View Full Version : Calling a Double Kiss Shot?

08-20-2003, 10:48 PM
I was playing in a local bar tournament the other night. In this tournament we play a combination of rules (APA, hitting a rail with the cueball or object ball if a missed shot) and we play must call the pocket. My opponent wanted to call a double kiss off the cueball. What I mean is he wanted to hit the object ball off the rail then hit the cueball again and pocket it in the side. I said that a double kiss is illegal, but since I knew that odds of making this shot was unrealistic I said if you make it the shot I will give to you, LOL. Anyway, I was right and he missed the shot. I wanted to know if you are a calling shots is a double kiss legal or not?

08-20-2003, 11:25 PM
What I mean is he wanted to hit the object ball off the rail then hit the cueball again and pocket it in the side. <hr /></blockquote>

I don't think you said what you meant, or did you? It implies he wanted to hit the c/b twice, which isn't legal. Well it isn't legal unless you made a prior arangement. LOL

He could, in one stroke without a foul, hit the o/b into the rail, have it kiss back into the c/b, and pocket the object ball.

So what happened on this shot?


08-20-2003, 11:44 PM
The double kiss rule refers to the cue stick hitting the cue ball twice, not to the cue ball hitting an object ball twice. It is not illegal for the cue ball to hit an object ball twice, or even three or more times for that matter.

Personally, I dislike the bar room rule that requires every bank, carom, or kiss be called. It is a complication that eliminates the possibility of making two way shots. For instance, if a second object ball is partially guarding a pocket, the called object ball might go in the pocket clean or it might carom off the guarding ball into the pocket. This is a calculated chance that is part of the strategy of the game.

How about when shooting an object ball that is an eighth of an inch from the rail down the rail into a corner pocket? Should one have to call whether it will graze the rail or not before it falls into the pocket? To require that be called adds a ridiculous level of difficulty to what may otherwise be an already difficult enough shot. If you say that doesn't have to be called, what if the object ball is half an inch from the rail? An inch, two inches? At what point does it become required to be called?

This rule can cause a lot of disputes, especially in a bar.

Neither the APA nor BCA nor any other widely recognized and significant ruling body in the world requires that the path or collisions of an object ball be specified. When calling shots, they only require that the ball and pocket be indicated.


08-21-2003, 06:27 AM
A double kiss shot is where a ball hits off another ball twice. This is not an illegal shot.

A "double hit", however, is. This is where your cuestick contacts the cueball a second time in the course of shooting.


08-21-2003, 07:55 AM
If your playing call pocket then he would not have to call the double kiss anyway.

But like everybody else is saying its not a foul unless the cue stick hits the cue ball more than once per shot.


08-21-2003, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sneakypapi:</font><hr>I wanted to know if you are a calling shots is a double kiss legal or not? <hr /></blockquote>I've never played "call your shot" - I've played by BCA or APA rules, which is "call your pocket". I've also never seen published rules for "call your shot", so...

I would think that in "call your shot", if he calls a double kiss and makes it, it should definitely count. It's like calling the ball into the pocket off of another ball, except this time it's the cue ball. Doesn't seem like any special big deal illegal thing to me.

08-21-2003, 11:55 AM
Yeah nothing super enlightening to me either...I was playing $5/rack straight-8 last night and called this double kiss in the corner pocket because I did not have room to bank or cut the OB. Just put alot of top right on the ball to send it into the OB again.


phil in sofla
08-22-2003, 06:17 PM
I agree with most here that it should be entirely legal, with one possible exception: if the object ball in question was the 8 ball, and if the rules required it go in 'clean.'

Not sure on the ruling, but 'clean' on the 8 means not hitting anything else on the way into the pocket (even if a kiss is called-- that kiss isn't allowed, called or not). Whether hitting the cue ball again would violate this, I don't have enough experience to know. In a bar pool situation, it might depend on which player tries it, and who has been drinking what and how much, LOL!

08-23-2003, 02:06 PM
Playing a double kiss off the cue ball is a lot easier when playing with the old heavy bar table cue ball - especially the larger heavy cue ball. But I sure do hate that ball. the larger heavy ball was in the Moose lodge on their coin operated tables. must be old because the tables take only one quarter. But one local bar still uses regular size but heavier cue balls. Jake