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bigbro6060
09-07-2003, 10:30 PM
How Much does your game drop off when NOT using your own cue ? Either using someone elses or a house cue

I would say for me it drops off around 30%, i'm not yet experienced enough to be able to adapt to a foreign cue quickly

What gets me is when you get casual bar bashers who say "if your a good player you should be able to play with any cue" whilst handing me a house cue which is warped, has a tip the size of the house and maintained as well as a rundown ghetto. When you explain to them that the better you get, the less you hit the cueball in the centre and that you need a decent cue to execute such shots, it goes over their head

Popcorn
09-08-2003, 02:54 AM
Quote
"What gets me is when you get casual bar bashers who say "if your a good player you should be able to play with any cue"

That is wrong, one of the differances between two players is, one can do things the other can't. If you take away someones cue, you may take away a little of what they can do. Especially if you put a junk cue in their hands.

Qtec
09-08-2003, 03:06 AM
I can pot with any cue, its the shape that goes to pieces, especially if the cue is too heavy. And you know, if you cant place the Qb where you want to, you have a big problem.
I always played with an 18oz 11mm rack cue. I have tried playing with a pool cue- 21oz/13mm tip. Hopeless. My Qb is all over the place. Because of the extra wieght, my timing is out.

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
09-08-2003, 06:04 AM
I can shoot ok with a house cue if it has a good tip but even then there is a definite drop-off. If the house cues have tips that are worn thin or the tips are so hard and glazed over they won't hold chalk, I usually just don't play. It's not worth the aggravation.

Wally~~occasionaly carries a tip scuffer and some chalk /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Fred Agnir
09-08-2003, 06:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> How Much does your game drop off when NOT using your own cue ? Either using someone elses or a house cue<hr /></blockquote>

Someone else's cue: 10-20%
House cue: 50%

Fred &lt;~~~ 75% in the morning

Ross
09-08-2003, 10:19 AM
I read somewhere a great (supposedly true) story about a strong playing hustler who played in the 1930's or '40's or so. Don't remember the name. The story goes like this:

He once challenged a local player to a game and the spot was that the hustler would not use a cue. Instead he would use a bar of soap to hit the cue ball. Of course, the other player took the bet and amazingly, the hustler beat him.

Years later someone said to the hustler "I heard that one time you beat a good player using only a bar of soap!"

The hustler replied, "Nah, that's not true...(pause) He wasn't that good."

Rod
09-08-2003, 10:33 AM
It depends on the cue. If the tip is good and weight close, not real bad but off to a degree. If the tip is junk and weight is off a lot then it won't be to purty.

Rod

Cueless Joey
09-08-2003, 11:12 AM
I've heard stories about Keith McReady using a broom handle to beat a few people.
That's just incredible. Efren played a good player some last pocket 8-ball at HT one time. He had to play one-handed or opposite handed. He still beat the the other guy.
My game drops maybe 20% with a house cue.
With a Meucci, it drops 75%. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I played with a friend's Tad yesterday. I played the same with it.

snipershot
09-08-2003, 12:22 PM
I'm alot like Qtech, I can pot with any other cue no problem but controling the CB is a different story, I just don't know how it is going to react using a cue of different weight with a different tip. Another difference is FEEL, you can use a really nice cue that belongs to a friend but the different feel will throw you off as well. I'd say my game drops 20-25% using a house cue.

Popcorn
09-08-2003, 01:19 PM
A lot of that stuff gets blown up over time. I played Jersey Red and he played me one handed to my two 9 ball. He played surprising good, but I beat him pretty easy. You hear about guys playing with broom handles or with a chair leg or something, trust me, they can't beat anyone who can play like that. There are some good one handed players, but even the best ones won't beat a good player, maybe at one pocket, but even then it would be awful tough. There is a limit to what a player can do, no matter how good they are. But you will still hear the stories from the guys who will swear they were there and saw it.

RedHell
09-08-2003, 01:34 PM
I played 2 Italian fellows for drinks once. Scotch doubles, 8-ball VNEA rules and with a broomstick. We beat them both time but they weren't good players.

Still it was funny as hell, chalking a broomstick is not an easy task /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bluewolf
09-08-2003, 02:09 PM
I dont notice any difference but then my cues are not better than house cues, just weighted a little better and decent tips. We will see how all of that changes when I get my scruggs cue. Might be a little better by then too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

Sid_Vicious
09-08-2003, 03:42 PM
Depends...I frequently pick up a house cue when I'm in the PH accidentally on my way somewhere, and shoot exceptionally well. Other times I'll have my favorite custom, cleaned and slickened, tip to perfection, AND SHOOT LIKE SH!T. ..sid~~~could be quilty of a mental hangup about having to have his personal pool equipment

dg-in-centralpa
09-08-2003, 03:48 PM
My game drops quite a bit if I have to use a house stick. I have yet to find one that is not warped or has a decent tip. If I use a friends cue, I'm not too bad as long as the cue is a production or custom.

DG - who's not fond of house cues

bigbro6060
09-08-2003, 06:13 PM
as others have stated it is definitely position which gets affected most.

And as we all know , it is positional skills which most separate the good players from the average players

griffith_d
09-08-2003, 07:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I've heard stories about Keith McReady using a broom handle to beat a few people.
That's just incredible. Efren played a good player some last pocket 8-ball at HT one time. He had to play one-handed or opposite handed. He still beat the the other guy.
My game drops maybe 20% with a house cue.
With a Meucci, it drops 75%. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I played with a friend's Tad yesterday. I played the same with it. <hr /></blockquote>

joey

I thought you said that if you played with a Meucci, it would burn your fingers?

Griff

griffith_d
09-08-2003, 07:40 PM
I would say mine does drop off with a house cue, but say,...if it is a friend's cue I might shoot better like the other night,....he had a great Schon that I could not miss with,....at least for awhile.

Griff

Jimmy B
09-09-2003, 02:11 AM
I own a few cues and whenever I switch I drop off about 30%, it's not the center ball hits that suffer, it's anything with R or L english. I play alot of throw shots and certain english shots, like balls on the rail, when I switch cues I miss these by 2 diamonds. Sometimes the switch does me good because it makes me concentrate on NOT useing english. I think there is also a certain amount of confidence you have when you know what you can do with the cue you're holding. JB

5balljoe
09-10-2003, 12:00 AM
I have 6 cues I shoot with on a regular basis (all good quality - albeit with a variety of weights, tips, tapers, and joints) and my compatriots consider me a teensy bit eccentric due to this; but I find I have much more problems adjusting to different tables than to which cue I'm using(especially when going to another locale which may have another type of cloth).. you can say with validity that I'm experienced with all these cues and can adapt faster, but I have found the table roll/speed is a greater determinate of that " difference between a run and a loss.. what say you?

TomBrooklyn
09-12-2003, 07:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> How Much does your game drop off when NOT using your own cue ? Either using someone elses or a house cue. ...i'm not yet experienced enough to be able to adapt to a foreign cue quickly.

When you explain to (bar-bashers) that the better you get, the less you hit the cueball in the centre and that you need a decent cue to execute such shots, it goes over their head. <hr /></blockquote>Other good cue: -10 to +10%
Sometimes I like them as much or better than mine.

Pool hall house cue (shaft a little chewed up) : -10 to -15%
The normal fluctuation in my game is a bigger factor than the cue. I do experience a little drop off though.

Bar room house cue (awful condition): -15 - 20%
Some bar cues are in horendous shape. Of course they will have an adverse effect. Luckily, everyone is shooting with the same cue. My barroom game also drops off sometimes because of the big cue ball, but this is usually more than counterbalanced by the smaller table. Ability to draw is strongly diminished.

Anyone that I can give a schooling to about cueing techniques I can beat anyway, so I don't generally explain anything to them unless they ask. However, I don't use much english, and I'm usually more concerned with making the ball than getting shape with any cue. Also, I have a Willards nickle shaper on my car key chain.

TomBk

ras314
09-12-2003, 07:40 AM
I didn't think is was fair to calk the broomstick. Also you should leave the sweeping part on. If you want to make it really fun, try this with a mop. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

TomBrooklyn
09-12-2003, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>my cues are not better than house cues, just weighted a little better and decent tips. We will see how all of that changes when I get my Scruggs cue.<hr /></blockquote>Most two piece production or custom made cue sticks are not inherently better than a house cue as far as playability goes. In fact, it could be argued that it is difficult for any cue maker to even equal the performance of the common one piece house cue.

As far as playability goes, the tip, weight, and balance of a cue stick are the main things that make anyone's personal cue stick better than a house cue. Your cues are neither weighted better nor have a better tip than a house cue; they are just weighted and have the kind of tip you like. If you happen to find a house cue that you like the feel of, it will shoot as well for you as any custom cue made to the same specifications, maybe better, because the house cue is integrally one piece whereas your cue is in two pieces with a mechanical joint which may not be as solid in feel.

One of the biggest factors you didn't mention is the condition of the shaft. Most house cue shafts, unless they are brand new are riddled with dings, whereas most people keep their personal cue stick shafts in very smooth and highly slick condition. That is a factor of abuse and lack of maintenance on the house cue though, not an inferior design, although house cue shaft wood which may have more widely spaced growth rings, may get dinged easier than higher quality shafts.

Virtually all cue sticks are made from the same kind of wood, maple, at least on the shaft end. Some exceptional players like Fast Larry Gunginger have shafts custom made from other wood, but very few players do that. Shaft wood is graded as Custom, A+, A, B+, B etc. Your Scruggs will probably come with an "A+" wood shaft, whereas the typical house cue stick will use "B" grade wood. Very few cue makers use the Custom grade of shaft wood. However, this probably has little effect on playability that could be noticed by other than a highly skilled player if at all; but it will affect how resistant the cue stick is to warping.

I don't think anyone believes the butt wood or the sharpness and evenness of any points or inlay affects the performance of the stick. Appearance is the major criteria in the selection of a butt. Using a wrap makes a difference in the feel of course, and you just won't find wraps on house cues, but for those who don't shoot with a wrap, that is not an issue.

The last major factor is psychology. If you think your cue stick is not good enough, you will not be able to shoot in a relaxed and confident manner which will adversely affect your game. Conversely, if you think your cue stick is great or at least satisfactory or not a factor, the confidence it induces can benefit your state of mind which will result in enhanced performance on the table. Once you find a cue stick you are comfortable with, you want to completely forget about it. It will inevitably hurt your game to be thinking about your cue stick while you are shooting.

TomBk

Fred Agnir
09-12-2003, 10:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Most two piece production or custom made cue sticks are not inherently better than a house cue as far as playability goes. In fact, it could be argued that it is difficult for any cue maker to even equal the performance of the common one piece house cue.
<hr /></blockquote>I'll disagree all points. The common house cue neither has the materials nor the construction techniques to compare with a common cuemaker-built two piece.

If anything, it could be argued that you would have to send a common house cue to a cuemaker to make it as playable as a common two piece cue.

The solidness of a cue is a sum of its solid parts. It is more than plauseable to believe that a one piece cue has inherent flaws as it is a natural non-homogenous entitity (or sum of intentities). A two-piece cue is generally made of materials that each have been selected for uniformity, and solidness. And yes, of course a two-piece cue can and will have flaws. But one of the main goals in making a custom cue is to do what nature cannot: make a tapered 58" dowel with the most integrity possible.

It is more than misconception when Byrne wrote that a one-piece is somehow more superior or solid. That, IMO, is extremely short sighted.

Fred &lt;~~~ didn't even mention the piss-poor ferrules

Fred Agnir
09-12-2003, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Some exceptional players like Fast Larry Gunginger have shafts custom made from other wood, but very few players do that. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh gag me, please. Why the plug for FL? There's an implication that he fooled you to think that only exception players would have shafts from other material other than maple? Mike Webb offers PurpleHeart shafts for anyone who wants one. I'm sure he's not the only one.

The player doesn't have to be exceptional. Ater all, look at Larry.

Fred &lt;~~~ not exceptional

SPetty
09-12-2003, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Mike Webb offers PurpleHeart shafts for anyone who wants one. I'm sure he's not the only one.<hr /></blockquote>Michael Givens, michaelangelo custom cues, makes purpleheart shafts. The fellow that owns a michaelangelo purpleheart break cue won both of the charity 9-ball break contests this past weekend. It's powerful and pretty!

He also makes a short jump shaft that screws into your shaft to make a jumper. Neat idea, I think.

Web site is http://www.customq.com/, but there's not much there except contact info.

TomBrooklyn
09-12-2003, 11:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>I'll disagree all points. The common house cue neither has the materials nor the construction techniques to compare with a common cuemaker-built two piece. A two-piece cue is generally made of materials that each have been selected for uniformity, and solidness.<hr /></blockquote>Fred,

I agree that most two piece cues are made of higher quality materials than a house cue, I even indicated that in my post above.

But I stipulate that the weight, balance, and tip of a cue stick are more important to the comfort of the user than the quality; and if the user is comfortable with a house cue that's in good condition, they will play better with it than the highest quality stick of the wrong weight or balance for their taste.

However this is only if they are not psychologically handicapped by a lack of confidence because they think the house cue will hit the ball in some inferior manner because it is inexpensive or not attractive enough.

TomBk
Mechanical Engineer

Rod
09-12-2003, 11:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I dont notice any difference but then my cues are not better than house cues, just weighted a little better and decent tips. We will see how all of that changes when I get my scruggs cue. Might be a little better by then too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

What about your Blackheart cue, Is that included in your statement? At any rate a cue isn't a magic wand, and they don't come with an operators manual, just like a 9/16" box end wrench! LOL

Rod
09-12-2003, 11:40 AM
Fred,

I'll just stay neutral cause this isn't going far. I will say that I have an early 1900 butterfly splice one peice Brusnwick. That cue plays as solid as anthing I've owned. Not all house cues are inferior wood or shaped like a wedge. I used it a lot for snooker and golf.

Most house cues in the last 2 decades were not "dead" yet before they put on the finish. Most of which were a poor quality of wood.

~~~Rod, hates it when I get sap on my fingers /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Fred Agnir
09-12-2003, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> That cue plays as solid as anthing I've owned.
<hr /></blockquote>I can't help but notice that you didn't say:

"That cue plays more solidly than anything I've owned."

It's a subtle difference, but important one. It is my contention that a one-piece cue inherently does not play more solidly than a two-piece.

Fred

Fred Agnir
09-12-2003, 01:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>
However this is only if they are not psychologically handicapped by a lack of confidence because they think the house cue will hit the ball in some inferior manner because it is inexpensive or not attractive enough. <hr /></blockquote>For this discussion, statements of "psychology" are a distraction. Nobody's talking about that.

So, physically, is a house cue inferior or superior? You said "common house cue." A common house cue uses inferior plastic ferrules. Normally doesn't have the same type of level of seasoned wood. It's prone to warping. It's cut &amp; paste spliced. If there are voids (both of my Valley Supremes have voids at the splices), they are simply filled with epoxy if filled at all. The voids (blowouts during manufacturing v-sawing)are common. If there are voids hidden in the shaft wood interior, nobody in the manufacturing process would even be looking (or hearing). Are these the superior cues you are talking about? These are the "common house cues" afterall.

"One piece" does not inherently mean "more solid." That's my point. The art of making a solid cue includes the correct choice of materials, and the superior processing of those materials. In this case, it's the cutting and the assembly techniques. Today's house cues (which are normally two pieces of wood spliced together, BTW) do not undergo the same scrutiny in their manufacturing process.

Fred

TomBrooklyn
09-12-2003, 03:07 PM
Argh matey,

I didn't say house cues are better made, I said you'll shoot better with a house cue of your preferred weight, balance and taper, than a well made custom cue that is not to your liking in weight, balance and taper. i.e. weight, balance and taper are more significant factors to playing well than fine woods and craftsmanship. Now if you have both, thats toppers.

Rod
09-12-2003, 03:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> That cue plays as solid as anthing I've owned.
<hr /></blockquote>I can't help but notice that you didn't say:

"That cue plays more solidly than anything I've owned."
<hr /></blockquote>

Quite right, of course I can't say my pool playing cue is better than the one peice. They both serve there purpose, one for pool and the other for snooker. By todays standards your probably right in most cases.

Rod

Fred Agnir
09-13-2003, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Argh matey,

I didn't say house cues are better made, I said you'll shoot better with a house cue of your preferred weight, balance and taper, than a well made custom cue that is not to your liking in weight, balance and taper. i.e. weight, balance and taper are more significant factors to playing well than fine woods and craftsmanship. Now if you have both, thats toppers. <hr /></blockquote>

NO, matey, you said:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>In fact, it could be argued that it is difficult for any cue maker to even equal the performance of the common one piece house cue. <hr /></blockquote>

This is the sentence that you wrote that I completely disagree with. In fact, it's blatantly incorrect for every reason that I've already posted. Well, sure, people could argue it, but they'd be foolishly incorrect, or plain misleading the truth.

Fred

Chris Cass
09-14-2003, 12:04 AM
Hi Rod,

I'm not sure but I think a Szamboti cue comes with a weapons idenifications card. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I could be wrong?

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SPetty
09-14-2003, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>...I think a Szamboti cue comes with a weapons idenifications card.<hr /></blockquote>Obviously the weapon of choice in this book:
http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/30/64/0873645456-resized200.jpg

Chalks Billiards
09-15-2003, 08:31 PM
In my pool hall we only use Dufferin D 1300 highline one piece cues. They are the best that you can buy and they are made from Canadian Maple. We tip them with Le Pro's and they are cleaned and made smooth once a week. I can shoot very well with any one I pick off the rack. Can I shoot better with my 2000.00 Schon.........yes but I can still run racks with the house cues. They have a very firm hit, similar to a Joss. In my estimation, a good player might lose 10-15 percent at best playing with one of these cues.

magicman
09-15-2003, 10:56 PM
I saw Fast Larry at the Hopkins expo ran a rack of 9 ball with a mop handle with no tip, then draw table length and jump over a full ball with the Mop, He even made two balls shooting a masse with it. It's amazing what these guys can do with a mop or a broom, don't every play anybody who offers you such a game. This is a very old hustle, it's been around for a long time. I saw one guy run 12 balls using only his nose once.

magicman
09-15-2003, 11:09 PM
House cues in pool halls are normally pretty good, the ones in bars are trash. They will throw your game off by 50% to sometimes you cannot run two balls. You see warped cues, screw on tips, broken ferrules, trash chalk, it's simply awful. You cant take your expensive new custom cue in a bar unless you are planning on playing he haw. If you want to gamble a little or play for some beers, you don't want to scare any one off. I keep a really nice sneaky pete in my trunk, I walk in with it with no case and hide it by my leg so nobody see's me enter with it and screw it together when nobody is looking. I play and keep it in my hand so nobody will ask to play with it or try to pick it up. I bring in a new piece of master chalk, when I use it, it goes in my pocket and I never leave it on the table. Doing this, gives me a hugh advantage over the poor people using those trash cues and they do not pick me up as a hustler normally. When and if they do, then, it's usually too late for them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jimmy B
09-16-2003, 03:41 AM
I own shafts made from Ebony, Purpleheart, and Ash, along with many other laminated and spliced types, none play as good as a normal solid dense straight grained maple shaft. I even own some bottom of the lake water logged shafts, it's all bunk and huiey. BTW I'm exceptional. JB

ras314
09-16-2003, 12:43 PM
Ye Gads. Did that mop happen to be wet? The slap in the butt every stroke can get distracting. Not to mention the crazey wobble on the follow thru. Oh wait, does FL have a follow thru?

Fred Agnir
09-16-2003, 01:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote magicman:</font><hr> I saw Fast Larry at the Hopkins expo ran a rack of 9 ball with a mop handle with no tip, then draw table length and jump over a full ball with the Mop, He even made two balls shooting a masse with it. <hr /></blockquote> I'm glad he can do that with a mop, cuz we sat around and watched him half the day at the Expo, and he never looked like he could do anything of substance with a normal cue.

Fred &lt;~~~ IMO, of course

Wally_in_Cincy
09-16-2003, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote magicman:</font><hr> I saw Fast Larry at the Hopkins expo ran a rack of 9 ball with a mop handle with no tip, then draw table length and jump over a full ball with the Mop, He even made two balls shooting a masse with it. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm glad he can do that with a mop, cuz we sat around and watched him half the day at the Expo, and he never looked like he could do anything of substance with a normal cue.

Fred &lt;~~~ IMO, of course <hr /></blockquote>

I think I know who magicman is. Look at the post times and the attitude.

Wally~~forum detective (who's sorry Fred wasted a half a day /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

bluewolf
09-16-2003, 08:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
Laura <hr /></blockquote>

What about your Blackheart cue, Is that included in your statement? At any rate a cue isn't a magic wand, and they don't come with an operators manual, just like a 9/16" box end wrench! LOL <hr /></blockquote>

No rod. The blackheart is beautiful. It just turned out too heavy and too long for me, so I am going to have to sell it. I hate it, because it is beautiful but that is life. It was a little heavier than what I was used to and I did not realize that amount of weitht would make a difference. It is 19 6. I was used to 19 and now have stabilized at 18 5.

Laura

Rod
09-16-2003, 09:13 PM
Laura,

From 19 to 19.6 is huge. Being at 18.5 now is a big swing the other direction. I think being a little light is best, you can always add weight if necessary. Of course in many cases you can have weight taken out.

Rod

HALHOULE
09-17-2003, 07:31 AM
Players who pocket very well usually have a good day every day. That should be a wake-up call to players who play badly. Have someone show you how to make any shot accurately each and every time. It is a very simple game.

HALHOULE
09-17-2003, 07:48 AM
I am curious about the percentages being quoted, concerning the drop-off in playability with various cues. What is the method that calculates whether the drop-off is 35 percent vs 30 percent, or 15 percent,or whatever. Until this time, I was completely unaware that such a formula existed. Would you elaborate upon this point. I think it is an incredible breakthrough. Remarkable feat, to say the least!

Chris in NC
09-17-2003, 08:30 AM
I don't know, because I would never play without my cue, at least not in a session that meant anything! I do know that if I did have to play with a strange cue, because I play with a Predator I would avoid playing any left or right english as much as possible due to the difference in cue-ball deflection/squirt in Predator shafts vs. other shafts. - Chris in NC

pooltchr
09-17-2003, 08:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> What is the method that calculates whether the drop-off is 35 percent vs 30 percent, or 15 percent,or whatever. Until this time, I was completely unaware that such a formula existed. Would you elaborate upon this point. I think it is an incredible breakthrough. Remarkable feat, to say the least! <hr /></blockquote>

It's really a simple formula. Take the square footage of the playing area of the table divided by the number of pockets and multiply by the number of balls being used in the game. (not counting the cue ball) Now take the square root of the number of beers consumed during the match, multiplied by 4.3 to get the slop factor. Add the two together and divide by the number of shots missed due to being sharked by the waitress with the really short skirt passing through your line of sight and there you have it. It's a simple formula.....really!

Fred Agnir
09-17-2003, 09:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> Players who pocket very well usually have a good day every day. <hr /></blockquote> And if he's a crappy position player, he's still supposed to have a good day?

Fred &lt;~~~ the world is filled with crappy position players

HALHOULE
09-21-2003, 10:35 AM
A GOOD PLAYER ALWAYS HAS A GOOD DAY. POCKETING OR POSITION.