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ras314
09-12-2003, 07:24 AM
With all the posts on jumping I would like to know the rational for having to hit the cb above the center. It is harder on your tip and the table. Also more diffucult to learn. Heck, I jump the cb all the time trying to get a little extra draw. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For that matter why are "push" shots illegal?

Wally_in_Cincy
09-12-2003, 07:37 AM
If you "scoop" the cb in order to jump, the cb hits the ferrule, which is illegal. Is that your question?

Sid_Vicious
09-12-2003, 07:38 AM
I seldom see people using long cues to jump actually hitting above the equator. I've never called them for it, but by definition of the rule I guess I could. My thoughts have been like yours...the masse hops some anyway when striking the CB down near the felt for the swerve efffect. I personally feel that they are hitting legal as long as thay are elevated and not striking right at the pinpoint area that the CB is resting.

Good question ras...sid

ras314
09-12-2003, 07:50 AM
Well, if the ferrul actually hits the cb it should be illeagal I suppose. I don't think that has to happen simply by hitting the cb low. Are miscues illegal? Quite often the ferrul slapping the ball is what makes the lould noise. Never heard of that being a BIH foul. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Sid_Vicious
09-12-2003, 07:55 AM
Slo-mo photography shows double hits during many "legal" strokes. Imagine though how you would begin to start calling fouls duting miscues and the such. It would be far too messy to even start(imo.) sid~~~current rules work to keep the peace

ChrisW
09-12-2003, 09:10 AM
Intentional miscues are illeagal, if the hits the ferrul or not.

Chris

ras314
09-12-2003, 10:26 AM
Kinda thought maybe the "above the equator with elevated butt" rule was to protect the lights. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Anyway I would like to know why and when this rule started if anybody knows. Lot of pool halls have "no jumps or masse's" signs posted. Makes sense to me.

Rod
09-12-2003, 12:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Kinda thought maybe the "above the equator with elevated butt" rule was to protect the lights. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Anyway I would like to know why and when this rule started if anybody knows. Lot of pool halls have "no jumps or masse's" signs posted. Makes sense to me. <hr /></blockquote>


Here is the deal. You need to separate the term, "below center" and "digs under". Below center is just a description "where" the action of digging or scooping under takes place. It does not mean, hitting it low is a foul.

3.26 ILLEGAL JUMPING OF BALL
It is a foul if a player strikes the cue ball below center (“digs under” or “lofts” the cue ball) and intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of the table in an effort to clear an obstructing ball. Such jumping action may occasionally occur accidentally, and such “jumps” are not to be considered fouls on their face; they may still be ruled foul strokes, if for example, the ferrule or cue shaft makes contact with the cue ball in the course of the shot.

Don't read any part of rule 3.26 into 3.27 unless of course it happens. Own it's own 3.27 says, "it is legal to cause the cue ball to rise off the bed of the table by elevating the cue stick on the shot, and forcing the cue ball to rebound from the bed of the table"

No where does it say you can't hit below center, because you can. 3.26 just says you can't scoop. Add to that fact jump draw shots are fairly common. I mean if you draw the ball 6' it obviously was hit below center. Reread and understand those rules. I see it misquoted very often.

Masse and jumps are not allowed some places because they don't want the new masse' or jump kings abusing their tables. Well they just don't want it to be a habbit, it is hell on cloth especially if promoted.

Rod

pooltchr
09-12-2003, 12:19 PM
I think the purpose is to help prevent someone from driving the tip of the cue into the cloth and tearing the cloth. That is the reason most rooms post those signs. Too many ball bangers that don't know how to hit the shots properly causing too much damage to the cloth.

Ross
09-12-2003, 02:04 PM
Could BCA rule 3.26 be more poorly worded? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif It totally confuses and confounds two different issues: where you strike the cue ball, and whether or not you miscue. The first issue is irrelevant, the second is the determining factor.

Moreover it doesn't define "center." Does it mean center in relation to a flat table bed or does it mean center when looked at from the angle of the approaching cuestick?

The main flaw though, is that it is incorrect. You can do a legal jump (w/o miscuing) while hitting below center (under either definition).

The way I see it is that there are two ways to jump the ball.

1. One is drive the cb into the slate and it will naturally rebound into the air. When doing this you may hit below the "center" (either definition). This is necessary to do a jump-draw or jump-stop shot.

2. The other method is to hit the cue ball so low that the there is a miscue (that is the cue stick actually slides underneath the cue ball). This shot feels different (it doesn't feel like a solid hit), looks different (the cue ball goes a lot higher than you would expect given the angle of the cuestick), and sounds different (usually you can hear the sound of the ferrule slapping against the cue ball).


With practice you can learn either method 1 or 2. It is illegal to use the second method as a jumping technique (that is, "intentionally"). But, if, in the course of a non-jump shot (say a regular draw shot, for example) you accidentally hit so low that you miscue and the cue ball jumps, then the shot is legal. The only penalty in that case is the sorry looks you get from the railbirds. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rule 3.26 should be stricken.

As Rod points out, Rule 3.27 says everything you need to know and says it clearly:

3.27 JUMP SHOTS
Unless otherwise stated in rules for a specific game it is legal to cause the cue ball to rise off the bed of the table by elevating the cue stick on the shot, and forcing the cue ball to rebound from the bed of the table. Any miscue when executing a jump shot is a foul.

ras314
09-12-2003, 02:12 PM
OK, I reread (carefully) rules 3.26 and 3.27. Thanks for your explaination of them. I have wondered how a "jump draw" shot can be leagal and have had it called a foul when there was no ferrule or shaft contact. I can't see how a "loft" can give much draw action. Different refs I guess.

So it is ok to hit the cb anywhere as long as no miscue and the cb rebounds off the bed? I guess to dig under the tip would have to be in contact with the cb and cloth at the same time?

Becomes hard to tell when a stroke downwards into the cb is a miscue. I suspect the tip often "slides" off the ball without the ferrule contacting the ball. There is so much noise from the cb being forced into the bed that the usual "sqreek" may not be heard.

Still don't see why digging under or lofting a cb is illegal. With a reasonably level cue it would not seem to do as much damage to the cloth. And is a heck of a lot easier on the tip.

Rod
09-12-2003, 04:41 PM
3.26 is pretty worthless as I study this farther. It specifically says in 3.27 that a miscue on a jump is a foul. Well you can't scoop or dig and it not be a miscue. Perhaps they wanted to leave it there for new players to make a point. In the process though they confused a lot of people. 3.26 could be a rule only related to a miscue, ferrule slap and all that stuff.

I think they were running short on time last meeting and "just wanted to get it over with" because there are more mistakes. Well either that or they hired a lawyer to assist them on wording. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Once they do that they confuse the hell out of everyone. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Speaking of which, a lawyer's version,


TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, LEGALLY SPEAKING ----

Whereas, on or about the night prior to Christmas, there did occur
at a certain improved piece of real property (hereinafter "the
House") a general lack of stirring by all creatures therein,
including, but not limited to a mouse.

A variety of foot apparel, e.g., stocking, socks, etc., had been
affixed by and around the chimney in said House in the hope
and/or belief that St. Nick AKA/ St. Nicholas AKA/ Santa Claus
(hereinafter "Claus") would arrive at sometime thereafter.

The minor residents, i.e., the children, of the aforementioned
House were located in their individual beds and were engaged in
nocturnal hallucinations, i.e., dreams, wherein vision of confectionery
treats, including, but not limited to, candies, nuts and/or
sugar plums, did dance, cavort and otherwise appear in said dreams.

Whereupon the party of the first part (sometimes hereinafter
referred to as "I"), being the joint-owner in fee simple of the
House with the parts of the second part (hereinafter "Mamma"), and
said Mamma had retired for a sustained period of sleep. (At such
time, the parties were clad in various forms of headgear, e.g.,
kerchief and cap.)

Suddenly, and without prior notice or warning, there did occur
upon the unimproved real property adjacent and appurtenant to
said House, i.e., the lawn, a certain disruption of unknown nature,
cause and/or circumstance. The party of the first part did
immediately rush to a window in the House to investigate the
cause of such disturbance.

At that time, the party of the first part did observe, with some
degree of wonder and/or disbelief, a miniature sleigh (hereinafter
"the Vehicle") being pulled and/or drawn very rapidly through the
air by approximately eight (8) reindeer. The driver of the Vehicle
appeared to be and in fact was, the previously referenced Claus.

Said Claus was providing specific direction, instruction and
guidance to the approximately eight (8) reindeer and specifically
identified the animal coconspirators by name: Dasher, Dancer,
Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner and Blitzen (hereinafter
"the Deer"). (Upon information and belief, it is further asserted that
an additional coconspirator named "Rudolph"may have been involved.)

The party of the first part witnessed Claus, the Vehicle and the Deer
intentionally and willfully trespass upon the roofs of several
residences located adjacent to and in the vicinity of the House,
and noted that the Vehicle was heavily laden with packages, toys
and other items of unknown origin or nature. Suddenly, without prior
invitation or permission, either express or implied, the Vehicle
arrived at the House, and Claus entered said House via the chimney.

Said Claus was clad in a red fur suit, which was partially covered
with residue from the chimney, and he carried a large sack containing
a portion of the aforementioned packages, toys, and other unknown
items. He was smoking what appeared to be tobacco in a small pipe
in blatant violation of local ordinances and health regulations.

Claus did not speak, but immediately began to fill the stocking of
the minor children, which hung adjacent to the chimney, with toys
and other small gifts. (Said items did not, however, constitute
"gifts" to said minor pursuant to the applicable provisions of the
US Tax Code.)

Upon completion of such task, Claus touched the side of his nose
and flew, rose and/or ascended up the chimney of the House
to the roof where the Vehicle and Deer waited and/or served as
"lookouts." Claus immediately departed for an unknown destination.

However, prior to the departure of the Vehicle, Deer and Claus from
said House, the party of the first part did hear Claus state
and/or exclaim: "Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!"
Or words to that effect. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ken
09-12-2003, 07:36 PM
Gez Rod, what have you been smoking?

3.28 says it's a foul if you hit below center when you intentionally jump the ball. How much clearer can it be?

You been taking lesson from Larry about typing incredibly long responses in order to confuse people?
KenCT

Rod
09-12-2003, 08:39 PM
Ken I edited one post by only changing 3.28 to 3.27.
3.26 is the rule you speak of? That rule says below center, meaning ("digs under or lofts the ball")

Below center is fine if it doesn't dig or loft. 3.27 says it's fine to elevate and jump, but no miscues.

I'm reading and comprehending just fine and always have. Tell the boys on the pro circut their doing it all wrong. No matter, the rule book needs some maintenence.

Rod

bolo
09-12-2003, 09:01 PM
Is this really an issue? I don't remember the last time someone I was playing tried to jump a ball by digging under it. It would have to be decades ago. The chances are zero of it ever happening in a pro event.

Rod
09-12-2003, 10:16 PM
It's not an issue to me or any pro's. It started out by the original poster asking why the c/b must be hit above center. I'll assume it meant but not limited to amature related play. I and others replied, just that simple. Discussion of a poor written rule is all I'm doing.

It was never an issue whether digging under or scooping is legal, it isn't, I hope everyone knows that! Some people seem to question whether it is legal to hit below center on a jump. That's the issue, I've put in my nickel. Care to add something?

bolo
09-12-2003, 10:49 PM
A lot of this stuff comes down to whether what happened can be determined or not and whose responsibility it is. I will tell you what I mean by that. I was at a tournament years ago and Cueball Kelly was refereeing the match. A shot came up where it was going to be a close split hit, so Kelly went over to watch the hit. He told the guy if he hit it in a way it could not be called, he would call it bad. He put the responsibility of the hit on the shooter. In general play I would say a lot of fouls happen that just can't be called, so for all general purposes they did not happen. Even if the rule is you can't hit below the center line, the player may be aiming at the top of the ball and on the last stroke may hit the ball somewhere else whether intentional or not. After the shot how could this be determined? So much happens during a match, over nit picking the rules, beyond their original intent, can really get out of hand, That is the kind of stuff you run into in many bars by non players. I once shot a ball down a rail in a bar and it touched the rail as it went in. The guy said I did not call the rail and it did not count. Half a dozen guys backed him up on the call. Obviously they were goofy, but it illustrates how a rule can be twisted. Some common sense has to prevail in many instances between players. I am a believer in rules, how could you play the without them. What I see in pool all to often, is an attempt to win by twisting the rules intent. We all see it. "You did not call it." You did not touch the pocket" and so on. It really cheapens the game.

Dafatman
09-13-2003, 05:54 PM
I got into a "conversation" with a couple of the resident "experts" several months ago on this site when I posted an "explain this, if you can". The scenario was a length of table draw shot from a cue ball placed about three balls off the end rail and the object ball a diamond out of the far pocket. Execute the shot, hitting the draw like you would any other draw stroke of that magnitude. Now place two balls 2 diamonds in front of the cue ball directly in line with the same shot. You will find that the cue ball will "jump" over the two balls, using the same stroke. However, around here, we treat the shot over the balls as a jump, requiring an above the equator hit. The responses I got were so rude and condescending, as a result I went on a "quest" to find this very answer, but have never posted on the subject again until now.
First I e-mailed Fran to see her take on this, as my position is that you strike above the equator for a legal jump,(due to the ferrule contact and scooping if you don't). I own a 22 table pool room and we have been playing it that way for 10 years.
Her response....."I'll give you my take on it. What I think is going on is that the rule means one thing and we're all doing something else. Everyone I know interprets the rule the same way you do, but I think what the rule REALLY says is that any shot that causes the cue ball to jump that is struck below the center is indeed a foul. So whether you're jacked up hitting below center, or if you are level and scoop it up, it's a foul because in most cases, the ferrule would have touched the cue ball, and supposedly, it's a foul anytime the ferrule touches the cue ball, jump shot or not. We both know that it also has a lot to do with the angle of attack, but unfortunately, a ref wouldn't be able to determine that so they decided to use some universal kind of wording which winds up making it somewhat unfair.

Actually, I don't agree that it should be a foul if the ferrule were to touch the cue ball after the tip hits it on anything but jumping over another ball, because then every miscue and some extreme draw shots would be fouls too.

Here's the rules that I think need to be rewritten:

1.) It's not a foul if the ferrule were to touch the cue ball AFTER the tip strikes the cue ball on any occasion except when the player is intentionally attempting to jump the CB over an obstructing ball.

2.) If a player is attempting to jump the cb over an object ball, then the cue tip must strike the CB at or above the equator line of the CB. "
Next, at the BCA Nationals I approached the head referee at the tournament, and he said to strike it above the equator. Don't get excited yet.....
Then I approached Robin Bell, and she was not exactly sure about her answer so she referred me to Steve Tipton, the pros' tournament director, and he gave pretty much the same explanation that Rod gave, that it is not illegal to strike below center as long as you are not in a scooping action.
What it boils down to is that the rule is worded very inadequately and should be clarified so that there is not so many intrepretations.
Just my two cents

PS. Rod, I beg to differ, you don't have to strike below the equator on a jump to get draw. You can strike above the equator, but the angle of attack is such that you strike below the "axis" and impart back spin on the ball.
I watched "Earl" warming up at the '89 Greensboro Open and he was freezing the cueball to the end rail, shooting a ball two diamonds out of the far corner, and drawing the rock back to the rail. With a frozen cue ball, I don't think he was hitting below the equator.
and impart spin on the ball.

Rod
09-14-2003, 02:30 PM
Well good, you have your answer direct from the horses mouth, per-say. Yes the rules need help, I believe 2005 is when the great minds are scheduled to meet. Maybe someone has an exact time frame.

About the draw, yes you do need to hit below center. It's just that center is not a fixed point. Center changes as the cue angle changes. Center obviously can not be the same point with a near level cue compared to a 45 degree elevated cue. Take a 90 degree cue angle masse' for example, center now becomes the very top center of the c/b. I didn't think I needed a disclaimer for something that simple.

Rod

Ken
09-14-2003, 04:14 PM
Sorry Rod, the center of the ball is a fixed point that does not move at least at our macroscopic level. You may be striking the ball on a line that does not pass through the center and that line would be above, below, left, right or any combination away from the line through the center.

You can define a center hit that way or you could define it as along a line parallel to the table passing through the center, which is the only definition that makes sense for the purpose of jump shots. Even I can make jump shots if I am allowed to hit below that point.
KenCT

ras314
09-14-2003, 07:41 PM
Seems to me the simplest rule change is to make jumps over an obstructing ball illegal. Then I can throw away this rediculous little cue that I can't use very well anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Some of the confusion could be eleminated by drawnings rather than a description what is meant by center, ect.

You are right about the original post applying to but not limited to amature play. And the laywer satire was great! However my intent was to ask why a "dig" or "loft" was made a foul in the first place.

bolo
09-14-2003, 07:53 PM
Quote
"Seems to me the simplest rule change is to make jumps over an obstructing ball illegal. Then I can throw away this rediculous little cue that I can't use very well anyway."

Since that is not going to happen and we are forced to live in the real world, would it not be better if you were asking how to learn to use the jump cue? What problems are specific having?

ras314
09-14-2003, 08:14 PM
To be brutally honest my specific problem is hitting the cb where I intend to. Also finding a table (or table owner) I hate enough to risk banging up in order to get the feel for jumping.

Rod
09-14-2003, 10:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Seems to me the simplest rule change is to make jumps over an obstructing ball illegal. Then I can throw away this rediculous little cue that I can't use very well anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Not a bad idea but it isn't going to fly. It is illegal in snooker.

Some of the confusion could be eleminated by drawnings rather than a description what is meant by center, ect.

Yes, a drawing is a good idea, even with my limited CAD skills I could handle that, I think. LOL

You are right about the original post applying to but not limited to amature play. And the laywer satire was great! However my intent was to ask why a "dig" or "loft" was made a foul in the first place. <hr /></blockquote>

If it's not intentional it may not be a foul. However I think they did so because of it being hard on equipment. Cloth in particular, with a little force it can take a divot out of the cloth.

Rod

bolo
09-15-2003, 12:20 AM
I don't know if your room owner will agree but here is what you do. Get your small a piece of billiard cloth about 5 inches square to put the cue ball on so it won't mark up the table and a piece of indoor-outdoor carpet about 18 inches x 2 feet. The piece of cloth does effect some of the dynamics of the cue ball a little, but since you are really trying to practice technique, it will not be too bad. The carpet is for the ball to land on in case the room owner feels the bouncing ball may damage the cloth, (It probably will to some degree, so the room owner is not out of line not wanting you to practice jumping) The smooth indoor-outdoor carpet also works well in practicing your accuracy since the ball takes somewhat of a natural roll off the carpet. The thing about the jump shot is, once you get the proper technique down it does not take much practice to be able to do it when you need to. To get started, take out the jump cue and throw some balls out on the table and start shooting them in with the cue. This gives to a feel for the short cue very quickly. You will get used to pulling in the bridge hand closer to your body to accommodate the short cue. The basic jump shot is about the same, except you are jacked up. You don't want the cue feel like some foreign object. Believe me, in no time you will amaze yourself with you can do.

ras314
09-15-2003, 12:17 PM
OK reckond I'll have to join the real world (as several have pointed out) and haul around at least 3 cues. Well, I've got the cues but will need a new case. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Will try to come up with some cloth scraps, but the carpet landing idea is new to me. Other than what few pro players I've seen balls are frequently hopping around on the break so the table cloth just has to take it.

Going to have to try shooting with the JC while nobody around. Feels stupid.

Thanks everybody for the discussion.

magicman
09-15-2003, 11:42 PM
If the object ball is deep in the pocket and I need to jump over a full ball or Masse around it, I will jump every time. I set up the shot aiming my strokes ar the top of the ball, then when I get ready to go, I focus my eyes down low and hit the cue ball very low, doing so with a high jacked up cue jumps the object ball and my cue ball draws back out of the pocket. It happens so quick, you cannot see what I did and nobody has ever called it on me, you can't call something you cannot see, that is why they call me the magic man, the hand is quicker than the eye. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Big_Jon
10-08-2003, 08:22 PM
I can't remember who, but somebody asked for a diagram for this whole thing, i understand the rule and the problem is people are using broad generalizations in their wording and that is what is confusing to most people, so here it is, hopefully this will help.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a0199cbc/bc/billiards/__hr_/Jump.jpg?bc7lMh_AaOuYfLfm

Jump Shot Diagram (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a0199cbc/bc/billiards/__hr_/Jump.jpg?bc7lMh_AaOuYfLfm)

Any hit below the centerline that is depicted is what is illegal, the center line doesn't change as the angle increases, it stays where it is, and a hit below that line at the angle depicted would be a miscue with the ferrule hitting the cueball...


Thanks

Jon

P.S. Rod... Dafatman is correct... take a pill... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> </pre><hr>

Rod
10-08-2003, 09:29 PM
Jon, take a pill? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you or the fatman need to mellow out, be my guest go right ahead.

If your trying to make a point of some sort with pictures, then you should provide links that work. I'm not wrong or concerned about the rule. John Lewis said much the same as I so I don't need any help on ruling from the outside.

Rod

Big_Jon
10-09-2003, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Jon, take a pill? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you or the fatman need to mellow out, be my guest go right ahead.

If your trying to make a point of some sort with pictures, then you should provide links that work. I'm not wrong or concerned about the rule. John Lewis said much the same as I so I don't need any help on ruling from the outside.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

The link works, if you want i can email it to you, or you could learn how to use a mouse...

Thanks

Jon

RedHell
10-09-2003, 10:33 AM
It ain't working from here and I know how to use a mouse !

Ken
10-09-2003, 10:53 AM
The link doesn't work here either. Maybe my mouse is wore out.
Ken CT

Fred Agnir
10-09-2003, 10:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> The link doesn't work here either. Maybe my mouse is wore out.
Ken CT <hr /></blockquote>My mouse doesn't have permission. Maybe it's because my mouse doesn't own that site.

Fred &lt;~~~ stoopid mouse

Big_Jon
10-09-2003, 11:23 AM
Jump Shot Diagram 01 (http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=1656)

Ok, if you can't see this link... then maybe you need to check out this one...

You guys might need this... (http://www.hallinternet.com/new_to_the_net/70.shtml)

Fred Agnir
10-09-2003, 12:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> Jump Shot Diagram 01 (http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=1656)

Ok, if you can't see this link... then maybe you need to check out this one...

You guys might need this... (http://www.hallinternet.com/new_to_the_net/70.shtml) <hr /></blockquote>

Does this mean you found out how you screwed up last time?

Fred

Big_Jon
10-09-2003, 02:12 PM
how the f%$# did i screw up the last one???, the url worked for me, and as a test it worked on my sisters computer, and my dad's, and some other people, therefore i didn't screw up the last one, you just need to check out that other link in the previous post...

Thanks

Jon

As in... f$%# off... bitch...

Fred Agnir
10-09-2003, 02:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> how the f%$# did i screw up the last one???, the url worked for me, and as a test it worked on my sisters computer, and my dad's, and some other people, therefore i didn't screw up the last one, you just need to check out that other link in the previous post...

Thanks

Jon

As in... f$%# off... bitch... <hr /></blockquote>I have no idea how you screwed up last time. We're getting a "forbidden access" message. That indicates to me that you have a cookie in your, your sister's, and your dad's computer that allows you access. Probably when you logged in to your site.

We don't have that cookie. Didn't you read that book in your link?

Here's the address you gave us. BTW, it's still up there, so you can see yourself:

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a0199cbc/bc/billiards/__hr_/Jump.jpg?bc7lMh_AaOuYfLfm

Have you ever in you wildest wet dream seen a site that has '?bc7lMh_AaOuYfLfm' as a suffix? If we take off that crap and end the url with the jpg (which is common), we get the forbidden access message.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't think Jon really checked by clicking

Big_Jon
10-09-2003, 02:47 PM
instead on getting in a pissing match, did you at least look at the other link, which leads to a post in the test area of the azbilliards forum, you know the one that lets you attach an actual picture... and people wonder why i don't use this forum, aside from the self-righteous assholes who think they know everything about everything...

Thanks

Jon

Fred Agnir
10-09-2003, 02:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> instead on getting in a pissing match, did you at least look at the other link, which leads to a post in the test area of the azbilliards forum, you know the one that lets you attach an actual picture... <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, I saw it. Cadkey, right? Other people are able to attach pictures here. I suppose others who've done so can wade in on the ins and outs on how to and how not to. My guess is that the url either has forbidden access or is incorrectly typed.


[ QUOTE ]
and people wonder why i don't use this forum, aside from the self-righteous assholes who think they know everything about everything...<hr /></blockquote> I've edited this post because I don't think my response to your statement solves anything.

Life is a two-way street.

Fred

Big_Jon
10-09-2003, 03:13 PM
first off, no it's not cadkey... AutoCad R14, second, the link worked fine... one of those friends was a person in canada... and i don't think i drove 700 miles just to log in on his computer... if you are told to f$%# off... it's not Immature, you are being told to go away, leave the person alone, if you are told to go and f$%# yourself, that would be immature...

Thanks

Jon

Fred Agnir
10-09-2003, 03:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> second, the link worked fine... one of those friends was a person in canada... and i don't think i drove 700 miles just to log in on his computer...<hr /></blockquote>

He came on the CCBoard and clicked your initial link?


[ QUOTE ]
if you are told to f$%# off... it's not Immature, <hr /></blockquote>And I'm supposed to take you seriously now?

Fred

heater451
10-09-2003, 06:12 PM
This is only a possibility. . . .

When I try to access the link, via click or copy-n-paste into the address bar, I get a "page cannot be displayed" error, which is different from a "forbidden" error (which will happen, if trying to 'climb' the directory).

What may have happened, is that Yahoo has a download limit for the picture server, and it's already been maxed out. It might work again later.

Big_Jon, can you provide the process that you use to get to the picture, such as through a search?



========================

Big_Jon
10-10-2003, 09:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> This is only a possibility. . . .

When I try to access the link, via click or copy-n-paste into the address bar, I get a "page cannot be displayed" error, which is different from a "forbidden" error (which will happen, if trying to 'climb' the directory).

What may have happened, is that Yahoo has a download limit for the picture server, and it's already been maxed out. It might work again later.

Big_Jon, can you provide the process that you use to get to the picture, such as through a search?
======================== <hr /></blockquote>

The process???, sure, i opened autocad r14, i created the drawing, pressed alt + prt scr, opened the paint program, pressed ctrl + V, edited the picture and saved it as a .JPEG, then uploaded it onto an AZbilliards post, (the better forum, by far) and there you have it...

Thanks

Jon

JoJo
10-10-2003, 02:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Seems to me the simplest rule change is to make jumps over an obstructing ball illegal. Then I can throw away this rediculous little cue that I can't use very well anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


No Rod don't do that, I just bought a new jump cue and paid $50 for a lesson on how to use it. I like the cue and the shot, it wins me games and prevents giving cue ball in hand all of the time. My teacher showed me I could jump using a jacked up position, hitting the top, middle or very low on the cue ball. It does work. Yes hitting low on the cue ball may be against the rules, but from a High jacked up position nobody can see where you hit the cue ball and it does either stop the cue ball from scratching by stopping at the pocket if the ball sits deep in, or sometimes actually draws out, it is such a cool shot.
Nobody is trying to stop this shot, it's the shot the kids do when they get the cue low and level and scoop or dig under the cue ball, that one is the cloth ripper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif