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View Full Version : Dealing w/ the intentional foul



heater451
09-24-2003, 07:29 PM
The game: 8-ball

The situation: Your opponent has run down to the 8, and managed to put it deeply in the jaws of a corner pocket. You have four balls left on table, and two 'cover' the 8, so you start shooting safeties. Instead of kicking at the 8, your opponent begins to intentionally hit your object balls.

The question: How do you deal with the intentional foul in this case? How would you get out of this-- START(%An1F7%CF7N4%Eo1D3%FZ0V3%Hr9C4%PY3M3)END ?

WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)


Luckily, my opponent never thought to blast the 1-ball away, before I figured out how to get out.

I will post how I got out tomorrow evening (9/25).



=============================

Leviathan
09-25-2003, 08:32 AM
Thanks for an interesting puzzle, Heater. I don't see a solution I could make work reliably. I guess I'd try to do this:

START(
%An0F5%CF7N4%Eq9M0%FZ0V3%Hr9C4%PY3M3%QX5K2%RL2G4%S p6I2%Td6F9
%U[0Z6%VY8V2%WC9Z7%XF7N5%YE3D2%Zn0F5%]s3[0%^q8M2%_\4Z9%`f3K5
%ak8C4%bl6D4%cl8D9%dm9F5
)END

First shot: 6 in the side, from A.
Second shot: 3 in the corner, from the vicinity of B.
Third shot: EITHER 1 in the corner, from the vicinity of C OR 1 in the side from the vicinity of C, depending on the exact location of the cueball. In either case, the C shot would be used to move the 5 to the area shown. The 5 would then be played in the corner, from the vicinity of D.

Looking forward to seeing how you handled this situation.

--DM

cheesemouse
09-25-2003, 08:45 AM
Heater,
I quess I am confused here......If he makes an intentional foul don't you get BIH and if so why not just runout?

Eric.
09-25-2003, 09:09 AM
I'm assuming you have BIH.

I would start by pocketing the 1 ball in the far corner, with a slight agle to run into the 5 and bank it near the opposite corner

START(
%An1F7%CF7N4%Ep6T7%FZ0V3%Hr9C4%Pb8G8%WF9D3%Xm1F8%Y p5R3%Zo1D0
%[m6Q5%\c4H2%eB3`7
)END

from here, I would shoot the 5 into the corner to get position on the 6 and run out. Worse comes to worse, if I don't have good shape on the 5 after shooting the 1, I can always shoot the 6 in the side as my second shot. The key would be to not miss the 1 in the corner. JMO.


Eric

Fred Agnir
09-25-2003, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> Heater,
I quess I am confused here......If he makes an intentional foul don't you get BIH and if so why not just runout? <hr /></blockquote> Seems right to me.

Fred &lt;~~~ would start with the 5-ball, if it goes

Aboo
09-25-2003, 11:44 AM
If you were in this position, with ball in hand, I would start with the 5 ball and run out. (Or try :P)

If starting from the position shown, I would hit the 3-ball off the end rail with top left and leave the cue ball behind the six. Forcing him to combo to get one of those balls out of the way of the 8. He would then give you ball in hand, and you could get out.

heater451
09-25-2003, 04:47 PM
Okay, I believed the 1 and the 5 to be my problem balls. I didn't want to risk a long table shot on the 5 for two reasons: 1) I didn't want to 'sell out' on the 5 up front, and 2) I didn't think I would have a decent shot on the 1 (not really considering trying to move it, coming off the 5. This is pretty much why I didn't do what Eric said, or "just run out".

And, since I had never been in the situation where someone just kept hitting my object balls intentionally, I was a little distracted by the legality and sportsmanship of it. When my plan just came to me, I went with it.

Here's what happened:

With BIH, I called 'safe', and put the 6 out, leaving it up table. He decided to start limiting my options, so he put my 3 ball out, in the corner (which wasn't exactly part of my plan, but I was gonna 'safe' it out, w/ my next BIH).

Now with BIH again, I simply shot the 1 across to the corner, with a little follow (to about position "A"), and then "back"-banked the 5 to the corner--a shot that seems more difficult than it actually is.

START(%An1F7%Eo1D3%Hr9C4%Pm3D3%Qp5Q4%Ur5Y8%Vn3G7%Y r5X1%Zo8C4)END

He said, "that's good enough", and started grabbing the balls to rack.

Now, as I said, this was the first time anyone had really gone to lengths, with the 'intentional foul' strategy on me. Is there a basic idea of counter-strategy, or is one normally screwed at that point? (I suppose working to a stalemate might be a course of action. . . .)



==========================

Eric.
09-26-2003, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> Okay, I believed the 1 and the 5 to be my problem balls......

Now with BIH again, I simply shot the 1 across to the corner, with a little follow (to about position "A"), and then "back"-banked the 5 to the corner--a shot that seems more difficult than it actually is.

START(%An1F7%Eo1D3%Hr9C4%Pm3D3%Qp5Q4%Ur5Y8%Vn3G7%Y r5X1%Zo8C4)END



========================== <hr /></blockquote>

My thinking is that with the 8 hanging, there are too many ways to lose. You could miss and leave a shot, you could play a poor safe and leave a shot. You could play a decent safe and he may kick it in anyway. With that in mind, I decided to run out. I agree the 1 and 5 are the problem balls. Where we differ is that I'm not interested in risking the rack on a bank shot because at that end of the table, with 2 balls left, with the 8 hanging, I don't think you'll have a second chance if you miss.

So the 1 and 5 are problems. Take BIH, shoot the 1 into the far corner with as little of an angle as possible. Just enough to carom into the 5 and bank it towards the opposite corner. Hit the CB with enough follow speed to have a cut on the 6(?) into the side pocket in case you don't move the 5 where you want it. If all is well, you'll have an angle to cut the 5 into the corner, to play po for the remaining 2 balls. You should be able to make the 8 from anywhere, provided you don't corner-hook yourself.

Of course, this is only my humble opine, I'm always receptive to better ideas... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Eric

pooldaddy9
09-26-2003, 10:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> Okay, I believed the 1 and the 5 to be my problem balls. I didn't want to risk a long table shot on the 5 for two reasons: 1) I didn't want to 'sell out' on the 5 up front, and 2) I didn't think I would have a decent shot on the 1 (not really considering trying to move it, coming off the 5. This is pretty much why I didn't do what Eric said, or "just run out".

And, since I had never been in the situation where someone just kept hitting my object balls intentionally, I was a little distracted by the legality and sportsmanship of it. When my plan just came to me, I went with it.

Here's what happened:

With BIH, I called 'safe', and put the 6 out, leaving it up table. He decided to start limiting my options, so he put my 3 ball out, in the corner (which wasn't exactly part of my plan, but I was gonna 'safe' it out, w/ my next BIH).

Now with BIH again, I simply shot the 1 across to the corner, with a little follow (to about position "A"), and then "back"-banked the 5 to the corner--a shot that seems more difficult than it actually is.

START(%An1F7%Eo1D3%Hr9C4%Pm3D3%Qp5Q4%Ur5Y8%Vn3G7%Y r5X1%Zo8C4)END

He said, "that's good enough", and started grabbing the balls to rack.

Now, as I said, this was the first time anyone had really gone to lengths, with the 'intentional foul' strategy on me. Is there a basic idea of counter-strategy, or is one normally screwed at that point? (I suppose working to a stalemate might be a course of action. . . .)



========================== <hr /></blockquote>


How many BIHs did you get? I thought after three, it was loss of game.

Fred Agnir
09-26-2003, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooldaddy9:</font><hr> How many BIHs did you get? I thought after three, it was loss of game. <hr /></blockquote>Not in BCA 8-ball.

Fred

breaknrun1
09-26-2003, 11:21 AM
If the one ball would go past the 8 in the corner, I would shoot it first. Shoot the one ball toward the tit with some draw and knock out the eight. From there you should be able to get out. If the one wouldn't go in the corner, shoot the five up the rail and play position on the one. If you get out of shape on the one, shoot the 6 to the rail and play safe. With ball in hand, shoot the one ball first to get out. The only way your opponent can really hurt you is if he pushes one of your balls on the eight.

heater451
09-26-2003, 03:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooldaddy9:</font><hr>How many BIHs did you get? I thought after three, it was loss of game. <hr /></blockquote>We were playing TAP rules, and I'm not sure if there is a limit. Anyway, I'm sure that '3-foul' wasn't standard for the tourneys that I was in.



======================

heater451
09-26-2003, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooldaddy9:</font><hr> How many BIHs did you get? I thought after three, it was loss of game. <hr /></blockquote>Not in BCA 8-ball.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>Fred, when I played in a "BCA-rules" league (not sanctioned), I thought that there was a 6 conscecutive foul limit, between the two players. Then the game was restarted. Have you ever heard of that?



==========================

heater451
09-26-2003, 03:49 PM
Breaking the 5 with a shot on the 1 is probably the sanest (as in sanity--not a "safest" typo) idea.

As I tend to try and figure a way to leave my blocking balls until I have figured a way out, I went that way. ---Not that I always do, since sometimes you have to get them out first. . .it just 'locked' when I saw what I wound up doing.



=========================

Fred Agnir
09-26-2003, 04:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> Fred, when I played in a "BCA-rules" league (not sanctioned), I thought that there was a 6 conscecutive foul limit, between the two players. Then the game was restarted. Have you ever heard of that?



========================== <hr /></blockquote> Yup. It's the stalemate rule for 8-ball. Both players have to agree to it when it's happening. Both players have to foul 3 consecutive times for a total of 6 consecutive.

Fred