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stickman
07-29-2003, 10:42 PM
Just venting.

I was going nuts today looking for one of my bottles of medicine. I knew that I had recently refilled it. I wasn't able to find it. I burned my nylon spatula up and had bought a new kitchen utinsel set Sat. It had two spatulas in it. I found everything but the two spatulas. I tore the kitchen apart and still couldn't find them. I was beginning to think that I had lost my mind. When I got ready to go to bed tonight, I looked up at the gun rack and saw that my deer rifle was missing. So far, that's all I know to be gone. I hope that's all. The medicine wasn't anything that anyone would want, and there were all sorts of other medications for them to take. And why would someone steal two spatulas? At least they didn't steal my vicious guard dog.

It was likely someone that lives in the area, and they recognized the fact that my truck was missing last night. I went to the poolhall with a friend and played pool. I'm thinking of parking my truck away from the house and walking back and sitting to see if anyone will come back for seconds. They left four other guns. That could turn out to be a bad mistake for them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

kingarthur
07-29-2003, 10:54 PM
Do you reside in my kingdom of Camelot? If so, I will dispatch the Knights of The Round Table at once! Thievery cannot be tolerated in my land!

If the thief is brought to me I will cut off his ears with my well polished blade and send the ears to you by way of my very own personal courier.

Arthur
King of Camelot

Hopster
07-30-2003, 12:49 AM
The medicine wasn't anything that anyone would want, and there were all sorts of other medications for them to take. And why would someone steal two spatulas? <--Stickman

I can understand junkies taking the medicine cause they will swallow turpentine if they think they will get off. But the spatulas has me sitting here thinking what the hell would they do with those ?
My house got broken into a few years ago and the morons tried to get into my gun safe. First with electric hedgetrimmers, then with a butter knife,then they tried a pair of hedge clippers. They brought up my power drill with a bit so small that it wouldnt have done anything anyway. Needless to say all they accomplished was scratching the paint a little.
The idiots all got caught.
If youre there and they come again, make sure you wait till they are in the house before you do anything, Stick. Make damm sure. The front yard or the back yard will make you a guest of the state, let them come all the way in. Then welcome them !!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
07-30-2003, 03:58 AM
This poor man who was terrorised by a group of burglers, shot somebody in his house and did 3 years . One of the theives who was wounded in the break-in, who has just been released from prison [ for another offence ] is planning to sue the poor farmer for damages !.

Check it out .

The world's gone mad .

Q

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3109029.stm

eg8r
07-30-2003, 06:11 AM
The UK is completely screwed up on gun laws.

eg8r

Sid_Vicious
07-30-2003, 07:35 AM
I was robbed only once before getting a home security system. It's about the best < $1 a day money I've spent. These people may come in while you are there sometime, and I surely sleep better knowing I'll get an audible alarm if they do. Seriously, I'm no salesperson for home security but I do like the feeling that, any little noise in the night, or people knowing my schedule(pool players are not all honorable),,,all will have to face an alarm. Cheap peace of mind...sid

Hopster
07-30-2003, 07:59 AM
The UK is completely screwed up on gun laws. <--Eg8r

You got that right. I know the story hes talking about, it has been in the American Rifleman already. Disgusting.

UWPoolGod
07-30-2003, 08:46 AM
But the spatulas has me sitting here thinking what the hell would they do with those ? <--Hopster

Because they broke the rest of their drumsticks and needed to improvise. (Can't you see it) /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Should probably report your rifle stolen so they don't kill someone and have it magically come back to you. Had my car broken into in Seattle...got my golf clubs, fishing gear, car care products, watch, ash tray change.

Todd <--- waiting for the day I see someone on the course with my clubs and bag. It's very distinguishable. (purple, green pink...man now I am glad it was stolen.) /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

nAz
07-30-2003, 10:37 AM
Hey stick thats a good Idea maybe you should camp out near your home and try to bust the Fu@king a$$hole. just don't shoot the person, I don't wanna hear you got locked up for that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SpiderMan
07-30-2003, 12:18 PM
Clicking spatulas together is effective for calling spoonbills, then it's just like shooting fish in a rain barrel.

ps - laughter, the best "medicine"

SpiderMan

Qtec
07-30-2003, 12:59 PM
What kind of a vague comment is that ?


Are you too scared to tell everybody that you think all Americans should be armed to the teeth to protect themselves from the 'enemy '. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif




I am only joking . I had to say something because I think we are probably think the same on this , to a poi /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gifnt !



This poor man was robbed at least 7/8 times , various amounts of vandilism , before the inncident . He lived alone , miles from nowhere and he was being terrorised by this group. 3 years for a gun that went off during a robbery in the dead of night .

I actually agree with hopster [ How I hate saying that /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif ] It is a disgrace .

The kid that got shot was 16 and had almost a hundred arrests . The whole family was criminal .


Sometimes you have to realise that it is too late to help some people and act accordingly . Although this doesnt neccessarily apply to this inncident .

I dont think you need a gun in the city . Out in the country where you alone , I think its a different matter .


Dont start me on hunting . /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


I think if the police foccussed on the crimes that affect people , violence , theft , etc and stopped arresting every junk with drugs on him ,things might happen .


Q

When you start doing things for statistics .........

Ross
07-30-2003, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> The UK is completely screwed up on gun laws.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

They may have difficulty in seeing the inferiority of their gun control laws since their murder rate is currently one-third of the rate in the US.

Ross
07-30-2003, 01:51 PM
Stickman - sorry to hear that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

A few years ago I came home to find my front door wide open. My house was broken into and they took my stereo, TV, my ex's jewelry (including an irreplaceable wedding ring from her grandmother who had brought it over when she immigrated from Russia), a couple of baseball caps(???), and, dammit, my pool cue. I replaced the electronics and pool cue and then I put in an alarm system.

A few weeks later I came home from work and found my front door wide open again. I thought, oh crap, not again! When I got in the house I found the glass doors on my entertainment system wide open up but nothing missing. Apparently the sound of the alarm going off scared them away just as they were about to do their dirty work. Fortunately they didn't know that the alarm did nothing but make a lot of noise! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
07-30-2003, 02:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> They may have difficulty in seeing the inferiority of their gun control laws since their murder rate is currently one-third of the rate in the US. <hr /></blockquote>

What if you had been home when those guys broke in your house. Would you not have wanted a gun to protect yourself?

Wally~~serious, not trying to instigate /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
07-30-2003, 02:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>

......I think if the police foccussed on the crimes that affect people , violence , theft , etc and stopped arresting every junk with drugs on him ,things might happen .


Q

<hr /></blockquote>

Q, now I agree with you. This is scary /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ross
07-30-2003, 04:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> They may have difficulty in seeing the inferiority of their gun control laws since their murder rate is currently one-third of the rate in the US. <hr /></blockquote>

What if you had been home when those guys broke in your house. Would you not have wanted a gun to protect yourself?

Wally~~serious, not trying to instigate /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Wally, yes, I probably would have wanted one at the time. But, in reality, I don't know if the gun saved his life or just ended up turning a routine robbery into a bigger tragedy. Even if he hadn't been prosecuted, most people who've killed someone are left with significant emotional scars.

But the real issue for me is that I see it as kind of an arms race. With guns so easily available in the US and so many crimes being committed with guns (especially in my town of Durham which has a high murder rate) I can see why so many of us feel like we need protection. I worked in a juvenile offender lock-up for a while, and a lot of the kids there began carrying guns and committing armed robbery before they were teens. In England, on the other hand, guns are strictly controlled and and not nearly so accepted culturally. As a result they are a rare commodity - even the cops don't carry them routinely (although this is changing somewhat, I think). And as a consequence, crimes in England are much less likely to involve guns, and the likelihood of anyone being shot is much lower. Statistically, the average unarmed citizen of England is a lot safer (and I imagine feels safer) than the average armed American.


I do sympathize with the farmer. I live in a rural isolated spot, like the farmer, and I did decide to purchase a gun for protection. For me, I realize it is more to gain a sense of psychological safety than a real pressing safety issue. I honestly think the probability that the gun will save my life is miniscule.

But I don't think the lax controls we have in this country over guns is making me safer - I think its quite the opposite.

So my bottom line answer is, yes I would have wanted a gun in that particular situation, and no, I don't believe our gun control are superior to those in the UK.

Rod
07-30-2003, 05:24 PM
I hate em too, my home was broken into. I had a garage, put both cars inside and waited a couple of nights with the lights out. They never returned and it has never happened since. Well later on my car was stolen but that was at an apartment in between moves.

A police captain had his home broken in to. His wife had a small caliber semi-automatic. She emptied the clip in a guy comming down the hall. She claimed being in fear of her life. No charges were filed. The captain told me if you shoot someone, empty the gun. First of all no witness, and it shows you was in fear for your life. He also said planting a knife from the kitchen drawer might be a good idea if the guy is not armed.

Rod

Fran Crimi
07-30-2003, 07:45 PM
Hi Stickman,

Sounds like you've had a pretty rough go lately. If I were you I'd probably get an alarm installed. You can't always leave your truck in the driveway and you shouldn't have to.

Well here's my war story: Back in my accounting days, I walked into a public parking garage after work to get my car and there was this guy in the garage pacing up and down, cursing up a storm. He was yelling that someone siphoned all the gas out of his tank and his car wouldn't start.

I took a look around and said, "Well, I can tell you why that happened. As of this morning, my brand new Cougar was parked next to your car and my gas tank was on "E" as I didn't have time to get gas in the morning. I guess the thief who stole my car didn't want to have to stop for gas." The guy just stared with his mouth open.

It gets worse. I called my insurance broker. Phone no longer in service. Office closed down. Turns out my broker stole all the customers' premium payments and skipped town. Mine never made it to the insurance company. I had no coverage.

Hang in there, stickman. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

stickman
07-30-2003, 09:46 PM
That puts my little experience in perspective. I don't have insurance, and no money to replace my rifle before deer season. But at least I still have my truck, and I can borrow a gun for deer season. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I still hate thieves.

stickman
07-30-2003, 09:56 PM
I guess I'll just make sure the doors are locked, and hope for the best. I don't have the mula for an alarm system. Besides, years ago I lived in an upstairs apartment complex and got broken into. I went out and purchased a real nice alarm system from Radio Shack. I came home drunk one night and accidently set it off and nearly peed my pants. It took forever to get it shut off, and I woke everyone in the apartments. LOL

I don't think I want to shoot some little kid for breaking into my home. I might hold them til the police arrived. If they came into my home armed, that might be another story though.

Hopster
07-30-2003, 10:33 PM
They may have difficulty in seeing the inferiority of their gun control laws since their murder rate is currently one-third of the rate in the US. &lt;--Ross

Youre dead wrong but im not going to even argue the point. Read the article and you decide.

http://reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml

kingarthur
07-30-2003, 11:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Youre dead wrong but im not going to even argue the point. Read the article and you decide.
<hr /></blockquote>

I will take this oppurtunity to point that Camelot has much lower crime/murder rates than either Britain or the United States.

Also I would suggest, that one should find more than a single source in order to make a valid argument. For example, if one was to turn in an argumentative essay in any respectable college class and cited only one source in their bibliography, that particular student would certainly fail. This is not to say that you are wrong, but simply that you provide a feeble argument at best. Seeing that you stated that you aren't willing to "argue the point," and instead refer the readers to outside sources, that simply makes your idea weaker.


Arthur
King of Camelot

Hopster
07-31-2003, 02:54 AM
Also I would suggest, that one should find more than a single source in order to make a valid argument. &lt;--King arthur

Hey your highness, lets see you explain this away .

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/7/10/203335
http://www.straightistheway.com/government/gun-control%20in%20england.html
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/gun_control_part2.htm
http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/000058.html

Now thats 5 separate sources, need more your majesty ??

Qtec
07-31-2003, 04:30 AM
Look out for guy with a fancy pair of chopsticks ?

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
07-31-2003, 06:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>

.....I live in a rural isolated spot, like the farmer, and I did decide to purchase a gun for protection.

<font color="blue">Good /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

For me, I realize it is more to gain a sense of psychological safety than a real pressing safety issue. I honestly think the probability that the gun will save my life is miniscule.

<font color="blue">I would not be so sure of that. I read at least a dozen stories a month from around the country where folks have used a gun to thwart a criminal intent on mayhem. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Ross,

All I can say is </font color>

<font color="red">Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6

From my cold dead fingers........... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

SpiderMan
07-31-2003, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
A police captain had his home broken in to. His wife had a small caliber semi-automatic. She emptied the clip in a guy comming down the hall. She claimed being in fear of her life. No charges were filed. The captain told me if you shoot someone, empty the gun. First of all no witness, and it shows you was in fear for your life. He also said planting a knife from the kitchen drawer might be a good idea if the guy is not armed.
Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Massad Ayoob writes of a common MO of homebreakers: to come in unarmed and go first to the kitchen for a weapon in case you are home and need to be killed. If the house is suddedly entered by John Law, they have the opportunity to toss the weapon. It's a hard sell to convince a jury that they were armed since nothing was found that wasn't native to the home, and they face only burglary charges.

A longtime acquaintance, with whom I'd played league since 1990, was killed last year in Dallas by a butcher knife when he surprised a burglar in his home. He came in on a Friday night a little earlier than usual, and was stabbed when he encountered an intruder. He lived long enough to call 911.

Think about this - he had well-known habits, ie gambling until about 2 am on Friday nights. That night he went home about 12:30 and died. Could someone spot you at your regular poolroom, call his accomplice(s) and tell him that you're on schedule as usual, and then you surprise them by coming home early? Good reason to not let anyone think you're a creature of habit.

SpiderMan

Hopster
07-31-2003, 10:36 AM
Massad Ayoob writes of a common MO of homebreakers &lt;--Spiderman

Hes a good writer about guns and the law. I usually read his article every month in American Handgunner. He also has a few books out as well as a video or two i beleive.

SpiderMan
07-31-2003, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> Massad Ayoob writes of a common MO of homebreakers &lt;--Spiderman

Hes a good writer about guns and the law. I usually read his article every month in American Handgunner. He also has a few books out as well as a video or two i beleive. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, the scenario I mentioned was taken from Ayoob's 1985 book "The Truth About Self-Protection". He wrote of interviews with incarcerated criminals, who told him how they chose their victims and other details of their preparation (such as the kitchen knife).

Encountering an armed homeowner was one of the burglars' greatest fears. They know that the police aren't in there.

SpiderMan

WaltVA
07-31-2003, 12:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
A police captain had his home broken in to. His wife had a small caliber semi-automatic. She emptied the clip in a guy comming down the hall. She claimed being in fear of her life. No charges were filed. The captain told me if you shoot someone, empty the gun. First of all no witness, and it shows you was in fear for your life. He also said planting a knife from the kitchen drawer might be a good idea if the guy is not armed.
Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Massad Ayoob writes of a common MO of homebreakers: to come in unarmed and go first to the kitchen for a weapon in case you are home and need to be killed. If the house is suddedly entered by John Law, they have the opportunity to toss the weapon. It's a hard sell to convince a jury that they were armed since nothing was found that wasn't native to the home, and they face only burglary charges.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I'd think twice about planting the kitchen knife. Massad Ayoob also stated that it is difficult to alter a shooting scene after the fact without leaving evidence that can be picked up by a good forensic technician.

I'd rather take my chances on having shot an unarmed intruder in my home who turned suddenly and made a suspicious movement toward his waist or pocket, putting me in fear of my life, rather than trying to explain evidence that I had deliberately planted a weapon after the fact.

Walt in VA

Rod
07-31-2003, 01:02 PM
Yep, well I was told that at least 20 years ago. Im not sure of the time that passed since his wife killed the guy. That's just what he told me but today it may not be a very good idea.

I don't have a gun, mine was stolen when my car was stolen. I never replaced it but I probably will in the near future and get a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It just won't be a big A$$ 357. LOL

Rod

Wally_in_Cincy
07-31-2003, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> .....It just won't be a big A$$ 357. LOL

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

That's what resides in my nightstand. I hope soon our lying Governor will sign a CCW law soon.

I was at a friend's place last week. A lawyer from England was also there. My friend has a huge gun collection including a 44 like Dirty Harry used. The English guy had never held a gun in his life. You should have seen the look on his face /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

SpiderMan
07-31-2003, 01:45 PM
That reminds me of the three engineers from our plant in Bedford (England) who came over to work in Dallas for a few weeks back in '92. One of the things I did was take them to the local range to shoot handguns. It was quite a treat for them. They were astounded that I had the freedom to keep all these personal weapons at my disposal, plus the reloading equipment ("kegs of gunpowder", as they said) set up in my garage. One of the three guys became a shooting enthusiast, first joining a club back in England, then applying for permits for a .22 and then later a .44 magnum. Of course, he's now lost all those weapons to recent legislation. Last time I visited, I made him a slingshot (which he called a "Black Widow").

Australia is worse, I think there you can't even own a slingshot.

SpiderMan

Ross
07-31-2003, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> They may have difficulty in seeing the inferiority of their gun control laws since their murder rate is currently one-third of the rate in the US. &lt;--Ross

Youre dead wrong but im not going to even argue the point. Read the article and you decide.

http://reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml
<hr /></blockquote>

(Warning - long!)

Ok, Hopster, I read the article. And then I went to the Bureau of Statistics for England/Wales to check the facts. What I found is that the article is grossly misleading and the data do not support it's central point (UK is in world of hurt because of gun-control laws). In fact it is clear that the author is deliberately distorting the facts.

I just have time to point out one, but a fairly large one, of the several egregious distortions. (If you want to check for yourself, here is link to the England/Wales crime data for the past 100 years: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/100years.xls )

He tries to convince us that since the passage of tighter gun controls in '97, violent crime has skyrocketed. To quote:
"And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled."

A glance at the data shows this is patently false. What changed was what was reported. In April 1998, the Home Office adding approximately 25 new categories to the the official crime count. Some examples are "cruelty/neglect of children", "common assault" (domestic violence?), "possession of controlled substances", "assault on constable", and my favorite-- just for its language -- "Soliciting or importuning by a man."

The Home Office presents the 1998 "violent crime count against persons" calculated both ways to show the impact of the added categories: using the old method it was 230,756, but using the new rules it was 502,788. Voila! There is the "doubling of crime" that he reports! To have not noticed this he would have had to not have looked at the original data AND not have read any background information on the data. Given the obscure stats he brings up it is obvious that he pored over the original data, so there is no reasonable conclusion other than he is willing to deliberate mislead the reader if needed to make his point. Sort of a point-of-view hack writer, if you will.


Anyway, a fair comparison, comparing apples to apples, shows that violent crime actually dropped from '97 (250,000 approximately) to '98 (230,000). It is true however, that even using the new method of measurement there was some increase in violent crime from '99 to '01. After adjusting for population, the violent crime rates in 99, 00, and 01 were 1123, 1158, and 1248 per 100,000. Part of this increase is due to a few more categories added along the way, but most of it looks real. So the real rate of increase is approximately 11% from 99 to 01 (can't do 98 since the changes were implemented half way through the year). An interesting fact that should be explored, but not a "more than doubling" by any stretch.

The author can't get around the fairly significant fact that the murder rate in the UK is still 1/3 of that in the US. (Neither has anyone else to my knowledge.) So here is how he explains it: England has always had a low murder rate, even before guns were restricted. He supports this with some statistics from the 1890's and 1904. The problem with this logic is that England has never been a gun-happy society and has had restrictive gun laws for decades (not just recently). So the fact that their murder rate has always been lower than that of the US could just as easily be seen as evidence that their less enthusiastic view of guns has been more effective in keeping their murder rate down than that of the more pro-gun US.

As I say, his misuse of stats and logic goes on and on, and I don't have time to list them all. Just read his article and notice how he cherry picks time frames and populations. This is an easy way to misuse stats, since it frees you up to judiciously pick only the periods and places where the data fits your thesis. A reputable report would note changes in the data both consistent and inconsistent with an hypothesis for a consistent time frame and population. He also switches to andecdotal evidence in lieu of hard data seemingly whenever it fits his current point. And anecdotal evidence can be used to prove just about anything. (Just like we've all heard someone argue that seat belts are bad because he knows a guy whose life was saved because he didn't wear one.)

But what does the data actually say? To be fair it does say that England/Wales had a remarkable increase in "personal robberies" from 1998 through 2001. The rate/100,000 went from 139 to 207, an increase of 49%. This is a remarkable increase. Maybe it was, as some would argue, due to the tighter gun control laws so criminals felt safer to rob on the street. But then how do we explain that during the same period "burglary of a dwelling" (like Stickman went through) actually dropped during the period '99 - '01, from 849 to 819 per 100,000, about 4%, and is in in '01 was down 42% since its peak in 1991? If you blame gun control laws for increasing personal robberies then, by the same logic, the laws must get credit for reducing burglaries? Are you ready to concede that? If not, why not? And how does the drop in burglary rate fit the hypothesis that after gun control, robbers feel safer to break into homes?

The truth is that there are a lot of factors that go into determining crime rates. Historical events (like 9/11), police points of emphasis, and reporting methods are just some of them. A good, unbiased article would help us sort them out. Unfortunately, this was not one of them.


So no, I don't think I am "dead wrong" as you say. And I stand by my earlier point: The UK continues to have a much lower rate than the US for the most serious category of crimes, murder, so it is not an easy argument to make that they should adopt the US's policies toward guns. Come on, be fair now. If the US murder rate was 1/3 of the UK's would you buy their lectures on how we should be controlling crime?

Hopster
07-31-2003, 11:43 PM
They were astounded that I had the freedom to keep all these personal weapons at my disposal, plus the reloading equipment ("kegs of gunpowder", as they said) set up in my garage. &lt;--Spiderman

You a Dillon fan or an RCBS fan or both ?? OR you might surprise me and use something else entirely. Me im still using a rock chucker single stage. Slow as all hell but i take my time and i actually enjoy it at times.

Hopster
07-31-2003, 11:49 PM
So no, I don't think I am "dead wrong" as you say. And I stand by my earlier point: The UK continues to have a much lower rate than the US for the most serious category of crimes, murder, so it is not an easy argument to make that they should adopt the US's policies toward guns. Come on, be fair now. If the US murder rate was 1/3 of the UK's would you buy their lectures on how we should be controlling crime? &lt;--Ross

So the other 4 links that i put up in the other post that say basically the same thing are wrong and overblown also ??
Like i said, im not going to argue and this is as far as i go with it. Draw your own conclusions.

kingarthur
08-01-2003, 01:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Also I would suggest, that one should find more than a single source in order to make a valid argument. &lt;--King arthur

Hey your highness, lets see you explain this away .

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/7/10/203335
http://www.straightistheway.com/government/gun-control%20in%20england.html
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/gun_control_part2.htm
http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/000058.html

Now thats 5 separate sources, need more your majesty ??
<hr /></blockquote>

Actually you will need a hell of alot more. I graduated from Miami University in Oxford OH. I was a graduate of the Western College Program and for our senior project we were required to have 75 sources. It is my opinion that Miami University is a horrible college. I will let you do the math as far as how your argument stands....

Perhaps for a 100 level class your five sources may be sufficient. That is assuming you actually had the ability to interpret those sources into your own personal argument(which you have shown no ability to do.) Certainly your mere five sources wouldn't stand in any high level college course.

Arthur
King of Camelot

Hopster
08-01-2003, 02:32 AM
Actually you will need a hell of alot more. I graduated from Miami University in Oxford OH. I was a graduate of the Western College Program, and for our senior project we were required to have 75 sources. Personally, it is in my opinion that Miami University is a horrible school... so I will let you do the math as far as how your argument stands....

For an english 111 class your five sources may be sufficient, that is assuming you actually had the ability to to interpret those sources into your own personal argument(which you have shown no ability to do.) Certainly your five sources wouldn't stand in any high level college course. &lt;--King Arthur

I could have put up a hundred sources if i wanted to or if i felt the need to. Theres no point in going further than ive gone because i would get the same reply that im getting now. Which by the way is a big zero.
As far as incorporating the sources into my argument, i wouldnt waste my time as all anti gun people do is talk in circles and around things. Show them evidence, they claim its false, show them reports, they claim they are doctored.
And the sorry truth is they are the ones who continually distort things for their own purpose.
So why waste my time with you more than i have ?

kingarthur
08-01-2003, 02:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Theres no point in going further than ive gone because i would get the same reply that im getting now. Which by the way is a big zero.
As far as incorporating the sources into my argument, i wouldnt waste my time as all anti gun people do is talk in circles and around things. Show them evidence, they claim its false, show them reports, they claim they are doctored.
And the sorry truth is they are the ones who continually distort things for their own purpose.
So why waste my time with you more than i have ?<hr /></blockquote>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! It seems poor lil' Hopster has became frustrated with his inability to convey an intelligent argument.

Hopster, you should come to Camelot and become one of my jesters. You are certainly a great clown!

Arthur
King of Camelot

Wally_in_Cincy
08-01-2003, 06:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kingarthur:</font><hr>
...I graduated from Miami University in Oxford OH.

<font color="blue">Didn't you used to be "johnnypanic" ? Why the name change?

Oh BTW, Lancelot is banging Guineverre, just thought you should know /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Hopster
08-01-2003, 09:26 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! It seems poor lil' Hopster has became frustrated with his inability to convey an intelligent argument. &lt;--King Arthur

Why waste time with an intelligent argument with an idiot ?
Ross put up an intelligent response, all you put up is drivel about what school you went to. No facts, no figures, no nothing.
Have a nice day, King Imbecile.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ward
08-01-2003, 11:37 AM
Sid

I have a little mini-schnauzer, she barks at any usual noises. She is better than any alarm system. But I have to take care of her, which cost more than the alarm system.

Here in Texas we have the right to carry guns, execute more people than anywhere in the world, and Dallas has the highest crime rate of any major city. Go figure.

Later

SpiderMan
08-03-2003, 09:29 PM
Ditto - I'm still using the old Rock Chucker that I bought in 1983. It's relaxing, at least in the wintertime when my garage isn't so hot. BTW, it's not all that slow, either, if you develop a good batch system. Once I timed all my operations (resize batch, clean batch, prime/expand batch, reload batch), added up all the time (except for overnight in the tumbler, which doesn't affect me), and divided by my batch size. I found that for straight-walled pistol cases I can exceed 150 rounds per hour. That includes filling the primer feed tubes and all the other operations combined.

I have a Hornady Pro-jector still in the box that I got on sale a few years ago. So far, progressive hasn't looked attractive enough for me to take the time to set it up. Anyway, I'm so picky I could never omit the tumbling step between resize and reload. Maybe on 9mm if I someday go full-auto /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SpiderMan

Hopster
08-03-2003, 09:51 PM
Ditto - I'm still using the old Rock Chucker that I bought in 1983. It's relaxing, at least in the wintertime when my garage isn't so hot. &lt;--Spiderman

Spidey , you popped that one right in the 10 ring. Summer time out here i dont load nothing unless its at 3:00 in the morning.
Actually i do make pretty good time with the Rock chucker. As soon as i get back from the range the brass goes right i the tumbler for 2 hours and then i start the process. I have these shellholders that i got that i drilled out of wood that hold fifty cases so i just go right under the powder tumbler so im not going one at a time. Its just zip, zip, zip. Most times i will do one stage one day then the next day the next stage. Thats assuming im doing 300 cases or better.
I made a lot of mistakes along the way but nothing that was serious, thankfully. But you do got to stay on top of things and take nothing for granted.

kingarthur
08-04-2003, 12:18 AM
As to Johnypanic, I do not know who you are refering to.

As far as lancelot and my ex - they are both dead. The marriage was bound to fail though. Guin had developed a nasty meth habit, and I had developed a nasty habit which I will not mention(though it does involve my fellow knights of the round table.)

Arthur
King of Camelot

WesK
08-04-2003, 04:33 AM
I have a Rock Chucker that I use for load development. A couple of Dillon Square Deal B's (one for .45 and the other for .38).

For all of the pistol and rifle stuff, I load on a friend's Dillon 550.

But, I used a friend's Dillon 650 XL once and did about 1,000 rounds in a hour. Place a bullet, pull the handle, push the handle, done.

Needless to say, a 650 is on my list if I get back into competitive shooting again.

Still doing 150 rounds in an hour with a Rock Chucker isn't bad.

wes