View Full Version : Your 8 ball break: Draw or follow ?

08-25-2003, 11:08 AM
I've experimented at length using draw & follow. I believe most pro's use draw, but I seem to draw it too hard & scratch at the end of the table opposite the rack frequently. I have recently been more satisfied with a high english break, as the ball stops & then continues through the rack - seem to have more cue ball control in the end. Just curious what the more experienced folks do ... thanks.


08-25-2003, 11:21 AM
Neither, flat line or you could call it incoming.


08-25-2003, 11:29 AM
I break with a TINY bit of draw if I'm breaking from or near center table. If I'm breaking from the rails I use low inside english to keep the ball on the table.

08-25-2003, 11:39 AM
Cue Ball CONTROL & the use of draw or follow are not synonomous. The nominal spot for the Cue Tip to strike the Cue is somewhere between Center Ball & about 1/8 above Center Ball. That creates the Stop-Action on the Cue Ball when it rebounds off the lead ball at Impact. The rebound is going to be about 15-18 inches. If the Cue Ball rebounds back down the line you used for aiming, you acheived a SQUARE HIT & transferred all of the Cue Ball's ENERGY into the rack... Great Shot.

There is the Second Ball Break in Eight Ball where Draw comes into effect, but it's a DANGEROUS Break Shot & is executed without control.

Bert Kinister has a Video out giving Instructions about the Soft Break, it is a very interesting & knowledgeable Training Tape.

The Break Shot is difficult to Master, but very rewarding when you have a grasp of the mechanics required to repeat the the shot time after time, even when Cold...

08-25-2003, 01:05 PM
I have a break spot for 7,8 or 9 foot tables. 9 I break just off center from the headspot and aim dead on with just above center. On an 8 I break from the rail straight to the head ball with just above center. On a 7 I do the side break with low left at the 2nd or 3rd ball and break the 8 in the opposite side. Spreads em out on the rebound.

08-25-2003, 01:11 PM
That break on the 7' with low left is made from the left rail I assume...

In my case the 2 ball works but the third ball always send me in the pocket for a scratch...

My 7 footer break is from the head rail about 10" left of the spot, head ball as hard as I can...

08-25-2003, 01:17 PM
Yeah if the side break isn't working I love that spot as well. Can really cram em from that close.

That lower left was from the right side...drawing it over to the side rail by the conrner pocket and then the running english spins it back into the 8 kicking it towards the opposite side. You can't hit it super hard or it'll fly off the table...have to control the ball more.

08-25-2003, 01:27 PM
I use something similar in 9-ball... it's a nine-on-the-snap or die break... looks like this...

%AN7O5%BL3U9%CG3O4%DH8G2%EL8Q8%FI9U3%GG6K6%HM5M1%I I5O6%JB7B7
%K[4\4%LB6B6%MB7\0%NB8\0%OB3B9%Pn5W5%WP4O7%Xm5W4%YM7D 9%ZO4O2

If the 9 isn't in the way, I'm likely to scratch, hence the Die part...

I'll try that when on the hill with a big lead...

08-25-2003, 01:35 PM
Yeah I have seen people do that...I could always get a better spread trying to get almost dead on and making the 1 in the opposite side. Here's the 8ball break..I only use it on 7 footers cause there is less length for the spin to die by the time it gets there.

%AV3Q6%BL6W3%CF3M5%DU1I0%EP3U5%FI4Q9%GG6O9%HL8O4%I N7W7%JO4H3
%KD5R9%LE0J3%MK0T0%NF2U8%ON0N6%Ph2D8%UY7Z0%VM7P2%W O4M7%Xg3F2

08-25-2003, 01:38 PM
I believe in APA you would win on this break right ?

I play VNEA and all it gives me is a notch in my stats and it cost me a buck to respot it /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

08-25-2003, 01:42 PM
To tell you the truth I don't know how that works. I have yet to play in an APA league...starting in one in three weeks. Guess I had better ask before I get to the first match. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would hate to think that you would lose on that break. I mean if you "unluckily" make it on a straight to head break by it caroming of 12 balls and it counts as a loss I would be mad.

08-25-2003, 01:47 PM
Not sure... I think APA is a win unless you pocket another ball or something to that effect which I believe is ridculous.

The VNEA here is run by two coin table suppliers, so it is in there interest that we slam in another loonie to get the 8 out and keep playing. VNEA rules that the 8 ball is just another ball on the break but they allow the breaker to spot it or break again. In case of a foul on the break and the 8 in, it is the opponent choice to break again or spot the 8.

08-25-2003, 03:08 PM
Me too. No draw, no follow. I stun the cue ball into the headball and have a predictable angle of deflection after contact, barring kisses. The cueball is sliding.

08-25-2003, 06:26 PM
I break from the right side using low left english. The cue generally hits the rack draws into the rail and back into the pack again.

08-26-2003, 09:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> I believe in APA you would win on this break right ?
<hr /></blockquote>Yeah.

08-26-2003, 10:01 AM
I alternate between two basic breaks.

1. From about one-half to one diamond to the side of the head spot, I hit it centerball and straight into the head ball. On a bar table, the wrist of my bridge hand will be resting on the rail. On an 8 or 9-footer, I'll be a little more out into the cloth.

2. From near the side rail, I play to just miss the head ball (hit second ball), and use low outside. I normally break from the right, so this would mean low right english. The cue rebounds into the right side rail, and the english straightens out the rebound so it hits the pack again instead of trying to scratch cross-corner.

Break #1 scatters the balls best (leaves fewer clusters) and nearly always keeps the cue on the table. Break #2 seems to make a ball more often, but comes with more risk of a scratch or jumping the cue. I normally start with break #1 since I have better cueball control, then if I'm not making a ball I switch.

On a very slow table where the balls aren't breaking well, I will sometimes use a variation of break #2 where I hit the third ball. Note that a third-ball break is legal in BCA and VNEA, but outlawed in APA for some obscure reason. But very few APA players know this rule, and it's easy to argue that you nicked the second ball first anyway.

I recently reviewed tapes of our VNEA city singles championships. On 7-foot bar tables with fast cloth, I exceeded 50% success in making a ball on the break for two days of play. In one race-to-5, I made a ball on every break. I used #1 exclusively. The format of this tourney was alternating break rack-your-own, so I never got slugged. The set where I made a ball on every break included four breaks.

The percentage is lower on larger or slower tables.


08-26-2003, 10:06 AM
Note that a third-ball break is legal in BCA and VNEA, but outlawed in APA for some obscure reason<hr /></blockquote>

What obscure reason?

What reason could there be.


08-26-2003, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote Spiderman:</font><hr>Note that a third-ball break is legal in BCA and VNEA, but outlawed in APA for some obscure reason<hr /></blockquote>What reason could there be.<hr /></blockquote>Hi Qtec,

I believe the reason is the belief that hitting the front of the rack results in more equally spread balls. When I played APA, we had to invoke that rule on a (the only one I ever saw) blatantly wicked sand-bagger. It took him several tries, hitting the side of the rack, to even get four balls to the rail. His looked like a modified straight pool break. While playing our 7, he was trying to make a great big globbing mess of balls so that he could spend his time racking up innings while playing safe while getting all his little ducks ready. I was new to the game at the time, and didn't appreciate that tactic like I think I would now.