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View Full Version : safe or go for it? 9ball



jjakque
09-01-2003, 11:39 AM
This position has been coming up a lot in my life, either after having missed position or by my opponent's largesse. I can bank it 1 out of 3 times but when I miss it I am leaving gifts.

START(
%AB8[4%BB8B1%CB5C3%D[8B1%EB4C1%FB6B8%GB3B7%HB7B6%ID3N0%J[6B1
%KB8\1%LB1B1%M[0\3%NC1\8%OC0C0%Pb2N5
)END

Please help.

L.S. Dennis
09-01-2003, 11:46 AM
Whenever I hear questions like this I always think back to what the great Buddy Hall said, and that is: "If the safe is as hard as the shot, take the shot!" You need to give yourself a chance to win.

bolo
09-01-2003, 11:52 AM
You bank the ball in and stick the cue ball as close to the rail as you can in case you miss. There is no where to play safe and you don't win by playing safe. If you shoot you may win and will not necessarily lose, you have more going for you. Keep in mind, nothing comes with a guarantee but you want the best odds. People may show you ways to play safe but none will assure you of winning, making the bank will, go for it.

smfsrca
09-01-2003, 12:07 PM
Here is the safety play. I call it 'around the world'. Bank the ball firm enough to go all the way around the table back to where it was. Depending on the speed of the table, the cue typically will end up in the kitchen. Sometimes the 9 will go in the side pocket.
START(
%AB8[4%BB8B1%CB5C3%D[8B1%EB4C1%FB6B8%GB3B7%HB7B6%ID3N0%J[6B1
%KB8\1%LB1B1%M[0\3%NC1\8%OC0C0%Pl0K2%Wm0A9%XE0M8%Yq6G2%Zg9C8
%[^3X6%\r9H3%]E0P9%^[7Z3%eB1`9
)END

Qtec
09-01-2003, 01:17 PM
If you have got good eyes you can play it like this.
As thin as you can and extreme OE.

START(
%AC8T7%BB8B1%CB5C3%D[8B1%EB4C1%FB6B8%GB3B7%HB7B6%ID3N0%J[6B1
%KB8\1%LB1B1%M[0\3%NC1\8%OC0C0%P`1N5%QE0S7%Ri4Z5%UF8M0%V^8N9
%YI6D2%ZC7K4%[g2Z2%\J8C7%]D1S2%^D0O2%eB1`9
)END

A lot of E and not too much pace.

Qtec

Keith Talent
09-01-2003, 01:27 PM
I agonize over that one, too. Either I'd bank it, trying to err on the side of undercutting, at a speed that would send 9 somewhere short of the side pocket if I miss, and the cb near the rail on the opposite side. Or maybe try to kill the cb with low inside right and leave 9 near the rail at the opposite end.

Kato
09-01-2003, 01:35 PM
I'll either fire at it or shoot it like QTec explains. Depends completely on how well I'm striking the ball.

Kato

bolo
09-01-2003, 01:54 PM
You can not do that, no matter how scared you are you must shoot the shot. There is no alternative that gives you any better chance of winning. Even if you do what you suggest how does that help you win, other then 1, praying he misses and 2 hoping you are left a shot that you can make. He could leave you a worse shot then you had and will wish you now had the bank to shoot to win. You have to be willing to play the game to be a winner, not just praying for your opponent to screw up so you can win.

bolo
09-01-2003, 02:03 PM
And then after all that, the guy shoots at the bank, misses, and leaves you this. Playing safe does not assure you of anything, other then you are giving the guy a free shot to win. Believe me, he will be very happy you passed on the shot if you play safe. like it or not, you have to suck it up and take the shot. I don't know a pro. on the planet that would not take the shot to win.

START(
%A[6\6%BC8\6%CB4C0%D[5C4%EZ9\6%F[1C1%G[3\5%H[2B3%Is1W3%JB6B5
%KA9\3%LB5B9%MB5\2%NA4[1%OB5B3%PG1Z7
)END

bolo
09-01-2003, 02:49 PM
Every once and a while a question comes up that is important, in this case it is a very common shot you often get left with. At a point in a pool game, there is a time when you will have no guarantee of the out come but you have to make a choice. This is one of those shots. You can't let fear determine your choice.

Sid_Vicious
09-01-2003, 07:04 PM
START(
%AB8[4%BB8B1%CB5C3%D[8B1%EB4C1%FB6B8%GB3B7%HB7B6%ID3N0%J[6B1
%KB8\1%LB1B1%M[0\3%NC1\8%OC0C0%Pb2N5%WE8N3%Xa1N6%eB4b2
)END

Here's my answer, bank the 9 back to the other short rail with speed control.

START(
%AB8[4%BB8B1%CB5C3%D[8B1%EB4C1%FB6B8%GB3B7%HB7B6%Ir6M5%J[6B1
%KB8\1%LB1B1%M[0\3%NC1\8%OC0C0%PF8P5%WE8N3%Xa1N6%eB4b2
)END

That's what I'd do. No guartantees but in my experience the best shot for my way of playing...sid

cheesemouse
09-01-2003, 07:16 PM
LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Now Sid how does this shot fit with your signiture "If you ain't livin' on the edge...
you're takin'up to much room..."

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

bolo
09-01-2003, 07:18 PM
Actually, it does come with a guarantee, a guarantee you will not win the game this inning and your opponent will have a free shot to beat you. If I were playing you, I would be ecstatic if I saw you were going to pass on the shot.

Ralph S.
09-01-2003, 07:41 PM
Bolo, I disagree. There is another safety shot provided your stroke is smooth and soft enough. Simply shoot the cb just soft enough roll ont the ob and freeze them together or leave them very, very tight on each other. This can be kicked out of, and possibly banked. However the make percantage drops drastically.

Rod
09-01-2003, 08:03 PM
I'm probably going to have to bank this one. One thing for sure, I'm not going to try and play leave, and the shot. If I'm shooting a bank it needs to be at a speed that I like, not hard or soft.

There are variations of this shot than can be played safe, and the safe might be the better shot.

Rod

bolo
09-01-2003, 09:31 PM
I saw a guy try that for $5000. needing one game. The table rolled off a hair and the ball ended up straight in the corner. People betting on the side wanted to break his back. You will end up getting put back up the table maybe worse then you were before unless it is perfect.

Terry
09-02-2003, 06:17 AM
Hi jjakque, I would without a doubt bank it. The thing you would have to do is get that 1 in 3 statistic out of the mind before you shoot or your chances of making the bank would be diminished. If you were to try a safety, I beleive you would most likely be leaving a one bank shot as well and their odds might be 2-3. Terry

jjinfla
09-02-2003, 06:22 AM
You sure are right in saying that that shot comes up a lot. If things are going right and I am shooting well, or if I am hopelessly behind I go for the bank. Which means I probably take the bank 75 to 80% of the time. Otherwise I will either try Sid's shot, but if I am not shooting well and miss hit then the 9 comes back on an angle usually leaving an easy shot. Or if the balls are pretty straight in then I might try the double hit/kiss shot where the CB hits the OB into the rail and then the OB comes off the rail and hits the CB again. Usually the OB ends up on the rail and the CB goes straight back toward the other end rail. Or just bank the OB to one side rail and send the CB to the other side rail. But when this shot does come up I get that sinking feeling where if I don't make the bank I am losing the game. Just like Bolo says. Maybe that tells me that I should just spend more time practicing that bank shot. It's really not that hard. And sure does look nice when it goes right in the center of the pocket. Jake

bluewolf
09-02-2003, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> Whenever I hear questions like this I always think back to what the great Buddy Hall said, and that is: "If the safe is as hard as the shot, take the shot!" You need to give yourself a chance to win. <hr /></blockquote>

Geez. Seems like the best solution and jake and bolo also said,(since this keeps coming up) is practice the shot until a 33% shot becomes a 75% shot. Playing safe on the 8 or 9,depending on the game, imo, does not usually turn out too hot. Usually, if I do that, just like I think Bolo suggested, am counting on my opponent screwing up rather than my own skills,and this has backfired on me more than it has resulted in a win for me.

Bruce Lee said 'lengthen your own line rather than try to cut your opponent's line'. To me this means win by improving rather than by counting on my opponent to screw up. Really do not play safe too much if I can have a good chance for an offensive strike.

Laura

cheesemouse
09-02-2003, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> You bank the ball in and stick the cue ball as close to the rail as you can in case you miss. There is no where to play safe and you don't win by playing safe. If you shoot you may win and will not necessarily lose, you have more going for you. Keep in mind, nothing comes with a guarantee but you want the best odds. People may show you ways to play safe but none will assure you of winning, making the bank will, go for it. <hr /></blockquote>

Bolo,
You are right on the money and right on the odds. I think this problem can be answered by possing another question: What if the cb were on the other end rail, would you play safe or go for the bank? From here the safe is a pipe dream but the bank isn't. By moving the cb to the center of the table the odds of making the bank only increase...if I passed on this offensive shot it would be like climbing back down the ladder of the high board right in front of my girlfriend and then trying to explain my reasoning. She would know no matter what I said..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
09-02-2003, 12:04 PM
I actually cut that 9 in the upper right corner pocket twice this long weekend using a thin aim and bottom english. The shot just felt right-on for me so I hit it and made a nice result out of it. Different day, probably different results. The bank sometimes get to be just as big for me on certain day...go figure. sid

Keith Talent
09-02-2003, 02:06 PM
Helluva shot, Sid.

I was thinking about the various ways of playing that thing when I went to a local tournament last night. All I can say is that about 4 times I saw the top guys successfully play Q's shot ... fanning it and sending the cb 3 or 4 rails to the far side rail. Nobody went for the bank. And we're talking A players and a touring pro, Ginky. This wasn't always on the 9, maybe also on the 7 or 8, but not so early in the game, anyway.

Sid_Vicious
09-02-2003, 02:32 PM
There was nothing on the game, so it is debatable whether I would have even considered stroking that attempt another time. It did get my opponent's compliment in the one 10-ball set I was in at the time. Truth is that it could have gone wrong in many more ways than it went right, but it was fun to hit it twice in one day. Thanks for the atta-boy..sid

bolo
09-02-2003, 08:51 PM
I have said that at no time should you not shoot the shot. I will contradict that a little. First, there is no safety really to be played with only the 9 left on the table. What ever you do, your opponent is not going to be safe or in any kind of trap. He comes to the table able to either make the ball or play a shot giving it back to you. But once he comes to the table you fate is up in the air depending how good a player he is. Against a weak player, I could see where you may feel safe letting them come back to the table and possibly handing you the game. It is still risky because they could make the shot or miss and leave you bad. Against a very strong player, you have to shoot the bank. There is no way you want a Buddy Hall coming back to the table if there is any way you can help it. What you saw, was probably players who were not afraid of what the other player may do to them by giving them a free turn at the table. Interesting thing happen when you are faced with situations like this. Lets say you shoot the shot and hang it, losing the game. You may walk away saying to yourself "why did I shoot that shot". If you make it, you will think nothing. If you play safe and he banks it in, you will wish you had shot it. If he hangs it, you will be glad you didn't shoot it. As you become a player, you have to develop a sense of what is right and what is wrong, (for you anyway). You have to know you are doing the right thing, even if you get bad results sometimes, while at the same time keeping an open mind. That's why it takes years to learn the game, and you never stop learning.

Fran Crimi
09-02-2003, 11:28 PM
You've gotten a lot of good suggestions and the only thing I can think to add is that it's one of those tricky shots where you have to stand over the shot to really see what you can do with it. Change the cb position 1/4 inch either way and it could mean the difference between playing a bank, a safe or shooting it straight in.

For example, if both balls were lined up perfectly straight, you may want to consider shooting a double kiss on the ob, bringing the cb straight back to the bottom rail. If the cb were 1/4 inch to the right, you may want to consider cutting it straight in the left corner with extreme low right, bringing the cb back 3 rails to try to freeze it to the bottom rail in case you miss the shot.

It depends.

Fran