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Chris in NC
09-23-2003, 09:33 AM
Those of us that made it to the U.S. Open got our October issues of BD a little earlier than the rest. I couldn't help but notice the full page add for the School of Champions. This one day instructional session will be held on Sunday October 26 - one week after the completion of the Atlanta UPA event. During the week after that pool tourney, all of these pro players will be playing in a 72 hole golf tourney for bragging rights which means absolutely nothing to most of us, although I'm sure for some of them it means a great deal. From what I've heard Corey, Earl and Johnny have been spending way too much on the links and not at the table (preparing for this golf tourney), which is why their rankings have dropped.

However the School sounds like a real deal. For $350 you get 4 two-hour workshops (total of 8 hours) held at the same poolroom the tourney will be held in Marietta, plus one hour of challenge matches. The pros include Archer, Strickland, Morris, Deuel, Jones, Varner and Davenport.

The enrollment is limited to 30, so I assume they'll break up in to smaller groups of 7 or 8 (mayble less if the class doesn't fill up) with two pros working with each group for 2 hours, and then rotating to another group the next 2 hours, four sessions total. The only thing that confuses me here is that Archer is scheduled to instruct 2 of the 4 workshops. How can he instruct 2 groups at the same time?

Anyway, I'm going to look in to it and if sounds good, hopefully sign up the Dragon and possibly myself. With any luck, the dates might coincide with a possible World Series game in Atlanta around the same time (wishful thinking as a Braves fan).

Further info can be obtained by calling Laura Smith (she just knocked off Allison Fisher in the recently held U.S. Open so be sure to congratulate her) at Cuestix International - 800-645-9803. Possibly we'll see some of you there!

If you've seen the advertisement yet or have had the opportunity in the past to do a workshop with any of these pros, do you think it would be a worthwhile investment? - Chris in NC

eg8r
09-23-2003, 10:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If you've seen the advertisement yet or have had the opportunity in the past to do a workshop with any of these pros, do you think it would be a worthwhile investment? - Chris in NC <hr /></blockquote> Chris, you might want to see if you can video tape the workshop. I don't think you or Dragon will be able to spend 8 hours learning and retaining everything you hear. If you do decide to go, please post your assessment of the class.

Is this School of Champions related to the past UPA workshops? If so, why the format change?

eg8r

Chris in NC
09-23-2003, 10:26 AM
Eg8r, I've got no knowledge of past UPA workshops and how they differ from this one. This workshop appears to have nothing to do with the UPA, as it's sponsored by Cuestix and the host pool room, with a portion of the proceeds going to the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. If it had anything to do with the UPA, I don't think Earl Stickland (not currently a UPA member) would be involved as one of the instructors.

Since my initial post, I've received more info from Laura. As Laura explained it to me (after finding out more info herself) the workshops will be held just one at a time (led by two pros) with all (potentially) 30 students. This IMO is not nearly as valuable a format as it could be for the students, as the much larger groups will result in much less individual one-on-one instruction.

As it sounds, instead of each of the 7 pros involved in 8 hours of instruction with smaller groups, each pro will only be required to give 2 hours of instruction to the entire group - except for Johnny Archer who will participate in 2 of the 4 workshops. This just seems like a waste of valuable resources to me. If I hear differently, I'll be sure to post. - Chris in NC

RUNaRAK
09-23-2003, 11:46 AM
A 1 instructor to 30 student ratio would not be very conducive to learning IMO. The other way around sounded much better. I'll keep my cash..

Peace

eg8r
09-23-2003, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the update. I thought maybe the UPA was part of this since you had mentioned a UPA tournament completion the week before. My mistake. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I also should have caught on to the Strickland reference.

I do not think I would enjoy being in a class with 30 other people, however, if I could afford it, and it was near, why not. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

kurtfields
09-23-2003, 01:55 PM
Hello, my name is John Minerich and I am managing the school...I work at CueStix with Johnny and Cory. Actually, two instructors per 30 students with side assistants helping and setting up the shots for the students. The school breaks down as four 2 hour session with each session having two different instructors. This allows a better lesson focus and keeps the lessons fresh. With 2 new world class instructors every 2 hours it should be entertaining and not as redundant as other schools. If you have ever attended any of the other schools, they seem to drag on a bit. I understand that the format of 30 attendees per 2 instructors sounds a bit out of balance, but I wanted to keep the instructors fresh so they are better teachers. I felt that for the money in comparison to other schools, this might offer a larger variety of methods to the students. This school was put together because of the Golf tournament and Pro-Am. I would be going anyway as CueStix sponsors Johnny and Cory...for CueStix this is any opportunity to maybe help some devoted players that want to learn and help a good program such as the Boys &amp; Girls Club. I hope some of this helps.

Chris in NC
09-23-2003, 04:34 PM
John, thanks for the added info. I met you a few years ago in Valley Forge. I've known your beautiful wife Megan since 1999, having watched her play in a number of events. I hope she continues to stick with it, as she obviously has loads of natural talent. It's just a matter of time until she's paid her dues and the results will come for her.

As for the workshop, it is a great idea and seems to be reasonably priced considering the credentials of the participating pros. It just seems to me that it would be even more valuable to the students if all of the pros involved were working with the students in smaller groups for two hours, then switching off to a different group of students for the next 2 hours, etc., as opposed to 2 pros working with the entire group for 2 hours then virtually having the rest of the day off. Yes, it would be exhausting for the pros, but no more exhausting than it will be for the students!

There are two types of people that go to these workshops. First is the ones who have the money and just wish to hang out with the top pros, get photos, autographs, etc., and maybe if their lucky get a few tips on how to improve their games while they're there. Then there are the serious students who really want to pick these pros brains, ask plenty of questions and take full advantage of the opportunity to improve their games under the tutelage and advise of these world class players.

John, bottom line is that in my opinion the opportunity for the students to work one-on-one on their games with these pros will be limited under the format you have set up - just a few minutes each. Under a rotating format as I had hoped, each pro would have at least 10 minutes to work with each student one-on-one. Just my advice for what it's worth, and I hope it goes well. I just received my BD in the mail today, so I'm guessing it won't be long before you'll be swamped with calls from prospective students. - Chris in NC

Popcorn
09-23-2003, 05:00 PM
It sounds like it could be a little more of a fantasy camp, but it is not an outrageous amount of money. I have pissed away more picking up a dinner tab with people I didn't even like. Could be a lot of fun if you can afford it.

Barbara
09-23-2003, 07:40 PM
John,

The format sounds exciting but I have a few questions.

With all these top-notch pros, what kind of table time are you giving to each of your students with each pro? What are the topics this school is going to cover? Are workbooks going to be handed out? Is there going to be videotaping of each student and critiquing of the video?

I'm sorry to be sounding like a BCA Master School syllabus, but for that kind of money, I wouldn't want to be sitting in a pool hall wondering what the instructors are talking about if I can't get to the table to try it out.

And say hi to Megan. Or is it "Meegan"?

Barbara~~~Megan's name thing is a really old joke... Do you spell your name with one "e" or two...

Sid_Vicious
09-23-2003, 09:01 PM
My personal opinion is that these buffet style, pumped up promos for schools need to be contained in a simple link. People can look there, but keep the board totally absent of these promotionals. If you do not, then expect the repercussions of anybody selling anything here, to do just that, sneaky or deliberate. That's simply an obvious outcome....sid

randyg
09-23-2003, 09:12 PM
JOHN: Let's not confuse the issue. There is is a great difference between World Class Instructors and World Class Players. Good luck in the project....randyg

HALHOULE
09-23-2003, 10:03 PM
To the individual in charge of the School of Champions. The players will not be getting their full money's worth, if you do not insist that the pros will teach the players the center to edge aiming system that each of those pros use. I know you do not know what I am talking about, but those pros do. Confront them, and tell them to teach it to the players. You are in charge. it is up to you that those players get the full treatment for their money; and the full treatment includes that aiming system.

L.S. Dennis
09-23-2003, 10:23 PM
You mentioned Davenport, I assume you mean Kim Davenport. Is he beginning to play again after his eye injury? If so good luck to him!

bolo
09-23-2003, 11:05 PM
It is interesting you say that. On Johnny's web site
http://www.johnnyarcher.net/ask.html
Someone asks him about your system. It does not sound like he is using it by his reply, or that he has ever heard of you. Below is the Q&amp;A exchange

Subject: Aiming system

Hi Johnny, i am a 9-ball addict writing to you from the UK. I play pretty much every day for 3-4 hrs, and when i'm not at work i tend to play twice a day.
Congratulations on your Mosconi Cup win, i was there to watch the whole thing live. It was a great event and i've got to say you and The Cannon made an awesome team! Don't know if u remember but you signed my pool cue when you and the guys were standing at the back behind the seats watching a game (Thanks for that btw!).
I have a question for you on aiming and how you aim your shots. I have been playing for nearly two years and i always just used the system where by you find the contact point on the object ball or use the ghost ball system. This seems to work ok for me and i tend to just aim shots more on feel when using english etc.
On a pool website that i check regularly a guy called Hal Houle (don't know if you've heard of him) claimed to have a "professional aiming system" that didn't use contact points or aim points. He said professional players use this system or something similar.
It states; when cutting to the left:
Aim the centre of the cueball right half at the object ball right edge.
Aim the centre of the cueball at the object ball right edge
Aim the centre of the cueball left half at the object ball right edge
Aim the centre of the cueball left quarter at the object ball right edge
when cutting to the right, reverse the process so:
Aim the centre of the cueball left half at the object ball left edge.
etc.etc...
These make 15 deg, 30 deg, 45 deg, 60 deg shots etc.
This system states that these are all possible shots, there is nothing in between. So whenever you make a shot, one of the above will be occurring. There is a detailed description of this system at http://www.easypooltutor.com/frame5.htm
http://www.easypooltutor.com/frame5.htm&gt; where it explains the physics behind it "rotating edges and apparent centres"
I actually called this guy in the USA and he explained the system to me and it all seems to make sense in theory. He said to learn the system i should aim the shot how i would normally, then check to see what is lining up with what. He said my aim would be spot on or close, so you adjust accordingly.
Also to use this system you would need to use "backhand english" or "Carabao english" as it is called, where you pivot your aim with your backhand to the desired point and shoot rather than keeping the cue parallel to the straight and shooting through the ball straight. What are your views on this type of english? do you use it?
Sorry for the lengthy message but i would really appreciate your views on this; and can i ask what system, if any, you use to aim your shots. I just thought that best person to ask about this would be a top pro!
Thanks for your time, Jon

Hi Jon, I have one word for that: Complicated. My advice is don't use the system; pool is hard enough, don't complicate it as much as possible. Find out where you want to hit on the object ball and then concentrate on the cueball as much as possible, because you have to get a feel of the English and what English to use and how much. Concentrate more on the cueball, but basically find a point on the object ball that you are comfortable with. Johnny.

Popcorn
09-24-2003, 12:29 AM
Your comment is a little unprofessional, wouldn't you say Mr. G.? Why do I feel you really wish him total failure.

pooltchr
09-24-2003, 06:04 AM
I think Randy was making a point that has been discussed on this board in other threads. The best players are not always the best teachers. I have known some great players that couldn't explain to anyone how they do what they do, or why they do it. A great teacher has the communication skills to impart their knowledge to the student. A great player doen't necessarily have those skills. That is not to say that these players can't teach, only that their playing skills do not automatically make them good teachers.

Wally_in_Cincy
09-24-2003, 06:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr>

.....Then there are the serious students who really want to pick these pros brains, ask plenty of questions and take full advantage of the opportunity to improve their games under the tutelage and advise of these world class players. .....<hr /></blockquote>

Unfortunately in these large group situations you usually have one person who asks a million stupid questions. If the teacher is not a true professional instructor (like Scott Lee or Randy G) he can become distracted by this and fail to deliver his original intended information. JMO

eg8r
09-24-2003, 09:09 AM
Sure does. Thanks for the reply and good luck.

eg8r

kurtfields
09-24-2003, 10:30 AM
I would like to thank everyone for the feedback, I always appreciate input. Some really good points have been made, and the point of not having enough one on one time with pros is a good one. It is one of my biggest concerns; I hope to have a great event as I don't really put events together very often. I don't presume to have all of the answers or believe that this event will solve any serious pool issues. However, if you would like to have serious time devoted to your questions this might be for you. These guys got involved because I promised them a good time and an opportunity to support a good cause. This school was created because I felt that other schools tried to charge too much and perhaps the students didn't get what was implied that they would receive.
As for Kim...he isn't playing yet as he can't. However, he is scheduled to instruct the last session that covers mental approach and strategy. Given what Kim has had to deal with over the past year I think he will have a lot to offer.
If anyone is interested the website is www.schoolofchamps.com (http://www.schoolofchamps.com)

Barb, Meg says hi.

Thanks,

John Minerich

Popcorn
09-24-2003, 11:36 AM
I see Earl is on the list. I have spent time with Earl and have seen him do impromptu teaching in the pool room. You would not know it is the same guy, he is really more a people person then anyone thinks. Clinics and seminars may be in his future. Your only problem with him may be him trying to do too much, he's great, no kidding. I would like to see you at some time do just a session on One Pocket, Maybe two days.

randyg
09-24-2003, 02:02 PM
Hi POPCORN: Sorry if you took that statement the wrong way. I see that "poolteacher" said it much better. Why you would wish anything this positive bad luck is beyond me. We need a lot more Playing Pro's and Teaching Pro's to help out in this country. The game is taking a very positive turn and I'm behind anything that is for the betterment of our sport.

By the way, I'm considering attending their School of Champions....just might learn something....randyg

Chris in NC
09-24-2003, 02:13 PM
John, just curious how Kim Davenport plans to play in the 72 hole golf tourney (as the full page advertisement in BD would lead us to believe), but can't yet play pool? Are you talking about his not yet being ready to play pro tournament pool? Although I know Kim is an accomplished golfer, if his eye injury is still severe enough to prevent him from playing pool, it would seem to me he wouldn't be the best bet to win the golf event, let alone having the guts to even try to play in it. I guess he doesn't mind the possibility of a poor performance on the golf course, but wouldn't consider entering a pro pool tourney (his true profession) unless he felt he was fully ready. - Chris in NC

kurtfields
09-24-2003, 02:49 PM
With regards to Kim...he may not be able to win the golf tournament, but I don't think he shouldn't try. Pool is completely different because, that is his specific trade. If he feels he can't perform to his level and doesn't want to tarnish the image he has of himself then I have to respect that. Besides, eyeing up the object ball is different than aiming in a direction in golf. If you miss by a little bit in pool you could miss the shot badly. If you miss my a little in golf you’re five or ten yards out of position. I leave it up to Kim and only hope he gets back to playing competitive pool.

Thanks,

John

Popcorn
09-24-2003, 03:13 PM
Quote
"Why you would wish anything this positive bad luck is beyond me."

I did not say anything of the kind, I am all for what he is doing. I was referring to what I read between the lines in your post. You took a shot at his instructors, saying in not so many words, they may not be qualified. That was my comment regarding be unprofessional, since you are in that business, even if what you say is true.

Chris in NC
09-24-2003, 03:14 PM
John, thanks for the response regarding Kim. Am I ignorant here, or would you mind informing me who the 8th professional player playing in the golf tourney - Bill Blanda is? The other 7 are all accomplished pool champions and all still great players. The name sounds familiar, but I just can't place him as opposed to these other great players.

John we may still decide last minute to attend the school of champions, but I'd like to wait and see what size the enrollment is. If the class stays small, then we are more likely to make a late decision to go. Obviously a smaller class for the students would be preferable, and may make the difference as to whether it would be worth the price of admission, not to mention the 5 hour trip each way! - Chris in NC

magicman
09-24-2003, 03:52 PM
Hal you are correct, 2 teachers per 30 students is a giant rip off they are hoping the players will not figure this out. This is designed to enhance their profit at your expense. You are buying a giant clinic or 15 person group lesson, that's crazy. You will get no attention in that cattle car situation. You are paying out all of that money just to say you hung out with a couple of big names, that is all you are getting.

You could take that same money and book a quality teacher for the entire day, 8 hrs, and have a private session video taped. That is your best buy, not the cattle car session. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

randyg
09-24-2003, 04:08 PM
POPCORN: Don't read between the lines. Like I said, anything like this is good for the sport....amen....randyg

kurtfields
09-24-2003, 04:22 PM
Chris,
Regarding the School: I think this is probably a school better suited for adult players that have played for some time. I say that because over time a veteran player has developed a whole list of questions about the game that they would love to have the chance to get answers from 7 great players. My advice for a child or a younger player that might not be able to verbalize questions as well would be to hire Allison Fisher for a day. She is a great friend and as for one on one instruction, her game and fundamentals are as good as anyone. If I had a child that was interested in pool, I would save up for a day session with Alli.

Thanks,

John

Chris in NC
09-24-2003, 04:26 PM
Magicman, I would not be so critical of this effort which John at CueStix has taken his time to put together. For those that are serious students of the game, they will undoubtedly get alot of valuable stuff out of the lectures, demonstrations and the little one-on-one instruction they'll be getting. The $350 sounds like a high price, but consider an all-day private lesson with Allison or Jeanette for $1,500!

To have an opportunity to pick the brains and have your game at least a little bit critiqued by so many proven great players at one time is indeed unique - I don't care what you say! No, they may not be proven and qualified instructors who make their living instructing such as Randy G or Jerry Briesath and most of us realize that. However, their proven credentials as players are deserving of at least an opportunity to show us how they can help us amateur players.

The real joke IMO is the golf tourney the pros are having. Yes, I know it means a great deal to these very competitive pool players to find out who is the best golfer - and I'd bet there will be considerable stakes wagered by the players. From what I've heard, too many of them spend more time on the links than on the practice table, which may be partly why some of them (particularly Earl and Corey) seemed to be off of their games at the U.S. Open.

However, bottom line is they have enough problems getting pool spectators to show up for their professional pool events. What possible chance is there that they'll get any support, spectators and/or pro-am participants to pay money to play a round of golf with them or to watch them play. Anyway, I wish them the best of luck in the golf tourney. In all honesty, it will be interesting to see what kind of scores they turn in, but I wouldn't pay a dollar to see it! - Chris in NC

9 Ball Road Pro
09-24-2003, 04:37 PM
Paying $350 for a 8 hr group lesson is stupid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

9 Ball Road Pro
09-24-2003, 04:42 PM
Chris, any one who pays Lee or Allison $1500 for a day lesson is a giant chump and sucker. That is obsurd, excuse me. That is almost as dumb as your cattle car lesson as it was just described. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Chris in NC
09-24-2003, 04:45 PM
John, I know you don't know my son, but in all due respect he can verbalize his questions as well, if not better than most adults. Those that have read his posts here on the chalkboard can attest to that. Also, his knowledge of the game going in to this seminar would likely be moreso than your average student that IMO is likely to attend. He attended Randy G's Cue-Tech pool school with me two years ago, and he assists me in teaching a junior clinic weekly at our poolroom. Allison has worked with him and will continue to work with him in the future.

Still, this workshop offers him an opportunity to learn from some of the other greats whom he has watched and admired in person as a spectator at pro pool tournaments for the past 5+ years. As for his playing ability, I'd say he could easily hold his own against most any of the other students that will be attending.

Possibly most importantly for him (as those that have read his posts will attest) is he needs to work most on his lack of confidence and his mental game. I can think of nothing better for his confidence and self-esteem in himself and in his pool game than to have up close and personal exposure to these 7 great players for an entire day. Seems like the more I think about it, the more likely we will attend. - Chris in NC

bolo
09-24-2003, 04:52 PM
I don't see where Hal said anything like that. Sounds like he would indorse it fully as long as they taught his system.

bolo
09-24-2003, 05:09 PM
A lot of things in this world can be called absurd. People who pay $90,000 for a car or $3,000. a night in a luxury hotel, or the guy that stands in line all night to get tickets to a big game. How about every guy you see at any dog track in the country, lottery ticket buyers, its is a pretty long list. Not everyone has the same values. You are right, some will pay just to meet and spend some time with a pro they admire, nothing wrong with that. $350. is little more then a days pay for many people now a days. They are welcome to spend their money however they wish. I don't see anything deceptive about what they are doing. The fact that you would not pay it means nothing.

plato 17
09-24-2003, 05:43 PM
School of champions, sounds pretty good, sounds good to who, the guy who ran in the sleezy ad for free. Why did he just not buy an ad and advertise the school properly. That does run a red flag up the pole does it not? Makes you wonder what else they will sneak by you.

Imagine you are going back to school, there are two doors to go through, 2 instructors, both teach the same course for the same amount of money. You go in one door and sit in a class of 15 students, and your instructor is not the best teacher, just a celebrity. The 2nd door is the best instructor, that is all he does, and you are the only student, a private tutor.

Now, is there really any debate left on this subject gentlemen? A 8 hour group lesson is worth no more than $100 at best, not $350. Spend your money on private lessons and teachers.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Billy
09-24-2003, 08:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote plato 17:</font><hr> School of champions, sounds pretty good, sounds good to who, the guy who ran in the sleezy ad for free. Why did he just not buy an ad and advertise the school properly. That does run a red flag up the pole does it not? Makes you wonder what else they will sneak by you.

... Now, is there really any debate left on this subject gentlemen? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

maybe I missed something but someone other than the proprietor of the school brought this to the ccb's attention?

wonder if Billiards Digest lets you run full page ads(even if they are sleazy /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif) for free?somehow I don't think so

as for the school,sounds like a bargain if you have the money.you can ask,watch,and listen from other students as well as top flight players(not to mention a half dozen top flight players)

even if there teaching ability is somewhat iffy,they can do what most other so called 'professional teaching instructors' can only dream of ... actually play the game

kudos to John and the best of luck with the event

imo

Billy
09-24-2003, 08:50 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

beerwolf
09-24-2003, 09:58 PM
Larry (9 ball road pro, Plato 17, magicman) why don't you get a life? Your are so sick it is pitiful. Just crawl back under your rock and leave decent people alone. You have no idea what you are talking about.
BW

Chris in NC
09-24-2003, 10:16 PM
Billy, I agree with your post. To set the record straight, I am the one who started the post and I have nothing to do with the school. I'm simply seeking opinions from those here and to find out more information about the school in order to make a decision on atttending. The impressive popularity and power of this chalkboard led me to getting responses to my answers here on the board in just a few hours from John at CueStix - the very person responsible for organizing and planning this school!

I stated some criticisms and concerns I have about the teaching format not being as optimum for the students as it could potentially be, and John answered my questions honestly.

It is truly sad to see a few posters here trashing the efforts of John and these top pros to offer a workshop so potentially valuable as this to the public.

If these posters honestly feel this fee is out of line - to have all these notorious players in one poolroom for one seminar the same day, with a limited enrollment and guaranteed of at least some one-on-one instruction, then they simply have no respect for these top players. This type of attitude is precisely why pro pool players have such a hard time making a decent living.

To my knowledge, this many top pros all working together and contributing to offer their expertise to amateur players in a one day seminar such as this is virtually unprecedented. - Chris in NC

Ralph S.
09-25-2003, 01:19 AM
Hey Bolo, 350 bucks only little more than a days wages for most folks? If that is the case, I am severely underpaid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Ralph S.
09-25-2003, 01:22 AM
Seeing how I have pissed away alot more money on stupid and frivolous things in my life, I could part with 350 bucks for a session with a group of player/instructors of that caliber. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif The only problem is, its just too dam far away from where I live.

Qtec
09-25-2003, 05:24 AM
Bolo, this aiming system is used as a guide for potting in snooker. I know it as Full ball,3/4 ball, half ball, quarter ball and half quarter ball.

Lets say you have a long cut back where the pocket is not in your line of aim. Imagine hitting the Ob half ball and see where it goes. From there you can see if you have to hit it thinner or thicker. In this case, thinner. Wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

START(
%AM2T0%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MN4S5%NI1M3%OJ5M0%Pb1X6%WF4Q2%X`5X3%Y D1X5%ZZ1N0
)END

Qtec

Fred Agnir
09-25-2003, 05:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote
"Why you would wish anything this positive bad luck is beyond me."

I did not say anything of the kind, I am all for what he is doing. I was referring to what I read between the lines in your post. You took a shot at his instructors, saying in not so many words, they may not be qualified. That was my comment regarding be unprofessional, since you are in that business, even if what you say is true. <hr /></blockquote>
I don't need to stand up for Randy, but I'll weigh in. Simply put, John said "2 world class instructors."

I think he meant, "2 world class players."

Fred &lt;~~~ believes many top players can teach.

cheesemouse
09-25-2003, 05:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> Billy, I agree with your post. To set the record straight, I am the one who started the post and I have nothing to do with the school. I'm simply seeking opinions from those here and to find out more information about the school in order to make a decision on atttending. The impressive popularity and power of this chalkboard led me to getting responses to my answers here on the board in just a few hours from John at CueStix - the very person responsible for organizing and planning this school!

I stated some criticisms and concerns I have about the teaching format not being as optimum for the students as it could potentially be, and John answered my questions honestly.

It is truly sad to see a few posters here trashing the efforts of John and these top pros to offer a workshop so potentially valuable as this to the public.

If these posters honestly feel this fee is out of line - to have all these notorious players in one poolroom for one seminar the same day, with a limited enrollment and guaranteed of at least some one-on-one instruction, then they simply have no respect for these top players. This type of attitude is precisely why pro pool players have such a hard time making a decent living.

To my knowledge, this many top pros all working together and contributing to offer their expertise to amateur players in a one day seminar such as this is virtually unprecedented. - Chris in NC <hr /></blockquote>


Chris,

Considering what we pool players pay in every respect to continue playing this game example: the price of cues, case, hotels, gas, entry fees, league dues, table time, tables in our homes, trinkets &amp; knickknacks, lose of work hours, beverages /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif, eating out and in my case kenneling my dog it seems the pool player, in general, is least likely to be willing to pay for lessons, which could be the wisest investment of all each of us could make. Ask yourself this question. How many players do you know that have played at the same level for the entire time you have known them and yet they have all the goodies, what is it that keeps them at their level of incompetence? Geez, could it be they do not see the value of lessons, and have never taken one.

In the case of your young son, who knows what one of these pros may say to him that will inspire or teach him to take it to the next level; it could take less than a few words given over a few seconds. I'm sure your young man has his own dreams and hero's in this game and what more fertile ground could he be put into then mingling with the players at the top of the game? By osmosis alone he will get his money worth. What other sport can you think of where you can intermix with the best for this amount of cash....can you imagine what a one day basketball camp would cost with this equivalant talent

Chris, your son is very impressive in his writings and you are very impressive as a father doing whatever he can to give his boy the best shot. Good luck and best wishes for you kid.

Voodoo Daddy
09-25-2003, 06:26 AM
If all is true...7 top notch players, two 4-hour sessions for $350 really isnt bad if your bankroll is flush. I will say this, latch on to Varner...his knowledge is endless.

Fran Crimi
09-25-2003, 08:20 AM
Quote Chris:

"If you've seen the advertisement yet or have had the opportunity in the past to do a workshop with any of these pros, do you think it would be a worthwhile investment?"

Yes, I do, Chris. Definitely.

I don't know why people knock this opportunity, whether it's because they've been out of school for a long time...I don't know... but if you take a look at all of the best universities in the world, there are lecture halls that are filled with 200 students and one instructor. The lecturer may not be the best lecturer but he or she is there because of what they know and what they have accomplished in their field. But it doesn't end when the student walks out of the class. Then the student has to go and STUDY. Ohmygosh! Perish the thought! STUDY. They have to because there will be a test and they have to pass the test if they want to advance towards their degree.

When people go to these pool schools, there's no test afterwards. There is nothing at stake that makes the student put in the extroadinary amount of time and effort to learn and understand the material once they get home.

What if the students had to come back to take a test afterwards, and if they failed, they would have to pay double the fee? Maybe then they would put in the time to study and try to figure out the stuff they were taught. Sure, there's always the possibility of the teacher not explaining things perfectly. But then, they could ask questions, even after the fact. I bet the instructors wouldn't have a problem answering follow-up questions.

These players are experts at what they do. So, a lecture and demo isn't good enough? Now the students want personalized attention, too? Going to a lecture by a world champion is like going to Yale. If you demanded personal attention or perfect lecture skills from a Nobel Prize winner, you'd get laughed out of the box.

Go there, enjoy the opportunity, and appreciate who is standing before you.

Fran

RedHell
09-25-2003, 09:16 AM
Fran allow me to disagree here.

Comparing a lecture at a University with a pool lesson is a little far fetch. Learning theorical skills versus physical skills is somewhat different.

A better comparaison would be between hiring a private instructor or attending the group school.

The way I look at it, 2 instructors in 2 hours can provide 240 minutes of instruction. If there's 30 students you get 8 minutes of one on one instruction and that is if they only do one on one and don't spend time "lecturing". Now after the day, your 350$ could have bought you 24 minutes of one on one instruction with a professional pool player.

The point is that 350$ could buy you a qualified and recognized professinal instructors for 4 hours (10 times more) of one on one instructions.

So, anyway in my mind the price is a little high. I don't care if the instruction comes from a World pool champion or an recognized instructor. I care if they have the knowledge and the ability to transfer that knowledge.

Fran Crimi
09-25-2003, 09:32 AM
I hear you, and you make good points. I still do feel though, that even if these pro players never took a shot on a pool table and just stood there and talked, it would still be worth it to hear their wisdom on the game.

My point in the university comparison is that you don't always have to be physically shooting pool at every learning session to improve. There are times when just sitting, listening, observing and talking about the game are just as valuable to your learning process. Then you go home and work on it.

What better people to do it with are there than champions who have been there and done it?

Fran

Popcorn
09-25-2003, 09:52 AM
Quote
"Learning theorical skills versus physical skills is somewhat different."

They are two different thing but not independent of each other. Pool skills can't be developed in a day or a week. Pool skills are acquired over a pretty extended period of time. To develop pool skills and become good at the game the theoretical side is a must. You have to know what to do and why you are doing it, not just the physical ability to do it to play the game well. You learn most of what you know from just watching and then taking what you have seen to the table and working it out. Ideally would be a once a week series over say a six month period of time and you would really be learning and improving, but that is not realistically possible except on a limited local basis. There is a lot of ways of looking at the price. My father used to say, " poor people should not complain about the price of steak". There are restaurants that are very expensive, more then you or I may want to pay, yet they have waiting lists, you may need a reservation a month in advance. I would never presume to tell people how to spend their money. As long as everything is up front and nothing deceptive, get what the market will bare.

Qtec
09-25-2003, 10:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I hear you, and you make good points. I still do feel though, that even if these pro players never took a shot on a pool table and just stood there and talked, it would still be worth it to hear their wisdom on the game.
<hr /></blockquote>

Fran, I agree. If you want to improve your stroke you need individual attention.

Thats why I think that better players could benefit from these courses the most.

Its not a course for begginers.


Q

RedHell
09-25-2003, 01:44 PM
Now we agree and I understand your point. Hey ! I payed 300$CAN to go see Jerry Seinfeld for an hour, so of course I wouldn't mind paying 350$US to listen to these pros for 8 hours.

It all depends to where you stand in your game, you can't expect to get out of there with instructions to fix your fundamentals or anything that would require a high instructor-student interaction.

But they could sure help on patern reading or any skills that don't require a close instructor-student interaction.

One would have to choose what he needs the most...

RedHell
09-25-2003, 01:50 PM
I never said independent...

When a medical student needs to learn physiology, he can be lectured about it. But when it comes to make a precise scalpel incision, he must be closely guided....

kurtfields
09-25-2003, 04:45 PM
NEWS: Greetings, I have good and bad news in regards to the School of Champions. Rodney Morris will be unable to attend as he had commitments in Poland that he could not get out of. I wish Rodney the best of luck at the event over there. The good news is that the legendary Buddy Hall has agreed to take his place as an instructor. I hope that this shuffle of the line up doesn't affect any views.

Sincerely,

John Minerich
CueStix International

Chris in NC
09-26-2003, 07:45 AM
John, Buddy Hall is a great addition to the group of players / instructors. I've decided that if this seminar is important enough for my son to pay half his admission fee ($175), then I'll pay the other half and sign him up. By investing some of his owned money, I think he'll be more motivated to make sure he gets something valuable out of the experience. - Chris in NC

Fran Crimi
09-26-2003, 12:02 PM
I'd pay that to see Seinfeld too. He's great. I once paid $150 a ticket to see Phantom of the Opera because I wanted to see Michael Crawford as the phantom, and the tickets were sold out for two years. I figured he wouldn't last that long so I had to make a $300 donation (for 2 tickets) to the Hebrew Home for the Aged to get the tickets. Haha! It was worth every penny.

Fran (sucker)

RedHell
09-26-2003, 12:52 PM
Well I knew Seinfeld wasn't touring much anymore, so I didn't mind paying it. He gave a great show and as a big fan of his sitcome, I had to see him live once. Now that it's done, I wouldn't pay again to see him. I could probably pay 20$ to get in a comedy club and see 4 guys as funny as he is the same night.

But then, I couldn't say I saw them, as nobody would know who they are.

There's some of it too with the pool school, the price is also part of the glamor, you know the: "I took lesson with Strickland, Duel etc."

Chris in NC
09-29-2003, 12:36 PM
After a week of contemplation, reading all the posts here and talking to a number of people whose opinions I respect, I've signed up my son for the one day pool school and can't wait for the experience. I'm probably more excited about it than he is. I didn't want to risk the possibility of missing out if the class fills up. Apparently the room is big enough (16,000 sq.ft. and nearly 30 tables) that I'll be able to occupy myself with a game on the other side of the room while he is at the class. We'll certainly post our honest impressions in a month when it's all over - myself as a distant observer and my son's from a student's perspective. - Chris in NC

Billy
09-29-2003, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> After a week of contemplation, reading all the posts here and talking to a number of people whose opinions I respect, I've signed up my son for the one day pool school and can't wait for the experience. I'm probably more excited about it than he is. I didn't want to risk the possibility of missing out if the class fills up. Apparently the room is big enough (16,000 sq.ft. and nearly 30 tables) that I'll be able to occupy myself with a game on the other side of the room while he is at the class. We'll certainly post our honest impressions in a month when it's all over - myself as a distant observer and my son's from a student's perspective. - Chris in NC <hr /></blockquote>



some here discounted this seminar's worth but I feel confident that the youngster will get more than expected.the experience,standing by itself,will far outweigh the small fee in the years to come

enjoy and have a great time

jmo