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Bassn7
08-26-2003, 10:18 AM
Just a few items that I'm logging into my notebook of "lessons learned" from my Vegas trip:
1) The "7s" here are actually about "15s". This is important to remember.
2) You can NEVER scratch on the break. This is so devastating you can't imagine.
3) Most matches are won due to multiple racks that are run out. You've got to consistantly run 2 or 3 racks at a time.
4) You've got to master kick shots. Not just hitting them, but knowing what side of the ball you are hitting them.
5) Vegas is still Vegas . . . what a blast!

Eric.
08-26-2003, 10:24 AM
I'm guessing you're talking about 8 ball. I agree that barbox 8 ball is all about "run-n-gun". You aint winning by dinking and ducking. I'll leave this open for Fred Agnir and his sparring partner to debate this.


Eric >stirring the pot

Rod
08-26-2003, 11:45 AM
Eric,

There isn't any debate. It's break and run. Yes there is safety play but shoot and duck isn't going to get you very far. The strong players run out, it's just that simple.

One of my last team matches in Vegas there was 9 break and runs from the very begining. Thats just the first 9 games. The guy that broke, run out. It is over 30% of the match. Of course there were lots more. As a random count I'd say well over 60% were run outs from the break.

Almost everyone who is around for the last day or two are run out players. If you dink your a dead duck. LOL

Another thing I find in the advanced stages is all breaks are center ball dead into the one, no side breaks. Of course this is BCA but I doubt it matters. Very few, if any, strong players aren't going to gamble on a side break.

You got to play at the National level, there are a lot of champions. The good ole local dink boys that are APA 7's won't have a chance. There is a vast difference between 7's at a national event, I'm sure.

Rod

cycopath
08-26-2003, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>You got to play at the National level, there are a lot of champions. The good ole local dink boys that are APA 7's won't have a chance. There is a vast difference between 7's at a national event, I'm sure.
<hr /></blockquote>I've often wondered that same thing. What is the difference between a local APA7 and an APA7 at the national event? Would a national event APA7 literally be an A ranked player?

To anyone that's been out to Vegas during the 8ball events:

I've been told that most of the teams at the NTC mainly play their SL4 and SL3s. Is that true?

Eric.
08-26-2003, 12:07 PM
Thanks, Rod. That's been my experience too.

One side note, I've seen some people still using that side break where the rules state that an 8 on the break is a win.


Eric

Aboo
08-26-2003, 12:36 PM
"The good ole local dink boys that are APA 7's won't have a chance. There is a vast difference between 7's at a national event, I'm sure."

Personally, I don't understand that statement /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif If a "local APA 7" is on a team that wins the city tourny, he is then a National APA 7, right? So, does his game elevate THAT much? Or do they just sand-bag THAT much? And, is this the team events, or singles? On a team, no matter how good your seven is, you still have 4 more matches... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Justin &lt;- good ole local dink boy, not a 7, yet.

Rod
08-26-2003, 12:55 PM
First of I have never played APA 8 ball, not that it matters. Keep in mind, 7 is the highest ranking. All 7's are not created equal. A 7 from Brookfeild Mo, surley won't play as well as 7's from Kansas City, MO. Anyway I'd bet the best 7's are A++ players, while the avg 7 might be a B player.

Rod

Fred Agnir
08-26-2003, 01:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr> Personally, I don't understand that statement /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif If a "local APA 7" is on a team that wins the city tourny, he is then a National APA 7, right? So, does his game elevate THAT much? Or do they just sand-bag THAT much? <hr /></blockquote> I guess you don't understand the statement.

APA SL-7 is the highest ranking in APA 8-ball, so there's a huge range of skill levels within that one level. A weak SL-7 could be a B- player, while a strong SL-7 could be a AAA player. It's got nothing to do with sandbagging. I'm not even sure what "sandbagging" an SL-7 could be doing.

Fred

UWPoolGod
08-26-2003, 01:11 PM
Yeah I have not played in an APA league yet. I start one in a few weeks, I will venture to guess that I will be a 6/7 after the first few weeks. But when I was watching a guy play the other day, who was supposedly a 7, he couldn't string balls together..didn't play safes. Yet he was rated a 7. Compared to him I would definitely be a 7, but against the best 7's (or Vegas 15's LOL) I could be a 5 next to them. Seems to me that there are just not enough levels...or an accurate way to classify all of them.

Aboo
08-26-2003, 02:19 PM
I understand what an sl7 is, I play APA 8-ball. I also know there is a large range of skill within that particular skill level.

My question was, what makes a "National sl7" better than a "good ole local dink sl7". Since they are techincally the exact same player, one just happened to be on a team that won a city tournament... right?

Snyder1
08-26-2003, 02:47 PM
I play APA 8 ball &amp; lets just say, I'm not a 7. From what I've seen, there are two 7's in my league, and I take offense to a reference someone made as to the "good ole local dink sl7". Gentlemen &amp; Ladies ... when you honestly earn a "7" APA rating, there aint no such thing as a dink "7" ...

JS

Rod
08-26-2003, 03:11 PM
Snyder,

Everyone earns their wings, no doubt about it. But lets face facts, the vast difference between a begining 7 and a 7 that is or near pro level is not a comparison. That's what it would look like on a pool table, no comparison. Pardon my dink, maybe I should have said a weak or less experienced 7.

Rod

jjinfla
08-26-2003, 03:35 PM
Quote Rod: I'd bet the best 7's are A++ players, while the avg 7 might be a B player.
_______
The low end 7 can be just a C player. I know a couple 7's here and that's all they are. But most are probably B+ or better. There is no top limit of a 7's skill with the exception that Pros are not allowed in the APA, but if Bustamante was allowed to play in APA 8-ball he would be a 7. Somehow I really can't see a lot of break and runs in APA 8-ball Nationals. You still have to play your 4's,3's and 2's. Maybe in BCA because that's where you find the better players. Especially in the Nationals. My friend just returned from Vegas where his team finished 129th and the team that put them out had three of their members moved up in SL and as a result they could not field a team for their next match. That's the bad part of the APA - a person gets punished for improving. Jake

Rod
08-26-2003, 04:42 PM
That's about what I figured Jake. Team competition, run-outs would be low. I am assuming they have an open division with heads up play? At any rate, getting better seems discouraged and even more so at the Nationals. LOL

I don't like the format, I have heard a lot of complaints here and elsewhere. That being the case there has to be several problems. If people want to deal with it fine, just be aware it exists. It is rare I ever hear complaints about the BCA. However at the nationals you better have a strong team or be a strong individual player if you want to cover expenses. OK, some people just want to play. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rod

jjinfla
08-26-2003, 06:42 PM
Rod, I think the design and intent of the APA is that it is more of an introduction to the newer and/or weaker players and ideally a team will have one 7 who more or less guides the rest of the team. In theory as the players increase their skills their SL goes up and they reach a point where they can't field a team due to the 23 point limit. At that time the players are supposed to break up into two or more teams getting more newer players to join the APA. Not too good if you are on a team that just won a session and are elligible to compete for the trip to Vegas but you can't compete because your guys are too good and you have to split the team. But with all their faults the APA sure does have a large attraction. The LO's here in central Florida started in 1999 and they have really built it up. And as hard as it is to get to Vegas I personally know quite a few who have made the trip there. But I think most of them play for the pure fun, a night out, without carrying whether they win or go to Vegas. I think that they had about 525 8-ball teams there last week. And over 200,000 members in the APA. So it must be working. Jake

Tom_In_Cincy
08-26-2003, 07:10 PM
This is exactly what I would expect.

SL7s do vary in actual experience and competition skills at the national level. Even at the regional levels when 7s match up, it could possibly be less than 4 innings for a race to 5 or 6.

Fred Agnir
08-26-2003, 07:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr>

My question was, what makes a "National sl7" better than a "good ole local dink sl7". <hr /></blockquote> I think the term used was just to illustrate the shell shock that a big fish from a little pond will experience when he goes to the bigger pond.

Also, the "National 7s" was really describing the SL-7's that are still left at the end of their divisions tournament. The strong 7's, if you will. If a "good ole local dink SL-7" actually makes it that far into the tournament, then he's probably one of the National 7s (which in no way is an official title as far as I've ever heard, in case anyone is getting confused).

The rest of the shmucks that go two-and-out either got bad draws, or are just good local players who can't compete against the big guns from other areas.

Fred &lt;~~~ shmuck

Fred Agnir
08-26-2003, 07:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Just a few items that I'm logging into my notebook of "lessons learned" from my Vegas trip:
1) The "7s" here are actually about "15s". This is important to remember. <hr /></blockquote>One of the APA's biggest downfalls, IMO. How a league after all these years continue to break down the skill levels in to 6 levels is nutty. There's 6 or more levels just in the SL-7 ranks.

[ QUOTE ]
2) You can NEVER scratch on the break. This is so devastating you can't imagine. <hr /></blockquote> I can imagine. Many of us who have gone to a national amateur have seen it up close and personal.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Most matches are won due to multiple racks that are run out. You've got to consistantly run 2 or 3 racks at a time.<hr /></blockquote> Winner break would be very cool at the BCA Nationals, but you'd see 5-0 matches with the guy who lost the flip never seeing a ball. Especially in the Masters Division.

BTW, I read this last statement that I quoted to mean that you're still talking about the SL-7s.

Fred &lt;~~~ absolutely stunned at the run-n-gun play /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Fred Agnir
08-26-2003, 08:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> I'm guessing you're talking about 8 ball. I agree that barbox 8 ball is all about "run-n-gun". You aint winning by dinking and ducking. I'll leave this open for Fred Agnir and his sparring partner to debate this.<hr /></blockquote>I'm amazed there'd be a debate at all (at the higer levels), considering people who've been there report what they saw.

Fred &lt;~~~ not debating /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

dardusm
08-26-2003, 10:54 PM
Another point is the overall strength of the league. If there are several good players participating in the league then it would tougher to become a seven. Likewise, in a weaker league i.e. fewer good players obtaining seven status would become easier. This might account for some of the discrepency in the nationals. (I know what I mean but may not have said it right /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Jimmy B
08-27-2003, 02:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr>

Personally, I don't understand that statement /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif If a "local APA 7" is on a team that wins the city tourny, he is then a National APA 7, right? So, does his game elevate THAT much? Or do they just sand-bag THAT much?

How would a 7 sandbag???? Maybe I don't understand you. In 8-ball 7 is the tops and as far as I can tell they are talking about 8-ball and not 9. JB

Jimmy B
08-27-2003, 02:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Quote Rod: the team that put them out had three of their members moved up in SL and as a result they could not field a team for their next match. That's the bad part of the APA - a person gets punished for improving. Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Jake do you really believe that? I mean do you really think that people got punished for improving and not for sandbagging? They just magically got better? First let me say the APA system is far from perfect, but it's impossible to handicap people into just 6 SL's and they need to move people up they precieve to be cheaters. I love how you always hear 2 stories, 1 is that all the 4's out there shoot like 7's and the other is we got punished because we improved. Bullshit you got caught sandbagging. I'm not a fan of the APA because they give the LO's to much room to manipulate the computer program and they all learn sooner or later that by moving players up it's good for business and it's all about the $$$$ money side of it. But they do try their best to keep it fare out in Vegas and if someone get's moved up because they shot well it will often times be the right move. JB

pooltchr
08-27-2003, 06:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dardusm:</font><hr> Another point is the overall strength of the league. If there are several good players participating in the league then it would tougher to become a seven. Likewise, in a weaker league i.e. fewer good players obtaining seven status would become easier. This might account for some of the discrepency in the nationals. (I know what I mean but may not have said it right /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif) <hr /></blockquote>
You hit the nail on the head. I play on an in-house division where the room owner is a sl-7. This division is made up with a lot of young players, new players, and lower skill level players. This guy dominates the division because there are few players that match up with him. Yet, most of his games go 3 or 4 innings so he is NOT running racks. He's just better than his competition. I have seen players from across town that are also sl-7 in a tougher division that would give this guy 2 games of 8-ball in a race to 6 and wax him. Skill levels are all relative to those you regularly compete with. The reverse is also true. A sl-2 in a very strong division might play like a 3 or 4 in a weaker division.

jjinfla
08-27-2003, 07:29 AM
Quote Jimmy B:
Jake do you really believe that? I mean do you really think that people got punished for improving and not for sandbagging? They just magically got better? First let me say the APA system is far from perfect, but it's impossible to handicap people into just 6 SL's and they need to move people up they precieve to be cheaters. I love how you always hear 2 stories, 1 is that all the 4's out there shoot like 7's and the other is we got punished because we improved. Bullshit you got caught sandbagging. I'm not a fan of the APA because they give the LO's to much room to manipulate the computer program and they all learn sooner or later that by moving players up it's good for business and it's all about the $$$$ money side of it. But they do try their best to keep it fare out in Vegas and if someone get's moved up because they shot well it will often times be the right move. JB <hr /></blockquote>

JB - I really didn't mean to restrict what I was saying to just the team that got to Vegas. And for all we know maybe all those guys just played the game of their life when it counted. But I really was referring to a team that is playing their session and all the members are really trying hard to improve and then at the end of the 16 weeks they actually do get better and all the players have moved up 1 or 2 in SL's and they find that now when it counts they can't fill a team. (That happened to our 8-ball team in 1999.) And it is too late to find new players with lower handicaps. They are just SOL. So, of course players sandbag. Or are they sandbagging? Or just playing smart? Look what happened to Eddie Felson when he didn't sandbag. LOL. At least that team did get to go to Vegas for six nights. And the team that I know that got beat by them didn't care because they too are sandbaggers. The other team was just better at it. But they were happy with the six nights in Vegas. On the other hand we have a guy on our 9-ball team who is locked in as a 5 and really should be a 4. And another team has a guy who is an 8 and he never got to play and finally had to quit the team. When the system is not perfect, don't expect perfection from the participants. It's just a game. And like all games strategy is very important. Jake---can't take APA 9-ball seriously - win some lose some, have fun, drink a beer - it's a lark.

08-27-2003, 11:15 AM

Rod
08-27-2003, 11:34 AM
Now if that was true, it would be the biggest laugh of the year. Well it would be for me anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif No way that can happen, ok your good stand over here, ok your not so good stand in this line. LOL

That would be admitting there system doesn't work, which it doesn't. If their going to have ratings, extend it from 2 to 12 or there abouts.

Rod

Fred Agnir
08-27-2003, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> It was my understanding that the weak 7s are grouped together and the strong 7s are grouped together, in the regional tournaments as well as in Vegas. Thus, if a 7 were to sandbag and run his/her innings up, they would have less competion in Vegas <hr /></blockquote>How would anyone know what a weak 7 or a strong 7 was? If that were the case, why wouldn't there just be an SL-8 for 8-ball?

Fred &lt;~~~ looking for the lower group

Iowashark
08-27-2003, 11:56 AM
I personally think that the handicap rating system in APA not only alters how people play the game, but it also makes it hard for the people who don't care about innings to enjoy the game if they know their opponent isn't playing how they would if there was say $100 on the line. APA is too full of politics, and my team will never play APA again because of the bull***t you have to put up with all year long.

datplayer
08-27-2003, 12:11 PM
Heck, not just in 8-ball, but even more in 9-ball. Our best player from our city, who's a 9, lost in a mini-tournament to another 9 with the score 76-8. Yep, beat the guy unmercifully with 4 straight break and runs on those 7 foot tables. Talk about a difference in skill levels...

jjinfla
08-27-2003, 12:29 PM
Sounds like your guy just fell apart. If the other guy broke and ran 4 racks that's only 40 points. Then it was your guy's turn to run some racks. That's what 9's are supposed to do. But do these 9's ever get to play during the session? That only leaves 14 points for the rest of the team. Or can a 9 go to Vegas without a team and enter the mini singles tournaments? Jake

Wally_in_Cincy
08-27-2003, 12:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> ....can a 9 go to Vegas without a team and enter the mini singles tournaments? Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Yes. They have minis for all skill levels. I wanted to try to get in a couple but my girlfriend's team kept winning so I wanted to watch them instead.

She and I wanted to try a scotch doubles mini Monday but the skill level limits were 11 and 14 (8-ball). We woulda got creamed.

Aboo
08-27-2003, 12:58 PM
I agree that the handi-cap system for the APA is broken and it forces folks to sand-bag. It is also a business and they keep it that way to keep folks recruiting and bringing in new members. This generates more money for them and more money for the pool-hall owners.

I just wish there was an in-house BCA league that I could "graduate" to when I've learned all I can from the APA league in my area /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Aboo &lt;- Has never bagged a game in his LIFE, and is moving up because of it /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Iowashark
08-27-2003, 01:05 PM
There's a league up here in Iowa that is a weekly alternating league, alternates weekly from BCA to VNEA, sanctioning the players for both state tournaments. And in my opinion, playing in BCA and VNEA leagues before I had ever played in APA, it wasn't hard at all to give up the APA league after my first year in it. The chances of reaching Vegas may be easier in APA, but it's not entirely worth the year of sloppy, sandbagging, pool playing.

Aboo
08-27-2003, 01:10 PM
It's only sloppy sand-bagging pool if you play it that way /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I enjoy the APA because I like to play pool. I've never been to Vegas, and I might never go. But I have fun every week and I'm improving. I'd like to play in a BCA league eventually, not because I think the APA is sub-par, but because the BCA is reported to have stiffer competition. And to get to the "next level" in any sport, you have to compete against stronger opponents.

Iowashark
08-27-2003, 01:22 PM
And that is also another difference between the 2 leagues. In APA you're generally playing other players with similar handicaps and playing abilities. In BCA you play everyone, from their best player to their worst. And when I mentioned sloppy playing and sandbagging, I'm not talking about myself...I always play to win, I don't care how about innings, I care about my win/loss ratio. But I hate playing against players who I know are better than I am, but dragging it out more innings, because they are afraid of jumping to a 7.

Fred Agnir
08-27-2003, 01:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Sounds like your guy just fell apart. If the other guy broke and ran 4 racks that's only 40 points. Then it was your guy's turn to run some racks. <hr /></blockquote>
I think you're making an assumption that the guy who didn't run 4 racks somehow had more open looks. It also seems evident that the guy who didn't run 4 racks normally doesn't run 4 racks.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't normally run 4 racks

Eric.
08-27-2003, 01:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> It was my understanding that the weak 7s are grouped together and the strong 7s are grouped together, in the regional tournaments as well as in Vegas. Thus, if a 7 were to sandbag and run his/her innings up, they would have less competion in Vegas <hr /></blockquote>


Whitewolf,

Are you basing this on any fact or is it all hearsay &amp; various player urban legends? I'm not trying to bash you, but I think that you couldn't be more wrong.

I have a friend that is an APA League Operator, whom I tried to verify this with, who laughed at me. Also, I played in his APA league for a short time (to go to Vegas), to play in the mini's. In August of 2001, in Vegas, there was absolutely no distinction between a "high 7" vs. a "low 7", with regards towards tourney grouping. A 7 is a 7, period. There are no separate groups. I'm sure some people here with more APA experience will substantiate this, also.

Personally, I feel the APA system can use some tweeking. I heard alot of people complaining about the ratings. I was rated as a 5. Another player, who I give the 7 out, was rated as a 7. But hey, if it's working...


Eric &gt;will take action playing as a 5 (APA#07105074)

Wally_in_Cincy
08-27-2003, 01:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> ....A 7 is a 7, period.....

<font color="blue">Yep. </font color>

I was rated as a 5. Another player, who I give the 7 out, was rated as a 7. ......

<font color="blue">Thus your desire to play in "5 and under" minis /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Eric.
08-27-2003, 02:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> ....A 7 is a 7, period.....

<font color="blue">Yep. </font color>

I was rated as a 5. Another player, who I give the 7 out, was rated as a 7. ......

<font color="blue">Thus your desire to play in "5 and under" minis /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Well, truth be known, I'm not exactly a killer, I can play some, but have some dog in me too. Also, the 7 I'm talking about is probably a weaker 7. But I will play some 7's with the 5-3 game spot /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Eric &gt;just love to play

Scott Lee
08-27-2003, 07:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> That's about what I figured Jake. Team competition, run-outs would be low. I am assuming they have an open division with heads up play? At any rate, getting better seems discouraged and even more so at the Nationals. LOL

I don't like the format, I have heard a lot of complaints here and elsewhere. That being the case there has to be several problems. If people want to deal with it fine, just be aware it exists. It is rare I ever hear complaints about the BCA. However at the nationals you better have a strong team or be a strong individual player if you want to cover expenses. OK, some people just want to play. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Rod...As a former APA league operator, I understand how the APA thinks and works as well as anyone else here. I agree with everyone that there is a statistical difference between SL7's, in terms of experience and actual skill. The ranges put out by Fred are VERY accurate, imo. The APA is an amateur league DESIGNED for beginners! The backbone of the league (with it's TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND weekly players) are the 2's, 3's, and 4's. APA does not give two winks about the 7's. They do not sponsor any kind of national tournament for 7's. They DO have the APA National Amateur Championship, that is open to anyone, whether you are APA or not. That tournament pays NO prize money, just a nice trophy and bragging rights (plus paid entry into the U.S. Open).

Scott Lee

Rod
08-27-2003, 07:49 PM
Thanks Scott,

I think I have their program zeroed in now.

Rod

JohnBarton
08-27-2003, 09:37 PM
Why wouldn't a 7 in one area be about the same as a 7 in another area? Isn't this the whole point of the EQUALIZER system? I bet that if the league operators were charged $2000 per team that is raised or DQed at the Nationals then you would see some accurate rankings.

I saw 4's at the booth who ran out like champions - at the very least they knew how to run out and how to duck which is beyond what I think a four should know.

John

Rod
08-27-2003, 10:08 PM
John,

I just made reference to different size towns. Brookfield is a very small town in Carroll County. They may not even have a 7 there, where Kansas City might have hundreds.

At any rate there isn't a cap on a 7's level of play, they could be a AAA player. I'm betting the local boy from Brookfield, if there is one, won't even come close. Like Scott said, I don't think there interested in how a 7 plays. If APA headquarters doesn't care, who else will?

Rod

magicman
08-27-2003, 10:09 PM
what does one have to do in the league to become a 7?

Jimmy B
08-28-2003, 01:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> It was my understanding that the weak 7s are grouped together and the strong 7s are grouped together, in the regional tournaments as well as in Vegas. Thus, if a 7 were to sandbag and run his/her innings up, they would have less competion in Vegas <hr /></blockquote>How would anyone know what a weak 7 or a strong 7 was?

Fred, in local qualifiers for the singles APA tournament in May they seed the event and it is split by SL and then winning percentage, the strong 7's are on the top of the chart and it works it's way down. Sometimes Strong 6's are on the same chart as the 7's, but on the bottom. As far as Team events there is no such thing. JB

jjinfla
08-28-2003, 06:58 AM
Wally, spoke with a captain who won the captain's trip to Vegas and went there to enter the mini's. He's a 7 in 9-ball and a 6 in 8-ball. He said for him to enter the 9-ball mini's would have been pure suicide - they had some really good players there. So he stuck with the 8-ball minis and donated his money there - but at least he had a chance. Now he wants to captain two more teams so he can win the raffle again. LOL Jake

Wally_in_Cincy
08-28-2003, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Wally, spoke with a captain who won the captain's trip to Vegas and went there to enter the mini's. He's a 7 in 9-ball and a 6 in 8-ball. He said for him to enter the 9-ball mini's would have been pure suicide - they had some really good players there. So he stuck with the 8-ball minis and donated his money there - but at least he had a chance.

<font color="blue">I'd bet there were at least a dozen 8-ball 6's there who should be 7's. They know how to get that extra inning per game and still win. </font color>

Now he wants to captain two more teams so he can win the raffle again. LOL Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Wow, the LO gives away a captain's trip? Do the captains pay to get in the raffle? Or is it just given away?

Our LO used to have an annual captains' tournament/meeting with door prizes but he doesn't even do that any more. So my thankless job gets even more thankless /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Oh well wtf /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Fred Agnir
08-28-2003, 07:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnBarton:</font><hr> Why wouldn't a 7 in one area be about the same as a 7 in another area? Isn't this the whole point of the EQUALIZER system? <hr /></blockquote>

Since the basis of the Equalizer is innings, in a weak area you might see a guy running many balls, failing to get out, but their opponent doesn't capitalize. Since this allows the "better" player to win more games than he would have if he played better competition, then his overall innings tend to stay lower than they would compared to if he was shooting against overall better competition.

This is not a theoretical post. It happens in adjacent towns in my area. An APA 7 (and the strongest player in that town) who wouldn't make it past APA 6 in the next town.

Fred

jjinfla
08-28-2003, 01:23 PM
Bassn7, Just heard from my friend who went to Vegas that in the mini tournaments a SL3 would sign up, then his SL7 buddy would go and play the match, then the SL3 would go collect the winnings. Supposedly they caught a guy and then had everyone checking ID's. Of course this could be just one of those stories that get started. Did you hear anything about it while there? Jake

Wally_in_Cincy
08-28-2003, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Bassn7, Just heard from my friend who went to Vegas that in the mini tournaments a SL3 would sign up, then his SL7 buddy would go and play the match, then the SL3 would go collect the winnings. Supposedly they caught a guy and then had everyone checking ID's. Of course this could be just one of those stories that get started. Did you hear anything about it while there? Jake <hr /></blockquote>

I'm sure it has happened.

They were supposed to check for a picture ID and an APA card before play commenced. I think they started this a couple years ago due to some previous shennanigans.

JohnBarton
08-29-2003, 09:35 AM
Thanks Fred! I get it now.

John - APA 3