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griffith_d
08-24-2003, 05:23 PM
The other night in my tournament, I was practicing playing against the semi-pro Tommy and won a few games and lately playing fairly well against him. After the tournament was over I asked if he wanted to play and give me the eight and play a race to 7,...mistake,...he took my money.

I should have asked for the break also,..that is where he really killed me,...he broke and ran 4 times. Also, I missed a couple of shots that got me in trouble.

Next time, I will ask for the 7 and the break.

How many of you have ask for less than you should have?

Griff

bolo
08-25-2003, 01:30 AM
I think you got it backwards. You should ask for more then you need and negotiate from there. It is hard to change the game once you have begun playing if you don't like the game. You are sort of obligated to play a reasonable amount, before asking for more weight. It doesn't look to good to play three games and ask for more weight, then play a few more and try to change the game again. Don't worry about looking like a lock artist, good players can often give you more weight then you would think. The 8 really is not worth much of anything, if the guy plays much better the you. Even with weight you still have to perform.

griffith_d
08-25-2003, 06:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I think you got it backwards. You should ask for more then you need and negotiate from there. It is hard to change the game once you have begun playing if you don't like the game. You are sort of obligated to play a reasonable amount, before asking for more weight. It doesn't look to good to play three games and ask for more weight, then play a few more and try to change the game again. Don't worry about looking like a lock artist, good players can often give you more weight then you would think. The 8 really is not worth much of anything, if the guy plays much better the you. Even with weight you still have to perform. <hr /></blockquote>

You're right, I should have,..next time I will against him and I have already told him during the last match. So he knows ahead of time when we go to play.

I am sure he will take me up on it.

Griff

jjinfla
08-25-2003, 06:23 AM
Ask and ye shall receive.

But be prepared to pay for what you ask - as in a higher wager.

Let us know how it turns out. Winning in practice is meaningless - much like pre-season football.

Jake

griffith_d
08-25-2003, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>
Winning in practice is meaningless - much like pre-season football.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Winning is meaningless as is losing,....but getting up a head of steam in practice, as in preseason football, I would still like to hit the ground running when it is for real.

Yep, and the bet will be higher as it should be. No risk, no gain.

Griff

UWPoolGod
08-25-2003, 01:08 PM
Yeah always start with all breaks, odd balls, stripes...all Wild of course...and two games on the wire. LOL. Negotiation could take all night. hehe

Todd

UWPoolGod
08-25-2003, 01:39 PM
The 8 really is not worth much of anything, if the guy plays much better the you. Even with weight you still have to perform. &lt;--bolo

Exactly...you still have to be able to get out from there to the 8. If you care constantly dogging the 5 or 6 and leaving the last 3 or 4 out to your opponent, you are in for a long night. Especially without the breaks.

HalSmith
08-25-2003, 02:03 PM
Dean, which Tommy were you playing ? Was it Milburn?---Smitty

Buzzsaw
08-25-2003, 03:54 PM
Yeah, sometimes those spots can really turn around and bite you. I saw a game once where one player gave the other player a "spot" that all he had to do was hit the nine ball against the back rail anytime during the game. Normal nine ball rules other than that. The guy getting the spot lost a ton of cash because he spent most of his time trying to hit the nine ball instead of just playing his normal game. Sometimes your ego just gets in the way.

jjinfla
08-25-2003, 04:06 PM
As I see it, the problem with playing someone who is really, really, really, good, and can break and run 3-4 racks then unless you can do the same thing an 8-ball spot is not really much, or the 7 for that matter or the 6. Because if he can run racks then anytime you miss he gets out and you lose. The more balls you make before you miss the easier you make it for him. But that is just my observation. I'd go for the the last 3, or the last 4. Unless of course you are a top player. But then if you are I wouldn't expect you would have asked the question in the first place. You would know the answer.

Jake

griffith_d
08-25-2003, 06:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HalSmith:</font><hr> Dean, which Tommy were you playing ? Was it Milburn?---Smitty <hr /></blockquote>

I am not sure of his last name,...but it could be. He has the smoothest stroke I have ever played against.

Griff

griffith_d
08-25-2003, 06:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> As I see it, the problem with playing someone who is really, really, really, good, and can break and run 3-4 racks then unless you can do the same thing an 8-ball spot is not really much, or the 7 for that matter or the 6. Because if he can run racks then anytime you miss he gets out and you lose. The more balls you make before you miss the easier you make it for him. But that is just my observation. I'd go for the the last 3, or the last 4. Unless of course you are a top player. But then if you are I wouldn't expect you would have asked the question in the first place. You would know the answer.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Well, I am a rookie at playing the "ask for a spot" game,...I usually just play someone straight up or not at all. It has only taken one match to know what to ask next time,...even though I lost, it was a good education(call it a cheap lesson) and I learned something for next time.

I gave up gambling a long time ago and swore that I would never do it again,...but I have gotten the bug again and slowly playing people I know.

Griff

HalSmith
08-25-2003, 07:21 PM
Dean, if he was a real quiet kind of guy about 5-8 or 10 looks harmless unless you count his cue stick that could have been Milburn. and yes he is dangerous.---Smitty

griffith_d
08-25-2003, 07:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HalSmith:</font><hr> Dean, if he was a real quiet kind of guy about 5-8 or 10 looks harmless unless you count his cue stick that could have been Milburn. and yes he is dangerous.---Smitty <hr /></blockquote>

That is him,..going bald, does not talk much,...his cue does all of the talking. He works in tinting industry for car windows.

Griff

HalSmith
08-26-2003, 04:14 AM
Dean, sorry you had to meet Tommy like you did. Yes thats Tommy Milburn , I think he just came in 3rd or 4th out in Calif.in some tournament. He's won that one of Dennis's at Ledgends before. His dad is the Milburn that does all the pinstriping on cars. Hey at least you played a worldbeater with some class not some loud mouth jerk.---Smitty

griffith_d
08-26-2003, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HalSmith:</font><hr> Dean, sorry you had to meet Tommy like you did. Yes thats Tommy Milburn , I think he just came in 3rd or 4th out in Calif.in some tournament. He's won that one of Dennis's at Ledgends before. His dad is the Milburn that does all the pinstriping on cars. Hey at least you played a worldbeater with some class not some loud mouth jerk.---Smitty <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Tommy is a nice guy,..we usually play against each other every other Tuesday. In the weekly 9 ball tournament I have won games but not a match against him,...but a few times I shot myself in the foot.

He told me that he won the Legends tournament awhile back,...his is the best player in PH. When we see him come in, we know who is going to win. There is only one other guy that can beat him, but not very often. Tommy has to win 4 or 5 when everyone else only has a race to 3.

I PM'ed you and you never anwered back about playing on Tuesday,..let's get together and you can show me how to play 1P.

Griff

HalSmith
08-26-2003, 08:09 AM
Dean, sorry I don't think I got the pm. But I sure didn't mean to ignore you. And yes let's get together, I'll be at Legends this weekenday for sure. or I can come over your way. as long as we play on 9 foots with simonis its fine with me.--Smitty

nhp
08-26-2003, 09:02 AM
Are you playing this guy for the money, or the practice? If you wanna make some cash, than try to get more weight than you need. If you actually wanna improve your game, play him some cheap sets even or with one or two games on the wire or something. It's basically like paying for lessons.

griffith_d
08-26-2003, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Are you playing this guy for the money, or the practice? If you wanna make some cash, than try to get more weight than you need. If you actually wanna improve your game, play him some cheap sets even or with one or two games on the wire or something. It's basically like paying for lessons.

<hr /></blockquote>

Basically, it was for practice and to see how close I could get,...it was for cheap, as we have known each other for awhile and I approached him.

I will probably see him again tonight at the tournament.

Griff

griffith_d
08-26-2003, 10:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HalSmith:</font><hr> Dean, sorry I don't think I got the pm. But I sure didn't mean to ignore you. And yes let's get together, I'll be at Legends this weekenday for sure. or I can come over your way. as long as we play on 9 foots with simonis its fine with me.--Smitty <hr /></blockquote>

Ok, I will see what this weekend holds and maybe I can come to Legends for the 1P lesson,...I have only played once there against Jerry and he killed me.

Griff

bolo
08-26-2003, 11:07 AM
I think, and of course it is just my opinion, that is an untruth that is often repeated. You will certainly become a better player if you can be in the company of good players, but just gambling with players that are better then you and constantly losing money to them, won't fast track you to improvement. It may give you a lack of respect for the money, but that may be about it. It is not a substitute for a proper lesson. I remember when I was beginning to play, the players I thought played so well, really, now that I look back, were not very good at all and gave me a lot of bad advice. Just because someone plays better then you, does not mean they have anything good to teach you. They may have just been playing longer and of course can beat you, but may not have a clue about the game. At least a few lessons from a proven instructor at some point is a better investment.

griffith_d
08-26-2003, 11:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I think, and of course it is just my opinion, that is an untruth that is often repeated. You will certainly become a better player if you can be in the company of good players, but just gambling with players that are better then you and constantly losing money to them, won't fast track you to improvement. It may give you a lack of respect for the money, but that may be about it. It is not a substitute for a proper lesson. I remember when I was beginning to play, the players I thought played so well, really were not really very good at all and gave me a lot of bad advice. Just because someone plays better then you, does not mean they have anything good to teach you. They may have just been playing longer and of course can beat you, but may not have a clue about the game. At least a few lessons from a proven instructor at some point is a better investment. <hr /></blockquote>

You have a valid point,...but the lesson learned may not always be about how to play better, per se, but maybe another aspect of the game or something learned that may not have been verbalized but it was picked just by watching the person play.

There is a lot to be said for watching the perfect stroke compared to someone telling you and then just watching you and trying to correct it. Granted, my lesson from Scott Lee has been invaluable and professional lessons will always be a necessary, IMO, evil and I look forward to the next one. Obviously, not all good players can teach, and not all teachers can play(at a high level).

But, lessons learned are not always formal, guided, or even intended,..but multiple points of view/lessons is the best medicine for an education.

Griff