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View Full Version : Why wont the ball draw??????????



Jay
09-05-2003, 09:27 AM
What is going on here??????? I am having the hardest time on my draw shots. Ive been losing some good games because I cant draw the cue. I dont know what the problem is. I always aim low and try to follow through as much as possible but it doesnt draw. When i try to draw the cue most of the time it ends up just being a stop shot. I mean it is a pretty good stop shot but its not what I want. The very few times that I can get the cue to draw I usually elevate the butt like 3 or 4 inches and it draws pretty much where i want it but its not consistent. What is do you think i am doing wrong. I know it is hard to assess the problem because you cant watch my stroke but based on my description what do you think the problem is????? Ive heard that a softer tip helps and also a good shaft too. Do you think I need to follow through more?????? I need your help

TomBrooklyn
09-05-2003, 09:38 AM
Try a looser grip and see how you make out. Fast and loose. Loose. Loosey goosey.

Fred Agnir
09-05-2003, 09:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jay:</font><hr>I always aim low and try to follow through as much as possible but it doesnt draw. When i try to draw the cue most of the time it ends up just being a stop shot. I mean it is a pretty good stop shot but its not what I want. The very few times that I can get the cue to draw I usually elevate the butt like 3 or 4 inches and it draws pretty much where i want it but its not consistent. What is do you think i am doing wrong. <hr /></blockquote>

You're simply not hitting low enough. If you aim low, and hit low, the ball will draw. But, if you raise the tip (usually caused by the elbow dropping) you'll hit higher than you aimed. Use a striped ball (stripe horizontal) as the cueball and check the chalk mark after you've hit it. See if it isn't much higher than where you aimed.

My current theory of why elevating slightly helps is that your shoulder is forced to hold your elbow up.

But you're right. It's tough to diagnose without watching you. Try the striped ball. Report your findings.

Fred

09-05-2003, 09:59 AM

CrispyFish
09-05-2003, 09:59 AM
I had some trouble with my draw a while back because of a loose ferrule.

SPetty
09-05-2003, 11:53 AM
Hi Jay,

Have you ever been able to draw before? Is the problem that you used to be able to draw and now can't, or is it that you've never really been able to do it?

If never, then it would be a good idea to have someone that you know show you how to do it. It only takes a few times to get the stroke figured out (and a lot of time to perfect it!), but it helps to have someone show you.

SPetty~~~Of course, what we're not telling you is that obviously, the real problem is that the tip diameter is too large and the tip is too flat to draw well... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
09-05-2003, 12:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>.....SPetty~~~Of course, what we're not telling you is that obviously, the real problem is that the tip diameter is too large and the tip is too flat to draw well... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I disagree. It's probably because he doesn't have tips made from albino pigs with exactly 13 layers and glued on with Duro Super-Gel that has not reached its expiration date....and not heated on the lathe.

bluewolf
09-05-2003, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Hitting 'low and level' is the most accurate way to draw. You must be able to squash your bridge hand down. For me this took a couple of months to where I really perfected it. By accurate, I mean it comes backwards in a more straighter line versus using the 'bar room' draw, which is hitting downward at an angle on the cue ball. The amount it comes backwards it also easier to control with the 'low and level'. You must follow thru and TRUST YOUR STROKE. Most people jab by following through only a couple of inches beyond the cue ball, and this is why you are only achieving a stop shot. Pretty soon you will be drawing like a champ. BTW, the bar room draw has its usefullness and I now practice that also with the same drill as above. Scott Lee, a CCB qualified instructor, is very good at teaching this in case you would want a lesson in the future. He travels the country all of the time and could make it through your area most likely.

Good luck,
ww <hr /></blockquote>

I do think the low and level is the most accurate but for me has also been the hardest and am still working on it. The 'chop down draw' I can use for 1-2 diamond draws. Our sl4 lost his match last night because he could not draw. I am sure it is a skill I will be working on for sometime before I get it perfected, ie, can bring it back exactly where I want it.

Laura

Rod
09-05-2003, 01:32 PM
Why won't the ball draw? Well Jay ------one of your early or first posts.

[ QUOTE ]
I know that you are probably thinking "what the hell kind of post is this?????" but I would really like to know other peoples opinions on subjects that I encounter while sitting at work. <hr /></blockquote>

You want to know opinions because your bored at work? You never replied back to this post.

[ QUOTE ]
well dont everybody rush with replies or information all at once now./ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

Another excerpt from Jay, but you did actually respond to a couple of posts, good going.


[ QUOTE ]
I know that there is probably a thread out there about the same thing but I would like some current info on the subject.
Ive heard great things about both of these tips but I really want the low down on both. Moori is supposed to be the best tip on the market with excellent craftsmanship and quality, which unfortunately comes with a high price tag. They roughly go for 25 a tip.
However, the Talisman is supposed to be of equal quality and performance and the price at the Talisman site is 3 tips for 25.
Now my question to you is, for those who have actually used these tips and have experienced how they peform and endure the constant abuse. Which do you think is the better tip not only for the performance and quality but also for the price. In one hand you get one for 25 and in the other you get 3 for the price of one. Will the Moori provide good performance , durability and be worth every penny. Or will the 3 Talisman outlast the other.
Another question that I have is how often do people change there tips? If you play a lot of pool what is the average lifetime of your tip provided that you are a decent player that basically knows what they are doing and takes good care of your stick?<hr /></blockquote>

You knew there were threads but asked anyway. Well ok I guess no problem. Along with a couple of other questions, no problem.

The problem is you received over 25 replies, but not one reply from you! Are we your servant to use as necessary? You might be ok Jay but your respect for people and manners need some work.

I know exactly why the c/b won't draw and you don't have to be extremely talented to do it, you do need talent to control it however. You already received some advise, do you think it's worthy of a reply?

~~`some things just bug me, rod~~~ not to bugged

ras314
09-05-2003, 02:04 PM
How far away from the ob are you when trying to draw? Obiously the farther away the better (and faster) stroke you need. Biggest help for me is to use a loose grip to keep from "scooping" the tip upwards. A lesson from Scott Lee showed me you can hit much lower than I could believe but a good stroke is required with a consisent follow thru.

Also a heavy bar cb will be more difficult to draw than a normal weight and size cb.

9 Ball Girl
09-05-2003, 02:17 PM
I don't think it's the tip. I can draw pretty much with any cue as long as I hit it low with a nice follow through. For minimal draw action I usually keep an open bridge hand but for those table length power draws, even where there's a lot of green between the OB and the CB, I have to use a closed hand bridge. I tighten my grip everytime I draw the CB but that's just what works for me.

DoomCue
09-05-2003, 06:58 PM
Rod,

Yours is the kind of post that keeps newbies from posting. So you have over 3,000 posts - does that mean you're the CCB gatekeeper, or just someone with a little too much time on his hands? If you didn't like his post, is it necessary to attack him? Instead of helping a newcomer learn to draw, you feel it's more important to disparage him. You said you "know exactly why the c/b won't draw." Well, then, by all means, why not enlighten him? Otherwise, it shouldn't be necessary to say anything at all. "Respect and manners" are a double-edged sword - practice what you preach.

My $0.02 on draw - keep your cue low and level, keep your head still, and follow through. It is a myth that following through maintains longer tip contact with the cue ball thus increasing draw, but following through does tend to ensure no other bad things are happening throughout the stroke, like cue deceleration, and jerking the tip upward (but like most things in pool, not always).

-djb &lt;-- Thinks Rod should bug off....

Keith Talent
09-05-2003, 07:20 PM
Is this a bar table problem? ... those big balls are murder, of course.

But if not, I think Fred was probably right on it when he said you might be aiming low, but something happens during your stroke and you end up hitting closer to center ball.

I pretty well cured this kind of problem in my own game by paying extra attention to where I was cueing, and then focusing most of my attention on exactly where the tip was striking the ball at impact, rather than focusing mostly on the object ball.

Try to see the hit and feel the hit, while following through, of course, and it'll probably start coming back more for you. Might also watch some tapes of the pros ... I seemed to get more action after seeing what a smooth, relaxed draw stroke can accomplish for somebody like Earl or Souquet.

Genie
09-05-2003, 07:31 PM
The "follow through" as everyone is calling it is just the result of a good stroke. In order to draw the ball you have to finish your stroke. In a draw shot, most amateurs get scared that the cue ball will come straight back and hit the tip of their cue so they jerk their cue back immediately after contact with the cue ball and in essence never finish their stroke (or follow through). This is affectionately refered to as the Texas Lasso. If you make a point to finish your stroke and your tip hits below center, depending on the distance from the object ball, you will draw the ball. My $0.02 /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Fred Agnir
09-05-2003, 08:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> I pretty well cured this kind of problem in my own game by paying extra attention to where I was cueing, and then focusing most of my attention on exactly where the tip was striking the ball at impact, rather than focusing mostly on the object ball. <hr /></blockquote>
The Scott Lee approach.

Fred

Rod
09-05-2003, 08:28 PM
Doom,

I am by no means the gate keeper, hell I don't even know the location of the gate. Attack, I think not, just stating an opinion just as you did when you replied to me. The fellow has asked several questions and even got impatient. Common courtesy with a thank you or some type of gesture is in order. No not to me, to any of the 30 or 40 people that responded.

It's not the first time I've mentioned this here, and it won't be the last. Possibly I was a little strong, but I did ask a question in another post and didn't get a reply. Maybe others don't feel ignored or used but I felt he should have come back with a follow up, it's a natural common courtesy. Just the same as if you were at work or in a live conversation.

~~~ rod, still not to bugged

SPetty
09-06-2003, 06:15 AM
So, Jay, did you see these responses from the folks trying to help? Did you try any of them? Did anything work?

Jay, can you draw a ball now after all this help? If you can draw a ball now, Jay, where you couldn't before, what was the secret - what was the difference? Did you appreciate any of the folks here trying to help you with your question?

Rich R.
09-06-2003, 07:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>.....SPetty~~~Of course, what we're not telling you is that obviously, the real problem is that the tip diameter is too large and the tip is too flat to draw well... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I disagree. It's probably because he doesn't have tips made from albino pigs with exactly 13 layers and glued on with Duro Super-Gel that has not reached its expiration date....and not heated on the lathe. <hr /></blockquote>
You both know you are wrong. Why don't you admit it?
It is plane and simple. Jay is right handed and he is using a left handed cue. You just can't draw the cue ball that way.

Jay
09-06-2003, 08:14 AM
Well I apologize to those that feel ignored. The reason that I usually dont reply to my own posts is because I am usually busy with either work or school or out trying to work out the flaws that I am posting about, sometimes I only have the time to read the posts, unfortunately I can read faster than I can type..... as far as CCB etiquette, Rod, I was totally unaware of any, I simply use these boards as a means of gathering knowledge from the large diversity of people on here and I usually do thank everyone that posts and Im sure if you look at other posts that you have gathered to prove your point you would see that, usually the most people that reply to my posts have good enough advice that I can use and I really dont have to reply with any questions.....Now back to the task at hand, I have read all of your replies and I played last night and had a little better luck with my draws. I was always able to do it with no problem before but I just really got back into playing a few months ago after a two year break. I played well enough position on my shots that there were very few instances that I needed to draw the cue but when there was a shot where i needed to draw, I did most of the time. Based on what I can tell I think that I need to follow through more and lower my bridge hand. Ill continue to practice and THANKS to EVERYONE for all your help and excellent advice. If you have anymore advice please do post.

Sid_Vicious
09-06-2003, 08:30 AM
"I don't think it's the tip."

The tip? Naw, I can draw with any tip, including the jump cue tips. Drawing a ball is in the execution and timing of the stroke, and by avoiding the tendency to hammer or force the action. Once you yet drawing "down" it becomes second nature, no matter the equipment...sid

Qtec
09-06-2003, 08:59 AM
I agree. Mostly the problem lies in one's technique, not in the equipment.

Qtec

Keith Talent
09-06-2003, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> I pretty well cured this kind of problem in my own game by paying extra attention to where I was cueing, and then focusing most of my attention on exactly where the tip was striking the ball at impact, rather than focusing mostly on the object ball. <hr /></blockquote>
The Scott Lee approach.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Didn't realize that ... didn't mean to plagiarize. Perhaps that approach worked its way into my brain from reading posts here ... also found it useful in curing my anxieties about inside english. Or just applying the basic "keep your eye on the ball" axiom from baseball and tennis.

smoovestroke
09-06-2003, 07:16 PM
I tend to agree with you about people having the courtesy to reply to posters giving advice for a particular thread. If it is worth your effort to start a thread and people are kind enough to give advice, you should take the time to reply at some point. When I started playing pool, there were no forums like this. I had to learn by racking a lot balls and paying a lot of time. I wished I was able to get this kind of help back then!! Be appreciative!!!

Jay
09-06-2003, 11:19 PM
yes i too agree with the courtesy factor, however what i dont agree with is the fact people will rag on you if you dont pay them special attention, that you cause newbies like me to stop posting and asking for advice on these boards. I believe that I was falsely accused of not replying and giving thanks. If you look at my last post the morri v.s talisman. I thanked everyone before hand for all there replies that they have posted on my threads. When people reply to your posts only to get a response from you defeats the the purpose of asking for help. Why answer questions with more questions????? Why ask for help if you are just going to get flak????
On a lighter side I played again tonight, I played awesome and all my draw shots worked . My cousin and I played at Mizerak Billiards in North Palm Beach, and the Mizz himself was there playing cards. He seemed very nice and greeted me and my cousin when we walked into the place. I would have loved to seen him play but he was busy having fun playing cards.

bluewolf
09-07-2003, 05:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>
SPetty~~~Of course, what we're not telling you is that obviously, the real problem is that the tip diameter is too large and the tip is too flat to draw well... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This is funny. We were at Tim Scruggs shop yesterday to buy a cue. I can draw one to two diamonds, but he told me that i would be drawing better if my tips were not flat, and he promply fixed them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura

Rich R.
09-07-2003, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> We were at Tim Scruggs shop yesterday to buy a cue. <hr /></blockquote>
Good choice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Did you buy a completed one, or order one, to be built?

Sid_Vicious
09-07-2003, 08:37 AM
"and the tip is too flat to draw well"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The key words are "too flat." I have a Heubler SP left rather flast on purpose for breaking, and yet it draws fine. The CB is flying away from the point of contact immediately, so flattness does not seem to me to be the killer, stroke style does and attitude does....sid

bluewolf
09-07-2003, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> We were at Tim Scruggs shop yesterday to buy a cue. <hr /></blockquote>
Good choice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Did you buy a completed one, or order one, to be built? <hr /></blockquote>

No. We ordered one to be built. Honestly, I have been trying to get ww to get himself one. Instead he buys me one. Well, when he offered, no way I was turning that down. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It is cocobolo at the bottom, the top of the butt has birdeye maple with cocobolo points and it has a brown leather wrap. I dreamed about it alllllllllll night long. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

Rich R.
09-07-2003, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> No. We ordered one to be built. Honestly, I have been trying to get ww to get himself one. Instead he buys me one. Well, when he offered, no way I was turning that down. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
It is definitely WW's loss, or is he taking over your Blackheart?

bluewolf
09-07-2003, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> No. We ordered one to be built. Honestly, I have been trying to get ww to get himself one. Instead he buys me one. Well, when he offered, no way I was turning that down. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
It is definitely WW's loss, or is he taking over your Blackheart? <hr /></blockquote>

ww brother just started apa and wanted to purchase the blackheart. The blackheart is 60inches and rays brother is a big guy so perfect match. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

heater451
09-07-2003, 09:37 PM
Although I won't argue either side of the "netiquette" of replying to replies to one's thread, I will say that it's 'nice', in that people feel that their contribution was acknowledged.

As it is, I think it might have been premature to chastise you for not replying immediately. At the time of my writing this, the thread times were as follows:

Original Post: 09/05/03 11:27 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 09:20 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 10:25 PM
Reply: 09/06/03 12:20 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 09:31 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 04:17 PM
Reply: 09/06/03 10:30 AM
Reply: 09/06/03 10:59 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 04:04 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 03:32 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 08:58 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 10:28 PM
Reply: 09/06/03 09:16 PM
Reply: 09/07/03 01:19 AM
Reply: 09/06/03 08:15 AM
Reply: 09/06/03 10:14 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 01:53 PM
Reply: 09/07/03 07:45 AM
Reply: 09/07/03 10:37 AM
Reply: 09/07/03 10:11 AM
Reply: 09/07/03 11:21 AM
Reply: 09/07/03 11:52 AM
Reply: 09/07/03 02:52 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 02:31 PM
Reply: 09/06/03 09:34 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 11:59 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 11:59 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 02:37 PM
Reply: 09/05/03 11:40 AM
Reply: 09/05/03 11:38 AM

The thread began at 11:27am, and the admonishment came at 3:32pm on the same day. That's only four hours. (Oh, and your acknowledgement was 2 days later--not quite an eternity.)

When I was working at home and/or recently unemployed, I was posting all the time. Since I have a 'regular office job' now, and I'm blocked from the site there, I can only view/reply to posts when I get home, and before I walk the dogs, or crank up Q3, and I may even skip a day or two as well.

My point is, some people may not be able to reply to a post immediately.

(Apologies in advance, if this post seems "holier than thou", and for needlessly popping this thread to the top of the board again. . .)
==============================

pbr
11-21-2003, 11:45 PM
Just push don't hit through it, push through it.