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Kato
04-11-2002, 08:50 AM
I've been reading the various posts on tips forever and a day. Many moons ago I played with a Moori but due to expense I started looking for a more economical tip (plus my tip guy would sometimes not have Moori's) that would have good performance. I've been playing with Triangle for at least 4 years now (Pool room owners suggestion). I've switched cues (Meucci to Helmstetter to Predator), stances, strokes and hair styles. I'm probably going to buy a new Predator shaft in the next few weeks and want to try something new. I won't buy a new tip for my play cue just to find out I don't like it. I guess you could say I'm going to do alot of experimenting and would like some imput.

What do each of you use and the most important question is WHY????????

Kato~~~actually asking a pool question.

Kato
04-11-2002, 08:52 AM
I know LePro's though, bad suggestion for me. Feels like I'm hitting with a wet sponge.

Kato

04-11-2002, 08:58 AM
See my reply from this morning to the "Cue Tips" thread for reasons why....Talisman works great for me!

Kato
04-11-2002, 09:03 AM
I read that post and was (and am) fascinated by it. Hence expanding it to include everyone. I am leaning heavily towards Tailsman but would like to see many existing points of view and arguements. After which I'd like to think I can make a good if not great decision. Reason being the respect I have for those on the board and their knowledge.

Kato

stickman
04-11-2002, 09:44 AM
To those that replied to the post, Thank You. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I still haven't changed tips. I was honestly hoping for more feedback. Not that I don't value the advice that was given, I was just wanting a wider concensus.

Troy
04-11-2002, 09:54 AM
Kato... I shot with Le Pro and Triangle tips for years until I tried Talisman Pros. For my game, I settled on a Pro Soft because it gives me the touch, feel and control I like playing 1-Pocket. It does NOT mushroom.

I have Talisman Pro S, M and H on three shafts to give customers the opporunity to try them out. The majority choose the Pro Medium. Any of the three provide good ball control and they do NOT mushroom.

For a pure break cue, I still choose either a Triangle or a non-layered Water Buffalo Medium and I'm leaning more toward the Water Buffalo the more I use it.

Troy

Fred Agnir
04-11-2002, 10:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Kato:</font><hr>

What do each of you use and the most important question is WHY????????<hr></blockquote>
I started using a Triangle tip about 8 years ago, and loved them from day one. They are more consistent out of the box than the standard of the industry at the time (LePro). With the recent onslaught of layered tips, I've been trying out others, especially Talisman tips. But, up until a few months ago, Triangle has been my shooting tip.

It was suggested to put a fiber pad under my Triangle tip by a couple of people (Showcase Billiards and Mike Webb), to mute the hit. I don't have ivory ferrules. The muting is to my liking, and so the fiber pad remains. Unfortunately, after a little over a year, the Triangle tip came loose (Note: I didn't put this one on; it was professionally done). So, in an emergency, I put a non-Triangle tip on. The brand? Moori. I happen to have one laying around. IMO, the Moori is just another tip, no more no less. I suppose since I didn't pay a crazy price for it, that the added aura isn't present. So, currently, I'm using a Moori for no particular reason. If I had a Talisman Pro M laying around, I would have put that one on instead.

Incidentally, most of my other cues have Talisman Pros or WBs, two tips that I really like. Especially the Talisman Pro M. It's the closest to the Triangle for me.

Fred

stickman
04-11-2002, 11:36 AM
Just curious, Fred. Do you use a pad under the Talismans? I'm curious because I too prefer a little softer hit. Not that it probably makes a difference, it's just what one gets used to, at least that's my guess.

JimS
04-11-2002, 11:47 AM
I really like the hit and feel and control I get with Talisman Pro hard. The feel is to my liking, it holds chalk just fine, does not mushroom, very seldom needs picking (once in 4 months on this tip and that's with daily use of 2 to 4 hours).

The thought that occurred to me is: Hell Bud! Don't big-deal it! Put the freaking tip on and if you don't like it take it off!"

Don't mean to be rude....that's just the thought that ran through my head, and probably should have stayed in there, but it does make sense to me. Just do it.

Kato
04-11-2002, 11:53 AM
I'll probably experiment with a few tips but since I don't do them myself (maybe I'll learn or something) it could get a little more expensive.

Kato~~~understands Jim and wishes I could do it like that without having some kind of attack.

stickman
04-11-2002, 12:11 PM
I need to learn to do my own also. The install of the Talisman sounds a little tricky, plus I don't have the proper equipment. To get my tip done professionally means an hours drive, and probably leave my stick and come back for it a few days later. I'll probably have the Talisman Pro M put on and hope for the best. It sounds like most that have switched like them.

Fred Agnir
04-11-2002, 12:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> Just curious, Fred. Do you use a pad under the Talismans? I'm curious because I too prefer a little softer hit. Not that it probably makes a difference, it's just what one gets used to, at least that's my guess. <hr></blockquote>

I only use the pad under my shooting stick. So, when I switched to the Moori, the pad stayed. Had I gone with a Talisman, the pad would've stayed.

In the back of my mind, one of my cues has a pad under a Talisman. Same thing, the sound gets muted.

Fred &lt;~~~ likes the muted hit

Rod
04-11-2002, 03:11 PM
Troy, can we qualify that, "they do not mushroom" if #1 you never break with it, and #2 you don't shoot shot's hard, or use extreme english? Now if you don't do any of the above, and just bunt balls around, I guess it is possible.

I will admit to breaking with my play cue. I have practiced with a new tip, without breaking, and they still mushroom.
The fact is they all compress, except for real hard tips, and even they do a tiny bit. Those plain brown med to med firm w/b was my favorite. No one out here has any. The only ones I find are the real hard ones, and very very dark brown. I play with a Talisman w/b on one shaft that I compressed before it was installed. The Talisman pro med mushroomed a lot, but I am able to trim it at the house.
Just after it got broke in, it went flying several feet on a break. Thats not the tips fault. I wasn't interested in the tip or where it went, I just switched shafts. It looked like there was a small void or surface contact.
I have several pro med tips Troy, 2 for 1 trade? Don't get me wrong, I liked the feel, but they did not hold chalk real good. The dome of the tip shows glue lines between the layers and thats where chalk is very light.

My answer to the original question. #1 I have to like the feel, #2 the tip holds chalk well, #3 it holds it's shape.
If your present tip meets or exceeds the above, then I can not think of any reason to change brands of tips.

SpiderMan
04-11-2002, 03:22 PM
Rod,

What kind of tips are you wanting to trade for? Email me,
you know I have quite a collection.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Troy, can we qualify that, "they do not mushroom" if #1 you never break with it, and #2 you don't shoot shot's hard, or use extreme english? Now if you don't do any of the above, and just bunt balls around, I guess it is possible.

I will admit to breaking with my play cue. I have practiced with a new tip, without breaking, and they still mushroom.
The fact is they all compress, except for real hard tips, and even they do a tiny bit. Those plain brown med to med firm w/b was my favorite. No one out here has any. The only ones I find are the real hard ones, and very very dark brown. I play with a Talisman w/b on one shaft that I compressed before it was installed. The Talisman pro med mushroomed a lot, but I am able to trim it at the house.
Just after it got broke in, it went flying several feet on a break. Thats not the tips fault. I wasn't interested in the tip or where it went, I just switched shafts. It looked like there was a small void or surface contact.
I have several pro med tips Troy, 2 for 1 trade? Don't get me wrong, I liked the feel, but they did not hold chalk real good. The dome of the tip shows glue lines between the layers and thats where chalk is very light.

My answer to the original question. #1 I have to like the feel, #2 the tip holds chalk well, #3 it holds it's shape.
If your present tip meets or exceeds the above, then I can not think of any reason to change brands of tips. <hr></blockquote>

Rod
04-11-2002, 03:26 PM
Kato thats beause of the inconsistency of manufacturing. That is a big problem. The tips are ok, but you never know what your getting. They range from very soft to med hard. I have run across hard ones. IMO Triangle might be the most consistant tip, from box to box, and I don't play with them.

Rod
04-11-2002, 03:46 PM
Fred, I've used pads under my tips for years. I never noticed any mute of the hit, but who knows. I use them for that little added protection, but really because I don't want the tip cut off back into the ferrule, just to the pad.
I don't use ivory either.

SpiderMan
04-11-2002, 04:34 PM
I'm impressed with the Triangles. For a fifty-cent tip (at least when you buy a box of 50 for $25), they seem to play better than the LePros. Of course, "better" is pretty subjective, so let me quantify just a little by saying that the two tips feel about equal in hardness, but the Triangle has coarser fibers that seem to take and hold chalk better. Also, and I'm not sure how to say this, the Triangle doesn't seem as "dry" as the LePro. But you do have to be a little more careful with the trimming and shaping, particularly if you are using a lathe. The Triangle doesn't machine quite as easily as the LePro, it has a slight tendency to fray out if you don't take it slow.

I've used a lot of the Talismans. Regarding the Pro series, I'd tend to agree with the consensus that they wear well and hold their shape, at least the Medium, Hard, and Extra-Hard. They will hold a penny contour for a week or more of daily play without needing to be touched up. Maintaining a dime contour on my medium required a weekly touchup when played daily.

The downside of the Talisman Pro Medium, Hard, and Extra-Hard tips was that they all felt hard. There was actually little difference in "feel" between them, at least not after a few weeks' break-in. Don't expect a lot of difference switching from one to the other. The Medium started out feeling different, but after a week or two it had compressed to the point that it felt like the Hard. I contrast that to a Moori Medium, which for me somehow magically kept it's softer feel for months.

Still searching for that $6 Moori Medium substitute, I recently switched to a Talisman Pro Soft. It seemed to have about the same feel as a Moori Medium, but it just wasn't capable of holding a dime contour. Over about two months' time, it's crown flattened often enough that the required reshaping had taken it's thickness down considerably. Since I'm facing two major tournaments in about four weeks, I decided to replace it now rather than the day before I leave. So let me summarize, in my opinion the Talisman Pro Soft will start out feeling much like a Moori Medium, but it will compress noticeably and feel harder after break-in. A nickel contour may be maintainable, but if you want a dime you'll get noticeably shorter life.

I've just (yesterday) replaced the Pro Soft with a Talisman WB Medium. The leather characteristics (grain, fibers, etc) look good to me, sort of like a Triangle. It didn't machine as well as the Pro series, tending to fuzz up a little when crowning, but nothing to really worry about. I'll be playing with it for the first time later today. If I can guess accurately just from looking at it, I think it might play like a Triangle. If it holds it's crown well, it could be a good compromise.

I'll try to put some closeup pictures of the tips I'm talking about online and provide a link, for those who have not seen them all in person.

SpiderMan

Tom_In_Cincy
04-11-2002, 04:40 PM
Stickman and Kato

A tip is one of the cheapest things to change in your game, from a device viewpoint.

I, too , am a LePro and Triangle user, and at one time thought the French Champion tips were the best until I couldn't get them anymore.

When I first tried the Talisman, I was mis-cueing because of the hardness and my stroke. Once I compensated for the large amount of mis-cues, by making my stroke more consistant and staying closer to center for any type of non-center hit, my game really improved. If this would have happened with the Triangle or LePro.. is still an unanswered question. I am convinced that the Talisman helped me get my stroke more consistant, because of the mis-cues. Been playing with Talisman tips now for two plus years and love em...

Rod
04-11-2002, 04:57 PM
Spiderman, that w/b med has coarse fiber, that I like, for the same reason as you. It will compress and needs to be trimmed. I compressed mine .050" before it was installed.
It does hold chalk pretty good and the hit is good. Out of the box, there going to feel real soft. I am speaking of the Talisman wb.

Rod
04-11-2002, 05:48 PM
Tom I had miscue problems also. Granted the delivery is suspect at times. I don't play as much as I once did either.
It makes one a little gun shy when that happens. I started checking the tip afterwards and found the miscue to be no where near the edge of the tip. It was about 1/2 distance to the edge. I found the feathered glue line did not hold chalk very well. I make it a point to chalk well and it improved. It was a rare day that ever happened before that tip. The Talisman wb does not give me a problem.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-11-2002, 05:55 PM
My Talisman tips don't even show the layer diferences on the tip surface. I never had mis-cue problems before using the Talisman.. and I don't now.. after improving my stroke..

Rod
04-11-2002, 06:12 PM
Really, you don't see a line/s? They were very apparent on my tip. The WB looks good though. Scratching my head now. If I didn't put on glasses I would not of seen them either.
Well the stroke isn't what it once was, but it's as good once as it ever was! I'll work on that.

Voodoo Daddy
04-11-2002, 06:37 PM
Everyone has their opinion...here's mine. When Triangle quits making tips, I will quit pool and take up lawn darts. When you pay $30-$60 Ballons for a tip...dont you think things are getting a lil outta round in life? To each his own...

Voodoo...Triangle man since 1980

cheesemouse
04-11-2002, 06:55 PM
Voodoo Daddy,
Man, am I ever glad you just said that ,cause, I was starting to feel bad about not knowing what tip I prefer. I bet I have six shafts I play with and I have no idea what is on them. When I give the shafts to a tip putter on'er and he asks what I want on it I say "a cheap one". Tips are not my problem, focus is my problem. I can play w/o a tip if I'm focused. Nothing against tip freaks I just never cared what I played with; maybe I have no feel or something. Just my five cents worth.... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Rod
04-11-2002, 07:11 PM
Hum, lawn darts eh! Whats the object, to spear you opponent till he can't throw a dart? Sort of like horse shoes except your the stake? I might like that game, cause I ain't real big.

Barbara
04-11-2002, 07:46 PM
And where have you been???! I was calling you to duty to defend my name. Someone called me "Barbs" and we all know what that affect has on me.

Oh, no? You don't know? Well let me clue you in....

People constantly shorten my name for me, and IT IRRITATES ME TO NO END!!!!

For the record, my name is Barbara. I am not "Barb". I am not a short, sharp object which will inflict a cut, nor am I a stinging remark. My name is Barbara.

Barbara~~~only corrects this situation with the people I care about.... see??? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Don't ask about "Babs". She's my evil twin and will be at Vegas.

04-11-2002, 08:05 PM
I recently switched from Moori to Triangle. I've been a Moori user for years but Ray Schuler recently sent me a shaft that had a triangle tip on it, and to my surprise I love the tip. I'd say it's a medium-hard, lasts forever and holds its consistency for (IMO) a much longer time than a Moori Medium does.

However, as a warning to potential Triangle users, you have to look through the tips to find the hardness you like. They're kind of like Le Pros, all just a little different. A few years ago, someone put a hard Triangle on my cue and I was miscueing an awful lot. I don't believe that all misuces are caused by a fault in the shooter as some players feel. It depends on how you apply side spin. If you turn the cue out when you spin the ball, you may miscue with a hard tip. That doesn't necessarily mean you are doing it wrong. It means the tip isn't right for you.

Fran

Troy
04-11-2002, 10:17 PM
Well Rod, I didn't mean to imply that each hardness of Talisman Pro was suitable for all games or for all people. Actually, I think I said the opposite.

I prefer the Talisman Pro Soft for 1-Pocket and the tip on that shaft stays at a dime radius, holds chalk well and does not show the "glue lines" you mention. Perhaps it's in the way I finish the shaping and/or because I don't mess with the tip much. Also, I paint on chalk before every shot.

When I play 9-Ball I use a Talisman Pro Medium on my play cue and a non-layered Water Buffalo Medium on my break cue.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Troy, can we qualify that, "they do not mushroom" if #1 you never break with it, and #2 you don't shoot shot's hard, or use extreme english? Now if you don't do any of the above, and just bunt balls around, I guess it is possible.

I will admit to breaking with my play cue. I have practiced with a new tip, without breaking, and they still mushroom.
The fact is they all compress, except for real hard tips, and even they do a tiny bit. Those plain brown med to med firm w/b was my favorite. No one out here has any. The only ones I find are the real hard ones, and very very dark brown. I play with a Talisman w/b on one shaft that I compressed before it was installed. The Talisman pro med mushroomed a lot, but I am able to trim it at the house.
Just after it got broke in, it went flying several feet on a break. Thats not the tips fault. I wasn't interested in the tip or where it went, I just switched shafts. It looked like there was a small void or surface contact.
I have several pro med tips Troy, 2 for 1 trade? Don't get me wrong, I liked the feel, but they did not hold chalk real good. The dome of the tip shows glue lines between the layers and thats where chalk is very light.

My answer to the original question. #1 I have to like the feel, #2 the tip holds chalk well, #3 it holds it's shape.
If your present tip meets or exceeds the above, then I can not think of any reason to change brands of tips. <hr></blockquote>

04-12-2002, 02:31 AM
I ust talked to John Horsefall the other day and told him that I liked my Buffalo tip and wondered what he used... he told me that he uses a triangle and he uses a buffalo tip to break with... he wondered if I had been miscuing alot with my buffalo and I replied no as I hadnt miscued at all since it's been on.

Kato
04-12-2002, 07:23 AM
My roomate asked me if I liked the tips I play with and my answer was yes. He asked me if I'd ever had a bad Triangle and I said no. He asked me a whole bunch of questions and I couldn't say why I didn't want my Triangle. I just kind of like to experiment (a good quality I think) and he told me to focus on what my problems were and not my tip.

Kato~~~still gonna try a new one but I'll probably get yelled at by someone.

Q-guy
04-12-2002, 07:33 AM
With a very small amount of equipment you can do your own tips. If you are a serious player, It is worth learning to doing. Not so much to save the money, but suppose you don't like the tip you just got? What do you do, ask your tip man to put on another tip for free. Plus it is a hassle. Not every tip even of the same brand is going to be to your liking. I saw Bloodworth put on 4 tips for Miz at a tournament once. He cut off the tip each time after only a few minutes of play. Think about sitting at night at your little work bench and cleaning up your shaft, maybe getting out a ding or two. removing a little mushroom from your tip. Very rewarding.

Rip
04-12-2002, 08:22 AM
Q Guy, what is your idea of "a very small amount of equipment"? If you were just beginning to do your own tips, clean shafts and remove simple dings what pieces of equipment would you buy? Maybe you could give two scenarios--if money was no object and if money was a concern. I'd prefer to do my own routine maintenance (tips, cleaning, ding removal) but have no interest in joint work, wraps, etc. So what exactly should I consider buying? TIA, Rip

Q-guy
04-12-2002, 08:53 AM
When you say you use a pad under your tip. What is the pad made of? I use a thin piece of phenolic but some are hard leather or some kind of fiber board type of stuff. I wonder if you had a particular kind of pad you prefer. I can't tell any difference myself. Could you really tell in a blind test if the ferrule were masked so you would not know if there were a pad or not?

Fred Agnir
04-12-2002, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> When you say you use a pad under your tip. What is the pad made of? I use a thin piece of phenolic but some are hard leather or some kind of fiber board type of stuff. I wonder if you had a particular kind of pad you prefer. <hr></blockquote>

It's the black one that Atlas (or anyone else I suppose) sells. I think they say it's fiber.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I can't tell any difference myself. Could you really tell in a blind test if the ferrule were masked so you would not know if there were a pad or not? <hr></blockquote>

I can feel the difference. I like the feel and sound (maybe that's the same) of "with pad." Maybe because the Schuler joint is designed with a very small amount of vibration through the joint (muted) that it's easier to tell with and without a pad on a Schuler. If the joint rings/vibrates a lot to begin with, then the pad presence maybe wouldn't make an overall perception difference.

Fred

SpiderMan
04-12-2002, 10:03 AM
Rod,

I was expecting exactly what you said, a layered coarse-fibered tip that played a little softer than some others I had tried. Got a surprise, though, it played harder than a rock. I let several other folks shoot with my cue also, and they all agreed with me. It was so hard that I could feel the chatter in my grip hand. Part of it may be my Jacoby cue, it has always had a very stiff hit and makes all tips seem a grade harder. The combination I was trying to use last night would have made a good break cue, but I couldn't play with any confidence.

Another thing that I did not like about the Talisman layered WB was it's behavior when touching up the crown. The leather seemed to come off unevenly, leaving a stepped "wedding cake" profile rather than a smooth curvature. Maybe I got a bad batch, I have a half-dozen or so that I got at the same time around Christmas. I've never had that problem with the Pro series, or any other layered tips.

So, I cut the dumb thing off as soon as I got home. I had a very hard time getting the knife through it, as if the tip were more glue than leather. They I installed a Triangle over a fiber pad. We'll see how that combination feels tonight. If I don't like it, I may just go back to the Talisman Pro Soft and resign myself to more-frequent replacement.

SpiderMan



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Spiderman, that w/b med has coarse fiber, that I like, for the same reason as you. It will compress and needs to be trimmed. I compressed mine .050" before it was installed.
It does hold chalk pretty good and the hit is good. Out of the box, there going to feel real soft. I am speaking of the Talisman wb. <hr></blockquote>

SpiderMan
04-12-2002, 10:15 AM
Sounds like there could be an issue with consistency in manufacture. I can see the lines on the crown of all my layered tips, but the Pro series retains a smooth contour anyway. The layered WB I tried yesterday actually had ridges you could feel, and touching up the crown wouldn't make them go away because the fibers were coming off in such a way as to maintain the "stepped" effect.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Really, you don't see a line/s? They were very apparent on my tip. The WB looks good though. Scratching my head now. If I didn't put on glasses I would not of seen them either.
Well the stroke isn't what it once was, but it's as good once as it ever was! I'll work on that. <hr></blockquote>

SpiderMan
04-12-2002, 10:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I, too , am a LePro and Triangle user, and at one time thought the French Champion tips were the best until I couldn't get them anymore.
<hr></blockquote>

Tom,

There is a French brand "Chandivert" that has marketed a tip called "Champion" for many years, but they are still in all the stores. Is the no-longer-made "French Champion" you refer to something older?

SpiderMan

stickman
04-12-2002, 10:45 AM
Other than getting instruction from Scott Lee, there is nothing I'd rather do than to buy the equipment and learn to do tips. I'd love to buy the Willard tipping machine and do my own and everyone else around here. No one in town does them, and can do a professional job. I'm not at all looking for sympathy!!!!!, but thought I'd let you know my present condition. Two years ago, I had a great job and great health. Then I got sick, and had to spend 11 days in the hospital. I was having blood pressure that would jump up to stroke level, and unbearable migraine headaches. While in the hospital, they managed to get the blood pressure down and told me that my kidneys were failing. I struggled with it for a year. I would work a job get sick and loose it, I jumped from one job to another before I finally realized I could no longer work. I'm on dialysis now and disabled. That by itself wouldn't be so bad, but recently, I've had another problem. I saw the doctor today and found out that I don't have a tumor on my adrenal gland, which they highly suspected. They have no idea what is wrong with me. I have frequent attacks, that cause excruciating pain. Blood pressure shoots up, headache, severe abdominal pain, sweating, and nausea. These last for about an hour, and up til now the docs haven't been able to do anything about it. Stress, excitement, anger, or physical exertion seem to bring these on. The condition seems to be worsening lately. I've been having several attacks a day. Last night I went to the pool hall to practice and was only able to practice for thirty minutes. I was totally worn out. A few weeks ago, I was able to play all night. With the lost income and all the medical expenses, I find myself having to sell the new house I built, just before getting sick, I'm trying to sell my boat, and already sold my fifth wheel camper. In other words, I can't afford the equipment right now. Please don't think I'm crying, because I'm not. I just hope the doctors figure out how to get me better soon so I can play pool again. What will REALLY upset me is if I miss my appointment with Scott in another week and a half. I might cry then. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Q-guy
04-12-2002, 11:41 AM
You can use something as simple as an electric drill. B&amp;D sells a bench mount for about $10.00 for a drill. You can mount an arbor on the shaft of an electric motor to spin your shaft. Any machine shop could make you up a custom arbor. A cheap wood lathe is very good. Wood turners turn blanks of wood that weigh 20 lbs or more so they need a massive lathe. For cues the most light duty lathe is fine. By the way, there is a method for building cut down sneaky petes on the wood lathe and they come out just as good as on the metal lathe. Then of course you could buy a metal lathe and everything you would need to build cues, that would be the high end.

04-12-2002, 12:40 PM
Damn Spiderman, so much for me hitting balls with the WB now! You know me, the harder the better, so the hit you described really had my ears perked up.

Naaa, just kiddin' with ya, I fully understand that you are hurriedly wanting to get a tip you like settled in asap prior to Vegas. Tell me, how did it's hit compare to my XH Talismans you've installed for me in the past. You've surely hit balls with my cues since then...sid~~~guess he may end up having one put on the break cue just to find out how hard it hits.

Rod
04-12-2002, 12:50 PM
Someone else here mentioned their w/b was very hard, and I don't remember who it was. At any rate it seems there must be some discrepancy from batch to batch. They are green in color, and they do fuzz up or as you said do not sand evenly. This is really true when touching up the tip by hand. I do not know how they react in a lathe, probably much better since they are spinning. What bothers me is, if I tell someone what to expect, and it turns out to be very different. I would not blame anything on the cue. I mentioned in another message that the hit was good, but to clarify that a little, it was good but a different "signal"
compared to the regular pro tip. Personally I'm going to give up on layered tips. One part is enough, adding layers just brings more problems. There is always a trade off somewhere.

04-12-2002, 04:07 PM
Sid,

In my opinion, the "medium" WB tip hit harder than the "hard" and possibly even the "extra hard" Pro. But as I said, some of it may be the difference in my Jacoby and your Woodsworth.

I do, however, attest to the fact that cutting the WB off was much harder than cutting the Pro off. Definitely much denser with glue.

The crown of the WB, however, was not slick but rather a little fuzzy. Too bad the crowning tended to work out in the wedding-cake fashion, or it would be a great tip for someone who likes extra-hard and still wants good chalking. I'd say a break stick might be an ideal application, maybe with a very gentle (quarter?) rounding on the crown.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Damn Spiderman, so much for me hitting balls with the WB now! You know me, the harder the better, so the hit you described really had my ears perked up.

Naaa, just kiddin' with ya, I fully understand that you are hurriedly wanting to get a tip you like settled in asap prior to Vegas. Tell me, how did it's hit compare to my XH Talismans you've installed for me in the past. You've surely hit balls with my cues since then...sid~~~guess he may end up having one put on the break cue just to find out how hard it hits. <hr></blockquote>

SpiderMan
04-12-2002, 04:10 PM
Sorry, I forgot to login. Above post is by "me".

SpiderMan

Tom_In_Cincy
04-12-2002, 04:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Tom,
There is a French brand "Chandivert" that has marketed a tip called "Champion" for many years, but they are still in all the stores. Is the no-longer-made "French Champion" you refer to something older? SpiderMan <hr></blockquote>

Yes.. I believe they stopped making them in the late 70s early 80s. The brand you mentioned is not the same.

SpiderMan
04-12-2002, 04:21 PM
Stickman,

Several years ago I read a documentary about high blood pressure that mentioned a little-known cause you might want to ask your doctors about. Apparently there is a feedback mechanism (I think it is near the spine at the base of the skull) which regulates blood pressure. It mainly consists of an arterial section that is positioned near a sensor. The brain does whatever is necessary to keep the perceived pressure at this sensor in the correct range. Some hypertensive patients with no apparent problems were found to have dislocated placement of the section relative to the sensor. In other words, the feedback from the arterial section was muted by being too far away from the sensor, so the brain would try to raise the blood pressure to compensate. Sort of like a thermostat that is too insulated from the room it is controlling, so it keeps the heat on.

A simple surgical cure, moving the arterial loop nearer the nerve sensor, dropped blood pressure drastically.

Don't know why I'm tying this to your case, but for some reason it was triggered in my memory.

Best wishes,

SpiderMan

BillPorter
04-12-2002, 06:37 PM
Just to add a bit of confusion to the topic....I recently installed a Hercules layered tip. Got one from Billiards Express for $7.50. I've only played with the tip for a few hours, but so far I like it better than the Talismans I have used (both the Talisman Pro medium and the Talisman WB medium). I liked the Talisman tips, but the Hercules seems to be a bit softer hit and holds the chalk very well. See if you can give one a try.

stickman
04-12-2002, 09:15 PM
Thanks Spiderman. I'll ask them. They decided that my anemia was out of control and that I needed to resume my shots for it. That accounts for my lack of energy, but still no idea about the attacks I'm having. I'm looking for any ideas for these attacks I'm suffering. I've got to get better so I can at least play pool. It's about the last hobby I have left, and I enjoy it immensely.

SpiderMan
04-13-2002, 01:47 AM
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/funkychateau/lst?&amp;.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&amp;.src=ph&amp;.view=t&amp;.last=1

Try going to the above for closeup photos of installed tips.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
04-13-2002, 01:48 AM
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/funkychateau/lst?&amp;.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&amp;.src=ph&amp;.view=t&amp;.last=1

Try going to the above for closeup photos of installed tips.

SpiderMan

stickman
04-13-2002, 02:00 AM
Thanks for the link. I can easily see the wedding cake effect after you have used one and reshaped by hand a couple of times. There were some indications of it on the brand new install.

04-13-2002, 11:05 AM
I have spent more money than I care to admit on tips looking for the best tip for me. Each new tip was "the best one" but I still returned to the Triangle each time.
When I bought my current cue it came with a Triangle tip. I have never changed since.

Cuemage
04-13-2002, 07:33 PM
I had a Talisman Hard put on my break cue today I played with it as well...worked fine for breaking, but requires constant chalking when playing with it...&amp; it's true about the glue-gloss thing in certain places...had to buy a tip pik to address the problem...I'll keep you posted on how it does...

Tha Cuemage

SpiderMan
04-13-2002, 11:01 PM
Rod,

The triangle on the pad played very well. It took a few hours to get used to it, but I think I'm going to leave it on at least through APA and BCA nationals.

Adding the pad seems to have eliminated any tendency for "chatter" in the tip's response. I'm playing pretty well with it. I still need to get re-calibrated regarding how much cue-tip offset to use for a desired amount of english, though. The triangle/pad combination seems to grab the ball more than the Talisman Pro Soft, so my ball is tending to go a little wide on "english kicks". As an alternative, I may go back to a penny contour instead of a dime to get a little less spin.

I have a Scotch doubles match tomorrow at noon, hopefully I'm ready now.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr> Rod,

So, I cut the dumb thing off as soon as I got home. I had a very hard time getting the knife through it, as if the tip were more glue than leather. They I installed a Triangle over a fiber pad. We'll see how that combination feels tonight. If I don't like it, I may just go back to the Talisman Pro Soft and resign myself to more-frequent replacement.



SpiderMan

<hr></blockquote>

Rod
04-14-2002, 02:07 AM
The Chandivert French tip is the only Champion tip I've ever heard of or used. In the 60's and 70's they were a softer tip than they are today. They needed a little break in time and played well. Some where in the late 80's they were pressed very hard, they all had a red fibre pad. I have two or three that are more recent without a pad. They are very hard also.

Rod
04-14-2002, 02:30 AM
Spiderman, that's what I would do, commit to a tip and stick with it. I doubt the radius is a big deal, but you can expierment. More than likely you like the feel, compared to the other tips, and the cue ball responds better. If you have confidence in your equipment it actually improves your stroke. That means you go through the c/b better and more responce. Confidence is everything in this game, and equipment has a say in this matter. If it didn't, why not play with a house cue, with a beat up worn out tip? BTW those pictures looked real familiar!

stickman
04-14-2002, 10:31 AM
Wow, the feedback on this has been great! If I don't change my mind again, LOL, I think I'll try the triangle with a pad. Thanks for all the opinions.

SpiderMan
04-15-2002, 09:32 AM
Yes, that's been my goal. I only changed out the tips because I was afraid that mine wouldn't last through Nationals, and I wanted plenty of time to adjust. Since I was changing it anyway, I thought it would be as good a time as any to check out the Talisman WB (which I didn't like) and still have plenty of time to change a few more times before the schedule became critical. I think I'll stick with the triangle, though.

Are you talking about the tip pictures? I think several of them are the same ones that I emailed to you when we were talking tips a while back.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Spiderman, that's what I would do, commit to a tip and stick with it. I doubt the radius is a big deal, but you can expierment. More than likely you like the feel, compared to the other tips, and the cue ball responds better. If you have confidence in your equipment it actually improves your stroke. That means you go through the c/b better and more responce. Confidence is everything in this game, and equipment has a say in this matter. If it didn't, why not play with a house cue, with a beat up worn out tip? BTW those pictures looked real familiar! <hr></blockquote>

Rod
04-15-2002, 10:20 AM
So thats why they looked familiar, duh! Really I don't think I saw the pic's of the Talisman WB before. I said it looked familiar because that's what my WB looked like. You can see the steps/layers and glue lines.

Rod
04-15-2002, 10:22 AM
Sorry Troy, I get emotional when it comes to tips.

SpiderMan
04-15-2002, 04:30 PM
That's correct, the WB picture was just taken last week.

I was really disappointed in that product. I've hyped the Talisman Pros some, and several guys (like Sid V) that I put them on for really like them a lot. But for a tip as hard as the Talisman WB to come apart so unevenly is not very good at all. Maybe for a break cue, where you seldom re-crown it, it would settle into a useable curvature. I'll never put another one on anyone's play cue

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> So thats why they looked familiar, duh! Really I don't think I saw the pic's of the Talisman WB before. I said it looked familiar because that's what my WB looked like. You can see the steps/layers and glue lines. <hr></blockquote>

04-15-2002, 07:06 PM
The inconsistancy and hunting for a hardness I like is the reason I started fooling with layered tips and 1 piece WB tips. My biggest peeve with LePro tips is the time it takes to get one hitting right. After it is worn to the point of having about a week or two left it is perfect.

All I want in a tip brand is to be able to grab one from any box of a given hardness and it be real close to the last one and it not break in about the time it is worn out!