View Full Version : SIMONIS-- OVER RATED??
today, no matter where you go the cloth is simonis, what about fortsemann, championship, granito and mali, i believe simonis is great but they have a monopoly on cloth and that the other companys are just as good. what's your thoughts.
Theres a reason that they have a monopoly...it is the best cloth, plain and simple. The room that I play at has recently made the switch from 860 to championship, citing the added durability of championship as the reason. After much play on both cloths, I have to say that simonis is by far a better cloth. I find that the grain of the championship affects the way that a ball rolls, particularly during the final few revolutions when the balls seems to wobble from side to side. I can't wait for this cloth to wear so we can, hopefully, get some 860 back.
I agree with the other poster. Simonis is in a class by itself.
Most of the cloths that try to imitate Simonis (all the other low-nap cloths) end up being too thin and fast. Yes, I realize that there are multiple grades to many brands of cloth, including Simonis. But most of the other low-nap cloths are just too fast, regardless of which model it is within that particular brand. And they do not maintain such great playability over a long period of time, ending up becoming thin and shiny (shiny is bad, because it indicates how smooth and pressed the cheap cloth has become; when this happens, the table can start playing like ice) relatively quickly.
I'm not real fond of championship either, cueball.
I had that installed on several tables. In the roll
it seems to be like simonis, but when installed it had
a nap and a rough one at that. I called championship and
he said that was the older style, (I got a deal) and that
the newer version was cut much smoother. That stuff was
real heavy to which made the table slow. Needless to
say when that wore out I went to simonis. I see it hasn't
So is slate... we should use honeycomb tops instead, right?
In regards to what mike said, the granito cloth is extremely fast. It seriously makes 760 seem slow (to me). Which really messes up my speed control. There is nothin that compares to Simonis IMHO.
Without reading the other responses, Simonis is certainly very high quality cloth and all the tournament players seem to demand it. We've used Granito here - and it is very good also, particularly considering it's about 2/3 the price of Simonis and wears just as well. I've also heard from a number of posters here that swear by Championship's very fast equivalent of Simonis as being an excellent playing and wearing cloth at probably about 1/2 the cost of Simonis.
For myself and our customers here, it's worth the higher price to have the Simonis. My personal preference is the 760 blend - which plays faster than the more popular 860. - Chris in NC
There was one of the Diamond coin-op tables from Derby City with Artemis cushions and Granito cloth in Tampa for the Patriots cup to get the players' opinion. They said it was too fast. The owner of Diamond said he thought the 760 was too fast too and he's tested most of the cloths except the Charles House worsted which I think is way too fast.
In the straight pool matches all they had to do was barely nick the rack and plenty of balls would come out. I think the fast cloth is overrated and I agree with Rempe who thinks you don't need much of a stroke to play on the fast cloth.
It's necessary to play on what you're likely to encounter but I don't see any point in going with a faster cloth than the 860.
02-19-2002, 06:23 AM
I have 860 on my table and am very comfortable with it,as far as speed control-I played on a friends table with 760, and Boy, I was like richochet rabbit, bing-bing-binging all over! What I wanted to ask is, doesnt 760 wear quicker than 860?
02-19-2002, 10:16 AM
Sub-Topic: How Fast Is Too Fast?
It seems to me that there should be no such thing as too fast of a cloth (or cushions for that matter, but thats a different topic).
The purpose of a cloth is to provide a smooth, even rolling surface over the slate for the balls. To be practical, it must last a reasonable amount of time before it wears out. Wearing-out could be defined as no longer providing that smooth, even surface.
The issues of consistancy and wearability are of obvious concern; but as far as rolling resistance, I think the less effect the cloth has on slowing down the balls, the better.
They put the cloth on to slow down the balls otherwise we would be playing on the bare slate. Slower is better! Somewhere between bare slate and shag rug there is a range that is appropriate. It isn't 760 and it isn't Granito for pool. Faster is for 3 cushion. If you don't care to improve your stroke then stick to the fast stuff but make sure you never play for serious money on conventional cloth. Play only on pro tables and make sure the cloth hasn't loosened any.
I've played on Simonis cloth on pool-hall tables and a week ago installed the Championship "titan wool" on my table (just because I couldnt afford the simonis at this time) and I have to say there is a small difference. The biggest difference is speed IMO. Not sure which model the poolhalls have but I find the ball rolls just as true on Simonis as it does on championship, you just have to 'tweak' your speed to compensate on each table.
If your on a budget, I wouldnt 'turn down' championship cloth. I got mine for 55 bux and recovered all of my oversized 8 footer.
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