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cycopath
08-21-2003, 01:54 PM
Hey, I just got my May/June issue of Inside Pool in the mail, and I've just finished the column Keith wrote.
Great stuff.
Now I'm absolutely sure a book written about or even by Mr. McCready would be a must read.
Keep up the excellent work.

Keith McCready
08-21-2003, 02:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr>Great stuff.<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks for your kind words.
Earthquake

Ralph S.
08-21-2003, 05:06 PM
That was a good article and cool story Keith. Question though. Can you delve into some of the older rules that are no longer in use? I had never heard of that two shot/pushout until your column.

Keith McCready
08-21-2003, 05:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr>Question though. Can you delve into some of the older rules that are no longer in use? I had never heard of that two shot/pushout until your column.<hr /></blockquote>

I wish they played like they did back in the '70s with the two-shot/push-out rule, and back then, jump cues didn't even exist and they didn't have any seeds.

I think that they have turned the game into more of a luck game with the one-foul/ball-in-hand rule, and if you were playing two-shot/push-out rule, like they did in the recent Trump Marina 10-Ball Tournament, with a slight variation, it would be harder for a weaker player to beat you. The strength of the two-shot/push-out rule is you would play the shot to make it or you would play a safety to where the other guy would have to push out again and not have to kick.

Believe it or not, when they came out with the one-foul/ball-in-hand rule, my game went down to the 7 ball. It sounds weird, but the weaker player has a better chance with the one-foul/ball-in-hand rule (IMO). For example, you can play a perfect safety and nowadays the guy can take a jump cue and jump right over the ball and your safety wasn't worth 10 cents, or I could push out and I can either beat myself or he could take the shot and he could beat himself. Makes a lot of difference. (Only IMO)

Earthquake

Rod
08-21-2003, 06:21 PM
I wish I played like I did in the 70's. LOL Keith your right, two shot pushout was the game and a jump cue wasn't even a twinkle.

Playing two shot you could really set up a guy. Once he passes you could trap him where its difficult at best to even find a safe place to push. Or you could push to a shot you know he doesn't like but you do. Like you said the better player is going to win most times.

I quit playing for a number of years. When I come back and 1 foul was in, I had to re-learn the game. I couldn't believe how much it changed the game.

Rod

Tom_In_Cincy
08-21-2003, 08:30 PM
Two shot foul 9 ball was a great game. I think it changed in the early 80s to its present form.

One shot foul 9 ball elimimnated the spot shot. This shot was a must to master. Using the spot shot to get shape anywhere on the table was a great learning experience for me. One that I am sure newer pool players haven't had the advantage of experiencing. Too bad for them.

Keith McCready
08-21-2003, 08:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>This shot was a must to master. Using the spot shot to get shape anywhere on the table was a great learning experience for me. One that I am sure newer pool players haven't had the advantage of experiencing.<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, you're right about the spot shot. If the score was close at 9-9 or 10-10, racing to 11, that spot shot, if they are dogging it at all, they don't have to make it. That is one of the differences, at least the guy has to make a spot shot to maybe win the money, but he still has to get shape. Wish everybody thought the way you do.

Earthquake

Rod
08-21-2003, 09:08 PM
Tom,

Yep, see I forgot about the spot shot. It was a must to play position anywhere. Your right, few players today are good spot shot shooters. Well some make them ok in ring games but may have a problem with whitey. I still hit spot shots pretty good.

Rod

Hopster
08-21-2003, 09:52 PM
Rod, help me out here. Believe it or not i just started playing some nine ball, i never really cared for it and always played straights.Not that im any good at that either but thats another story. Anyway after running the table a few times i have grown to like it and the only rules i know now or have ever known are what they play on tv. I have no clue what you guys are talking about with the two push rule and the spot shot. What does the spot shot have to do with anything unless you are spotting a ball and have to shoot it from behind the head string.
Anyway, if you got few free minutes straighten me out if you will.

Rod
08-21-2003, 10:26 PM
Hopster,

The two shot push out rule is no longer in effect. That was part 80's and earlier. Don't waste your time, chances are you'll never ever play the game. The one foul ball in hand rule is what you see on TV. More commonly called Texas Express and 3 fouls in a row is loss of game. However you do have to let them know their on two before the third foul. You won't see hardly any spot shots with these rules. A spot shot was common by the old rules. If you get involved in a ring game spot shots are still common.

The game is simplified now and it may be for the best. But I think you'll still get opinions that liked the old game better, I know I did. There was no jump cues.

Rod

Hopster
08-22-2003, 12:02 AM
The two shot push out rule is no longer in effect. That was part 80's and earlier. Don't waste your time, chances are you'll never ever play the game. &lt;--Rod

Ok, ill buy that. But what about the spot shot, how did this come into play and why so much emphasis on it ?
Me, i just like to know how things used to be done as opposed to how they are done now.
Thanks in advance.

stevelomako
08-22-2003, 08:04 AM
The old and still the best rules for nine-ball:

*All balls made illegaly spotted up.

*On 1st scratch you had cue ball in hand---behind the line and if the ball you need to shoot was behind the line it spotted up.

*You could push out at any time and your opponent could shoot or have you shoot, if there was a second foul in a row---then you had ball in hand anywhere on the table---but remember any balls made illegaly were still spotted.

That's really it.

What you ended up with was a more offensive game of nine ball because you could make a ball and try to bust up clusters and problem balls without fear of being hooked and having to kick at it like nowadays, if you got hooked you pushed out. But in reality being more aggressive you ran out more and put more racks together.

Also you had to bank good because people would push out to a bank. What also came up alot was 2 balls on the spot with ball in hand anywhere so you had to bank it in the side or corner depending on if it was the head ball or bottom ball on the spot.

You had to shoot spot shots real good cause they came up alot....dam you might scratch on purpose cause a guy was horrible with spot shots. You had to be able to make them with draw (with inside and outside english) and follow (with inside and outside english).

You still kicked at balls because it would come up you might kick a ball in and have shapes but if you missed he was hooked, a 2 way shot. If you missed your opponent could push but then again so could you, it worked both ways.

You could still miss and get lucky and make a ball but you could never have someone miss and get lucky and hook you like now.

You had to use your head and think way more than now because there were so many things you could do and so many more skills to call on, not as many as one pocket but far more than nine ball today. But who wants to take the time and effort to learn all those skills when you can just make the game easier for more people, its a shame but thats what happened.

Have to stop, I could go on and on that 2 foul was, is and always will be the best way to play nine ball but its time for bed.

Hope this helps a little,
Steve

Rod
08-22-2003, 10:45 AM
Good explanation Steve. It was definitely an offensive game. No shoot and hide like it is now. It kept you on your toes thinking. In a way it was like playing chicken, I push out and dare you to take the shot. I may know your weakness or you could tempt me with a push back.

Todays game is geared for TV in part I assume. But it sure doesn't have the strategy of the old game. I guess that's why I like One hole and Golf, both are good strategic games.

Rod

Hopster
08-22-2003, 10:54 AM
Thanks Steve, now i understand. A lot more strategy involved for sure.

Ralph S.
08-22-2003, 03:53 PM
Thanks alot for your response Keith. I am looking forward to seeing you again at the DCC. Hard to believe we are this late in the year already.