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rackmup
08-18-2003, 04:45 AM
Have you ever missed a two foot ball-in-hand shot on the money ball?

I need to know if it's just me.

Regards,

Ken (just don't understand how that can happen...)

Qtec
08-18-2003, 04:57 AM
HaHaHaHaHa /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Depends on how much beer you've had. LOL

HaHaHa [ cant stop ] Ha................


Q

rackmup
08-18-2003, 05:11 AM
I wish I could blame it on beers, bad food, a naked woman walking by, an earthquake or an armed robbery with shots fired into the ceiling just as I was about to shoot but none of those things happened.

Q...I'm just hopeless.

Regards,

Ken (BIH two-footers should be "gimme's", just like they are in golf.)

jjinfla
08-18-2003, 05:42 AM
Yup, Yup, Yup. And everytime it was because I stroked the CB just a tad left or right of center which threw the OB right or left. Just carelessness on my part. Usually it's a shot that I can make 100 out of 100 and took it for granted. Mostly, because I don't take the game serious enough. LOL---and to add insult to injury they have the audacity to call me a sandbagger. "That was a defensive shot". "It was not". "You missed it on purpose". "I did not". "Only an idiot could miss that shot" "well....Your point?" Where else could a person have this much fun?
Jake

Deniel
08-18-2003, 05:42 AM
Don't beat yourself up, it happens to me too. Sometimes when the shot is too easy your brain sort of got lazy and that's when things go wrong.

Deniel <- Making up excuses so that he has a "legitimate" one when it happens... again...

9 Ball Girl
08-18-2003, 06:01 AM
Yup. All due to either carelessness, excitement, or my all time worst enemy "Yeah I got this" mentality. Just make sure you don't do it when you play Kato next time!

Qtec
08-18-2003, 06:11 AM
Ken , if its any comfort , I would deem it an insult if anyone would ask me to shoot a 2 footer with BIH .

Its just not done .


Q

Rich R.
08-18-2003, 06:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Have you ever missed a two foot ball-in-hand shot on the money ball?

I need to know if it's just me.

Regards,

Ken (just don't understand how that can happen...) <hr /></blockquote>
This is justification, to require an opponent to shoot all shots. You never know when some one is going to go brain dead and miss an easy shot.

For me, it is usually misalignment or not hitting the cue ball in the center. Just me being lazy and stupid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bluewolf
08-18-2003, 06:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Have you ever missed a two foot ball-in-hand shot on the money ball?

I need to know if it's just me.

Regards,

Ken (just don't understand how that can happen...) <hr /></blockquote>

Not yet. I have seen this happen to many very good players,though,which is scary.

Laura

Qtec
08-18-2003, 06:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This is justification, to require an opponent to shoot all shots. You never know when some one is going to go brain dead and miss an easy shot.
<hr /></blockquote>

I disagree. This is about honour and respect .
If you have to win by your opponent missing a sitter , its a hollow victory .


Its not what you do , its how you do it .

Dont you agree Ken ? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q

eg8r
08-18-2003, 07:49 AM
I disagree.

I do not think I need to reward my opponent just because it is his turn at the table and he is on the money ball. Get down and shoot it. If it is a hanger it should be no problem. Now we get to see how well you concentrate. Even though the shot is a hanger, is your opponent able to concentrate on the shot and make it.

I have yet to see a golfer at the US Open tell Tiger Woods, "Don't bother shooting in that 6 in putt, I know you can do it". Heck no, they all make him shoot it.

eg8r

eg8r
08-18-2003, 07:50 AM
Nope Ken, it is not just you. Surely you remember my tremendous ability to do this on any ball, not necessarily the money ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Rich R.
08-18-2003, 07:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I disagree. This is about honour and respect .
If you have to win by your opponent missing a sitter , its a hollow victory .


Its not what you do , its how you do it .

Dont you agree Ken ? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q

<hr /></blockquote>
And I have to disagree with you Q.

Honor and respect have nothing to do with it.

The rules, of whatever game you are playing, dictate what a player must do, to win the game. If you do not let a player shoot the last shot, you are deviating from the rules and giving up the game.
You may as well give up on the first shot and avoid waiting for the last shot.

I respect any player, who wins according to the rules.

I am a firm believer in the words of Yogi B.
"It's not over, until it's over."

Tom_In_Cincy
08-18-2003, 08:01 AM
Ken,
I would be too embarrassed to even admit I had done that.

Nope.. never missed a 2 foot gimme...

Barbara
08-18-2003, 08:02 AM
Probably. I'm just seriously blocking it at the moment.

I have seen my opponent miss a spotted 9-ball with BIH.

I'll never forget that!

Barbara

Kato
08-18-2003, 08:12 AM
I've missed more "gimmie" shots than any person alive because of bad fundamentals. I'm better now than I was 2 years ago but still will dog it.

Kato

NBC-BOB
08-18-2003, 08:14 AM
I'm not sure that it ever happened to me! However I did shoot a ball into the wrong pocket playing a game of one pocket and it cost me $50.Ha-Ha.I seem to remember watching Buddy Hall shoot a two foot shot for $50,000 and missing that shot for the big prize.

Qtec
08-18-2003, 08:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Honor and respect have nothing to do with it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Honor and respect have nothing have everything to do with it .

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 08:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>
I have yet to see a golfer at the US Open tell Tiger Woods, "Don't bother shooting in that 6 in putt, I know you can do it". Heck no, they all make him shoot it.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

They do this all the time in match play, which I suppose would be more comparable to pool matches.

Fred

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 08:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Have you ever missed a two foot ball-in-hand shot on the money ball?

I need to know if it's just me.

Regards,

Ken (just don't understand how that can happen...) <hr /></blockquote>

It's just you. And me.

Fred

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Ken , if its any comfort , I would deem it an insult if anyone would ask me to shoot a 2 footer with BIH .

Its just not done .


Q <hr /></blockquote>Other than the fact that it's an official tournament rule that you're not allowed to concede games, I can't see where you're coming from.

Fred

WesK
08-18-2003, 08:43 AM
I must say that I agree with both you and with Rich.

Yes, honor and respect for everything is paramount. That's why you don't woof at the guy who messes up and loses--you honor and respect your opponent.

However, do you not also honor and respect "the game" by adhering to the rules?

And, should you not honor and respect yourself by understanding that a win is a win and it is not a "hollow victory" but rather just the way things go. Sometimes they roll for you and sometimes they roll against you.

Against many of the guys I play with, if you dog ANY ball and don't get a lucky safety, you have lost the game.

just my two cents...

wes

holls
08-18-2003, 08:44 AM
I did recently, but the lights went out. Don't know if I made it or not, but neither did my opponent. Is that a win or loss??? We're still debating....

miko
08-18-2003, 08:47 AM
This happened to me quite a few times before. Its exactly because u think that it's a gimme that's why u don't take too much time doing your usual routine. I now stick to my routine whether it is an easy shot or a difficult shot. I noticed that I don't miss them easy shots no more, at least not that frequent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
08-18-2003, 09:18 AM
I thought he was playing Kato .

Golfers never give 6 footers away . A 6 footer is not a 'gimme'.

Q

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>

Golfers never give 6 footers away . A 6 footer is not a 'gimme'.

Q <hr /></blockquote>I wish for once you'd think before posting. But if you did, I'd fall over in my chair out of shock. The thread is about conceding.

I can think of many instances where a golfer has given up a non-gimme. One is when they need a two-putt for the win on a hole. Ever see that? If you thought just a hair longer before pulling the trigger, that might have occurred to you. Or not.

The late great Payne Stewart conceded a 20+ ft. putt to Colin Montgomery because the U.S. had already closed out a miracle comeback at his last Ryder Cup. He could have halved the match, but instead graciously ended the tournament with the concession.

Fred

08-18-2003, 10:17 AM

eg8r
08-18-2003, 10:19 AM
I have not seen it yet on TV and I am not skilled enough to hang out with them in practice. If it has happened, I would be very suprised.

eg8r

Rich R.
08-18-2003, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
Honor and respect have nothing have everything to do with it . <hr /></blockquote>
You can honor and respect your opponents in many ways, without changing the rules of the game.

Personally, I don't see how giving up a game, before it legally ends, honors or respects anything.

Fran Crimi
08-18-2003, 10:21 AM
That's easier to do than you think, Ken. Doesn't matter if the shot is 2 feet, 3 feet, or 5 feet. You already made the shot in your mind, but you forgot that you had to execute.

Next time, take a deep breath and remind yourself to execute.

We all do it. Some of us just get lucky and make the shot in spite of ourselves. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Fran

Rich R.
08-18-2003, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Is this honorable? Get real: why not? <hr /></blockquote>
Ray, if I am following your example correctly, in that you concede all the 8-ball shots and then make your opponent shoot the "big one", it is not honorable. It is more of a sharking move. JMHO.

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>
Rich, I see you (and others) are still thinking inside the box LOL.<hr /></blockquote>I think everyone understands gamesmanship, sharking, and whatever else goes hand-in-hand with concessions.

In golf, it's allowed. In BCA pool, it's not. That's the bottom line.

Fred

Qtec
08-18-2003, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>

Golfers never give 6 footers away . A 6 footer is not a 'gimme'.

Q <hr /></blockquote>I wish for once you'd think before posting. <font color="blue"> Fred, are you still mad at me ? </font color> But if you did, I'd fall over in my chair out of shock. <font color="blue"> I think you are . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> The thread is about conceding. <font color="blue"> No. Its about Ken missing a 2 footer . </font color>

I can think of many instances where a golfer has given up a non-gimme. One is when they need a two-putt for the win on a hole. Ever see that? If you thought just a hair longer before pulling the trigger, that might have occurred to you. Or not. <font color="blue"> There is a difference between 1 putt and 2 putts. </font color>

The late great Payne Stewart conceded a 20+ ft. putt to Colin Montgomery because the U.S. had already closed out a miracle comeback at his last Ryder Cup. He could have halved the match, but instead graciously ended the tournament with the concession. <font color="blue"> The game was over ! </font color>


You obviously dont play golf . Ask anybody . A gimme is usually the length of a normal putter .


Lighten up Fred , lifes too short .

Q

<hr /></blockquote>

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I have not seen it yet on TV and I am not skilled enough to hang out with them in practice. If it has happened, I would be very suprised.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>They do it in match play like the Ryder Cup, the US Amateur. So, we're talking about three or four major tournaments televised a year. Unless you're a die hard television golf fan, I guess you might not see it.

Fred

eg8r
08-18-2003, 10:48 AM
No sir, I am not a die hard fan. I just watch when I see it on TV. If it happens, then it happens, I just had not seen it.

As a rule for myself, whenever I am in a tournament I never give the last ball. Everyone must shoot the ball in to win. Leaves nothing to question. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Rod
08-18-2003, 10:51 AM
Well if it wasn't on the money ball it was another ball before. Either way it's a looser.

~~ rod, probably has

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I wish for once you'd think before posting. <font color="blue"> Fred, are you still mad at me ? </font color> But if you did, I'd fall over in my chair out of shock. <font color="blue"> I think you are . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> The thread is about conceding. <font color="blue"> No. Its about Ken missing a 2 footer . </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

You are correct. It's about Ken missing a 2 footer. Is that what you were answering? I didn't think so. As I revisit the thread, it looks like you forced it towards a discussion on concession. Good job for not remembering.


[ QUOTE ]
I can think of many instances where a golfer has given up a non-gimme. One is when they need a two-putt for the win on a hole. Ever see that? If you thought just a hair longer before pulling the trigger, that might have occurred to you. Or not. <font color="blue"> There is a difference between 1 putt and 2 putts. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Huh? Didn't I just give you an example where a golfer concedes a non-gimme putt? If he needs to 2-putt for the win on a hole and the opponent concedes the six footer, he concedes it as a 1-putt six footer, not a 2-putt.

Why am I explaining this? Can't you just admit you spoke before you thought?

[ QUOTE ]
Lighten up Fred , lifes too short .<hr /></blockquote> If saying that makes you feel good, more power to you.

Fred &lt;~~~ life's to short to be a dumbass

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> No sir, <hr /></blockquote>
Jeez, you didn't have to insult me.


[ QUOTE ]
I am not a die hard fan. I just watch when I see it on TV. If it happens, then it happens, I just had not seen it.<hr /></blockquote> I hope the "2-putt for the win on a hole" in match play was clearly understood and makes the notion (of a six foot concession) read as "common."

[ QUOTE ]
As a rule for myself, whenever I am in a tournament I never give the last ball. Everyone must shoot the ball in to win. Leaves nothing to question. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif<hr /></blockquote>In yesterday's quarter finals of the B-side at the Big Apple Challenge, Francisco made a bad hit , and Jose' called him on it. Parica was on the hill. I think the "I am the older Filipino" concept made Francisco bow down rather than arguing about it more than he did. The hit was close. It needed a referee. Tie would usually go to the runner without a referee.

Anyway, with ball-in-hand, Jose' got to the 5-ball, and Bustamante conceded. Maybe out of frustration more than anything as I didn't the last 4 or 5 balls were a gimme pattern.

And in case anyone there was wondering, I had a great view of. It was a foul. Afterwards, Francisco and Parica were at a table together playing gin and eating a steak.

Fred

rackmup
08-18-2003, 11:44 AM
I dogged the 8-ball, plain and simple. I mean, c'mon...BALL IN HAND and I miss!

My opponent had 1 ball left and the cueball rolled into such a position after my miss that he had a table length bank shot. Now understand, my opponent was at least three-ball speed lower than me. In my first match of the night against him, he broke, made one ball and missed his next shot. I ran out on him.

He banked his last ball and drilled it dead center of the corner pocket and was left with the 8-ball hanger that I created for him.

I shook his hand, said, "you don't have to shoot that" and conceded the game.

Was it out of honor and respect that I gave him the game? No, it wasn't.

I gave him the game because I proved one shot earlier that I didn't deserve the win after not bearing down just as I had on every other shot leading up to my feeble attempt on the eight.

Regards,

Ken

Qtec
08-18-2003, 12:02 PM
You havent a clue what you are talking about .



In MATCH play when you concede the hole , you concede the HOLE . Strokes are not counted as a total . The winner of the HOLE is the one with the least strokes . The score is counted in holes . You are not saying that your opponent will hole out [ what if you concede the hole when you are both 100 yards from the flag , say you have taken 20 strokes and the opponent 1 . Does that mean he can write a 2 on his card ?

In pool you only have ONE shot , not two .

Again I ask you , was this an official tournament or a game between friends ?

Q

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> You havent a clue what you are talking about .



In MATCH play when you concede the hole , you concede the HOLE . Strokes are not counted as a total . <hr /></blockquote>

What is it about you that continues to lose the conversation.? Of course I know that. I'm the one who brought it up in the first place since you were clueless forgetting about match play and how it runs. But trying to explain it to you would be a further waste.

The guy gets that stroke conceded. If you don't understand that, then give it up. I don't care about all the other fluff you say to try to muddy up the water. You said that golfers don't concede 6' putts. I said they do. You are wrong. Deal with it.

Fred &lt;~~~ admits wholeheartedly when he's wrong, which ain't this time

Fred Agnir
08-18-2003, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
In pool you only have ONE shot , not two .<hr /></blockquote> I see you didn't bother to READ my Jose' vs. Bustamante report.

Fred

Eric.
08-18-2003, 01:20 PM
You mean having BIH, lining up on the money ball and catching the tit, jawwing the ball?

Or

playing perfect po to get right on the 9 ball only to hit it thick, into the rail?

Nope. Never.


Eric &gt; /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bluewolf
08-18-2003, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>
Rich, I see you (and others) are still thinking inside the box LOL.<hr /></blockquote>I think everyone understands gamesmanship, sharking, and whatever else goes hand-in-hand with concessions.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

GEEZ. And to think that all of this time, I thought these sl7s were being respectful. I never give the BIH or easy 8 to anyone. I might just get lucky. They might choke so I do not give it away.

Laura

Ralph S.
08-18-2003, 03:14 PM
Yes Ken, I have dogged the money ball before and I am sure I will again. The bright spot is that it doesn't happen very often. Now that I have posession of Scott's magic chalk, it very, very rarely happens like it used to LOL. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dg-in-centralpa
08-18-2003, 03:25 PM
I never missed the money ball with bih, but I did when I got perfect position for the shot, by talking myself out of the shot and not concentrating. I missed other shots with bih because they were "gimme's", or I was worrying too much on breaking out a combo, or getting the right position. Speaking of missing a 2 foot putt, Tiger missed a 2 foot putt either this past weekend or last weekends tournament. I had someone miss the money ball which was a straight shot to the corner in playoffs this past year.

DG - I admit I've done this, but not the money ball - almost a miss but it dropped

jjinfla
08-18-2003, 03:43 PM
Quote WW:
Reminds me of a time where I was playing a golf game for money, and the guy didn't let me put for the first few holes. He just gave me the puts. WHY? Because he figured that I would not get used to the greens...
_____
Sounds like the scene from one of the James Bond movies. Where James gave all the puts until it really counted and the bad guy misses it. LOL
I have seen the guys in the pro opens (and guys in money games) use that technique in pool too (when they are not playing under rules where it is mandatory to shoot the 9). Maybe they are not being nice - just setting the guy up. So that when the guy has to make the shot he is thinking about why you aren't giving him the shot and he dogs it.

Jake

cueball1950
08-18-2003, 10:40 PM
ALWAYS /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Qtec
08-18-2003, 11:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see a golfer at the US Open tell Tiger Woods, "Don't bother shooting in that 6 in putt, I know you can do it". Heck no, they all make him shoot it.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

In stroke play , you have to whole out . In match play , you can concede the whole at any time .
If I am in the hole for 4 and Tiger has a six footer to win , would I consider that it was a gimme . No way . To win , you have to putt. If he then rolled the ball to 1 ft away , I would say thats a gimme. I would not let him putt.

With only the 9b and BIH , that should be a gimme. There is no reason to miss , although it happens from time to time .

In golf , a gimme is a putt that you would expect to make almost all the time and thats not a six footer.

Q

CarolNYC
08-19-2003, 03:42 AM
Hi Ken,
Two feet is quite a distance to put the cueball with BIH-I would've put the cueball,like, 8" from object ball!
And the answer is Yes, I have missed BIH!:(
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rich R.
08-19-2003, 04:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>And the answer is Yes, I have missed BIH!:(
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>
And I have been a witness. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Drives me crazy, when Carol does that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Scott Lee
08-19-2003, 11:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Have you ever missed a two foot ball-in-hand shot on the money ball?

I need to know if it's just me.

Regards,

Ken (just don't understand how that can happen...) <hr /></blockquote>

Ken...IMO, it depends on the shot. Is the OB two feet from the pocket, or is the CB two feet from the OB? I believe it makes a substancial difference...which I why I teach my students to put the CB ONE FOOT from the OB, when they get BIH (provided they can reach the shot), and it doesn't matter how far the OB is from the pocket. You should almost NEVER miss that shot, assuming you have a proper preshot routine. However, the truth is, that even Efren has missed shots like that (as have I). Rule #1 in pool is that EVERYBODY MISSES!...so don't make such a big deal about it! LOL

Scott

Head Hunter
08-19-2003, 02:34 PM
I've done worse than that. Had BIH and dropped the CB on the 9.

I believe giving the 9 is more respect than anything. I know plenty of good players I don't give anything to because I don't like the way they act.

CarolNYC
08-19-2003, 05:53 PM
Oh my Goodness,
Thanks Scott for describing how I may have misinterpreted that question and forgive me Ken-shoulda had that second cup of coffee!
Uh-DUH!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
08-19-2003, 05:58 PM
LMAO Rich,
If that isnt the worst,I dont know what is-
Fuhgeddaboudit!
Miss ya!
Carol:):):)

Aboo
08-28-2003, 03:10 PM
APA 8-ball, our sl3 had BIH on the 8 in a "rubber" match against a 6. She is nervous and fidgety and asks for a coach. Our sl7 goes out, calms her down, places the cue ball and explains the shot. She lines up on it wrong, still nervous, so he stops her, takes the cue and attempts to show her the line-up... and strokes through the cue-ball, he pulled up in time to keep the 8 ball from falling, but still gave the 6 BIH and the out LOL....
Holy CRAP was our sl3 mad LOLOL

griffith_d
08-28-2003, 04:20 PM
Actually, no,...I have never missed a straight in shot,...if you believe that, I have some mountain property in Louisiana to sell you.

Griff