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nAz
09-23-2003, 07:44 AM
And with the tax cut thay will get even richer and it will trickle down to me WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE i can't wait to get that extra cash, i can use it to pay for the increase in gasoline and food /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
"Happy days are here again!!"


Rich Get Richer, Says Forbes Report
Christian Science Monitor
Christian Science Monitor
19 September 2003

WASHINGTON, D.C., Sept. 19 (CSM) --The economy is improving for the super rich. After two years of declines, the total net worth of America's richest people rose 10 percent to $955 billion this year from 2002, according to Forbes magazine's annual ranking of the nation's 400 wealthiest individuals.

Microsoft Corp. founder Bill Gates, who remained in the top spot, personified the trend toward increasing wealth. His fortune increased by $3 billion to $46 billion this year. Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen held third place, with his net worth rising $1 billion to $22 billion.

Investor Warren Buffett kept the No. 2 position although his wealth was unchanged at $36 billion.

Forbes said the surge in collective net worth was largely due to gains in Internet stocks and tech fortunes.

The gains are part of a continuing shift in wealth from the East to the tech-centric West. When the list was first published in 1982, there were 81 members from New York and 56 from California. Today, California boasts 95 Forbes 400 members, while New York has 47.

Qtec
09-23-2003, 08:56 AM
GW says he is going to give evryone a tax cut and the average person will get x amount of dollars.
It goes like this.
8 people get 100
1 gets $1000
1 gets $10,000

=10 people get $11,100
$11,100/10 means on average , everybody will get $1,110

Sound familiar.


If you earn more than a $1,000,000 you can expect an extra $100,000.

Q

Pogue
09-24-2003, 09:50 AM
A repost from a message board where people actually know how the tax code works...

>> How tax cuts work
>>
>>
>> So, the next time you hear that they benefit the rich remember this
>> little story:
>>
>> Tax Cuts?
>>
>> I was having lunch with one of my favorite friends last week - a very
>> liberal college
>> professor - and the conversation turned to the government's recent round
>> of tax cuts.
>>
>> "I'm opposed to those tax cuts," the Professor declared, "because they
>> benefit the rich. The rich get much more money back than ordinary
>> taxpayers like you and me
>> and that's not fair."
>>
>> "But the rich pay more in the first place," I argued, "so it stands to
>> reason they'd
>> get more money back."
>>
>> I could tell that my friend was unimpressed by this meager argument.
>>
>> So I said to him, "Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand:"
>>
>>
>> "Suppose that every day 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill
>> for all ten comes to $100."
>>
>> "If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, The first four men paid
>> nothing; The fifth paid $1; The sixth paid $3; The seventh $7; The
>> eighth $12; The ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) paid $59."
>>
>> "The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite
>> happy with the
>> arrangement until the owner threw them a curve."
>>
>> "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce
>> the cost of your daily meal by $20.""
>>
>> Now, dinner for the 10 only costs $80. The first four are unaffected.
>> They still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divide up the $20
>> savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share?
>>
>> The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract
>> that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would
>> end up being paid to eat their meal.
>>
>> The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
>> man's bill by roughly the same percentage, being sure to give each a
>> break, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
>>
>> And so now:
>>
>> Along with the first four, the fifth man paid nothing, The sixth pitched
>> in $2, The seventh paid $5, The eighth paid $9, The ninth paid $12,
>> Leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.
>>
>> Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings, "I only
>> got a dollar out of the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the
>> tenth, "and he got $7!"
>>
>> "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
>> too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"
>>
>> "That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when
>> I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
>>
>> "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men. "We didn't get anything at
>> all. The system exploits the poor."
>>
>> Then, the nine men surrounded the tenth man (the richest one, paying the
>> most)
>> and beat him up.
>>
>> The next night the richest man didn't show up for dinner, so now the
>> nine men sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the
>> bill, they discovered something very important. They were $52 short!
>>
>> And that, boys, girls and college professors, is how America's tax
>> system works.
>> The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
>> reduction.
>> Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not
>> show up at the table any more.

Pogue

Pogue
09-24-2003, 09:59 AM
And how do they quit "showing up", pray tell?

They take their business overseas where they only get taxed 20% on their profits, instead of somewhere closer to 40% like in the U.S. Some people REALLY need to realize that giving tax breaks to the rich and not to the ppor is.. wait for it... wait for it... FAIR.

I am still peeling the duct tape off that I wrapped around my head to keep it from exploding when I heard that earlier this year Democrats were trying to give money to people making below a certain income.. (Read: The ones who don't actually pay taxes..)

Where was the money going to come from?

Quit whining. I am going to pay nearly 9 grand in taxes this year. I really don't care if Bill Gates gets a 1% refund on his taxes. He has contributed something around.. (Guessing..) 100,00 % MORE in his life to the economy than have?

That last sentence really says it all to me.

Pogue

eg8r
09-24-2003, 10:31 AM
Hey Pogue,

Good to see you posting again. You should go back and read all the posts on this board back when the tax cuts came through. It is hilarious that some of the people on this board would rather not receive anything if it gaurantees the rich do not get some.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-24-2003, 10:53 AM
eg8r,

Ah yes, another kindred spirit LOL.

Welcome to the fray Pogue /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Pogue
09-24-2003, 01:23 PM
I was quite surprised to see all this stuff on here actually. Pool players are not known to be especially interested in political issues.

I'm kinda out of pool for the short run, and I started listening to a conservative talk radio host named Glenn Beck. He really opened my eyes. All the "conservative" (NOT "Republican") talking points seem to me to be grounded in the real world and logic, while those of liberals seem to be more prone to emotional manipulation.

Nice to see you guys are still posting on here. If there is political stuff on here, I just may make it a point to drop in more often.

Later, Pogue

Qtec
09-24-2003, 01:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am still peeling the duct tape off that I wrapped around my head to keep it from exploding when I heard that earlier this year Democrats were trying to give money to people making below a certain income.. (Read: The ones who don't actually pay taxes..)
<hr /></blockquote>

Wow. Imagine, wanting to give low wage working people a break.

Everytime you buy a beer or fill up your car , you pay tax. So why you only see this as an income tax question I dont know.
Do you think its right that in this day and age, in a civilized society that anyone should have to work two jobs just to get by?

You hear constantly about illegal aliens, apparently there are millions of them. Wonder why? Is it so easy to smuggle people into the US even the Amish are at it!

Could it be that they are a source of CHEAP labour? Who profits from that? The guy in the street?

Most of the big products, Nike etc are exploiting cheap labour all over the world right now.In New Mexico you have a trade zone where 300,000 Mexicans are working for US companies for $3 an hour, tops.

Whats the max you can earn without paying taxes? If you dont pay income tax you cant be earning much. Just because you are a low earner doesnt mean you are a 2nd class citizen and should be treated as such, or does it?


Its in everybody,s interest to make sure that the poor dont get too poor. Look at Brasil. Youve got gangs of kids [ 8-15 years old ] shooting people in the street for a few dollars.




Q

eg8r
09-24-2003, 02:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Everytime you buy a beer or fill up your car , you pay tax. So why you only see this as an income tax question I dont know.
<hr /></blockquote> I could tell you why you don't know, but you might not like it.

The subject matter is about INCOME taxes, what is so hard to understand. Why are you having a problem with the differences between sales tax and income tax. EVERY individual pays sales tax, NOT everyone pays INCOME tax. So the basis for the thread was not sales tax, but rather INCOME tax. What is so hard to understand.

Lets try this example, and you tell me the difference....Let's say, you are an unlucky, divorced father with 3 kids and no job (not even looking for a job, quite satisfied living off food stamps and government housing). Now, lets say for some reason you walk into an electronics store and see this 60 in HD TV that you would love to have. You also see that they are offering a rebate in the amount of $200 for this TV. You know that you do not have the money to buy the TV, so you will not get the rebate either.

So, you decide that only those evil rich people are the ones that get a free $200 and you somehow feel cheated out of it. So you walk you butt up to the counter and demand a rebate form. You feel you should be entitled to that $200. You feel that you are getting poorer everyday and those rich people are getting a free $200.

Now what do you think the sales manager is going to say? Guess what, you don't get the rebate.

What is the difference with the INCOME taxes. You don't pay the money in, so you don't get the break.

Also, what is to say that the disparity between classes will shrink if we gave more money to the non-tax paying individual? Who says they will save it and start generating wealth because of it. I can bet you, they are going to walk right out and spend it on crap they don't NEED. If you don't believe me, then why is there such a huge market out there for food stamps. People trade their food stamps in for everything BUT food.

eg8r

nAz
09-24-2003, 03:24 PM
i think your analogy is flawed. Its not based on spending it should be based on earnings. If someone earns a little, then they should pay a little in taxes because they don?t have a lot to give. If someone earns a moderate amount they should pay a moderate amount because they can afford it. If someone makes a lot of money, they should pay a lot in taxes because they have a lot of money, and thus paying higher taxes wont effect them. If a person who made a little had to pay higher taxes, they wouldn?t be able to support their family. If the people with a lot of money would be able to support their families and then some. The only people up in arms about this are rich republicans and Democrats, because they stand to lose the most money, but then again they wont lose their house and be unable to feed their children, unlike some other people, so as far as I?m concerned they can shove it. Its not hard to figure out. My main concern is what someone metioned before that this coutry may end up like Brazil, i been there it's not a pretty place anymore. too bad the Demos and the Repubs can't seem to work together and look out for the coommon folk...

W. Clark is looking better and better.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-25-2003, 05:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>

....Let's say, you are an unlucky, divorced father with 3 kids and no job (not even looking for a job, quite satisfied living off food stamps and government housing)

<font color="blue">Drinkin' 40's and havin' sex too /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>


......Also, what is to say that the disparity between classes will shrink if we gave more money to the non-tax paying individual? .......

<font color="blue">And the exact opposite has been proven in the 35 years of the "War on Poverty". All it does is disincentivise folks to go out and get their own.

LBJ was a shrewd politician. He knew his Great Society programs would create a dependent class and those folks would vote Democratic as long as they were on the dole. </font color>



<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
09-25-2003, 06:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LBJ was a shrewd politician. He knew his Great Society programs would create a dependent class and those folks would vote Democratic as long as they were on the dole. <hr /></blockquote>


and you say I am paranoid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nAz
09-25-2003, 06:05 AM
"Drinkin' 40's and havin' sex too "
I remember when it was quarts... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
09-25-2003, 06:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
LBJ was a shrewd politician. He knew his Great Society programs would create a dependent class and those folks would vote Democratic as long as they were on the dole. <hr /></blockquote>


and you say I am paranoid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Study your history.

Sid_Vicious
09-25-2003, 06:39 AM
Excellent projections naz....sid

eg8r
09-25-2003, 06:52 AM
It is not his history. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
09-25-2003, 07:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> It is not his history. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

So that's why he is ignorant I suppose.

Qtec
09-25-2003, 09:28 AM
Its a good job I dont take you guys seriously. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL

Q
I am NOT a bad guy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
09-25-2003, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Its a good job I dont take you guys seriously. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL

Q
I am NOT a bad guy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I know that. You're just ill-informed, paranoid, and wrong-headed.