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shoot2thrill
08-13-2003, 10:40 PM
first let me say that i am all for bettering the game of pool .but how much more crap are we going to let charlie williams get away with .i mean this guy is out for nobody but himself and i know some pro player's who all say the same thing ( how much money you gonna pay ME to let you play in MY tourney)he told one pro friend of mine he would'nt put him on the tourney bracket unless he paid him an extra 100.00.this was after this guy had already paid his due's to play and then there's the earl thing..i would like to here from some of the pro player's here on how they feel about this guy and his dirty dealing's

eg8r
08-14-2003, 06:47 AM
I am going to go out on a limb and say you will not hear from the pros.

If you do have "pro" pool friends, why are they not here talking about it????

eg8r

jjinfla
08-14-2003, 06:48 AM
I find that hard to believe. How can CW keep someone from getting into a tournament? Well, other than Earl. Or, are you referring to being seeded? Which of course is a big advantage for the player who gets seeded. But then, CW can not do it all by himself, the other pros in the club must agree with whatever actions you are referring to because they are not speaking out against them. Jake

Keith McCready
08-14-2003, 07:14 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Earthquake

DebraLiStarr
08-14-2003, 07:41 AM
Everything you say is basically a rumor. Charlie and the UPA have made some very unpopular decisions, but at least they are making them. From what I hear, the UPA guys are not hard to find, why not talk to them and get the complete story?

Ken
08-14-2003, 07:49 AM
Debra, By calling this a rumor are you impling that others have said the same thing? I find it hard to believe that CW could be so stupid as to extort money from individual players. I was asuming that this was a claim made only by shoot2thrill. If is is indeed a rumor then there might be some truth to it.

I tend to believe what Keith said about it. What was that again, Keith?
KenCT

Keith McCready
08-14-2003, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr>What was that again, Keith?<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Earthquake

RedHell
08-14-2003, 09:15 AM
Let's see if I can translate:

/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif = Oh no !
/ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif = The basdtard !
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif = But why ????
/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif = Well, what can we do about it ...

Ken
08-14-2003, 09:49 AM
"/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gifWell, what can we do about it ..."

What can be done about it is quite simple. If they are requiring certain players to join at the $100 level, that is in direct conflict with information that is posted at their website at this very moment. This act would constitute fraud and extortion, both crimes and acts for which a civil action can be brought. They could be sued in federal and state courts.

The UPA has shown a pattern of illegal activities and the bums should be put out of business.

It should be noted that there is a $75 late fee and together with the $25 UPA fee that results in a $100 extra charge. This has been posted for quite some time and would be no violation of stated terms. There is also supposed to be a field limit of 64 and anything above that is a violation. With the quality and number of players in this tournament and with only $20,000 added this event is no bargain.
KenCT

Qtec
08-14-2003, 10:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It should be noted that there is a $75 late fee and together with the $25 UPA fee that results in a $100 extra charge <hr /></blockquote>

Finally a logical explination.



People believe what they want to believe , dont you think.

Q

Ken
08-14-2003, 10:35 AM
Qtec,

It's hard to tell for sure what is going on here but someone unfamiliar with the long-posted $75 late fee (exhorbitant in my opinion) would be inclined to feel cheated. I suspect it was not a well known part of the contract. I certainly hope it is going into the prize fund. It seems they have exceeded by far the 64 player limit that they promised and are sorely in need of more prize money.

Since this thread is about rumors, is anyone able to confirm the rumor that the L.A. Open was cancelled because the promoter was unwilling to put up with the UPA?
KenCT

DebraLiStarr
08-14-2003, 11:14 AM
Ken

Great explanation, but why should we focus directly on the UPA? They are getting money from somewhere, right? The tournament sponsors and directors are the ones giving the UPA money. Perhaps we should flood them with e-mails and ask them to pull their support of the UPA.

Every week I read about another tournament that has UPA sanctioning. The problem is that the money in these tournaments attracts players that care less about the political BS and more about the guaranteed prize fund. The UPA events are still attracting a large majority of the top pros, and to many people, that's a good thing!

The fact is that UPA must be doing something right in order to be so successful. A good "pro Player" would not have to worry about $100 (IMO). He could probably win that in less than an hour. If he has to worry about it then he should leave the UPA alone and play on a smaller tour.

This "pro player" made the decision not to become a UPA member (a decision that assesses a fee) and he should live with the consequences of that decision. If he has a problem with that then he should just not pay it. By doing so, he is not supporting the UPA tour. It is that simple. Blaming and flaming CW for someone else's personal decision is ridiculous to me. It's in writing, and not "dirty dealing", just their rules.

nAz
08-14-2003, 11:41 AM
like i said before all this will come back and bite him in the a$$.

string em up.

Ken
08-14-2003, 11:45 AM
Debra,

There's only one thing wrong with your argument: the UPA has no tour! They are just muscling in on events that would be held with or without the UPA's involvement. Except maybe the L.A. Open which I heard was cancelled because of the UPA. If that is true then there is one fewer event because of the UPA. That's a loss not a gain!

And just how are they "successful". They got people to help them financially when they started but much of that money was not continued because of how they have been doing business. Their own events are certainly not "successful". If they can't bring anything additional to the game and can only horn in on existing events and cause trouble they are just a pain.

Their exsistance depends upon the charity of their sponsors, (which is disappearing) and the money they can extort from independent promoters. They have not achieved anything by themselves.

You probably don't know that joining the UPA and signing their contract turns you into a servant at their beck and call. I don't see why anyone would do it. I'd be glad to email anyone a copy so they can see for themselves.
KenCT

Keith McCready
08-14-2003, 01:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr>A good /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif "pro Player" would not have to worry about $100 (IMO) /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif. He could probably win that in less than an hour. If he has to worry about it then he should leave the UPA alone /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif and play on a smaller tour.<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Earthquake

DebraLiStarr
08-14-2003, 01:21 PM
Ken,
If they are losing sponsorship for the reasons you have stated, may the UPA die a slow, painful, financially miserable death. Fact is, The Big Apple tournament is drawing all of the big names (including Mr. Earthquake) and it looks like it will be a big success. A big success is not something a lot of business people will ignore (or not want to be associated with).

PS: Yes I agree that much of the UPA contract is unfair.

Keith McCready
08-14-2003, 02:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr>Fact is, The Big Apple tournament is drawing all of the big names (including Mr. Earthquake) /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif and it looks like it will be a big success.<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Earthquake

UWPoolGod
08-14-2003, 02:39 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think Earthquake is just trying to up his post total. By the end of this thread he should be up to 3746204762

Todd /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

shoot2thrill
08-14-2003, 04:20 PM
a lot of you guy's have got some good points on cw and the upa .and the "pro player" does'nt play in any upa tourney's. and i don't blame him .but this i do know cw has not and never will come here and anwser these question's .and if I myself was on the up and up and really wanted to promote the UPA I would be on every message board i could find trying to win people over.my ole man told me one time if you give a man enough rope he will eventually hang himself.and cw thats a pretty good lookin knot you got goin there!!!keep up the good work boy.well thats what my ole pappy would say /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
oh yea good luck to you keith and godspeed
SHOOT TO THRILL
PLAY2KILL

Ralph S.
08-14-2003, 04:31 PM
Hey Ken, would you by chance be kind enough to e-mail me a copy of that contract. I am currently in need of some "finer" reading material. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif You can use the following address to send it to. MastersMaster@aol.com

eg8r
08-14-2003, 05:36 PM
I am not sure what it is, but he is definitely not a man of many "typed" words. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Harold Acosta
08-14-2003, 05:39 PM
Los Angeles Open 9-Ball Cancelled
Due to a scheduling conflict with another event in the Los Angeles area that has not been resolved, this years Los Angeles Open 9-ball Championship and Billiard Expo, has been cancelled.

By AzB Staff - June 24, 2003

Ken
08-14-2003, 10:09 PM
Harold,
I'm well aware of that press release that originally came from the L.A. Open website. My first question is what is this mysterious other event that is causing the conflict? If it is anywhere near as big as the L.A. Open why can nobody tell me what it is? I have inquired elsewhere.

Could this phantom event be a conflicting event that Charlie the Dragon threatened to stage to draw "his pros" away from the L.A. event? I don't know but something sounds fishy here.

Anyone know of any big pool tournament in the L.A. area in late Oct?
KenCT

Vicki
08-15-2003, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> Harold,
I'm well aware of that press release that originally came from the L.A. Open website. My first question is what is this mysterious other event that is causing the conflict? If it is anywhere near as big as the L.A. Open why can nobody tell me what it is? I have inquired elsewhere.

Could this phantom event be a conflicting event that Charlie the Dragon threatened to stage to draw "his pros" away from the L.A. event? I don't know but something sounds fishy here.

Anyone know of any big pool tournament in the L.A. area in late Oct?
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

Ken,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It wouldn't be the first time Charlie and the UPA have used this technique to either force a promoter to allow UPA sanctioning or to force the promoter out of business. Seems to be the UPA way.

Vicki

jjinfla
08-15-2003, 10:37 AM
But if there is not another event that is conflicting with the tournament why would the promoter lie and say there is? How would that benefit him? Why wouldn't he just say that he couldn't meet the pro's demands and just decided to forget about the tournament?
Jake

Ken
08-15-2003, 10:53 AM
Geez Jake, why would any promoter lie? Do they really do that? I'm devastated.

It's interesting that the "revised" UPA contract says that "Player will not play in non-UPA sanctioned events that CONFLICT with the UPA..." (emphasis added) and Jay claims that he was unable to work things out due to "conflict with another event". Maybe it's just a coincidence in the choice of words but it seems that there is no real event that is in "conflict".

I'd have to cut Charlie some slack on this one, however. I heard about this nearly 2 months ago and have not yet confirmed it from any other source. If it were true I would expect it to be general knowledge by now.

Pool detective needed.
KenCT

Vicki
08-15-2003, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> But if there is not another event that is conflicting with the tournament why would the promoter lie and say there is? How would that benefit him? Why wouldn't he just say that he couldn't meet the pro's demands and just decided to forget about the tournament?
Jake <hr /></blockquote>

The UPA (not the promoter) have used some heavy handed tactics to "encourage" promoters to allow UPA sanctioning. They threaten to schedule a UPA sanctioned event that conflicts with an event already scheduled and advertised by another promoter in order to force that promoter to allow sanctioning. Suddenly, if the promoter accepts UPA sanctioning then the conflicting UPA event disappears. This has happened to a number of promoters - most of whom have eventually been forced to work with the UPA but a few have had the good sense to hold their ground. It is those events that I will be supporting this year and I will not attend any UPA sanctioned events.

I cannot speak about the LA Open. I don't know the true reason that the event was cancelled. The conflicting event may or may not have anything to do with the UPA.

Vicki

Alfie
08-15-2003, 02:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr>This has happened to a number of promoters - most of whom have eventually been forced to work with the UPA ...<hr /></blockquote>I am appalled with all this rumor mongering and unsubstantiated allegations.

Which promoters have been coerced in this manner? Which events?

It's time to quit with the insinuations and actually present some facts. What do you know and how do you know it?

Rich R.
08-15-2003, 05:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> It's time to quit with the insinuations and actually present some facts. What do you know and how do you know it? <hr /></blockquote>
Alfie, you may have to trust me on this one. But, if Vickie says it happened, I would say it happened. Vickie is on the inside track and knows a lot about the things that are going on with these tournaments.

I can also understand why Vicki may not want to provide the sources of her information.

You will either have to believe what she says, or not.
Personally, I believe.

cueball1950
08-15-2003, 09:23 PM
I agree with rich on this one. Vicki knows whats going on. and earl told me right after he got kicked out that the fee/dues for touring professional is $100. So if this is a "pro tournament" then you must have to ante up the $$$$$. who knows what is going on in cw's mind.............mike

Harold Acosta
08-16-2003, 06:41 PM
I don't know which is the other event that conflicted with the LA Open. The info I posted was obtained from the AZ Billiards Website. No further information about the reasons was found but if not mistaken, the LA Open was rescheduled for another date. Will find out and post it here.

<font color="blue">Billiards: A passionate sport for the mind and soul!</font color>
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/images/starscrash.gif

Harold Acosta
08-16-2003, 07:47 PM
Still remains cancelled. Visit this website and contact them for more information.

http://www.laexpo.net