View Full Version : Talisman vs Moori
I know that there is probably a thread out there about the same thing but I would like some current info on the subject.
Ive heard great things about both of these tips but I really want the low down on both. Moori is supposed to be the best tip on the market with excellent craftsmanship and quality, which unfortunately comes with a high price tag. They roughly go for 25 a tip.
However, the Talisman is supposed to be of equal quality and performance and the price at the Talisman site is 3 tips for 25.
Now my question to you is, for those who have actually used these tips and have experienced how they peform and endure the constant abuse. Which do you think is the better tip not only for the performance and quality but also for the price. In one hand you get one for 25 and in the other you get 3 for the price of one. Will the Moori provide good performance , durability and be worth every penny. Or will the 3 Talisman outlast the other.
Another question that I have is how often do people change there tips? If you play a lot of pool what is the average lifetime of your tip provided that you are a decent player that basically knows what they are doing and takes good care of your stick?
08-28-2003, 10:40 AM
They are both great tips and the longevity of both are about the same as any layered tip. I've used both and I play a lot of pool, changing tips every 6-8 months or so. Since trying the Talisman and the Moori, I've gone back to the LePro that my Viking originally came with. I just change my tips too often to be spending 25 bucks a pop. Another point is, having expensive equipment will usually improve your game. Not because it is better than anything else, but because along with higher prices comes a higher confidence in your game. You can only be as good as you think you can be.
A Water Buffalo, no layers, no glue, no separation, a lot less money than both. Oh and it performs better. Tips last 1 1/2 years or better.
Why compare the two, do you think a tip is better because of price? Pool & Billiards got along just fine the first couple of hunded years with non layered tips. They were used by the legends of the game you read about today. I think they did pretty good and I can't even imagine Mosconi, Crane, Moore, or Hoppe playing with a 11 peice tip. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif JMO of course, carry on
08-28-2003, 11:01 AM
On this board, you will find people in both camps. Both are very good quality tips.
I have used Moori and I like them very much. Currently, I am using a non-layered tip, but I hope to be going back to Moori shortly.
I have never used Talisman, but many on this board do and like them very much.
The life of a tip is directly determined by the amount of scuffing and other tip maintenance you do. For some, a tip will easily last a year or more. I am definitely in that group.
There are others on this board, not mentioning any names, because they have reformed /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif, have been know to destroy tips quite quickly with their B-files. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Your personal practices will determine how long any tip lasts for you.
Even at $25 per tip, plus installation, unless you do your own, the cost of a new tip converts into only a few hours of table time. Since a tip will last, on average, about a year, I personally do not believe cost should be a factor in determining what tip you use. IMHO, you should use the one you like the best.
08-28-2003, 11:12 AM
I do all my own re-tipping, and my box of 50 Le Pro's that cost me 15 dollars 3 years ago will probably last me the rest of my pool playing life span. The times I have tried the Moori or the Talisman is when I'm ready to retip and I for some reason feel like spoiling myself. I personally don't feel they play much different than your average run-of-the-mill tip. Usually if something's not going right with my game I blame my stroke.....or my wife.
08-28-2003, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Iowashark:</font><hr> They are both great tips and the longevity of both are about the same as any layered tip. I've used both and I play a lot of pool, changing tips every 6-8 months or so. Since trying the Talisman and the Moori, I've gone back to the LePro that my Viking originally came with. I just change my tips too often to be spending 25 bucks a pop. Another point is, having expensive equipment will usually improve your game. Not because it is better than anything else, but because along with higher prices comes a higher confidence in your game. You can only be as good as you think you can be. <hr /></blockquote>
Iowashark...This is a misconception shared by MANY poolplayers, who BELIEVE that a higher priced cue will make them play better. It is the STROKE that determines how well someone plays...not the brand of cue, not the brand of tip, and definitely not the PRICE of the cue. An expert player can run out just as easily using a house cue off the wall, as with his $2000+ custom cue...REGARDLESS of what kind of tip it is.
To answer your question, from my perspective...I play every day, change tips MAYBE once a year (and I break with my playing cue...don't even OWN a break cue, but DO have a Stealth jump cue)! The Talisman tips are, imo, a better buy...as the quality and playability are equal to the Moori, and as you pointed out, 1/3 the price (or less). Why pay $25 when you can get essentially the same thing for $8 (or less)? I also play with LePro tips and like them too...and they are only $1 (or less)!!! I do prefer layered tips, and Talisman is, again imo, the best bang for the buck of any of the many brands of layered tips out there.
08-28-2003, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Iowashark:</font><hr> I do all my own re-tipping, and my box of 50 Le Pro's that cost me 15 dollars 3 years ago will probably last me the rest of my pool playing life span. The times I have tried the Moori or the Talisman is when I'm ready to retip and I for some reason feel like spoiling myself. I personally don't feel they play much different than your average run-of-the-mill tip. Usually if something's not going right with my game I blame my stroke.....or my wife. <hr /></blockquote>
Getting 50 tips at a good price to last a lifetime might not be the best. Leather has a tendency, as wood does, to dry out and get brittle. Through the later years, your tips might fail due to lack of moisture.
08-28-2003, 12:09 PM
Sorry for the confusion, Scott, I was a little confused with myself after posting that one. But what I said in the post where I think you were confused, is that expensive equipment will improve your game for one reason, it will increase your confidence. I believe talent on the table comes from 2 things, your stroke and your confidence. What most beginning players need to learn earlier is how to find that confidence without spending too much on a cue. I hope this has cleared things up.
I currently use Moori tips and they are fine, pricey but play great. I have tried to install a half dozen Tailsman tips and I can't keep them from delaminating. I have a lathe and I have installed a lot of tips, lepro, moori, triangle,tiger,wb but I can't seem to make the Tailsman work. I know Blackheart had problems and he is a cuemaker, I remember from past threads. If anybody has any suggestions I am very open to advice.
08-28-2003, 12:44 PM
I got a deal at Barringer, I bought 3 Moori M for a total of $22.50. I like the Moori very much, it feels right to me.
08-28-2003, 02:12 PM
Go to www.talismanbilliards.com (http://www.talismanbilliards.com) and leave a message for Tony.
He will assist with any problems you encountered with these tips.
I've been putting on Talisman tips for the last 3 years and haven't had any problems with delamination at all.
Please contact Tony.. he will be able to assist.
08-28-2003, 02:14 PM
I don't install many tips and I don't have a lathe, but I bought 15 talisman of different type (S,M,H,XH) and have installed 12 of them by hand with care and patience. So far none of them have de-laminated. You might have got a bad batch or you're doing something wrong.
There is a list of things to do and not to do on Talisman website. For one thing, I never use any movement from the ferrule to the end of the tip, everything is from the top to the base or sideways (burnishing)...
It works for me and I love them.
I've played with Morri, LePro, Triangle, and currently Tailsman. For my $$$ I'll take the value of the Tailsman over a Morri. I noticed no drop off on the feel and performance vs the Morri so I've stuck with them now since last September. How often do I change tips? Every 6 months whether I need it or not.
Thanks, I will give it a try...
08-28-2003, 04:17 PM
I have played with a wide variety of tips to find what I like and have come to the conclusion that I prefer the Talisman tips. I have used Moori tips and find the Talisman to be just as good and less expensive as you already stated.
08-28-2003, 04:57 PM
I have used Le Pro on the shaft that came on my Red Dot. Then I tried Talisman Pro M and had Annie installed it and then 2 months later it de-laminated at a tournament. I had no spare shaft and my play went out the window,..I could not play with the BK very well, which had a very hard Tiger.
I now have tried Moori and have the Moori M on my 314 and my new Pechauer IV-2. They play great with no problems.
As for Talisman, I will not fault the entire company for one mishap, I still think they are a fine tip and have several at the house, Pro and WB, and may still try them again.
I have had the Moori's installed and will play with them until they are used up.
08-28-2003, 06:26 PM
Hi Jay, I just had a Moori put on one shaft and a Tiger put on another shaft, both tips being medium. I was going to try a Talisman and a Moori but they didn't have any Talisman tips at this pro shop. I have currently only shot with the new Moori and I like it so far, haven't got to the Tiger yet because I want to give each tip a good try. Terry
Ward, I might have been luckier than you and receive a good lot from Talisman (or just lucky on the tip I am currently using). I have not had a problem with either Talisman tip that I have (a pro med on one shaft and a WB xh on the other).
Check with Don (cuemaker in Arlington), he put my second talisman on and there have been no problems. He plays out of Clicks and made the cue for Les (Onepocketchamp).
However before all that, take Tom up on his advice and contact Tony. He should be able to help the most.
08-29-2003, 03:06 PM
This tip argument has been going on, since I hooked-up with CCB. The only way to put this thing to rest, is to have a blind test, like the old beer tasting contest. Get 6-8 cues, that are identical and put on the various tips. Let 10 A players have their turn with several strokes on each cue and match the tip with the correct cue. No lupes or visual inspections allowed. My guess is total confusion. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
At least one thing would happen. If you don't know who made the tip then thinking a $25 moori is better isn't going to happen. I'd venture to say the same would happen with predator. What gives it away though is it's small size, but that could be over come with smaller shafts.
08-29-2003, 07:58 PM
I shoot with a moori M but for my second choice I like the instroke tip. I take very good care and shoot about 3 nights a week (winter) and I change the tip once a year and it still has life in it. I don't scuff it and never miscue
08-29-2003, 10:46 PM
Great point! I have Talisman, moori, and LePro tipped cues, all different weights, all different joints, but similar tapers. When I am in-stroke, any stick will do. When my stroke is sucking, man, i'm full of excuses. Does that sound familiar? Lock /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I am going to get with Don. I don't know the deal but when I put any heat at all on them they come apart. They are not worth a nickel to me if I have to put them on and trim them by hand...
09-01-2003, 08:37 PM
Ward...I(and Spiderman) found many if not all of the Talismans I had installed to eventually delaminate, and these tips were done by both he with the lathe, and I with the Willard tool.
My question to you successfull Talisman users is, "Were the tips left to wear out, or did you change in say 4 months for any reason?" I was a preacher about loving these tips until I really did a good thinking routine for how long truly used Talismans stayed un-delam'd...wasn't more than 2-3 good months of usage at the most for me. I have NEVER used a Talisman all the way toll thin. Many of the changes were due to the separation, others were, well....just needed the shaft for another sample tip.
I installed 2 Moori tips recently, I'll let you know if I loose a lamination on one of those...sid
09-01-2003, 08:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> At least one thing would happen. If you don't know who made the tip then thinking a $25 moori is better isn't going to happen. I'd venture to say the same would happen with predator. What gives it away though is it's small size, but that could be over come with smaller shafts.
Rod <hr /></blockquote>
They're nowhere near $25 when you buy them from Barringer. Mine cost me just $7.50 each so I'd say they are a much better value at that price vs. the Talisman.
09-02-2003, 01:23 PM
Though I currently play with Triangles, I have previously put quite a bit of time on both Moori and Talisman. Additionally, I have installed both tips on numerous cues for other players.
In my opinion, the Moori is the higher quality tip. I've spent quite a bit of time studying both under a laboratory microscope, both new and after significant play. If you had this opportunity to do a side-by-side comparison, you would probably agree.
The Moori is far more consistent in layer thickness and alignment, and from my experience also is less prone to separations. The Talisman has the advantage for some players in that the hardest Talismans are harder than the hardest Mooris, so if your hardness preference runs to the extreme that could sway you.
Talismans are available in moderate quantity somewhere in the $5-$6 range, if you shop around and wait for a sale. Tony Jones runs occasional specials, it's good to get on his mailing list. He usually throws in a hand towel and polo shirt with the orders. Last time I bought Mooris, they were on special at Barringer's in Florida for $7.50. Their normal price is (I think) $12.50.
The closest thing in a cheaper tip to compare to the Moori's is the Instroke. Once mounted and shaped, they are visually indistinguishable. Don't know about the wear characteristics, as I haven't used one on my personal cue.
09-04-2003, 12:42 AM
I play 3-5 times a week but not for long periods. Maybe 2- 3 hrs at a time. I don't scuff, I chalk and don't miscue. My last Talisman(H) lasted over 1 1/2 yrs. A friend has installed dozens if not 100's without any problems. Check with Tony he is super easy to work with and very responsive.
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