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BeanDiesel
08-27-2003, 03:08 PM
"Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket." World Standardized Rules, 8-Ball, BCA.

I always thought that a bank shot is a kick shot until I watched Jeanette Lee's video about kick shot.
My questions are
1) is a kick shot considered an obvious shot?

2) let's say I intend to sink on object ball (ball A) into a pocket (let's say Pocket A) infront of it. but i miscue and the direction of ball A is not straight to the pocket. on its way, it contacts another object ball (ball B), and the deflection makes the intended ball go into pocket A. i believe such shot is still obvious and no call is to be made prior to that shot. Am i right?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SPetty
08-27-2003, 04:16 PM
1) No
2) Yes

A kick shot is not an obvious shot. However, if you are shooting an obvious shot and it gets there by a non-obvious means, then it is a good shot. The intent of the rule is to call your ball and your pocket. If you call neither, then obviously it's an obvious shot. If the obvious ball goes in the obvious pocket, then obviously it's a good shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SPetty~~~Obviously having a little fun here...

UWPoolGod
08-27-2003, 05:02 PM
Obviously LOLOLOLOL

Scott Lee
08-27-2003, 06:34 PM
BCA rules clearly state that only the intended object ball, and the pocket need be identified. How the OB gets there (or which ball or rails it goes off) are unimportant. Specifically, kisses, banks or caroms need not be called.
As long as you made a legal hit, and the OB went into the called pocket, that's all that matters.

Scott Lee

Leviathan
08-27-2003, 08:04 PM
BeanDiesel:

It's true that one doesn't have to specify details of banks, caroms, combos, etc. when one calls a shot--but one MUST call the ball and pocket if the shot involves a bank, carom, or combo. When in doubt, call the ball and pocket: that way, you're covered if the OB grazes another ball on its way to the hole.

D.M.

BeanDiesel
08-27-2003, 09:14 PM
"In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent’s right to ask which ball and pocket if he is unsure of the shot.", BCA.

let me get this clear. if i make a none obvious shot (bank or combo) without calling it, it is a foul because it is assumed that i'm making an obvious shot? right?
and i can take an obvious shot without calling right?

Rod
08-27-2003, 09:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
let me get this clear. if i make a none obvious shot (bank or combo) without calling it, <hr /></blockquote>

Then you lose you turn, no foul.

magicman
08-27-2003, 10:11 PM
is there really such a thing as a kick shot, is that not technically a bank shot?

BeanDiesel
08-27-2003, 10:16 PM
if i'm not mistaken, a bank shot is when you hit an object ball, causing it to contact the rail and bounce back and then go into a pocket. while a kick shot is when you hit the cue ball to the rail, and after it bounces, it hits and object ball to sink it.
whether both are considered bank shots (thus not obvious, rule 4.2) is what i'm still not entirely sure.

Rod
08-27-2003, 10:31 PM
I say the reference is to the o/b, you kick at the o/ball, one or more rails, or you kick and bank the o/b. Technically you are banking the c/b first but I only call it a bank when the o/b banks into a called pocket. I never call bank the c/b into the o/b that is assumed, I only call the o/b in a pocket. I guess in the end it doesn't matter as long as it's explained before the shot.

Leviathan
08-28-2003, 04:46 AM
Definitions from Billiards: the Official Rules &amp; Records Book (BCA 1996):

"Bank shot. (Pocket games) A shot in which the object ball is driven to one or more cushions before it is pocketed; incidental contact as a ball moves along and adjacent to a cushion does not qualify as a cushion or bank. It is not an obvious shot and must be called in games requiring called shots. (See kick shot.)" [The incidental contact referred to is contact of the object ball with the cushion.--D.M.]

"Combination. (Pocket games) Shot in which the cue ball first strikes a ball other than the one to be pocketed, with the ball initially contacted in turn striking one or more other balls in an effort to score."

"Kick shot. (General) A shot in which the cue ball banks off a cushion(s) prior to making contact with an object ball or scoring."

--D.M.

jjinfla
08-28-2003, 06:28 AM
1) is a kick shot considered an obvious shot?

Nope. I have attempted a kick shot to the side pocket and the stupid ball went in the corner pocket. That counts in slop but not in call shot/pocket.

2) According to Mike Shamos a bank shot is "one in which a ball strikes a cushion before hitting another ball or entering a pocket". But that is the definition for pocket billiards. In carom and three cushion it is different. A kick shot is "a type of bank shot in which the cue ball contacts a cushion before hitting a ball".

As far as making a ball in a pocket you called after glancing off another ball it all depends on the joint you are playing in. Some places require that you only call the pocket where the ball ends up, other places require that you call anything the OB will hit on the way to the pocket. It is up to you to know the rules where you play. Jake

jjinfla
08-28-2003, 06:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> let me get this clear. if i make a none obvious shot (bank or combo) without calling it, <hr /></blockquote>
Then you lose you turn, no foul. <hr /></blockquote>

Rod, Did you ever have a player line up what you think is an angle shot to the side pocket and he misses but it banks into the corner pocket? And then he attempts to continue shooting like he actually played it there? Is it too late to call him on it now because you had the opportunity to ask where he was playing it before he shot? And if you do he says it was obvious he played that easy bank. Jake

Fred Agnir
08-28-2003, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote magicman:</font><hr> is there really such a thing as a kick shot, is that not technically a bank shot? <hr /></blockquote>
In American pool, a kick shot is different than a bank shot. A bank shot in American pool describes the object ball's action. A kick shot in American pool really describes the cueball's action.

Fred

Fred Agnir
08-28-2003, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BeanDiesel:</font><hr> whether both are considered bank shots (thus not obvious, rule 4.2) is what i'm still not entirely sure. <hr /></blockquote>Let me make it obvious.

They're not the same thing.
You've got the definitions correct.
They're both not obvious.
They both should be called.

If the rules need clarifying to include kick shots in the one sentence you're hung-up on, then maybe it should just say "etc." at the end like they do a few sentences later.

Fred

Rod
08-28-2003, 09:31 AM
Jake,

I've watched what looked like obvious bank shots, then watched the ball kiss off a point or double bank into another pocket. I can't think of anyone pulling a move like that for many many years, and then I can't remember. That is something likely to happen in 8 ball which I play very little.

Rod