he makes the 6 illegally it stays down. If you make it illegally it should be spotted.
KenCT

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sprinter:</font><hr> Alright i think i'm understanding but say i spot someone the 6, I'm shooting and run the balls through the 6 but miss the 7 would my opponent have to finish the game to the 9 then or just make the 7 or would the game be over my opponent being the winner. "Normally speaking, I'm sure that it can be played any way you want but i ask for in general cases." <hr /></blockquote>

I think that Bluewolf asked this same question.

If you're "getting the 6" you only get the 6 as a winning ball (other than the 9-ball).

If you're getting the "6-out," then you get the 6,7,8, and 9 as winning balls on a legal shot.


If you're getting the "last three," then you get... any of the last three balls on the tables including the 9-ball as winning balls.

Anyone else *not* agree with these?

Fred

Ken
07-24-2003, 11:41 AM
Fred,
I'm not clear on the "last three". I thought it meant if you make the 6 and the 7, 8 and 9 are left you don't have to make any more balls and you have won. You seem to be saying I have to make one of those last three. This is one I have never understood.

This came up once when I was getting the last ball. My opponent missed the nine and I have wondered if I had to make the nine or if I won because I didn't have to make the last ball. I think it was an automatic win.

The only time I've seen "last three" played was between Howard Vickery and J. McVinney and it seems McVinney only had to run through to the 6 but I found out what the spot was afterwards and wasn't paying that much attention.
KenCT

Sid_Vicious
07-24-2003, 11:44 AM
"9 ball is not a call shot game. When someone gets the 8, it is wild unless, it said to be the called 8"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
If it's a regional thing, then Texas 9-ball is exactly like bolo stated, wild as hell unless expressly stated as a called ball...sid

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 11:49 AM
Ken, no, the last three means you have to make any of the last three balls on the table (as long as you hit the numerically-lowest first).

But there is never a time when you will win through "attrition" with that spot, by your opponent simply missing a ball. You will always have to pocket a ball to win a game.

- Steve

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 11:50 AM
Except in most parts of the northeast, Sid.

- Steve

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 11:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> Fred,
I'm not clear on the "last three". I thought it meant if you make the 6 and the 7, 8 and 9 are left you don't have to make any more balls and you have won. You seem to be saying I have to make one of those last three. This is one I have never understood.<hr /></blockquote> The only way I've ever heard it is that the guy who is getting the spot (last three in this case) has to make one of the last three balls left on the table. So, if the 5, 8, and 9 ball are the last three balls left, he has to make one of them on a legal shot to win.

It's possible that you were watching a "last three" game, but for some reason, the 7 or 8 was already down (every time?)giving the illusion that the guy was getting the 6-ball.

Fred

stevelomako
07-24-2003, 11:52 AM
If I go to N.Y. and GIVE-UP the 8 and they crap it in, they've got the win!

Either way, its not going to be long before you figure out which way you're playing.

Steve

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 12:05 PM
I guess we should all just agree that it's a regional thing. There's no way to refute it; spot balls are dealt with differently according to your area.

I have seen a few sets end after the first game that this comes up. And without exception, they involved players from two different areas.

I guess I've learned (from this thread) to make the spot clear when playing with someone from another part of the country.

- Steve

bolo
07-24-2003, 12:09 PM
Called 8 would not be first. The last two or a safe 8 would be less.

Hopster
07-24-2003, 12:12 PM
Im playing in tourney tonight and they do that crap. Wild 7 and call 8, plus they give games on the wire. Last week was my first time there and im giving weight to people who are clearly better than me and i wound up beating 2 of them. Why these spots ?? If the Yankees are playing the Tigers, they dont say " Well , Detroit sucks so lets spot them 6 runs before the game starts ".
I know it supposed to make things even like the spread in a football game buts its just annoying as all hell. This girl i played got a game on the wire and the eight and she could play. Irritating at least to me.

Hopster &lt;-- Going to get good at one pocket and tell all nine ball players to go to hell.

Perk
07-24-2003, 12:16 PM
At first, when I started reading this, I thought that this was an irrelevant arguement waiting to happen. It was said best, that regions/areas are played differently. I enjoyed reading this due to other areas perceptions on what is a said given or not.

&lt;--around here, when a ball spot is mentioned, "BOTH" players will make it a point to let the rules known whether called/wild/if the ball counts on break and so on.

But I think Bolo made a good point early on in this thread. If everyone is woofing/bullshittin about a game, and Player A says you got the 8, and player B says bet...then if they got to a table, and player A says "called", I think it would be a renegotiation/confirmation on the exact way it will be played.

&lt;--If I am getting a spot, I will make sure I get the appropriate one. I am still looking for someone to GIVE Last 3, and the snaps! Maybe if they are feeling generous I can get the orange crush while I am at it... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Called 8 would not be first. The last two or a safe 8 would be less. <hr /></blockquote>Sure. I'll agree with that. Does that lead us to a direction of why "called 8" would be understood as the primary meaning for "giving the 8" (because it's the lesser spot) or not?

Fred

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Called 8 would not be first. The last two or a safe 8 would be less. <hr /></blockquote>

Bolo, what is a "safe 8"?

- Steve &lt;--- starting to think the northeast is on another planet /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Fred Agnir
07-24-2003, 12:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr>
I know it supposed to make things even like the spread in a football game buts its just annoying as all hell. This girl i played got a game on the wire and the eight and she could play. Irritating at least to me.<hr /></blockquote> And this goes back to the "stupidest 9-ball tournament" thread. There's a local one here that if I play, I'll have the pleasure to lose to a guy who I have to give the 6-out (5-out once) and a game on the wire in a short race to 5. And it's at his home pool hall.

Fred &lt;~~~ goes without saying, I had no chance.

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Called 8 would not be first. The last two or a safe 8 would be less. <hr /></blockquote>

Bolo, what is a "safe 8"?

- Steve &lt;--- starting to think the northeast is on another planet /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>

More like we're in a different galaxy! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Rod
07-24-2003, 12:52 PM
Here's one of the stupidest tournaments I ever took part in. It's been a while but a 4 needs to win 3 games to my 10. Here is the kicker, when the 4 is shooting the 9 they only have to hit it to a rail. Not a pocket mind you, just a rail.

Rod

Ken
07-24-2003, 12:56 PM
Steve.
I can understand that I might be required to make a ball in order to win. So I guess the confusion is that I was being spotted what was called "the last ball". The only way that makes sense is if I don't have to make the 9. Or if I have to make the ball before the 9 in order to win with the spot. If he gives me the table with that ball already down then I guess the spot is gone and I have to make the 9 (I didn't).

If "last ball" means I have to run only through the 8 then I would think "last three" would mean I have to run only through the 6.

You seem to be saying that last three means those are all money balls but nobody knows which ones they will ultimately be. So he's giving me the 9 as a money ball? It's always one of the last three and it's always a money ball, so big deal.

I guess I'll take the "orange crush" instead. No confusion there and I need it.
KenCT

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 12:57 PM
Rod, please tell me you are kidding. If you aren't, please tell me that someone, somewhere, sometime, managed to dog this. That will make my day...

Also, I assume that was only when the 9 was the lone ball on the table, correct? They couldn't blast a combo at it just to make it hit a rail in the middle of a game?

- Steve &lt;--- Wendy, our galaxy is getting farther and farther away... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
07-24-2003, 12:57 PM
Steve,
If your getting the 8 safe and make it at any time during the game, it just means you can't lose. If you make the 9 of course you win. If you opponent makes the 9 its a push.
Generally it is a wild ball unless stated up front otherwise. Not much of a spot, eh?

Rod

KBuck
07-24-2003, 12:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> when the 4 is shooting the 9 they only have to hit it to a rail. Not a pocket mind you, just a rail.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Can the four win by comboing the nine to the rail? lol

cheesemouse
07-24-2003, 01:01 PM
Steve,

The safe 8 is: If I make the 8 then I can't lose the game, I still have to make the 9 to win but if my opponent makes the 9 after I have made the 8 it is a push....I believe this is the least amount of weight that can be given...maybe this is a planatary thingee...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 01:02 PM
Ken, yep, the 9 is counted as a ball when you say "last two", "last three", etc. You make a good point as to why it shouldn't be, but for whatever reason that's the accepted way to discuss a spot like that.

Believe me, once you start getting to the last three, it's a fairly significant spot. Just a bit under the 7-out.

- Steve

9 Ball Girl
07-24-2003, 01:04 PM
So Cheese, does the safe 8 push conflict with say a push you call after the break?

Wendy&lt;---is boldly going where no poolplayer has gone before...

Rod
07-24-2003, 01:04 PM
Yes it has to be the last ball. And yes someone dogged the shot. LOL It was frozen to a rail and a double kiss, no contact with another rail. I've also seen a miscue. A 4 is a beginner.

Rod

bolo
07-24-2003, 01:08 PM
This is common stuff if you gamble, It needs to be understood. Some spots are not near what they may sound like. You can be tricked pretty quick if you don't understand what you are doing. For every local tournament game there are thousands of games played between players and those are the rules most universally understood. You don't need an attorney and a contract to match up, but you do need to know what all this means and it's real value.

cheesemouse
07-24-2003, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> So Cheese, does the safe 8 push conflict with say a push you call after the break?

Wendy&lt;---is boldly going where no poolplayer has gone before... <hr /></blockquote>

Wendy,
I mean 'push' as in tie. If you were getting the safe 8 and made it but your opponent makes the 9 you don't lose but rather tie the game...your safe...Hehehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

this post is like the tower of Babal...LOL.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve Lipsky
07-24-2003, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the explanation of the safe 8, guys.

I gotta admit... I kinda like it. It makes sense, and isn't exceedingly "gimmicky". I wonder why it never caught on over here.

- Steve

MarkUrsel
07-24-2003, 02:27 PM
I would say that if you are getting spotted balls that you should professional medical treatment as soon as possible.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bolo
07-24-2003, 03:55 PM
What it comes down to is, If you give someone a spot you don't have to discuses every rule governing the game most are understood general rules. I don't have to make sure he knows if the cueball leaves the table it is a foul. I assume we both have some knowledge of how the game is played. You don't call shots in 9 ball, so why would you because you are getting the eight all of a sudden have to call it? It is just an additional money ball you can win on, no other part of the game changes. If I play someone 9 ball, we don't have to discuss whether we are playing loser breaks or rotating the break or breaker racks his own balls. It would be ridicules.

stick8
07-25-2003, 09:40 AM
you can play spoted balls eather way,wild or called when i give acalled 8 the player must call the pocket they a going to play it in .wild 8 no call if it goes on good hit he wins, alsoif i make his spot ball on bad hit it comes back out. but if he makes it on bad hit it stays down. OLD MAN STICK