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miko
08-25-2003, 11:03 PM
can anyone tell me what's the difference between a capped and collared ivory joint in terms of its playability? what are the advantages and disadvantages they have over each other? many thanks

BLACKHEART
08-26-2003, 08:15 AM
1st of all, it's my opinion that an ivory joint, of any kind, doesn't affect the play at all. I've made Qs with sleeves of ivory & with the capped type of joint. I can tell you,that ivory is much more suseptable to cracking, than any of the plastics that are used for joints. The sleeve type is the MOST likely to break or crack. An ivory ferrule on the other hand is more likely to change the hit of a Q...JER

miko
08-26-2003, 11:09 AM
Hi Jer, thanks for the reply. Did I understand u correctly that the joint material(whether ivory or phenolic or stainless) doesnt affect the way the cue play? or are u saying that a collared ivory joint would play the same as a capped ivory joint? thanks

BLACKHEART
08-27-2003, 09:35 AM
I think a good basic rule is that, harder matierials whether for joints or ferrules, tend to give a Q a harder hit. The BLACK HEART Q I'm presently playing with has an ivory ferrule,sleeved ivory joint, ivory inlays & an ivory butt cap. The only ivory componant that effects the hit is the ferrule...JER

Spencer
08-27-2003, 10:43 AM
Blackheart, are you saying that the type of joint will not affect the hit of the cue? I have always been told and I have personally noticed that most piloted stainless joints (and also piloted ivory joints) do not provide as much feel or feedback as flat faced ivory of phenolic joints. However if you really have to force a ball or use a very hard stroke on a shot, I have noticed some flat faced joints react differently. Maybe this was caused by shaft taper and other factors, but it would make sense for a flat faced ivory or phenolic joint to tranfer more energy back into the butt of the cue and produce more feel wouldn't it?

Spencer

Cueless Joey
08-27-2003, 10:58 AM
Imo, capped ivory joints are more durable. The walls of the collar will less likely break as the 3/16" or thicker cap will absorb most of the impact. Of course, the cap has to be flush with the top of the collar tenon.
Ted Harris sleeves his ivory with phenolic. I've seen a Joss West with this method as well. But, most I've seen are just uncapped ivory collar without the phenolic sleeve. And they do tend to break. Buckhorn collar I think is better if an uncapped collar is desired. Buckhorn is more durable than the very fragile ivory imo.

magicman
08-27-2003, 10:29 PM
get a soft meucci or preditor ferrule or shaft and problems are solved.

BLACKHEART
08-27-2003, 11:34 PM
Spencer...You can shoot with a Meucci with a flat faced soft plastic joint or a joss with a steel joint. you can't draw any conclusions about which joint plays better, because they also have very different ferrules & shaft tapers. I can only repeat that harder materials tend to deliver harder hits,than do soft materials...JER

Jimmy B
08-28-2003, 12:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> 1st of all, it's my opinion that an ivory joint, of any kind, doesn't affect the play at all.

Hey Jer I agree that other things effect the hit more, Ferrule, and tip being 1 and 2 IMO but do you really believe that the joint has NO effect? JB

BLACKHEART
08-28-2003, 09:36 AM
Folks we're beat'n a dead horse here. A joint made from a harder material, will give a HARDER feedback to your hand &amp; make a louder noise.....THAT'S IT. The joint won't make it easier to draw the ball or apply more engish. The joint only has one job, that is to hold the 2 pieces together. That's all I have to say about it. THANKS...JER