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bluewolf
08-02-2003, 07:50 AM
This happened to me last week, and wondered if it has happened to anyone else.

After coming out of the zone,especially since the person I beat had beaten me handily the last time we played, well I was still in a fog and had not yet realized I had zoned.

People complaining about my sl, saying it should be higher, it should be this or that. You know how it is in APA where everyone seems to think a person is sandbagging, rather than maybe they just had a good night.

Has anybody else gotten complaints like this after playing well,maybe better than you usually play?

Laura

Kato
08-02-2003, 07:55 AM
I don't remember the last time someone complained about my game. I'm pretty much a known entity. Sure, I'm capable of running racks and sometimes stringing a few here and there when I'm hot so I don't get dogged when I do. No one really complains when I make a couple of balls and then miss.

Kato~~~makes a few, misses a few

bluewolf
08-02-2003, 08:32 AM
I did not even remember the match nor these shots everyone was complaining about. I think it is the choke factor. The shots imo are not difficult, but long cut shots that sometimes a sl4-5 may miss because they choke,rush the shot, or lift the head. Since I was not nervous at all, i did not have all 'oh this is a long cut and it is on the 8' choke choke thoughts in my brain. To me it was just another shot.No thoughts or whether it would go in or not.Just Do the stroke,hit the dam* ball, no emotion.

I am an unknown entity and a relativley low sl making those kind of shots, well they were pretty p**sed. I just did not see why they were so upset, because this person had beaten me at the first of the session,they saw me play then, also, and commented on my stroke. And the same person who commented on how good my stroke was and how I had potential was the one who got the most mad.

Cant a person just have a good night? It doesnt make that person great, just means that did good that night. I do not get all of this. Also, at a lower sl, a person can do great one week and bad the next week.

Just wondered if anybody else had ever had complaints, inferences that you might be sandbagging.


Laura

bolo
08-02-2003, 09:05 AM
Quote
"Has anybody else gotten complaints like this after playing well,maybe better than you usually play?"

answer,
They probably have a legitimate complaint.

It comes with the territory, as you get better your handicap will change and it will make it harder for you to win, because you have to keep up a new standard of play. You may not like it and may have been spoiled by your low SL, but that is the way it goes. You can't have it both ways. You may find it a little stressful trying to keep up your new level of play. You see a lot of good players at handicapped tournaments often complaining about their handicap. They want it to be easier, but that is the point of a handicap. You should have to play your speed to win, not be able to coast. The better you play, the harder the game gets, due to the new demands required to play at a higher standard. You play tougher competition, improvements come slower, all in all you may not find it as fun, even though you should.

bluewolf
08-02-2003, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Quote
"Has anybody else gotten complaints like this after playing well,maybe better than you usually play?"

answer,
They probably have a legitimate complaint.

It comes with the territory, as you get better your handicap will change and it will make it harder for you to win, because you have to keep up a new standard of play. You may not like it and may have been spoiled by your low SL, but that is the way it goes. You can't have it both ways. <hr /></blockquote>

Well certainly you are right. I just got bumped up three weeks ago. They were complaining about someone I beat at my new designated skill level. It just seems kind of silly because #1 i just got bumped up and #2 I do not play at the level they thought I should be, just did that night. I certainly do not play at that level in my practice because my shooting is not quite at that level on anything even close to a consisten basis.

IMO-I play like my designated skill level. I was just in the zone, so played better that night. If I was bumped again, it would be a huge ego boost even if I started losing all of the time, but it would not be reality, in terms of my current pocketing ability.

Laura

Kato
08-02-2003, 09:20 AM
Bolo, I think you hit the nail directly on the head. Everyone wants the easier game but deep down you know when your handicap is too high or too low. Don't complain about it, just shoot it.

By the way Laura, SL4's miss plenty of shots for no apparent reason, that's why they are SL4's. I've hit shots that I swear Efren couldn't make but trust me when I tell you I'm not a pro, semi-pro, or really good player. I was watching Frankie Hernandez on T.V. last night miss balls anyone could make. Am I in Frankie's league? Shoot, I couldn't hold his case for him.

Kato

bluewolf
08-02-2003, 10:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr>
By the way Laura, SL4's miss plenty of shots for no apparent reason, that's why they are SL4's. Kato <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe I do not know that much about how a sl4 shoots. just think that on a regular basis, they shoot consistently better than I. I have put up the wei on the last 3. ww says i made 10 really good shots in the match which was only two games, but since i was zoned do not remember them. ww told me about the last three. OTOH, I do ocassionally see a three make a long hard shot. I know I would be an okay 4 in strategy, breaking, and barely in shape. I still know that they shoot better than I 90% of the time.

simple stop shot with bottom med speed. was straight in even if it does not look that way on rsb

START(
%Ah5O7%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pd5J0%Wg7N4%Xd9J3%Y r7Z4%Zh8P3
)END

long cut that I make one to two out of ten times

START(
%A[6\8%BJ9S6%Cp2O9%Ds7C4%E[5\6%F[6A9%Gm4I9%Hi2T4%I[9B1%Jt0C4
%K[2\7%LH2Z9%M[6\9%NB8\7%OC0C4%Pg4O4%WK9S5%Xf6O8%]C8[6%^J3S8
)END

long on 8 about 15 degree cut ww and i had hard time drawing this. just remember a long 15 degree cut that I make ww says 3 out of ten times

START(%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%H g8W3%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PJ8H6%Wd6T7%XK1I2%Y r4[3%Zf9V0
)END

I cannot accurately very well say the % and had to ask ww because I do not do drills, I just shoot balls, trying to have perfect stroke, same on every shot, perfect rhythm.Sometimes they go in, sometimes they dont. I do not worry about this in my practice, just striving for perfect on fundamentals. ww said that if I practiced this way, the balls would start going in eventually.

Okay. so I made these three in a row to win that last game because I did not think about whether they were hard or not. That never occured to me. i just lined up, did the stroke and shot, without any consideration about whether they would go in or not. I was in the woowoo Zone /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Now, considering that I was in the zone and that these last two are low% shots for me, should I not be a sl3. I just got lucky imo because nothing was bothering me.

What do you guys think? Am I right or are they right?

rackmup
08-02-2003, 04:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Kato~~~makes a few, misses a few <hr /></blockquote>

Liar.

Regards,

Ken (I was there, remember?)

rackmup
08-02-2003, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bluewolf:</font><hr> Just wondered if anybody else had ever had complaints, inferences that you might be sandbagging.
<hr /></blockquote>

Kato is a sandbagger.

Regards,

Ken (owned by Kato)

JPB
08-02-2003, 06:13 PM
If you are not sandbagging you might want to start with taking the butt of a cheap cue and applying it to the whiner's teeth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Just kidding. Don't do this. It is technically illegal.

But this is why leagues are dumb. You will run into this forever if you play leagues. try to learn to play then play in non handicapped tournaments. That's the only way to play in tourns. If you lose so what, at least you are competing. Handicapped leagues really aren't competition.

If you need a spot play for the cash (insert "if it legal where you are" disclaimer) and adjust as you go. Adjust once per gambling session if you like. If you are ahead and the person is being a jerk about you winning, pull up while ahead, put the money in your pocket and let them pay their own time. Laugh at them when you do this if you are not too afraid they will apply a cue to your teeth.


There, isn't that better than playing short matches in a handicapped league. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

There's my anti-league post 'o the month.

Rod
08-02-2003, 07:35 PM
Pool players are whiners, especially a fair percentage of league players. Keep a bottle of warm baby formula handy, insert in cry baby's mouth. HTH

~~~ rod, use the word rating instead of sl, actually don't use any numbers. Well Ok, you can but once a month

rackmup
08-02-2003, 08:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bluewolf:</font><hr> You know how it is in APA where everyone seems to think a person is sandbagging...<hr /></blockquote>

Let me first state that I play on an APA team and further, that I have fun every Monday night doing so.

With that said, you have obviously learned what 99.9% of all APA players of a skill level of 6+ to a 7+ has learned:

There is more whining and crying in any given establishment hosting an APA league than one would find in most hospital nurseries. In some instances, you will find greater levels of maturity in those same nurseries than on some APA teams.

It is the nature of the APA. The APA exists for the recreational or "new" player that is looking for organized competition. Some of the players know little or nothing about the heritage of the game, who its' "All-Stars" are and have seldom played anything but eight-ball in a local pub. For some, it is the "next step" from "Occasional Recreational Bar Player" to "Recreational League Player" (there isn't much difference with the exception of the membership card, weekly fees and the occasional patch that is almost immediately sewn onto their "Pool" shirt or affixed to their cue case.)

The whining they used to do when told a "scoop shot" is illegal is no different. They complain that a safety is "Chicken Sh!t" and pump their fists in the air when they luck in an 8 on the snap and proclaim to their equally googan buddies that they "read a book on breaking and now I know where to hit it to sink the eight everytime."

These are the same guys that tell their friends new Simonis 860 is "Worn out. This must just be a practice table", chalk so hard they have a blister in their palm from screwing the tip right through the cube and into their hand, wear a pool glove on each hand and use green Brillo pads on the shaft of their Mongomery Ward "Jeff Gordon" Nascar cue.

After spending some time playing APA, most will "spread their wings" and play in a more traditional format, such as a BCA league, played by BCA rules, and against more skilled players. It is here your game will get better. Show me almost any APA skill level 7 player and I'll show you a player who plays in more "realistic" (no slop) formats, practices harder and rarely ever plays by APA rules when playing with others (unless it's against a new APA league player of a lessor skill level to keep things fun.)

Now...about this "zone thing": I don't know what that is. I know there are speed "zones", "zoning" ordinances, those who are "zoned" out and us native Ari"zone"ans. As for a pool zone? Man...I don't think I've ever been in one of those.

Laura! Please! Go out RIGHT NOW and sign up for a BCA/BCA-Type league. You will be so glad you did.

Regards,

Ken (quit the APA for an entire year and didn't start again until OPC hypnotized me and coerced me into it again.)

bluewolf
08-03-2003, 06:52 AM
Ken,

You got me LMAO. I know you are goshing about 'the zone'.

Here is how BCA works here. It is round robin, you play 5 players one game each. That is what some people dont like here, that you only get to play each one one game.

I do think the players are better too, from what I have heard. I will check into it for next session.

Seriously, I do like my APA team members, but of the seven on our team, I think that few want to advance. The six wants to stay a six, the fives want to stay fives, the four wants to be a five without the drive to do what is required to get there, just complains.

WW is locked as a sl7. The now sl2 who is capable of being a four but chokes does not do anything to figure out why, the two sl5s dog balls because they lift their heads, then complain but do nothing to try to fix that, even after ww told them just to freez, the six does not want to be a seven. You are right, they complain and stay in their comfort zone.

I am not a great player, but at least I try to figure out what I did wrong, so I can improve. I do have one goal and that is to keep getting better. I do not see much drive in others so your suggestion sounds good to me.I see very few with a drive to improve in our league.

Laura

OnePocketChamp
08-03-2003, 08:05 AM
Hey Kato, just remember I owned Ken first and this maybe the reason he took his game 1800 miles out of Texas to hook-up with you. I am not looking for thanks but would like to discuss a mutual ownership arrangement with you.

It is always fun to play with Ken, he racks the balls with great care but after reading his break cue post I have miscued three times---go figure /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

08-03-2003, 08:46 AM
This post sounds like a thinly veiled brag session. Congratulations on finally getting to SL3. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

rackmup
08-03-2003, 08:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>Here is how BCA works here...you play 5 players one game each. That is what some people dont like here, that you only get to play each one one game.<hr /></blockquote>

And it is this format that will make you better! Let's look at the APA...Example:

It is a match where you need to win 2 and your opponent, because of his/her higher skill level, needs to win 4.

Your opponent might be up 3 games to your 0 and looks like he/she is ready to run away with the match but during a moment of inattention, slops the 8-ball in and loses. Now the score is 3-1.

You are on the bump! You break and as balls are bouncing around, one ball bumps another and just happens to kick the 8 in the side pocket giving you that needed second victory. You win the match 2-3 but did you really beat your opponent?

In a format where you play each person one time, your focus or that "zone" that you speak of, needs to be right on. One mistake could cost you a game and your team the match. It simply makes you better.

With that said, if your goal is to simply have fun, drink a few beers and laugh with your pals, don't change a thing. But, if your goal is to get better, play in competition and become that "cold as ice" player you aspire to be, you will need to eventually get away from using the APA as your foundation.

The only place the APA has the level of intensity that I enjoy is at the National level. Then it's dog-eat-dog.

Regards,

Ken

08-03-2003, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> become that "cold as ice" player you aspire to be
<hr /></blockquote>

But is she willing to "sacrifice our love"

rackmup
08-03-2003, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote OPC:</font><hr> Hey Kato, just remember I owned Ken first and this maybe the reason he took his game 1800 miles out of Texas to hook-up with you.<hr /></blockquote>

As the busy season at work slows down, our weekly practice and weekend marathon sessions are about to resume. But, I do see a problem:

You are no longer the "free spirit" that you once were. Come on. Admit it. You now have a somewhat "significant other" in your life that requires a great deal of your time.

Our previous pool playing sessions have been "Guys Only." Oh sure, Mrs. Eg8r showed up from time-to-time but she had the benefit of a contractual (marriage) loophole that allowed her to be there. Plus, she was always eager to run to Tommy's for burgers. It is a known fact that [name deleted to protect her identity] doesn't have that same loophole.

My point is this: When I call to arrange for a game will I hear: "Great! See you there!" or will I hear:

<ul type="square"> "Gosh, I wish I could but I promised [deleted] that I would come over and mow the lawn." "Man, that sounds like fun but [deleted] and I are going to the mall." "I would love to but [deleted] is over and we're popping some popcorn and getting ready to watch some movies together." "I can't. [deleted] said I'm acting distant and we need more quality time together." "I would but that's our wine tasting night at the club." "I would but tonight is our ballroom dancing class." "Ken, I would but the curtains we ordered for my apartment are in and [deleted] and I are going to hang them. You should see them! They are so pretty!" [/list]

I just don't want to come between you and [deleted]. You remember how it was when we spent every free minute together playing pool. You were catching a lot of grief.

The other problem is this:

You have grown accustomed to playing with a gentleman like Ed...Very little woofing and what little woofing he did, if as in the past, was completely ineffective. You have also apparently swayed him from his once preferred game of 9-ball and over to the evil side of the game: one-pocket.

I am not an impressionable young lad like Eg8r is. If we resume our once intense playing schedule, you will play 9-ball, 10-ball, 8-ball and 1-pocket. You will not steal away my will as you did with Ed. You will be woofed at while you are down on a shot. You will see the jump cue in action during a 1-hole game. You will be teased about any flaw you allow to be seen.

Do you really think you are ready for this, considering your edges have been dramatically softened by playing with the friendly likes of Eg8r and further "wussified" by the presence of a woman full-time in your life?

Regards,

Ken (Not bashing Eg8r, he's a great guy but it is true...the boy is soft. I mean, he once called me "mean. When have you ever seen me be "mean?" And, not bashing [deleted] either. She is a wonderful woman but let me ask the other guys of the forum: Men...am I wrong that a full-time woman can and will be detrimental to your game? (Say "NO! Of course not!" if your woman is looking over your shoulder right now.[/i])

08-03-2003, 09:34 AM
In case your interested,after checking out those shots,how difficult you rate them and the position U played in that sequence,that would make you a low to maybe mid "D" level player.
U need to learn how make balls AND get better position. It's not about how many hard shots U, it's how many easy ones U can set up for yourself. U made it harder starting with your first stop shot into the corner. U should have drew the Q ball to center table. Then with a easy cut on the next ball,U can go 2 rails for a easy shot on the 8. BTW, most average "C" players will play it that way and execute it regularly.
There, I helped U. Who says I never do good deeds.
BTW,would U like to trade handles? I think it would be more fitting.

bluewolf
08-03-2003, 12:05 PM
Thanks for the suggestion YW.Sorry if the WEI was confusing. It was drawn from very bad memory. Perhaps should not have put it up at all.

If I did not draw the ball, there was a reason,like the opponent's ball in the way.We were lucky to figure out where my shots were in an approximate way and do not remember where all of the opponents's balls were.

In that situation, the stop was the right shot. In terms of going two rails with a harder hit to get better, easier position on the eight, you seem to be correct on that.

Thanks anyway.

Laura

bluewolf
08-03-2003, 12:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>
And it is this format that will make you better! Let's look at the APA...Example:

It is a match where you need to win 2 and your opponent, because of his/her higher skill level, needs to win 4.

Your opponent might be up 3 games to your 0 and looks like he/she is ready to run away with the match but during a moment of inattention, slops the 8-ball in and loses.
Regards,

Ken
<hr /></blockquote>

I do not consider that the same as if I won due to playing well. Winning due to my opponent say scratching the 8 does not mean I played well and I do not benefit. My team does but it means nothing to me.

I do not like coachings either. I say handicap or coachings, not both. Lots of the handicaps are not fair, imo. Dont see any way to do that right. Personally, think different leagues for different ability would be best.

Laura

rackmup
08-03-2003, 12:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I do not like coachings either. <hr /></blockquote>

Coaches are for football.

Couches are for sitting.

One should stay on the other and let me play my game.

Regards,

Ken (Typically a League "Coach" wants you to do something on the table they can't even do.)

Kato
08-03-2003, 05:27 PM
Hmmmm, an ownership partnership type setup. OK, you get to beat him whenever you feel like it and I'll torture him when he comes my way. Just soften him up for me before he comes down here. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kato~~~putting Ken in a vicious cycle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

rackmup
08-03-2003, 05:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr>...you get to beat him whenever you feel like it...<hr /></blockquote>

OPC wishes he could beat me up at his every whim but let me tell you, it isn't happening.

And you, you young whippersnapper. Just you wait until I get there this month. Things are going to be different!

Regards,

Ken (the different things will be my clothing that I wear to the pool room)