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View Full Version : APA player 'put up' question.



cycopath
09-18-2003, 03:48 PM
For you guys/gals that's been doing APA for a while I want your opinion.

Play-offs.

Our team

SL6 2-SL5 3-SL4 1-SL3

Theirs

SL6 3-SL4 3-SL3

We put up first.
We win game 1 with SL5 against their SL4.
We lose game 2 with SL5 against their SL6.
We lose game 3 with SL4 against their SL4.
We lose game 4 with SL3 against their SL3.

I'm of the opinion that in game 2 we should have thrown off on the SL6 when they put him up, by putting our SL3 up. Just take the loss, and have their best player out of the match. Our captain disagrees saying our SL5 that played was good enough he should have won. But if we'd played the way I thought then we could have put our SL5 against their SL4 and it would have been an easy out for our guy. Then we'd have 2 wins to their 1 win. Then we put up our SL6 against whoever they put up.

What do you think?

jjinfla
09-18-2003, 04:44 PM
A lot depends on whether you are playing 8 or 9 ball.

I take it you were playing 8-ball.

In that case I agree with you, your captain was completely wrong, he should be taken out and pilloried, or at the very least he owes all of you several rounds of beer.

They only had one good player - the SL6. So your TEAM objective should be to nullify him. Play a 3 against him. Or a 2 if it is 9-ball. The odds are that no matter who the 6 plays he will win so why sacrifice your 5?

Then play your 5 next. The odds are that he should beat whoever they put up, a 4 or 3. Then you would be up 2-1. Now the pressure would really be on whoever they put up. 4's and 3's cave to pressure. LOL

You would give yourself two chances to win the match.

By playing your 5 against their 6 your Captain took your advantage away. Must never have played chess.

Why didn't your SL6 play? Was he waiting for tomorrow?

Maybe it is time that you break away and form your own team.
Especially if your Captain is not willing to discuss how to work the matchups.

Jake

cycopath
09-18-2003, 08:19 PM
Sorry.
Yeah it is 8Ball.
The Capt'n said he wanted to save our SL6 for last. Why? I have no clue. I think we definitely need to discuss these things from now on. I believe I'll mention that to him next session.

Thanks.

Bassn7
09-18-2003, 10:03 PM
As a huge fan of the APA who has played in the playoffs nearly 60 times, here is what you do so you don't second guess yourself or your choices: Get the package as soon as you can and make yourself a 'flow chart' of decisions before the match. What to do "ifs". I don't do much thinking during the match. I've played out all the major combinations before we begin. In 20 years, my teams have only missed the 'Local Team Championships' once. Prepare before the match. That's the key.

Perk
09-19-2003, 06:00 AM
I cannot attest to APA...but in team tourneys we go too, you pretty much know all the strongest players etc. Here are a couple rules we go by:
1.) Never present your strongest player unless your down. Your strongest player is your key to the match. If you play him/her early, they can answer with a weak opponent. If that weaker opponent pulls an upset, then your team is screwed. So we NEVER present our Ace, only use him as the answer.

We have found that this theory works. If we rate our 5 man team from 1 - 5 with 1 being the Ace, and 5 being the worse...this is the order we follow as long as we stay in the lead or tie of the match: 2,5,4,3,1

In our team formats, you can get shut out without your remaining players getting to the table if you are not careful. If you get down in the match, then obviously your 3,1 needs to get to the table earlier to help tie it back up.

I personally think this is why team tourneys/leagues are fun, cause it takes some skill, luck, and strategy to be successful. Just my thoughts, they are not handicapped like APA,,,but it is similiar in a way....IMO

jjinfla
09-19-2003, 06:06 AM
Yep, the flow chart is the way to go.

This should have been a no brainer.

After you guys won the first match and they put up their 6 you guys were in the driver's seat.

You toss a 3 at the 6 and give that game to them.

Then you play your 6. All they have is 4's and 3's against him - he should win.

Then no matter who they put up, a 3 or 4, you play your 5. that gives you your best percentages.

Of course if your 5 and 6 can only win when it doesn't count (we have a 5 like that) then it is time for plan B.
Start your own team.

Jake

Wally_in_Cincy
09-19-2003, 06:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> Our team

SL6 2-SL5 3-SL4 1-SL3

Theirs

SL6 3-SL4 3-SL3
-----------------------
.....I'm of the opinion that in game 2 we should have thrown off on the SL6 when they put him up, by putting our SL3 up. Just take the loss, and have their best player out of the match. ......What do you think?
<hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you. Especially since they had no 5's. If they had 5's it might be a little different but probably not. They threw their trump card too soon. It was an unwise move by the opposing captain.

I think a 6 should be played as a response to the opposition's throw, because too many times the other team will throw off.

ms_cue
09-19-2003, 08:45 AM
This is a dfficult one as there are a lot of factors involved. Fist off, your captain needs to talk to the other players. Playoffs are very different from the normal weekly league. The pressure involved is intense. This is where its imperative for the captain to know all the players and their strengths and weaknesses, and to know how they feel about playing under these conditions. I would reserve the player (no matter what the sl)who is the most consistant and comfortable in high pressure situations for last in the event it goes hill/hill.

Now that being said, I'd probably do match ups like this...

My weakest sl4 or sl3 against their sl6
my strongest sl5 against their sl4
my strongest sl4 against their sl3
Then I have my SL 6 and 4 available for the final match depending on who they put up. Now you're in the drivers seat and other teams sweating b/c all they have for the rubber match is a 3 or 4.

Aboo
09-19-2003, 10:33 AM
Another thing to consider is the "ego's" of the guys on your team. This pressure can sway the captain one way or the other.
Will the 5 be insulted if you throw off on the 6? Some will be, (one on my team is). A lot of players in the APA swear up and down that they are under-rated and but for luck, they would all be 6's or 7's. Just something to remember before you judge your team captain to harshly. Sometimes real-life friendships get in the way of good judgement. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cycopath
09-19-2003, 11:43 AM
I see what you are saying, Aboo.

I think the opinion of the whole team is 'do what it takes for the team to win'. And that's the way it should be. I understand that no one wants to sit out for weeks on end not playing, but you have to put up every week for the benefit of the team and not one individual.

Like Spock said, "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one".

ms_cue
09-19-2003, 12:03 PM
The entire team has to put aside individual egos and do what's best to win. When I played in the APA, my captain made it very clear from the beginning that the normal weekly match ups would be distributed evenly so everyone could get equal # of matches, but come playoffs, his only objective was to win and get the team to Vegas. As a result only the strongest line up ever played during playoffs. Once we got to Vegas, his attitude resumed to the everyone should have equal table time. For all of us on the team, we respected his opinions and followed his lead. For those that didn't get to play in the playoffs, they understood that they contributed to get us to the playoffs and knew they weren't strong pressure players. I would speak to the guys after winning and not one person ever complained about not playing.

HALHOULE
09-19-2003, 01:00 PM
YOU SAID IF MISSING, START AIMING. SPECICALLY AIMING HOW.

jjinfla
09-19-2003, 03:09 PM
Quote ms-cue: Then I have my SL 6 and 4 available for the final match depending on who they put up. Now you're in the drivers seat and other teams sweating b/c all they have for the rubber match is a 3 or 4.
_______
Just so you keep in mind that in the playoffs once your opponent gets two wins every match from then on can be the final match. As in the above example, they only played 4 matches.

Saving your better players for do or die situations might put too much pressure on them. Play them early and put the pressure on your opponent.

Jake

jjinfla
09-19-2003, 03:14 PM
Hal, It is easy for me to say what to do "start aiming", how to do it is another matter altogether.

Sure wish you were here to show me your aiming system.

Jake

Fred Agnir
09-23-2003, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> Sorry.
Yeah it is 8Ball.
The Capt'n said he wanted to save our SL6 for last. <hr /></blockquote>
Ouch. He got his wish.

Fred