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View Full Version : Zero tolerance stop shot, from BBB... any help?



Aboo
08-21-2003, 09:31 AM
Ok. For anyone who has read this book, or the guy who wrote it...

I've worked my way through all the white belt shots and all the Yellow Belt shots and all of them are fairly simple to master if you put in the table time. (And pay attention to the book... I did one shot backwards for an hour before realizing my mistake....)

My problem is this. On that Zero-tolerance stop shot... FOR GOD SAKE THROW ME A BONE! LOL The white almost ALWAYS rolls forward, just a HAIR. But it's noticable. I know the shot is possible, but I shot it 3-40 times last night and stopped it 3 times, total.
80% of the time, the cue ball rolls forward just a hair. I can tell if I'm getting frustrated, because it starts to slide left on me. (10% of the time).

Anyone give me any hints on what I might be doing... one thing I find good about all this... At least I'm consistently messing it up the exact same way! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cycopath
08-21-2003, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr> but I shot it 3-40 times last night<hr /></blockquote>Somewhere between 3 and 40 times, huh. Can you be little more specific.

Just Kidding /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
08-21-2003, 10:55 AM
I don't know the shot nor have I seen it diagramed on the wei, but I have a decent idea. A stop shot is a stun stroke depending on the distance. Speed becomes a factor but so does table conditions. If the ball rolls a hair forward most every time, it's time for a change. Once again depending on the shot it may take a bit of low to stop the ball. It may also be stopped with a slight bit of cue elevation. Like I say I don't know the exact shot but when you get the same results every time, it's time to make a slight change. What this is teaching you is make exact contact on the o/b not to mention the c/b plus how you need to adjust for your table conditions. Set it up on the wei.

Rod

Aboo
08-21-2003, 11:02 AM
Here is the shot on the RSB/Wei table...

START(
%A^6F7%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg6O4%QZ7A4%U_8H1%V f8O0
)END

The way the drill is described, you are supposed to stroke through the ball, dead center and use speed control on the cue ball to make it stop DEAD. No movement at ALL. The object ball (the 1 here) is to be pocketed in the side. (A)
It is possible that I am seeing the "center" of the cue ball a little higher vertically than it should be. Thus pushing it through a little to far.

Steve Lipsky
08-21-2003, 11:09 AM
Aboo, have you tried shooting the shot just a hair below what the book is telling you?

Why must the book be right, and even if it is, why must you play exactly how the book describes?

- Steve

Aboo
08-21-2003, 11:23 AM
I haven't tried striking the white lower, yet. But I probably will soon.

As far as the book being right, and/or me playing like the book says, well...

I purchased the book because I have flaws in my game that are keeping me from improving. I know that I don't have all the answers, or my name would be Efren. When learning, I've found it best to trust the material and/or teacher. Question it, yes, make it/them prove the concepts to you. Yes.
That's what I'm doing here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Questioning. Is it something I'm doing, or something the books telling me/ not telling me /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod
08-21-2003, 11:29 AM
Although this ball can be stopped dead with center, it is best to error a tad on the low side. It wouldn't be enough speed or low to draw the ball. Your probably right about not finding vertical center. It's an OK drill but not necessarly the way to shoot the shot in a game situation.

Rod

Dead Stroke
08-21-2003, 11:30 AM
to make the c/b stop dead after a shot hit the cue ball half way between the bottom of the ball and the center, or at least that's what allison fisher says /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Fred Agnir
08-21-2003, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr> Here is the shot on the RSB/Wei table...

START(
%A^6F7%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg6O4%QZ7A4%U_8H1%V f8O0
)END

The way the drill is described, you are supposed to stroke through the ball, dead center and use speed control on the cue ball to make it stop DEAD. No movement at ALL. The object ball (the 1 here) is to be pocketed in the side. (A)
It is possible that I am seeing the "center" of the cue ball a little higher vertically than it should be. Thus pushing it through a little to far.
<hr /></blockquote>

The way you've described and diagrammed, it looks like you are shooting the shot exactly right. At this distance with a normal stroke, this looks to be the standard Bert Kinister Shot #1. The cueball rolls one revolution forward to replace the object ball.

I don't see how it's supposed to stop dead , considering what's taught is that it rolls forward slightly.

Fred

sledhamrbrk
08-21-2003, 11:35 AM
Aboo,

In an effort not to change the drill too much from the book.You might try moving the o.b. to the lower corner of the triangle (2 foot from pocket)and place the C.B. 2 foot from the .o.b. This will get you further away from the rail and not require as much cue elevation. The slight elevation may not be allowing a level stroke. In order to execute this drill at core center,your cue is required to be level.

Hope this helps.

Aboo
08-21-2003, 11:41 AM
I understand the "game situation" thing, that would totally depend on where I wanted to go with the cue ball after the shot.

The emphasis in this drill is stroke development. I haven't read any of Bert K.'s stuff, but that is exactly what is happening to me. It (whitey) rolls forward, as if it's taking the place of the object ball. Of course, if I was TRYING to get it to do that....

UWPoolGod
08-21-2003, 11:48 AM
80% of the time, the cue ball rolls forward just a hair. &lt;-Aboo


There was this guy in Seattle that I used to watch play when I was starting to pick up pool. He was practicing different length straight in shots the length of the table. He kept doing stop shots over and over and everytime they would roll forward 1 inch. So one day we asked him why he was doing all of those stop shots and letting it roll forward an inch. He said that it is all practice and you never know when you will have the need to roll that extra inch to shoot around or between other balls to get the right angle. At that moment I became fully aware of the time, effort, and practice to become proficient at every aspect of position play. And using that practice to put towards game situations.

spanky
08-21-2003, 12:11 PM
one thing that has helped me learn dead center cue ball, load up your tip with chalk,address the cue ball where you think dead center is. then just touch the cue leaving a chalk mark on the cue. then stand sideways to the cue ball and look at the chalk mark and see if you really are hitting the cue ball on vertical center. I did this and found I was always hitting about 1/2 tip too high. Just something to try.

Rod
08-21-2003, 12:15 PM
I meant game situation, as in stopping the ball dead.

That ball should stop dead in it's tracks with a crisp center ball hit. If it travels forward, you either hit it to soft or not at the center. The last variable is table conditions, if it's humid and sticky you may need to shoot a bit more firm. Stopping the ball I think is easy, I'd just use a little low with med soft stroke. If you want to do it as the drill suggests then shoot it as mentioned. You will however need to find the center of the c/b.

Rod

Vicki
08-21-2003, 01:20 PM
I don't know the book or the shot... but if a shot you intend to have stop rolls forward a bit then hit it harder. It means the cue ball has started to roll forward by the time it makes contact with the object ball. It needs to be sliding for it to stop. Try using a striped ball in place of the cue ball. With a striped ball you can see if it is rolling backwards, sliding, or rolling forward.

Vicki

Eric.
08-21-2003, 02:02 PM
Good point, Vicki. I agree that he may not be stroking it enough.


Eric

socrates
08-21-2003, 02:54 PM
First you are commended for both your persistence with the shot and your powers of observation.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." - Yogi Bera

From what you described, it would appear your speed of stroke is ok but you need to move the tip just a smidge lower on the cb.

A hidden agenda to this drill is to help you develop what a center ball hit on the cue ball looks like from your individual sight perspective. I believe for most people this will look like the tip is slightly below the center of the cue ball.

Best of Luck - Enjoy the Journey

Aboo
08-21-2003, 03:18 PM
Well, persistance with the drills has helped me move up a level in APA. I'm an sl5 now. Thx for all the replys here folks, I'm going to give the chalk/ball trick a try and see just exactly where center ball is for me. But from my experience I think I AM hitting just a bit to high on the ball. I'll adjust it and let you know how it turns out after this weekend. Leagues tonight and work friday /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Fred Agnir
08-21-2003, 04:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote socrates:</font><hr> A hidden agenda to this drill is to help you develop what a center ball hit on the cue ball looks like from your individual sight perspective. I believe for most people this will look like the tip is slightly below the center of the cue ball. <hr /></blockquote>Steve, I don't know what you think is supposed to happen in your drill, but at moderate speeds, everything in nature points to a slight forward roll at impact.

Fred

Ralph S.
08-21-2003, 04:55 PM
Fred, from what you just described, the ob moving forward and taking the place of the object ball, is a replacement shot. According to what I have been taught by Scott, this is one of the most difficult skill shots of all. Far more difficult than a stop shot, which is what this appears not to be.

A stun or stop shot is relatively easy, espescially when straight on or very little angle is there to deal with.