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Sid_Vicious
09-17-2003, 07:30 PM
RESTON, Va., Sept. 17 (UPI) -- Billionaire George Soros reportedly is putting together a $10 million warchest to prevent U.S. President George Bush from winning a second term.

Soros, who in 1992 made $1 billion in a single day through currency speculation that drove down the British pound, along with a group of philanthropists and trade unions, is mounting a campaign to unseat Bush for what he sees as the administration's misuse of power, Canada's National Post reported.

"You passed the U.S.A. Patriot Act without proper discussion," Soros said in a recent interview with PBS. "Anyone who opposed it was accused of giving aid and comfort to the terrorists. I think we've gone off the rail in this country. Lawmakers didn't even get a copy of the bill. They couldn't even read it before it was passed."

The Hungarian-born Soros is estimated to be worth $5 billion and has been involved in philanthropic activities -- largely in Eastern Europe -- since 1979.




Copyright 2003 by United Press International.
All rights reserved.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-18-2003, 06:41 AM
Soros is a flake /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ward
09-18-2003, 07:51 AM
Wally

Seems like a good plan to me....

Later

Sid_Vicious
09-18-2003, 02:30 PM
Soros' being a flake does nothing to invalidate the atrocious truths surrounding the facts stated below. Even the major news networks have reported that the administration pressured them to not report their news like usual,,,intimidation was their actual descriptions. Looks to me that the USA will soon become the USSRA at this rate...sid


"You passed the U.S.A. Patriot Act without proper discussion," Soros said in a recent interview with PBS. "Anyone who opposed it was accused of giving aid and comfort to the terrorists. I think we've gone off the rail in this country. Lawmakers didn't even get a copy of the bill. They couldn't even read it before it was passed."

Keith Talent
09-18-2003, 02:57 PM
Sid,

As a humble member of that maligned class, I think the media tends to reflect the mood of the country at large, and our pals at the White House took advantage of a wave of national hysteria and paranoia to lock us all down a little tighter. No noticeable pressure on how to handle the story at my level, but I'd never rule it out that there might have been some from on high.

Truth is, though, unpopular opinions don't sell ads or boost ratings or circulation. There's not much incentive to buck the prevailing attitude that any kind of "get tough" measure must be good. Sad to say, that's almost always the case -- whether the bogeyman is terror or sex or drugs or smoking or guns or boozing -- and that's why we have so damned many laws and such high taxes.

But considering Bush blew everybody out of the water with his monstrous campaign war chest last time, it's intriguing that somebody's willing to stakehorse the opposition. Of course, it's rightfully doomed to failure cause he's a flaky furriner and an outside agitator. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 06:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>

....Lawmakers didn't even get a copy of the bill. They couldn't even read it before it was passed."
<hr /></blockquote>

Then they should not have voted for it, or they should have insisted on a sunset provision.

Your option now is to vote against those that voted for the act if you feel that strongly.

Personally I'm not too worried about it. I'm more worried about this administration's profligate spending. To use a tired phrase, like drunken sailors on shore leave. And Ohio's supposedly Republican governor Bob Taft is no better. He, like Mike Brown of the Bengals, is only where he's at because of his lineage.

Ward
09-19-2003, 06:23 AM
Wally

I noticed that in the administrations $87billion request for Iraq that $1billion was to pay for imported oil...Go figure

Later

Qtec
09-19-2003, 07:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The case for going to war against Iraq was a fraud "made up in Texas" to give Republicans a political boost, Sen. Edward Kennedy (search) said Thursday.





In an interview with The Associated Press, Kennedy also said the Bush administration has failed to account for nearly half of the $4 billion the war is costing each month. He said he believes much of the unaccounted-for money is being used to bribe foreign leaders to send in troops.

He called the Bush administration's current Iraq policy "adrift."

The White House declined to comment Thursday.

The Massachusetts Democrat also expressed doubts about how serious a threat Saddam Hussein posed to the United States in its battle against terrorism. He said administration officials relied on "distortion, misrepresentation, a selection of intelligence" to justify their case for war.

"There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud," Kennedy said.

Kennedy said a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office (search) showed that only about $2.5 billion of the $4 billion being spent monthly on the war can be accounted for by the Bush administration.

"My belief is this money is being shuffled all around to these political leaders in all parts of the world, bribing them to send in troops," he said.

Of the $87 billion in new money requested by President Bush for the war, Kennedy said the administration should be required to report back to the Congress to account for the spending.

<hr /></blockquote>


Thats at least $18 billion that nobody knows where its going to or what it is being used for.


Q.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 07:50 AM
So Teddy stayed sober long enough to make a statement?

He's just playing politics. I hope you realize that. It's all a big game.

I'll give him credit thiugh, he is quite the swimmer.

Sid_Vicious
09-19-2003, 08:39 AM
"Then they should not have voted for it, or they should have insisted on a sunset provision."

GW's "war machine" was chocked full of intimidation to anyone not ready to rush to saying yes to any of the admin's proposals, calling you anti patriotic is you resisted. This war(and possible other facets from everything beginning with the towers until now)was very questionable imo. I smelled governmental power control over it's very own citizens long ago, and this accounting of the monies used in this war is stealing from us as well. Tell me, just why is it that our federal accountants miss these discrepancies when our own government is the culprit, and yet let me slip on one line of my personal taxes!

We have little accountability in the US, and it embarrases me to have to accept that. It seems to me that big money, oil men and politicians are running loose without even the hint of a bridle. Even when somebody states a fact like Kennedy did, a fact that the admin won't respond to, it's Kennedy's character which gets the spotlight. Hell man, doesn't it bother you that they are screwing you out of your tax dollars, AT THEIR OWN WILL???sid

Qtec
09-19-2003, 08:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
NEW YORK The economy is improving for the super rich.





After two years of declines, the total net worth of America's richest people rose 10 percent to $955 billion this year from 2002, according to Forbes magazine's annual ranking of the nation's 400 wealthiest individuals.
<hr /></blockquote>


The rich get richer with GW.


Now we know why R. Grasso is worth $ 180 million .


Q

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 09:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>GW's "war machine" was chocked full of intimidation to anyone not ready to rush to saying yes to any of the admin's proposals, calling you anti patriotic is you resisted.

<font color="blue">I'll say this one more time. I think the dangers of the Patriot Act are way overblown. It doesn't keep me awake at night. Intimidation or not, if a politician thought it was a bad act they should not have voted for it. </font color>

This war(and possible other facets from everything beginning with the towers until now)was very questionable imo. I smelled governmental power control over it's very own citizens long ago, and this accounting of the monies used in this war is stealing from us as well. Tell me, just why is it that our federal accountants miss these discrepancies when our own government is the culprit, and yet let me slip on one line of my personal taxes!

<font color="blue">This is nothing new. The gov't "loses" billions every year. And they waste 10 times that. Everybody knows it but nobody will do anything. The Grace commission recommendations should have been implemented 15 years ago. That would have helped. But anybody who happened to have their gravy train cut off would be on the nightly news crying about the mean nasty Republicans. You know they want to starve children and old people don't you? </font color>

We have little accountability in the US, and it embarrases me to have to accept that. It seems to me that big money, oil men and politicians are running loose without even the hint of a bridle.

<font color="blue">Again, nothing new. </font color>

Even when somebody states a fact like Kennedy did, a fact that the admin won't respond to,

<font color="blue">Kennedy, like all pols, will state the "facts" that will harm his political opponents. </font color>

it's Kennedy's character which gets the spotlight.

<font color="blue">What charachter? I say he has none. </font color>

Hell man, doesn't it bother you that they are screwing you out of your tax dollars, AT THEIR OWN WILL???sid

<font color="blue">Hell yes it bothers me. They've been stealing from me for 30 years now. What do I have to show for it? A damn good military and interstate highways that are great sometimes but too often inadequate. That's about it.

I stil say everybody should have to write a check to the Feds every month for their taxes. Then they would realize how much they're actually paying and there would be serious reform. FDR started paycheck witholding of income taxes, which was evil genius on his part and the beginning of a lot of this mess.
</font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 09:12 AM
Yeah you're right Q. We should just take all the money from the rich people. That would solve everything.

Sid_Vicious
09-19-2003, 09:13 AM
Ya know Q, I'm beginning to appreciate your insights. You and I are in the minority it seems these days, and I absolutely can't understand HOW the middle class friends and fellow Americans can tout our leader as great,,,this is an administration that has one goal, to suck the wealth away from us. It pissed them off that we saw a chance to climb the ladder in the boom years. Everyone should wake up and realize just where the middle class is headed,,,to a lower class or to NEVER see a comfortable retirement.

You GW fans wanna say "Well he did something those Democrats wouldn't have done, take care of a war for our protection." Wake up and smell the coffee, there's a bigger picture here friends...sid

Sid_Vicious
09-19-2003, 09:16 AM
"Yeah you're right Q. We should just take all the money from the rich people. That would solve everything."

I don't think Q suggested taking all of anybody's money away, but siimply TO NOT GIVE THE WEALTHY MORE ON PURPOSE. Please try and stay rational...sid

Ward
09-19-2003, 09:20 AM
Wally

This administration rules by the FUD principal, fear, uncertainty and doubt. The Patriot Act is an abuse of power waiting to happen.

Later

Qtec
09-19-2003, 09:40 AM
With this in mind.


[ QUOTE ]
BUSTED:
Arthur Andersen

SETTLED:
Merrill Lynch Citigroup CSFB
Xerox Piper Jaffray

UNDER INVESTIGATION:
Enron WorldCom Qwest
Tyco ImClone Global Crossing
Dynegy CMS Energy El Paso Corp.
Halliburton Williams Cos.
AOL Time Warner Goldman Sachs
Salomon Smith Barney Citigroup
J.P. Morgan Chase Schering Plough
Bristol-Myers Squibb Kmart
Johnson &amp; Johnson Adelphia
Merrill Lynch Rite Aid
Red indicates companies in bankruptcy

CEOs IN TROUBLE:
Sam Waksal
-- ImClone (former CEO)
Martha Stewart
-- Martha Stewart Omnimedia
John Rigas
-- Adelphia (former CEO)
Dennis Kozlowski
-- Tyco (former CEO)
Bernard Ebbers
-- WorldCom (former CEO)
Philip Anschutz
-- Qwest
Joseph Nacchio
-- Qwest (former CEO)
A. Alfred Taubman
-- Sotheby's (former Chairman)
Stephen Garofalo
-- Metromedia Fiber Networks (Chairman)
Clark McLeod
-- McLeod USA (former CEO)

THE INVESTIGATORS:
Justice Department
SEC
<hr /></blockquote>



And the top investors still make money???????


Something doesnt add up.



I am not saying that these things dont happen every day.On all sides of the political fence, but once you stop complaining and accept these things, you are in a way saying its acceptable.

The real terrorists are GW and Co. They exploited 9/11 and used the consequent wave of Patriotism to manipulate the good people of America for their own purposes.

Who knows what they are.


Doesnt it seem strange that the Anthrax letters only killed a few people but caused a huge panic?

Wonder why they couldnt find the perpetrator?

How many lives is worth a billion dollars ?


Makes you think.


Q

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Intimidation or not, if a politician thought it was a bad act they should not have voted for it.
<hr /></blockquote> I am beginning to believe the "intimidation" is all BS and just a way for the Dems to caste blame on someone other then themselves.

If this intimidation is soooo real, then why were the Dems able to deny Miguel Estrada a seat?

I, like everyone else here, do not like the Patriot Act, however I also feel those Dems up there on Capitol Hill are big boys. They are able to find their little feeble spines when there is an issue at hand in which they like or have a desire to fight for. They all speak up then with no worries about intimidation. The patriot act was no different, what really has happened, is that the Dems did not feel like spending time arguing this because they felt it would turn off enough of this Adminstrations constiuents and hopefully work in the Dems favor. Now that that is not happening, we are hearing of all this intimidation crap. Sorry but that is all it is.

eg8r

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
He's just playing politics. I hope you realize that. It's all a big game.
<hr /></blockquote> Wally, I am afraid Q does not realize anything that matters. In an attempt to show the Bush Administration in a negative light, Q has resorted to quoting one of the biggest bafoons out there. I bet Q thinks that whole accident with Kennedy truly was an "accident" and believes everything else that fool has to say.

eg8r

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Now we know why R. Grasso is worth $ 180 million . <hr /></blockquote> Sure did not take a rocket scientist did it Q? All he had to do was retire.

eg8r &lt;~~~Does not think anyone should get that kind of money when they retire

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I don't think Q suggested taking all of anybody's money away, but siimply TO NOT GIVE THE WEALTHY MORE ON PURPOSE.

<font color="blue">Who is giving the wealthy more money? I don't understand. Seriously. Are you talking about the tax cuts? So letting somebody keep their own money is "giving" them money, as gov't is the "grantor" of benevolence? </font color>


Please try and stay rational...sid

<font color="blue">I'm perfectly rational. You're the one who seems to be very emotional over this stuff /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
09-19-2003, 10:39 AM
What would have been the reaction if the Dems had opposed the Patriot Act?

The same response you allways give when you mistakenly percieve honest critisism as anti-Americanism. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A fact ,even spoken by a fool is still a fact.

Q

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ya know Q, I'm beginning to appreciate your insights. You and I are in the minority it seems these days, and I absolutely can't understand HOW the middle class friends and fellow Americans can tout our leader as great,,,this is an administration that has one goal, to suck the wealth away from us. <font color="red"> Would you please take a second and explain this to me...Last time I checked you received a tax cut. You might think that it was not much and maybe you don't appreciate the extra money in your wallet, but you can darned be sure if you do the math correct you did not have money taken away. </font color>


It pissed them off that we saw a chance to climb the ladder in the boom years. <font color="red"> Once again, maybe offer us a slight explanation. What boom years are you talking about??? I remember the boom of the dot com industry, and even more vividly is the demise of the same boom while Clinton was President. I guess you forgot (or did not know) but we were in a recession when Clinton left office. Bush inherited the country while it was in a recession. Could you also explain, the sudden growth in our economy that is expected to continue at least through the first quarter of next year??? Sure you are not seeing jobs yet, but haven't they always been the last thing to come around after a recession. Come on Sid, you continue to make statements like this but you never give them any sort of base. Give some examples of how Bush is taking money away from you Sid. </font color>

Everyone should wake up and realize just where the middle class is headed,,,to a lower class or to NEVER see a comfortable retirement. <font color="red"> Just another case in point...Why will you never see a comfortable retirement? Let me guess here...Did you fail to set up retirement plans on your own, like a 401k or IRAs. Did you somehow think it was the governments job, or maybe even your employers job to make sure you have a tidy little retirement? Well it is not their job to worry about your retirement. This is called self-responsibility. Why should the government be responsible for making sure people have a decent retirement when most of these people did nothing to help themselves? </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Just an explanation of some of these topics would be great.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Ya know Q, I'm beginning to appreciate your insights. You and I are in the minority it seems these days, and I absolutely can't understand HOW the middle class friends and fellow Americans can tout our leader as great,,,

<font color="blue">Naw, Ronald Reagan was great /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>


this is an administration that has one goal, to suck the wealth away from us.

<font color="blue">Care to elaborate? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Actually they gave you a tax cut. Remember? </font color>

It pissed them off that we saw a chance to climb the ladder in the boom years.

<font color="blue">Why would that piss them off. If people make more money they pay more taxes. That's the goal of gov't, more tax revenue.

You know, that's like saying the white man conspires to keep the black man down. Any rational person wants to see everybody succeed. That way there's more people pulling the wagon and fewer riding in it. </font color>

Everyone should wake up and realize just where the middle class is headed,,,to a lower class or to NEVER see a comfortable retirement.

<font color="blue">I've literally been following politics since I was 10 years old and the above statement has been made every year since then at least. Probably since the 20's actually. </font color>

You GW fans wanna say "Well he did something those Democrats wouldn't have done, take care of a war for our protection."

<font color="blue">Bingo! He took care of something Clinton didn't have the cojones to deal with. </font color>

Wake up and smell the coffee, there's a bigger picture here friends...sid

<font color="blue">I like coffee. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who is giving the wealthy more money? I don't understand. Seriously. Are you talking about the tax cuts? So letting somebody keep their own money is "giving" them money, as gov't is the "grantor" of benevolence?
<hr /></blockquote> What a great point. The government does not give anything, the government does not have the money until they have taken it away. What happened with the tax cuts was the people did not have the government TAKING as much away.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Wally, I am afraid Q does not realize anything that matters. In an attempt to show the Bush Administration in a negative light, Q has resorted to quoting one of the biggest bafoons out there. I bet Q thinks that whole accident with Kennedy truly was an "accident" and believes everything else that fool has to say.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Hey, nice flanking maneuver. I'm glad you showed up. I'm taking shots from all sides. I should not have started this war without reinforcements.

Wally~~got eg8r's back.

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What would have been the reaction if the Dems had opposed the Patriot Act?

The same response you allways give when you mistakenly percieve honest critisism as anti-Americanism <hr /></blockquote> Are you somehow stating that if the Dems believe in something they are being honest but if the Reps believe in something they are somehow dishonest?

Wrong, the Dems are not being labeled as anti-american because of their filibuster of Miguel Estrada are they?

eg8r

eg8r
09-19-2003, 10:56 AM
LOL, no problem. I am taking a break on the whole from Q. He says nothing why he is here, instead he just states a question. I really have no more time for him.

eg8r

Qtec
09-19-2003, 10:58 AM
eg8r, it is an obscene amount of money to GIVE anyone.

Did you see my post over the Comps and the dotcoms that have falsely inflated their profits to keep their share price up. Millions of people have lost their savings and these guys make 10%? And they want to reward Grasso?

They gave him 5 or 8 million for setting the stock exchange up in a week after 9/11.

I havent heard of any huge bonus' for the the people who were working at the site, breathing in [ what we now know ]were toxic fumes . [ which the Govt doesnt want investigated ]

A classic exmple of Govt intragience will be what happens to the 9/11 site. You just watch.


Q

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote> What a great point. The government does not give anything, the government does not have the money until they have taken it away. What happened with the tax cuts was the people did not have the government TAKING as much away.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I still remember Clinton saying "Yeah we could give folks a tax cut but they might not spend it on the right things"

How arrogant LOL. It's mind-numbing sometimes

eg8r
09-19-2003, 11:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
eg8r, it is an obscene amount of money to GIVE anyone.
<hr /></blockquote> I already agreed with this statment.

[ QUOTE ]
A classic exmple of Govt <font color="red"> intragience </font color> will be what happens to the 9/11 site. You just watch.
<hr /></blockquote> What the heck were you trying to say?

eg8r

Qtec
09-19-2003, 11:04 AM
You cant handle the truth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


You know i'm right.

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> .....What the heck were you trying to say?

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

You really don't expect a logical answer do you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ward
09-19-2003, 02:40 PM
Eg8r

Are you saying the War Party has never tried to block a Democrat apointee?

Later

Ward
09-19-2003, 02:53 PM
Eg8r

I can't answer for Sid but I think $500 billion deficit is a start. The $179 bilion for Iraq won't help either.. This administration conquered the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world but it is going to cost Americans $1 billion to import oil into Iraq, it is part of the $20 billion the administration needs for the infrastructure... And you know they will be back for more money next year.

This administration can not give a ballpark estimate on the costs to rebuild Iraq, now Bush is going back to the UN to beg the same people that he insulted...

I wonder how all the crow is going to taste.

Later

eg8r
09-19-2003, 06:02 PM
This is the first time they have filibustered a nominee to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. So yes, that is what I am saying, however thank you for clearifying it. I was speaking specifically about this event.

Democrats have been filibustering Estrada's nomination since March, saying that he has not given sufficient information about his legal views, including his position on abortion. The Bar Association which is primarily a democratic group of lawyers feel Estrada is an excellent lawyer, but the 45 Democrats think they know better. Reason they are filibustering this, is because they know he will not pander to them. Did the Reps ever filibuster one of Clintons nominations to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia?

eg8r

eg8r
09-19-2003, 06:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I can't answer for Sid but I think $500 billion deficit is a start. The $179 bilion for Iraq won't help either. <hr /></blockquote> Wrong!!! That is not money taken from YOU. If it was, could you please tell me how you Ward, would be able to withdraw some of that money and use for your self? If there was no deficit, then given your logic we would be able to just show up and spend, after all they are not taking it from us, right? Sure you could say, well who is going to pay for it? If you were going to have to pay for it, then it would happen one way.....TAXES. Guess what, those were reduced allowing you keep extra money, NOT pay it back in to help reduce the deficit.

eg8r

Qtec
09-19-2003, 08:54 PM
Ok. I give in .Who IS going to pay ?

Huge defecit, increased spending and then tax cuts?

Truth is that after GW , somebody will have to clear up his mess.Borrowed money has to be paid back sometime and its the guy on the street that will feel it most.

Oh yeah, tax cuts. If you earn more than a million dollars per year, you should get an extra 10% with GWs tax bill.

Q

Qtec
09-19-2003, 09:11 PM
What I mean is that after all the rehtoric, the flag waving and the "Never forget" speeches made from the decks of aircraft carriers, Ground Zero will be built apon despite huge opposition.
Buisness interests will come first and a monument to the dead will be secondary consideration.
Money will be the driving factor, not sentiment.

eg8r
09-19-2003, 09:48 PM
I have heard from way back then, that the site will be rebuilt again, including office space and a memorial. Do you honestly think that the entire site should be roped off forever?

eg8r

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 07:39 AM
Ward...You, me, the baby booming middle class, and all of this generation's offspring will taste that bird GW's cooked for us, AND "we soon-to-be" social security dependents (and yes now that the government quit giving a sh!t about anything but the rich we'll actually need SS a lot more) will ALL BE CHEWING TURKEY. There ain't no plans for economic recovery that makes sense to my class of people(middle), and you staunch believers of a republican admin caring about anything else but the rich and big business are, how can I put this gently,,,,dense, ignorant or just plain too stubborn to recognize that you too are being hustled. Any trickle you see in the markets is just that, a trickle. Now we have a big hole in the "budget boat" caused and aided by GW and friends, with a war that REALLY was not needed, all fueled by fears over a collapse of two towers due to gross negligence(or intention, but a topic for another thread) within this, the US government. You ever wonder why nobody lost a job over that negligence? You ever wonder why no federal accounting errors, errors w-a-a-a-y surpassing any others in the private sector, why there was never a revamping of the federal auditors or their leadership? Well, you should wonder, cuz given those failures of even a tenth of the magnitude from any of our private business dealings, somebody's head would roll. Can anybody spell socialism?

Y'all best begin to project forward and see what your children are going to inherit in debt, or where Grandpa and Grandma are going to sleep in your house when their planned retirement is evaporated, unless of course you happen to fit above my middle class status, but even then beware. This country can implode on itself from the middle,,,middle class tax revenue is the bulk of what we take in. Think about that. And to those who say, "Well vote in new people to change it all." My answer is plain and simple, "My vote would not have even counted, not with the electorial college crap." The majority of the country elected a president last time....sid

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 08:04 AM
"You cant handle the truth.

You know i'm right."

DITTO!

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 08:25 AM
"I bet Q thinks that whole accident with Kennedy truly was an "accident" and believes everything else that fool has to say."

Well let's put this into perspective, Kennedy was responsible for one loss of life, and that incident was settled long ago, which doesn't make it right, but a fact. We now today have a war produced in Iraq which ALMOSY DAILY causes American soldiers to die. Tell me, isn't the new thing much more important, and correctable, whereras the other with Kennedy not? This war was on the agenda, and it now causes mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, and children to lose their loved ones. This is uncalled for, it was not immenent as a threat and it is lining many money-men's pockets, the last being the biggent reason IMMHO. Those relatives loosing loved ones today, tomorrow and the next day will eventually become much more wary of why we got into this thing with Iraq, as well they should. This sucks! sid

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 08:32 AM
You said earlier, "Yeah you're right Q. We should just take all the money from the rich people."

You later said, "I'm perfectly rational. You're the one who seems to be very emotional over this stuff "

Rational friend? This is getting funny...sid

cheesemouse
09-20-2003, 09:20 AM
Sid_Vicious,

I was going to comment on this thread but after reading your input I don't feel the need. I'm with you all the way. Trying to reason with Ergo &amp; Wally is an exercise fatality. Ergo's arugments seem to originate from talking points generated by some Military Industrial Complex business who's only interest is milking the government...Oh, I forgot that is were he gets his pay cost plus...no new information please I have my marching orders &amp; Wally...who knows, maybe he finally found that perfect martini...just a hint of Vermouth, stired over glacier ice in a glass tumbler, gently poured into a chilled martini glass whos rim has been ever so lightly coated with the oil from a freshly cut lemon twist... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Qtec
09-20-2003, 11:23 AM
To put it in a nutshell, this is how eg8r thinks. [ IMO ] /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif




Its not guns that kill people , its people that kill people. Put them in prison.


Fine.


One problem.



It doesnt help the people that get shot everyday.


Its called, "treating the symptom, not the cause".

Q

eg8r
09-20-2003, 12:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Kennedy was responsible for one loss of life, and that incident was settled long ago, which doesn't make it right, but a fact. We now today have a war produced in Iraq which ALMOSY DAILY causes American soldiers to die. Tell me, isn't the new thing much more important, and correctable, whereras the other with Kennedy not? <hr /></blockquote> I personally think this loss of life is a bit different. The poor woman in the car did not lose her life fighting for her country or for something she believed in. Kennedy is a killer that got away with it. I see how you are making the comparison, however, the difference is that it is not Bush doing the killing, where it was Kennedy driving the car. On the other hand, you might be able to compare the Saddam Loyalists to Kennedy, they are doing the killing.

eg8r

eg8r
09-20-2003, 12:06 PM
You are right that is how I think. The difference is, sure you are not helping the person that got shot with my way of thinking. How in the heck does more gun laws help the dead person. That is what you are proposing right. It might be time for you to think before you type.

I say put the killer in jail, in order to save the rest of the innocent. Your idea of more laws does not save any more innocent people, because criminals do not abide by your new laws and they are still out running around killing people. Then with your logic, we put in more laws and more laws. Guess what the killing continues because the same killer is still out running around.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-20-2003, 12:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> .....Wally...who knows, maybe he finally found that perfect martini...just a hint of Vermouth, stired over glacier ice in a glass tumbler, gently poured into a chilled martini glass whos rim has been ever so lightly coated with the oil from a freshly cut lemon twist... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hmmm... I'll have to try that /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

OK... a few drops of vermouth into the glass, swirl it around to coat the glass, pour off the excess. Glass goes in the freezer for 30 minutes.

Bombay Sapphire gently, but well, shaken with crushed ice.

Strain into frosted glass.

3 large olives.....yummy /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 12:42 PM
My point is this Ed. If Bush started an unnecessary war for his own unpatriotic based reasons, and continues to allow even one more death for our soldiers to occur, then I gauge him far MORE responsible that Kennedy. Sure Kennedy was drunk, but is George? That, my friend is where you have to draw the line in the Iraqi sand...sid

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 12:49 PM
Now it's beer-30 after hearing all of these drink recipes. You win through the power of persuasion. ever notice that guys seem to settle down with drinking or women topics ;-) sid~~~jus' gotta keep those canals well isolated

cheesemouse
09-20-2003, 01:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I see how you are making the comparison, however, the difference is that it is not Bush doing the killing<hr /></blockquote>

I don't think you do see...every biography I've ever read about past presidents has indicated that the most agonizing decisions they had to make were the placing of American soldiers in harms way...in the pit of my stomach I feel Bush agonized to little and acted to fast for the wrong reasons. The searing scrutiny of the coming election is an exam that I do not think Bush will pass. The doubts are in the air about Bushes abilities to further the dream. His rally the troops, rally the population stump speeches are starting to fall on deaf ears. He will now have to give up the goods and come with the facts. "Trust me, I am a good guy" will not cut it in an election year while our fine troops are be offed in the Middle East. That nagging feeling is not just in my gut it is in the gut of the people, the wise American voting people. If that feeling is still there when we walk into the voting booth Bush is history and all the kings horses and all the kings men...

...I love election years...

eg8r
09-20-2003, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you do see...every biography I've ever read about past presidents has indicated that the most agonizing decisions they had to make were the placing of American soldiers in harms way...in the pit of my stomach I feel Bush agonized to little and acted to fast for the wrong reasons. <font color="red"> You could be right. I just feel that it is great that a President has finally took some action instead of talking about it for 4 years. </font color> The searing scrutiny of the coming election is an exam that I do not think Bush will pass. <font color="red"> Time will tell. </font color> The doubts are in the air about Bushes abilities to further the dream. His rally the troops, rally the population stump speeches are starting to fall on deaf ears. <font color="red"> I agree that his ratings are dropping, however, he is farther ahead in the polls at this point in his career than either his father or Clinton ever were at the same point in their career. He still has support, and I think the Dems need to get their act together. When they lost Congress back in 94 for the first time in decades, everything started heading south. </font color> He will now have to give up the goods and come with the facts. "Trust me, I am a good guy" will not cut it in an election year while our fine troops are be offed in the Middle East. That nagging feeling is not just in my gut it is in the gut of the people, the wise American voting people. <font color="red"> I sometimes wonder about this statement. I would not call those voters in Florida who left hanging chads very wise. Nor would I consider those in Florida that voted twice in the same line for two different people. LOL, I am just giving you a hard time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color> If that feeling is still there when we walk into the voting booth Bush is history and all the kings horses and all the kings men... <font color="red"> Election day is definitely the day to state how you feel about the current administration. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r

eg8r
09-20-2003, 05:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If Bush started an unnecessary war for his own unpatriotic based reasons, <hr /></blockquote> I don't think those Iraqi olympians will think this is all unnecessary, or the rest of the Iraqis out there surfing the net, or watching porn movies in the theaters (this cracks me up, free the people and all they wanna watch at the theaters is porn). The difference is that we have freed these people, and once we remove those loyal to Saddam then we will see if it was unnecessary. I really don't think life was better there before we cleaned house...look at the loyalists blowing up the UN, the UN tried to stop us from coming in, they were allies to Iraq. Look at the loyalists blowing up the oil lines. This is the life blood of the Iraqi people, yet these loyalists do not care about the people. Neither did Saddam or his evil sons. They did not care about the people. Do we care about the people, I am not sure, but we did care enough to free them, and possibly remove a chance of a future attack on America.

After all that, do you think Kennedy cared enough about that woman to even try to free her? Nope he sat on the edge and watched her sink.

eg8r

eg8r
09-20-2003, 05:44 PM
What about some of SPetty's margaritas? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't drink and that one cup about tore me up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~Alcoholic light-weight

Qtec
09-20-2003, 08:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
or watching porn movies in the theaters (this cracks me up, free the people and all they wanna watch at the theaters is porn). <hr /></blockquote>

Where is your evidence for this statement?

I find it difficult to believe that porn is openly shown in theaters in Iraq.

Q

Qtec
09-20-2003, 08:43 PM
Yes. I think most people would agree if the state bought the site and did something appropriate with it.
At least that would be a few billion well spent.

What you are going to get is office space first and a memorial second.

Q

Qtec
09-20-2003, 08:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I can't answer for Sid but I think $500 billion deficit is a start. The $179 bilion for Iraq won't help either. <hr /></blockquote> Wrong!!! That is not money taken from YOU. If it was, could you please tell me how you Ward, would be able to withdraw some of that money and use for your self? If there was no deficit, then given your logic we would be able to just show up and spend, after all they are not taking it from us, right? Sure you could say, well who is going to pay for it? If you were going to have to pay for it, then it would happen one way.....TAXES. Guess what, those were reduced allowing you keep extra money, NOT pay it back in to help reduce the deficit.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>


I ask you again,"Who IS going to pay ?"


Q

eg8r
09-20-2003, 09:16 PM
I read it on some news site late last week. The theater owners were a bit miffed because all the men wanted to see the adult movies.

Here is the link (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/goto/?getPage=http%3A%2F%2Fchannels%2Enetscape%2Ecom%2F ns%2Fnews%2Fstory%2Ejsp%3Fid%3D2003091021350002232 16%26dt%3D20030910213500%26w%3DRTR%26coview%3D&amp;ret urn=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edrudgereportarchives%2Ecom% 2Fdsp%2Fsearch%2Ehtm%3FsearchFor%3Dporn) . It was found on Matt Drudge's site.

eg8r

eg8r
09-20-2003, 09:27 PM
Ask till you are blue in the face.

eg8r

Sid_Vicious
09-20-2003, 09:44 PM
"They did not care about the people. Do we care about the people, I am not sure, but we did care enough to free them"

We skipped "saving" and still skip saving numerous other peoples who have been in deadly perils BEFORE Iraq. Are their lives less important? I already made my parallel to Kennedy's screw-up, it's not a glimpse of similiarity to the lives being lost now. This situation in place was begun, and continues by Bush. For what, for how many american lives? At least Kennedy had only one drunken chance to save his ass, Bush will wake in the morning hopefully asking himself the same question about killing children of Americans, soldiers. He has 365 days a year to answer that, not just one night...sid

Keith Talent
09-21-2003, 03:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
or watching porn movies in the theaters (this cracks me up, free the people and all they wanna watch at the theaters is porn). <hr /></blockquote>


Where is your evidence for this statement?

I find it difficult to believe that porn is openly shown in theaters in Iraq.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

We're WAY better off if they're watching porn rather than chanting verses of the Koran!

On a related note ... anybody see a story recently, perhaps it was in Iraq, but if not there, then somewhere else in the Mideast, about Internet cafes? What happened was that the local authorities cracked down on the cafes because computers were set up so that the users had their backs to the wall -- and there were dividers between the tables. You can guess what it was they were looking at that the authorities and mullahs didn't want them to be looking at.

So now the screens face into the room, the dividers have come down, and business is off at least 50%. They're all gonna get right with God now, and where's that gonna leave us? I think we need to send Larry Flynt and Al Goldstein to the front line before it's too late!

Sid_Vicious
09-21-2003, 08:06 AM
Well when you liberate people, you give them new choices. I think I agree with what Kieth began by saying,

"We're WAY better off if they're watching porn rather than chanting verses of the Koran!"

It might have sounded facetious so some, but there's a lot of pure truth in that statement. Schooling children, young adolescence and adults to hate us(and this really
happens) is better to be offset with choices of most any kind. I don't condone their kids to dive into porn, and yet when they get to puberty they will need visual aids,
as we westerners curiously seek and find. Just as thang, better than chanting hate, and besides...it's darn hard to shoulder an AK-47 when your hands are already
occupied ;-) sid

eg8r
09-21-2003, 04:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
At least Kennedy had only one drunken chance to save his ass, Bush will wake in the morning hopefully asking himself the same question about killing children of Americans, soldiers. He has 365 days a year to answer that, not just one night <hr /></blockquote> I am still confused...Kennedy killed that woman, Bush is not killing anyone. Bush has called upon these men to do their job. The soldiers are being killed by Saddam loyalists.

As far as Kennedy only having to worry just one night about killing that woman, I would hope is way off base. If he was a real man, he would mourn her life everyday for the rest of his life.

eg8r