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View Full Version : 8-hours of the U S Open on pay-per-view



BCn
09-09-2003, 01:04 PM
4 feature matches, including the semi and final, from the U S Open will be available on Dish Network pay-per-view, while iNDemand pay-per-view will carry the semi-final and final starting October 26.

The schedule is as follows:
Dish Network:
Sunday, October 12 @ 8:00 PM EST Match #1
Sunday, October 19 @ 8:00 PM EST Match #2
Sunday, October 26 @ 8:00 PM EST Semi-Final
Sunday, November 2 @ 8:00 PM EST Championship

iNDemand:
Sunday, October 26 @ 8:00 PM EST Semi-Final
Sunday, November 2 @ 8:00 PM EST Championship

We're expanding the coverage and distribution this year, because our pay-per-view partners still see value in the product, the sport and the market. If we show growth from last year’s performance we'll be one step closer to developing a much broader TV package, similar to NFL Sunday Ticket, MLS Shootout, NHL Center Ice, etc.

This type of package would feature a series of top pro tournament events, which in turn would help increase the prize funds for each of those events. As a result, the players, event promoters, the fans and the industry as a whole will benefit.

The event is also available to commercial establishments. Subscriber information and purchasing details are available through dishnetwork.com, indemand.com, billiardclub.net, and q-masters.com.

Dish Network will begin marketing and promoting the event in late September to its 8 million plus satellite customers via 30-second commercial spots, produced by BCn, and advertise the event in the Dish Entertainment Magazine and their website dishnetwork.com

iNDemand will promote the event through TV spots, mail inserts to their 27 million cable homes nationwide and through their website.

BCn is promoting the event on the Billiard Club television weekly TV series along with ads in industry publications and marketing through its network of sponsor partners.

For more information contact BCn at 1-866-774-8770 or visit us online at www.billiardclub.net (http://www.billiardclub.net)

Thanks for your support

cycopath
09-09-2003, 01:24 PM
So each match is 2 hours long? Wasn't the finals 3 hours long last year? Does that mean all the matches will be on shot clocks?

Ken
09-09-2003, 07:54 PM
You're kidding, right. The US Open, last time I looked, is in SEPTEMBER?! Last year I believe it was broadcast LIVE (as it happened?). So you're telling me now I can see it in November? And you're telling me that this is "because our pay-per-view partners still see value in the product"? Just how much value is it that they see?

So by paying for this pay-per-view like I did last year I can have another "big impact on the future of pool on TV"? I'm sorry, but this just does not cut the mustard.
KenCT

pooldaddy9
09-09-2003, 08:21 PM
I'll just buy the vidio from Accu-stats so I can see the whole match a whole lot sooner....

Irish
09-09-2003, 08:53 PM
Wooptyfrickindoo. That is the lamest thing I have ever read. $10 just to watch a match that is long since over on pay per view. Oh and better yet it is capped at 2 hours long so that you screw over the tournament and final from being like it should be (with no shotclock).

Gee, I hope the NFL learns from you guys and decides to show the superbowl 2 months after the fact on PPV, that would be sooooo cool.

You are not helping this sport in the slightest doing crap like that. If you can not show it live on TV then show it 2 months after the fact FREE. Pay Per View is going to suck for a tournament long since over and you are going to bloodywell deserve the crappy amount of buyers you get. The stupid thing is the Dish network will look at it as a failure in the sport and not in the retarded way it is being presented.

Ken
09-09-2003, 09:15 PM
I'm sorry but pay-per-view is for live, as they happen, events. I applaud BCn's work in getting pool on TV but I don't understand this series. We see events that are delayed for a month or more regularly on ESPN and now someone has decided we should pay for delayed telecasts?

I subscribed to the Fox Sports series and got about 10 different channels that mostly showed the same stuff but I got Sunshine and Empire that carried BCn. Then along came the World Pool series that required that I pay for another Fox channel on a higher tier of Dish. Dish Network said I would still get the Fox stations that had BCn but all I get now is Fox New England. They lied to me.

So now I have a higher tier of Dish (which has no pool but everyone seems to want for the other channels) for $10 a month extra. In order to get the BCn again I have to add the other 9 Fox sports channels that all show the same stuff, for another $6 a month. I'm sick of this. I can live without it but if they keep showing those Simonis commercials that I'm in I demand royalties!
KenCT

Genie
09-09-2003, 09:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> You're kidding, right. The US Open, last time I looked, is in SEPTEMBER?! Last year I believe it was broadcast LIVE (as it happened?). So you're telling me now I can see it in November? And you're telling me that this is "because our pay-per-view partners still see value in the product"? Just how much value is it that they see?

So by paying for this pay-per-view like I did last year I can have another "big impact on the future of pool on TV"? I'm sorry, but this just does not cut the mustard.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

Amen! If this were a LIVE show then that would be one thing but a month later?????

I'll have to admit that BCn should get some effort points but we need PPV to broadcast live events just like wrestling, boxing, football, etc.

Qtec
09-09-2003, 10:30 PM
$10 for a 2 hour match LIVE would be expensive.
$10 for a 2 hour match when everybody knows the result is a joke.

Sorry, this is doomed for failure.

Just because pool players are starved of Pro pool on TV, doesnt mean to say they will buy anything.

Where is the excitement?

Q

Brady_Behrman
09-09-2003, 10:49 PM
We as a pool community should do all we can to ensure pools growth. I speculate the the networks are watching the traffic of the event.

Anytime you can do for pool you should. I dont care if Kato and ken were playing on PPV, I would buy it..Just to help pool's growth. Even if i didnt know them..

This industry is rough and I applaud all who try to make it happen!

Without Exposure, The sport will NEVER GO ANYWHERE !

This industry is far too small to nit pick..

STICK TOGETHER GUYS! HELP POOL Grow..!

Reviews and pool's following is what its all about!

my 2 cents
Brady Behrman

pooljunkie73
09-10-2003, 12:21 AM
tap tap tap

Kent Mc.

BCn
09-10-2003, 01:02 AM
Last year’s pay-per-view had a 3-hour satellite window we were required to fill. The match itself took about 2.5 hours because we extended the finals to a Race to 13, in order to fill the time. We did this based on consultation from several sources, including the promoter, the players, the announcers, and the production staff. The match itself was a great one and almost went hill-hill. Good thing it didn’t or we would have been screwed. Better to be lucky than good any day. We learned and we’re getting better.

Remove the interviews (which we put on the front end, big mistake) and keep the race to 11, which is what the tournament rules call for anyway and two hours is ample time for the match. More time, uncut commercial-free, than pool’s been given on any other network ever! Incidentally, 10 of the 12 preliminary matches, including the semi from last year’s event were played within 2 hours and there was no shot clock

We’ve wrestled with the PPV providers since last year’s event and frankly they don’t care anymore about pool than they do the Jerry Springer reruns, or the Naked News TV, or the Legends of Pro Wrestling shows that are littering their offer pages. All they care about is viewers and the U S Open did well enough last year to warrant another attempt. So they do see value or it wouldn’t be on. You can’t just send iNDemand a program and expect it to be on pay-per-view, although they get those calls all the time I’m told. So, if you can make it happen, go for it.

The 2002 U S Open actually did better pay-per-view numbers with the replays last year than it did with the live event. And the vast majority of those that purchased have no clue that this discussion form even exists. Bridging the gap to this unknown population is key. All things considered and evaluated, we’re making this move based on the opportunity to expand the reach of the market. So, it is benefiting the sport, because we reach a segment of the population that simply likes pool, but may not own a cue or frequent a poolroom or take part in the discussions here. And besides, there are more of them, than there are of you.

However, pool still has not proven itself on this stage, live and otherwise. We would love to have it live, every match. We even created scenarios that would allow for a live final and one-day tape-delayed preliminary matches. Unfortunately, they (PPV) don’t work that way. And having only the finals live, does not make economic sense yet. There are many logistical and production issues that come into play. Financing the whole effort is a big factor.

Bottom line, when 10,000 of you decide to pony up $59.95 for a billiard sports package on pay-per-view, you’ll get all the live pool you can handle. Until that time, you’ve got to prove or should I say WE have got to prove that pool will survive on TV with something other than the ESPN reruns. Have you noticed they have been playing a lot more pool lately? You’re welcome.

We’re putting up the financing, we’re putting out the effort, and we’re dedicating the time. All we’re asking you to do is to consider $9.95 or better yet $29.95. If that’s too hard for you to do, then don't do it.

By the way, the only way to see this event is to go there and take part in the experience, watch it on pay-per-view starting two weeks after the event or place your order with Accu-Stats and wait 3 month. Your choice.

Thanks.

Rob

Popcorn
09-10-2003, 01:20 AM
Are there going to be any improvements we will see over what you have been showing? Will we be able to hear the balls, or will they still seem like they are in a sound proof booth? Will any of this be on sunshine?

bigbro6060
09-10-2003, 02:09 AM
Not critising the coverage because i'm sure it's good by american standards but cmon

Matchroomsports show just about all of the Mosconi Cup plus hours and hours of the World Pool champs plus World pool masters for free ! (well on normal PPV)

I couldnt imagine paying for Pool on a PPV, it's like paying for some tennis matches on PPV, it's just not right

Wally_in_Cincy
09-10-2003, 06:53 AM
This is still less expensive than buying the Accu-stats tapes. I'm in.

Ken
09-10-2003, 07:27 AM
Brady,
I agree with you and I will probably buy it even though I expect to see the matches live at the Convention Center. I would consider it a way of directly voting for pool on TV by putting up the money and getting counted. Nevertheless, this package is of limited value. I guess it's far cheaper than Accustats, however.

I bought the Fox sports channels for a while but there's no way for anyone to tell I did it for the pool. At least with this package they know I want pool on TV.

It's just that after a live broadcast last year this seems to be a step backward and less for the money.

I assume that it's Rackmup playing Kato that you would pay for. If I played Kato it might get very ugly.
KenCT

Kato
09-10-2003, 08:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> I assume that it's Rackmup playing Kato that you would pay for. If I played Kato it might get very ugly.
KenCT <hr /></blockquote>

I assure you that is Rackemup vs Kato were on pay per view we could get 10-20 households across the country paying 10's of pennies a piece /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don't worry, you'll get your chance, we meet again in October.

On the flip side. Even though I'm plunking down my ducketts to go to the U.S. Open I will buy the pay per view and video tape it for posterity.

Kato

Brady_Behrman
09-10-2003, 10:27 PM
"$10 for a 2 hour match LIVE would be expensive."

It costs 10.00 to go watch it live, Why is 10 too much to pay for Pool on TV. Is it worth it to you to see pool progress. Even your 10.00 has an impact on the future of pool. Anny up!

POOL WILL NOT GO ANYWHERE without TV, even if they are hurdles..

"Where is the excitement"

The excitement lies on your TV!

You obviously have a love for pool otherwise you would be in the microsoft forum..whats 10 bucks to watch AWESOME 9-BALL production?

Qtec
09-10-2003, 11:49 PM
Brady, of course I'm a fan, otherwise I wouldnt care. We all want to see pool on tv. I just dont think this is the right way to do it.
Years ago, I could watch snooker all day long. Now , I fall asleep! To hold my attention , it needs to be exciting.
I dont know if you know this,but the snooker WC final between S. Davis and D Taylor had more than 13 million viewers watching the last session. Steve had built up such a big lead it looked like it was all over, but Dennis kept plugging away. Steve only needs one frame to win, Dennis needs 7.Eventually Dennis wins18-17 on the last ball of the match.
The suspense,the pressure and the tension caused 13 million to stay up to 2am .You lose all these factors when you broadcast 2 tweeks after the event.

I can see pool fans paying the money but how do you sell it to the public?
Do you really think Joe Public will shell out $30 to watch an event that that has already taken place and everybody knows who won?

2weeks or 10 months. Whats the difference.

Just my 2ct

Q

BCn
09-11-2003, 01:20 AM
We don't think its the right way to do it either, but at this juncture it's the best option. We want LIVE programming as much as anyone, but you, the pool viewership, isn't large enough yet to justify it. So if you and everyone else out there would support the effort and spread the word, the viewership numbers will grow and the sports package I keep referring to becomes a reality. Then, the element of LIVE POOl is easier to accomplish.

However, we can't just do one live match from a big event to make a few thousands people happy, we need a multiple factor to make this financially beneficial. So put up your $9.95 and consider yourself a member.

I can guarantee you this, when the PPV begins to pay off the players will make more money, which brings in more players, more viewers, more TV, more product sales, more sponsors, etc, etc. We're building the foundation.

Also, keep in mind the PPV is in the US market only and no offense intended, but there's never been a time in this country where even 13 people stayed up late and watched snooker. We don't need 13 million to watch. We don't even expect 13,000. If we hit 10,000, everything changes. If we don't, it's a sad statement for pool.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think Joe Public will shell out $30 to watch an event that that has already taken place and everybody knows who won? <hr /></blockquote>
Who's everybody? Add the CCBers to AZbilliards.com, Insidepool.com and the other sites out there and collectively there's 5-10 thousands. Now add the subscriber base to BD, IP and P&amp;B and you have another unique 30K maybe. But those people won't even receive their magazine with information about the event until mid-November or December.
[ QUOTE ]
2weeks or 10 months. Whats the difference.<hr /></blockquote>
There's a big difference. 10 months from now you'll be able to see the whole tournament on cable, edited of course, with commercials, etc. Every day except Saturdays, between October 12 and November 9 the U S Open will be featured on PPV TV, in its purest form, uninterupted and commercial free. Enjoy.

bigbro6060
09-11-2003, 01:54 AM
Good on you for all your efforts but i still think that a PPV for a delayed sporting event says

"Only for desperate hardcore fans"

In the Marketplace, when trying to get the dollars from Joe Generic Sportfan, you have to compete with free to air sports and things like Oscar De La Hoya v Shane Mosley live PPVs. what chance does delayed Pool have ?

For say $30 - $40 US for a delayed event i would expect something like 40-50 hours of matches

Honestly why not do a deal with Matchroomsports ?

Get them to beam it live to Europe and help with the costs that way

Qtec
09-11-2003, 02:09 AM
Look, I am sure you are doing your best and I am sure its not easy to get a foot in between the wrestling, etc etc. So I am on your side, but its a sad day when you cant get 10,000 out of a pop of almost 300 million. People ouside the US have the impression that 9-Ball is a big game in the US. I think the 'Hustler'and 'The CoM' has a lot to do with it.

Best of luck,

Q

BCn
09-11-2003, 07:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In the Marketplace, when trying to get the dollars from Joe Generic Sportfan, you have to compete with free to air sports and things like Oscar De La Hoya v Shane Mosley live PPVs. what chance does delayed Pool have ?<hr /></blockquote>De La Hoya makes millions every fight, poolplayers are lucky to get $10K. So all is relative.
[ QUOTE ]
For say $30 - $40 US for a delayed event i would expect something like 40-50 hours of matches<hr /></blockquote>That's exactly what we're moving towards, but throw live events into the picture and we got something special.
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly why not do a deal with Matchroomsports ?
Get them to beam it live to Europe and help with the costs that way <hr /></blockquote>We're working with them now. All in due time.

BCn
09-11-2003, 07:14 AM
Q:

Compared to other big time sports, (baseball, football, basketball, hockey... the list goes on, Pro and College) 9-Ball doesn't even register in the minds of sports fans, much less the general public. It's just not a big enough business yet. Competing with wrestling, boxing, Ultimate Fighting, Girls Gone Wild, etc...on PPV is an easier task, and will prove more profitable for the player, the faster we get to that a consistant viewer base. We're new and making our way. No other entity has ever gone this route, with others believe that ESPN will be the saving grace for the sport. Maybe some day it will, but now its not.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-11-2003, 07:30 AM
I've always been of the opinion that if pool was on every week at the same time casual viewers might get in the habit of watching it. As it is now the only casual viewers pool gets is the channel surfer who stops to watch.

Steve Lipsky
09-11-2003, 08:09 AM
BCn,

I have a few questions. Would you please explain why the matches can't be shown first live and then taped (at a later date)? Is it because a live broadcast needs more sophisticated (read: expensive) equipment at the tournament site? I really have no idea about this kind of stuff.

Also, you have mentioned that PPV will eventually help to put more money in the players' pockets. How exactly will this happen? Will PPV actually add money to the tournament, so all cashing players can share in the added exposure - or will they only give a fee to the handful of players involved in the taped matches?

Thanks,
Steve

Qtec
09-11-2003, 08:34 AM
What the APA should have done is find a pool playing rich guy and get him to put a few mil up to get the Open on free channels. [ free for the viewer ].




As far as I know, highlights of the Open [ not sure ] and highlights of the Mosconi Cup [ sure ] will be shown over here by the same national sender.[ Rtl5 ].



There is always interest when a Dutch player does well in a sport. One of the advantages of being a small country I suppose.

Next week I will know for sure about the Open. Wouldnt that be something if I can see it live and you guys over there cant.

Q http://http://members.lycos.nl/agli2/hpbimg/earl%20-ref%20-steve%20small.JPG

cycopath
09-11-2003, 08:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BCn:</font><hr>9-Ball doesn't even register in the minds of sports fans, much less the general public. It's just not a big enough business yet. Competing with wrestling, boxing, Ultimate Fighting, Girls Gone Wild, etc...<hr /></blockquote>
What about Girls Gone Wild playing 9ball?

Rich R.
09-11-2003, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I've always been of the opinion that if pool was on every week at the same time casual viewers might get in the habit of watching it. As it is now the only casual viewers pool gets is the channel surfer who stops to watch. <hr /></blockquote>
We can't even get ESPN to show pool matches when they schedule them. A large percentage of the time, they decide that something else is more important and they don't show the pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Rich R.
09-11-2003, 10:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Next week I will know for sure about the Open. Wouldnt that be something if I can see it live and you guys over there cant.<hr /></blockquote>
I will be seeing it live, without commercials. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BCn
09-11-2003, 03:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
BCn,
I have a few questions. Would you please explain why the matches can't be shown first live and then taped (at a later date)? Is it because a live broadcast needs more sophisticated (read: expensive) equipment at the tournament site? I really have no idea about this kind of stuff.

Also, you have mentioned that PPV will eventually help to put more money in the players' pockets. How exactly will this happen? Will PPV actually add money to the tournament, so all cashing players can share in the added exposure - or will they only give a fee to the handful of players involved in the taped matches?

Thanks,
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
Steve,
Good questions.
Couple of reasons. Bandwidth and cost mostly. Dish can't yet justify the amount of bandwidth over a five day period. DirecTV won't justify it all until the numbers are higher. Besides the daily cost of a satellite truck with uplink and satellite time, technician, etc is cost prohibitive. Also, the number of replays would be deminished, cutting back on total buys and revenue.

The formula for adding money to the prize fund or compensation to the players based on performance is not yet developed. But, that is the intent. So the viewer can directly impact the total purse in the very near future.

bolo
09-11-2003, 05:02 PM
Quote
"Without Exposure, The sport will NEVER GO ANYWHERE !"

Whos fault is it?

Quote
'We as a pool community should do all we can to ensure pools growth. I speculate the networks are watching the traffic of the event."

If this is true, then make it free and get a bigger number. Whose responsibility is it? I have spent tens of thousands of dollars playing pool and buying equipment over the years. I don't think it is the responsibility of the average Joe in the street to try to make pool succeed for the pros. You need an organization of room owners and equipment suppliers who should be underwriting things like this. Let the players play and share in the success or failure of the event. Does everyone expect a guarantee of some kind? I am just being honest. I am afraid I don't share your opinion that the fan owes pool anything. Room owners have been making nice livings for many years and few ever put anything back into the sport, they just take your money. Half of the room owners I run into don't even know anything about the game. You ask them for another piece of chalk, and they will answer "what is wrong with the piece I gave you?" There are plenty of people floating around that make a nice living in the pool industry and they are the ones that will benefit and they are the ones who should pay, not the fan. If I chose to get the pay per view, it would be because I had an interest and it was a good value, but not because I felt an obligation. Just my opinion.

rackmup
09-11-2003, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr>
On the flip side. Even though I'm plunking down my ducketts to go to the U.S. Open I will buy the pay per view and video tape it for posterity. <hr /></blockquote>

And just who is Posterity? What did you do...? Go out and get another girlfriend?

Regards,

Ken (losing all his pool playing buddies to women and thanks to the Open, I have NO ride to Breaker's.)

Kato
09-12-2003, 06:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>
And just who is Posterity? What did you do...? Go out and get another girlfriend?

Regards,

Ken (losing all his pool playing buddies to women and thanks to the Open, I have NO ride to Breaker's.) <hr /></blockquote>

That'll be the day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Kato~~~sorry about the ride, I'll make it up to ya.

Steve Lipsky
09-12-2003, 07:54 AM
Bolo,

Great post.

- Steve

9 Ball Slim
09-12-2003, 03:53 PM
Well, from a marketng standpoint, I think this deal is doomed to failure, because the target audience is small and as you can see from some of the above posts, demanding, but I'm gonna' buy it as a show of support for the effort.

If this effort gets no support, they won't get a second chance to do it right /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
09-13-2003, 09:56 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap...

C.C.~~doesn't support any hall that doesn't.