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heater451
09-16-2003, 04:10 PM
The other night, I was playing a few games with a friend, and I wound up with a duck-5, and the 8 to go.

Screwing around, and since the 8 was easy as well, I decided to "just whack it, and see what happened", and I hit this:

START(%Es1Z7%HF5D0%PE9O9%Uo3[0%VF7P3%Wr9X8%Xp4[1%Yh9L7%Zs2W8)END

WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)

Well, I actually missed the 5, but it was deep enough in the jaws, and I hit it hard enough, that it fell just about the time the cueball left the second rail.

Foul, or not?


===========================

Barbara
09-16-2003, 04:19 PM
You pocketed the ball. What foul was committed?

Unless you bumped the table or someone else interferred with the shot, no foul was committed.

Barbara

Rod
09-16-2003, 04:36 PM
Heater

There is no foul, you just lost your turn. I assume your playing 8 ball and the 5 is your ball. The Jar from the firm hit made the 5 go without contact. In that case the 5 gets spotted as close to the original position as possible. A ball has to be struck to count.

Rod

bolo
09-16-2003, 04:42 PM
I would say it is a foul because you did not hit a ball, (if that is the rule you are playing by), If not you would just lose your turn. Whether a ball fell in somewhere as a result of what ever, has no bearing and it would be replaced. Suppose the ball fell in as you were shooting at another ball in another direction, you would not expect it to count for you would you? If it was the 9 in a 9 ball game as you were shooting at the 4 at the other end of the table would you declare you just won the game?

Rod
09-16-2003, 04:48 PM
That's right, I was thinking he made a ball. Well he actually did but it wasn't hit by the c/b. I've seen this happen lots of times when someone is shooting at another ball and one falls in another pocket that was resting on the edge.

Rod

tateuts
09-16-2003, 05:00 PM
This one's easy. Here are the rules (World Standardized rules):

3.18 FAILURE TO CONTACT OBJECT BALL
It is a foul if on a stroke the cue ball fails to make contact with any legal object ball first. Playing away from a touching ball does not constitute having hit that ball.

And situation covered by rule 3.31:

3.31 BALLS MOVING SPONTANEOUSLY
If a ball shifts, settles, turns or otherwise moves “by itself,” the ball shall remain in the position it assumed and play continues. A hanging ball that falls into a pocket “by itself” after being motionless for 5 seconds or longer shall be replaced as closely as possible to its position prior to falling, and play shall continue. If an object ball drops into a pocket “by itself” as a player shoots at it, so that the cue ball passes over the spot the ball had been on, unable to hit it, the cue ball and object ball are to be replaced to their positions prior to the stroke, and the player may shoot again. Any other object balls disturbed on the stroke are also to be replaced to their original positions before the shooter replays.



So, what you would do is lose your turn from the foul, and respot the 5 ball hanging in the corner. Your opponent would be shooting at the eight from wherever the the cue ball stopped.

Now, if the 5 ball fell in the pocket before the cue ball arrived, both balls would be replaced and play would continue as if the shot never happened.


Chris

TomBrooklyn
09-16-2003, 05:19 PM
Thanks for having the consideration to put the Wei Table link in your post along with the Wei code.

qSHAFT
09-16-2003, 05:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>

So, what you would do is lose your turn from the foul, and respot the 5 ball hanging in the corner. Your opponent would be shooting at the eight from wherever the the cue ball stopped.

Chris
<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Chris,

You got the rules right and the bit about respotting the ball, but I think your conclusion is wrong. If you commited a foul by not hitting one of your object balls, the penalty under world rules is ball in hand for your opponent, not shooting the cue ball from where it ended up.

Cheers!

jjinfla
09-16-2003, 06:12 PM
And how do you know that you didn't just skim the 5 ball causing it to drop.

But of course if it was obvious that you missed the 5 ball (Foul - BIH) and the force of the CB hitting the rails shook the table enough to drop the 5 then I would suggest you buy a better table.

Or did your body bump the table?

Jake

Fred Agnir
09-16-2003, 08:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> The other night, I was playing a few games with a friend, and I wound up with a duck-5, and the 8 to go.

Screwing around, and since the 8 was easy as well, I decided to "just whack it, and see what happened", and I hit this:

START(%Es1Z7%HF5D0%PE9O9%Uo3[0%VF7P3%Wr9X8%Xp4[1%Yh9L7%Zs2W8)END

WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)

Well, I actually missed the 5, but it was deep enough in the jaws, and I hit it hard enough, that it fell just about the time the cueball left the second rail.

Foul, or not?


=========================== <hr /></blockquote>

Foul. Yes.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't see where you actually hit a ball and then contacted a cushion

tateuts
09-16-2003, 08:51 PM
<hr /></blockquote>

If you commited a foul by not hitting one of your object balls, the penalty under world rules is ball in hand for your opponent, not shooting the cue ball from where it ended up.

Cheers! <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, if they're playing "ball in hand" fouls. 8 Ball is played a number of ways here.

Chris

qSHAFT
09-17-2003, 05:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

If you commited a foul by not hitting one of your object balls, the penalty under world rules is ball in hand for your opponent, not shooting the cue ball from where it ended up.

Cheers! <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, if they're playing "ball in hand" fouls. 8 Ball is played a number of ways here.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, believe it or not 8-ball is played by many different rules all around the world, not just America.

But you did start your post with "This one's easy. Here are the rules (World Standardized rules):".

Why would you quote an internationally recognised rule set to only draw a conclusion of what these rules mean from some undefine "local" rule set? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif I just don't get it.

Cheers

heater451
09-17-2003, 05:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> You pocketed the ball. What foul was committed?

Unless you bumped the table or someone else interferred with the shot, no foul was committed.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>Barbara, I KNOW that the ball didn't fall from contact. I would have assumed a foul, except that the ball fell, which makes me start wondering about whether it's considered "legally pocketed".

The rules posted by tateuts seems to be right on the money (thanks, dude), and the example by bolo makes sense as well. --Oh yeah, we were playing TAP rules, in case anyone was curious, which are basically an amalgam (did I use that word right?) of APA and BCA rules.

More thanks, to everyone that answered.



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