PDA

View Full Version : BCTV Strickland vs. Duell, US Open Foul Question



BBCVD
08-29-2003, 10:22 AM
During this match, Cory had the CB frozen against the OB. He elevated his cue about 70 degrees and hit down on the CB resulting in a successful cross bank of the OB. Earl had requested the tourny director to watch the hit. He did and said it was OK. Earl said it was a foul. The TV commentator also thought it was a foul, and then said that this type of shot was somewhat of a "clouded issue" on the pro tour. Can someone please explain this to me?

ChrisW
08-29-2003, 10:31 AM
It has been my understanding that when the OB and CB are frozen you don't even have to elevate your cue. Only when there is a gap between the OB and CB do you elevate your cue (or complete control of your follow through).

Since two frozen balls act as one on contact there is no double hit called.

Chris

Iowashark
08-29-2003, 10:35 AM
In BCA rulings, this is called a push shot. If they are frozen you don't have to elevate your cue, but if you attempt to strike the cue ball head on, you'll 'push' the cue rather than clean hit. What he was doing was avoiding the push by elevating his cue, this can also be done by aiming the cue ball at 45 degrees away from the path that the object ball will travel.

ChrisW
08-29-2003, 10:44 AM
Here are the BCA rules.

I don't think that shooting into the CB and OB while they are frozen is a foul or a push.
Chris


3.23 FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS
If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed. If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul. (See Rule 2.20 for judging this kind of shot.) If a third ball is close by, care should be taken not to foul that ball under the first part of this rule.

3.24 PUSH SHOT FOULS
It is a foul if the cue ball is pushed by the cue tip, with contact being maintained for more than the momentary time commensurate with a stroked shot. (Such shots are usually referred to as push shots.)

2.20 JUDGING DOUBLE HITS
When the distance between the cue ball and the object ball is less than the width of a chalk cube, (See Diagram 18) special attention from the referee is required. In such a situation, unless the referee can positively determine a legal shot has been performed, the following guidance may apply: if the cue ball follows through the object ball more than 1/2 ball, it is a foul.

Qtec
08-29-2003, 11:03 AM
According to this , [ QUOTE ]
or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul <hr /></blockquote> ,its a foul.

The momment that the tip contacts the Qb, the tip , Qb and Ob are all it contact.

Q

ChrisW
08-29-2003, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> According to this , &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul <hr /></blockquote> ,its a foul.

The momment that the tip contacts the Qb, the tip , Qb and Ob are all it contact.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

I believe they are talking about an other OB or if there was a gap. If you apply that rule the way you are saying then it would be impossible to shoot this shot at all, from any angle.

Chris

Rod
08-29-2003, 11:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> According to this , &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul <hr /></blockquote> ,its a foul.

The momment that the tip contacts the Qb, the tip , Qb and Ob are all it contact.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Here is the full text.
If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul.

Missing peices of the puzzle. We don't know for sure if the balls were frozen or in this case if there was contact with another ball. If there was contact with another ball during the stroke it was a foul. But we don't know that. The best that can happen is if you ask half a question, you get half of an answer. Or is that a half assed answer? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Qtec
08-29-2003, 11:42 AM
I agree. The rule doesnt make sense in this situation.

Over here, its not a foul.
Qtec

Kato
08-29-2003, 12:23 PM
I remember that match and that shot last year. Earl was out of his chair in 1/10 of a second. He insisted it was a foul. Everyone in the stands just kind of sat there staring at each other. We all thought it was a foul. Earl just sat back down and started talking to the crowd.

Kato

smoovestroke
08-29-2003, 02:08 PM
3.23 FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS
If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed. If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul. (See Rule 2.20 for judging this kind of shot.) If a third ball is close by, care should be taken not to foul that ball under the first part of this rule.

This would seem to indicate it was a foul. Unofficially, I've always been under the impression, like all the players I've played, that if the cb and ob are frozen, you could hit straight into the cb. However, if you've ever seen time-lapsed photos of a cue tip stroking through the cb, you'll discover that the cue tip actually hits the cb many times before the cb finally leaves the tip of the cue.

Alfie
08-29-2003, 09:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BBCVD:</font><hr> and then said that this type of shot was somewhat of a "clouded issue" on the pro tour. <hr /></blockquote>I can see why. There is no pro tour.

Sid_Vicious
08-30-2003, 09:15 AM
"I've always been under the impression, like all the players I've played, that if the cb and ob are frozen, you could hit straight into the cb."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is because it is true, that is because the rule was put forth for clarity and to stop exactly these kinds of arguments. The ref made his call and Earl should have sat down and quit bumpin' his gums at the audience like he did. Hell I'm starting to believe that there should be fouls assessed to those who argue after a call, it sucks for these things to happen and the public having to sit through it all, diminishes the popularity of our sport even more. The ref did what he was supposed to do(made the judgement), and if frozen balls were the situation, he did it simple and he did it right, no foul...sid~~~shut up Earl!

PQQLK9
08-30-2003, 09:23 AM
Amen!