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hogman
09-07-2003, 04:14 PM
I recently ran across the term "pique stroke" and I have no idea what that means. Can anyone enlighten me to what a pique stroke is?

Thank you,
Henry

Popcorn
09-07-2003, 04:26 PM
I have seen the term associated with straight rail billiards. I believe it is a very small masse.

Leviathan
09-07-2003, 06:52 PM
The pique shot is diagrammed at http://www.bommeltje.nl/nieuw/biljarten-index.html (go to biljart techniek, item 9). Looks like it's played with center-ball draw, but the explanation's in Dutch, so I could be missing something! Maybe Qtec would translate the passage for you...

DM

Fred Agnir
09-07-2003, 06:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hogman:</font><hr> I recently ran across the term "pique stroke" and I have no idea what that means. Can anyone enlighten me to what a pique stroke is?

Thank you,
Henry <hr /></blockquote>The simplest of definitions is that pique' stroke is a draw shot, but with a vertical (or closer to vertical) stroke.

Some people may confuse a pique' with a masse' in that you'd hit both vertically. A pique' necessarily draws off of an object ball by definition, while a masse' doesn't need any object ball to describe its motion.

Fred &lt;~~~ according to Jewett et al

Rod
09-07-2003, 09:18 PM
Learn something new every day, I think. However I didn't know I had used the stroke, until now. Of course there are old strokes that have been given a new name. Live and learn, I hope it never ends, well almost.

smoovestroke
09-07-2003, 09:39 PM
Well I went to that website but I don't speak Dutch. The way the Pique' shot was taught to me was that you hit down on the cb and make the cb go forward for a distance and then the cg spins back just like it hit the ob with draw except it doesn't hit an ob. Picture this as an application of it:
The cb and ob are both in the jaws of the corner pocket. Hit the cb in a straight downward stroke at 12:00. The cb will squirt out straight and then spin back to make the ob. Does this make sense?
I've been told that Raphael Martinez shoots the cb one-handed from the head of the table, makes the cb run out to the lower end of the table and before the cb hits the bottom rail, the cb spins back and hits the head rail. I've never seen it and have a hard time beleiving it but several people that I trust swear it happened like that. Incredible!
Of course Billiard players use this type of shot, especially carom players.

Qtec
09-07-2003, 11:55 PM
A Pique shot is without E and the Masse is with E. Same shot basically.

Q

Popcorn
09-08-2003, 02:20 AM
Quote
"Some people may confuse a pique' with a masse' in that you'd hit both vertically. A pique' necessarily draws off of an object ball by definition, while a masse' doesn't need any object ball to describe its motion."

Fred &lt;~~~ according to Jewett et al

That is not exactly correct. Correct spelling I believe is piquet, the cueball can back up without hitting anything. In straight rail billiards it would be used like this. Pretend the 1 and 9 are billiard balls
START(
%Am2V8%BL8P7%CJ7O4%DL8N2%EM7P1%FK7P1%GK7N8%HM7N8%I k8W0%JK8M6
%KJ7P7%LJ7N2%MK7Q3%NJ7Q9%OJ7M0%Pj6W3%_k2U9%`h5T9%a j0V6
)END

Fred Agnir
09-08-2003, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote
"Some people may confuse a pique' with a masse' in that you'd hit both vertically. A pique' necessarily draws off of an object ball by definition, while a masse' doesn't need any object ball to describe its motion."

Fred &lt;~~~ according to Jewett et al

That is not exactly correct. Correct spelling I believe is piquet, the cueball can back up without hitting anything. In straight rail billiards it would be used like this. Pretend the 1 and 9 are billiard balls
START(
%Am2V8%BL8P7%CJ7O4%DL8N2%EM7P1%FK7P1%GK7N8%HM7N8%I k8W0%JK8M6
%KJ7P7%LJ7N2%MK7Q3%NJ7Q9%OJ7M0%Pj6W3%_k2U9%`h5T9%a j0V6
)END

<hr /></blockquote>
I stand corrected. I misinterpreted the definition. No object ball is needed. So, can we say that a pique' shot is a masse' shot with no (or very little) side?

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks it must be "piqué"

Fred Agnir
09-08-2003, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Learn something new every day, I think. However I didn't know I had used the stroke, until now. Of course there are old strokes that have been given a new name. Live and learn, I hope it never ends, well almost. <hr /></blockquote>
I had the definition wrong. You don't need to hit off an object ball with a piqué shot. But, it does draw straight back, which is what differentiates it from a full massé, half massé, and a swerve shot.

Fred

Fred Agnir
09-08-2003, 06:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> In straight rail billiards it would be used like this. Pretend the 1 and 9 are billiard balls
START(<hr /></blockquote>

For those who might not know, the WEI table is also presented as a carom table here:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/caromtable.html

Fred

wolfdancer
09-08-2003, 09:58 AM
the Piquet shot, but were afraid to ask....

Fred, in Clive Cottingham's book "The Game of Billiards" (1964)..page 122, to be exact...there is an illustration and description of a Piguet shot
"The piquet shot is a draw shot which goes forward and then reverses without striking an object ball. the backward spin imparted to the cue ball is greater then the forward thrust, and overcomes friction forward.
To make the piquet shot, use an inclined cue (looks like 30 degrees)and the draw shot.