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View Full Version : who makes the best production cues



justbrake
09-26-2003, 11:00 PM
I would like to get some good appians on production cues and to find out if a custom cue is that much better!, I have been away from shooting pool since a teen and getting back into it and need a little help! Thanks-justbrake

JPB
09-26-2003, 11:19 PM
Too many variables to really answer. I am much happier with the custom cue I got than any production cue I have, or have had, or have hit with. And the price was less than a lot of "limited edition" or fancy production cues. More than a regular production cue however. I doubt I would ever buy another production cue. I happened to be in the store where I bought my table today and looked at some cues just to compare them since getting a custom. The balance was uniformly bad on the fancier cues, (the best balanced were one piece house cues, after those was a cheap and not very good sneaky pete) most looked bad, and they give you no real pride of ownership. I would not spend significant money on one. If I had to have a production cue again, I'd find something with a predator shaft. Or a sneaky pete. Other than that I don't know. I have never hit with one, but I might consider a schuler for a production cue. They have an idea of what makes a good cue from seeing some of their info. But I can't recommend it since I've never hit with one.

Get a custom. You will like it better.

justbrake
09-27-2003, 11:29 AM
right now i have a meucci with the two black dot shafts and I have a old helmstetter which i'm using with one of my black dot shafts , I had to send the meucci back to them because of the shitty job they done on the wrap and the second shaft looked like a seconds shaft (terrable) looking , but anyway I picked up a viking cue yesterday at a pool hall and it was really bad the shaft was in no way any comparisson to a black dot and for the 250.00 they were asking was way out of line cheap-cheap-cheap junk.I might try a predator 3k6 out of all the production cues, if not i will go with a custom cue buy who i don't know ! well thanks for your feedback , anyway what custom cue do you have! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif Thanks-justbrake

tateuts
09-27-2003, 10:30 PM
I think Schons are the best production cues. They seem to have set the standard everyone else aspires to, although they are more of a limited production, semi-custom cue. Beside their high quality cues, which do not use plastic inlays, I think they are a well run, customer oriented company. I like the fact that you can call them and get a very good new shaft for a reasonable $128.

To me, it doesn't make sense to buy a high end McDermott or Viking when you can get a mid-range Schon for the same price. Their entry level cues can be had for $400 - $500 and are custom quality players right out of the box.

Chris

AzBlueMach1
09-28-2003, 12:47 AM
You know, I was talking to about the best player I know about schons the other day. He was going on about how the new prod models suck, and they were bad for draw, because of the metal joint. He also said the cues were good for follow because of the same reason. Unfortunatly, it is hard to try out a schon, because most retailers cannot afford to stock them.

Personally, I have only hit mid-80s schons, and they played great.

For my dollar, Joss cues have the best hit of the "normal" production cues. I know that the normal joss (east) cues dont even compare to Joss West or 70's joss cues, but the hit is still pretty good. I beat a road player 14-1 playing with one for 200$ a set once /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Later

Brent
09-28-2003, 05:52 AM
I personally had a question about Lucasi cues that cost about 200-300. What do u think about them ? And Id also like ur opinion on Players cues. Thnx

cheesemouse
09-28-2003, 06:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brent:</font><hr> I personally had a question about Lucasi cues that cost about 200-300. What do u think about them ? And Id also like ur opinion on Players cues. Thnx <hr /></blockquote>

Brent,

I bought a Lucasi for a friend and had it shipped to myself. I played with it for two days before I delivered it to my buddy. It was less that $200, it hit the ball decent and it had great 12 &amp; 3 aesthetics.

Fred Agnir
09-28-2003, 06:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AzBlueMach1:</font><hr> You know, I was talking to about the best player I know about schons the other day. He was going on about how the new prod models suck, and they were bad for draw, because of the metal joint. He also said the cues were good for follow because of the same reason.Later <hr /></blockquote> I think this reasoning is complete nonsense. IMNSHO.

Fred

tateuts
09-28-2003, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brent:</font><hr> I personally had a question about Lucasi cues that cost about 200-300. What do u think about them ? And Id also like ur opinion on Players cues. Thnx <hr /></blockquote>

Well, we don't get many posters from Estonia - I hope all is well with you there.

I am not very knowledgable about inexpensive cues. The posters here seem to think Lucasi's are good, which are Asian imports commissioned by a reputable dealer here in the US - I've seen them and I would say they're good for the money, being very similar to Adams cues in terms of quality.

I do know a collector who owns a couple of Southwest cues, and he swears that the KC brand Southwest copy on E-Bay is an excellent cue - these go for about $100 - they sure look like the real deal. I'm going to order one and do a review on it for CCB. Careful to make sure it's the KC cue - there are a lot of Southwest copies on E-Bay. The trick is to be able to convince the seller to ship it to Estonia. I've shipped some cues to Europe with the US post office, and I haven't had a problem.

I don't think Players and Actions are in the same category, being more comparable to the old Imperial line of cues.

Chris

JPB
09-28-2003, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brent:</font><hr> I personally had a question about Lucasi cues that cost about 200-300. What do u think about them ? And Id also like ur opinion on Players cues. Thnx <hr /></blockquote>

I have one and it is OK. I bought it before I had my custom. I got a deal on it since somebody had the store order it then didn't pay for it. I also took the predator shaft he ordered in. The build quality is so-so. Not great. The wrap is bad. It is slick and poorly wound - strands come loose. The standard shaft plays OK for a production cue. I usually use the predator when I play with it. I got it because I tried it and played well with that particular cue. I don't know if I'd get another. I will probably keep it as an emergency backup or a break cue or something. I think Lucasis are OK for the money. I'd probably get something else because of the build quality and wrap and stick a predator shaft on. I think you can get a plain Joss from hawleys for like 170. Josses are better made than lucasis. I'd proably also get a plain helmstetter and stick a predator on before getting a lucasi.
Anyway, I kind of regret getting the lucasi even though I play OK w/ it and even won a very small tourney w/ it. There were no really good players in it, but if you see me play you will agree any win is a miracle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Brent
09-28-2003, 11:07 AM
Thnx guys for ur feedback. Im playing with a cheap Taiwanese cue right now so Lucasi is prolly gonna be super-good for me. I cant offord one but Wally in Cincy is such a good guy that his sending me his old Lucasi that he doesnt use /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Im so happy about that right now /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif But my question was for a friend who is choosing between some cheap Lucasi or Players. Ok thnx 4 the input.

justbrake
10-02-2003, 05:53 PM
enthusiast=said
Careful to make sure it's the KC cue - there are a lot of Southwest copies on E-Bay.

are these the cues you refer to!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=21212&amp;item=3629298 659

Cueless Joey
10-02-2003, 05:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote AzBlueMach1:</font><hr> You know, I was talking to about the best player I know about schons the other day. He was going on about how the new prod models suck, and they were bad for draw, because of the metal joint. He also said the cues were good for follow because of the same reason.Later <hr /></blockquote> I think this reasoning is complete nonsense. IMNSHO.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
Maybe not. The new Schons' joint collar and pin are ONE-piece I am told. It is definitely different from the old ones.
Maybe, just maybe, it affects the hit. Or it could be mental. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
10-02-2003, 07:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe, just maybe, it affects the hit. Or it could be mental.
<hr /></blockquote>

Could be?

tateuts
10-02-2003, 07:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> enthusiast=said
Careful to make sure it's the KC cue - there are a lot of Southwest copies on E-Bay.

are these the cues you refer to!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=21212&amp;item=3629298 659

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes - that's the cue. The dealers name is "Jim". I ordered one and I should have it in a few days - the six pointer was $135 including shipping to buy it outright. The auction would probably be a better deal, but I didn't want to wait. I'll post a review on it as soon as I get the cue and let you know what I think.

Chris

justbrake
10-02-2003, 08:06 PM
Hi- I see alot of the dealers them selfs buying them and there are some big sellers of known brand cues that are buying these kc cues , but there not saying to much,but great seller, but there buying 3x's ,so i'm going to wait on your post. Thanks!

juanrayon
10-02-2003, 09:56 PM
I would like someone to define "production" versus "custom" cues.
I played pool as a fanatic 30 years ago, left for other vices, and now have returned.
I have about 4 McDermott cues which retailed in the $150-$900 range.
So someone please advise me regarding custom versus procuction cues.

justbrake
10-02-2003, 09:59 PM
I beleive production is massed produced

JPB
10-02-2003, 10:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote juanrayon:</font><hr> I would like someone to define "production" versus "custom" cues.
I played pool as a fanatic 30 years ago, left for other vices, and now have returned.
I have about 4 McDermott cues which retailed in the $150-$900 range.
So someone please advise me regarding custom versus procuction cues.
<hr /></blockquote>

All your McDermotts are production. When there is a company making the cues and they produce standard designs it's a production. If there is one guy who builds the cue with your desires in mind and runs his own shop its a custom IMO. Ideally they are one of a kind even if many are similar. Calling a production company and asking for an option doies not make it a custom. One guy building it at every step with top quality stuff makes it a custom. Some makers blur the line IMO. They may have started out as custom makers but now churn out cues and sell them when done. They make them to sell rather than because they want to or a specific customer asked. That's my take.

Fred Agnir
10-03-2003, 06:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr>
When there is a company making the cues and they produce standard designs it's a production. <hr /></blockquote>

Tough definition. That's why I never like using the words "custom cue."

Take a Mike Lambros. Custom or production? Seems like an easy answer, but consider that Mike puts out a catalog. Would anyone say that Mike makes a production cue? I hope not.

I'd rather say "customized cue" and "mass produced cue." Then there's a ton of variations in the middle. And, it's not about the cuemaker. It's about the cue. A mass producer can make a customized cue.

A custom cuemaker can have standard designs. So, "standard design cue" or "existing desing cue" should also be terms used. And they probably represent a good percentage of cues out there that people consider "custom."

Fred &lt;~~~ standardly existing

JPB
10-03-2003, 07:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr>
When there is a company making the cues and they produce standard designs it's a production. <hr /></blockquote>

Tough definition. That's why I never like using the words "custom cue."

Take a Mike Lambros. Custom or production? Seems like an easy answer, but consider that Mike puts out a catalog. Would anyone say that Mike makes a production cue? I hope not.

I'd rather say "customized cue" and "mass produced cue." Then there's a ton of variations in the middle. And, it's not about the cuemaker. It's about the cue. A mass producer can make a customized cue.

A custom cuemaker can have standard designs. So, "standard design cue" or "existing desing cue" should also be terms used. And they probably represent a good percentage of cues out there that people consider "custom."

Fred &lt;~~~ standardly existing <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I think a cuemaker can have standard designs, but I think it is a bit dangerous in that it lends itself to churning out cues. If you can call up and ask for a "model AA12-19" or whatever, I really don't know if the cue is custom. OTOH, a cuemakers work will take on a certain look and cues will be similar, and I guess I don't know the exact line between custom and production.

Here is one factor to look for though. When you contact the cuemaker you get the cuemaker on the phone or by e-mail. You don't get an employee, secretary, marketing department, or referred out to a distributor. He answers your qustions and tells you what he can do. Then he does it if you decide to get one and pay him. I had a cuemaker utterly fail this test with me. He is regarded as a custom maker and his cues are overpriced and collectible. The designs are somewhat standard. But he is regarded as a custom maker. So I called him up and asked about cues and waiting times, etc.... He said call their distributor. That guy IS NOT a custom cue maker. He has a small factory. I think he churns cues of standard designs and ships most to Japan. I don't care if his cues fetch 5000 and people go ooooh and aaaaah over them. It is a production cue.

A custom maker knows and believes in his product. Tells you what he plays with and why. And he builds a cue for you. The wait might be long and he might be hard to deal with, but you don't get told to call a distributor to see what's in stock in a warehouse. And I kind of disagree with your statement that it is about the cue, not the cuemaker. A production house maybe can "customize" a cue, but it isn't a custom. IMO a Schon or McDermott or Meucci can never be a custom no matter what. Customized sure. But it will never carry the same pride of ownership as a bespoke one of a kind built by an individual cuemaker. That's a custom.

Fred Agnir
10-03-2003, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr> And I kind of disagree with your statement that it is about the cue, not the cuemaker. A production house maybe can "customize" a cue, but it isn't a custom. IMO a Schon or McDermott or Meucci can never be a custom no matter what. <hr /></blockquote>

Hard ass. j/k.

As if it isn't tough enough, this is another gray area of the custom/production line. I'll add some thoughts to chew on.

Dan Janes of Joss Ltd. makes or used to make 12 or so custom cues a year. Even though Joss Ltd. is a mass producer, those 12 IMO shouldn't be called production.

Another example is Huebler. They even have two names for their shops I think to differentiate what is custom and what is mass produced.

If you ordered a one-of-a-kind $1500 Viking cue that Gordon Hart made himself to your specifications, is it still production?

Bob Meucci most likely made custom cues before he became the million cue maker. What if you get your hands on one from that time period? Is it still a production cue? And what about that $100K gold encrusted cue that Jim Rempe used? Just another Meucci?

What about a Runde Schön vs. an Evan Clark Schön?

Fred &lt;~~~ got no answers

magicman
10-03-2003, 12:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> I would like to get some good appians on production cues and to find out if a custom cue is that much better!, I have been away from shooting pool since a teen and getting back into it and need a little help! Thanks-justbrake <hr /></blockquote>


May I jump in and comment please, I think you all need to break this up into 3 catagories, $100-200 $200-300 $300 up. You all have ignored the bottom range, that is where the most production cues are made and sold. Players and Stealth are both fine playing cues for the money. The Chinese have cues now on the market that are nothing but knockoffs of Meucci's, you can buy a $125 cue that draws and follows great and plays as well as any American $300 cue, it's a very scary thing.

JPB
10-03-2003, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr> And I kind of disagree with your statement that it is about the cue, not the cuemaker. A production house maybe can "customize" a cue, but it isn't a custom. IMO a Schon or McDermott or Meucci can never be a custom no matter what. <hr /></blockquote>

Hard ass. j/k.

As if it isn't tough enough, this is another gray area of the custom/production line. I'll add some thoughts to chew on.

Dan Janes of Joss Ltd. makes or used to make 12 or so custom cues a year. Even though Joss Ltd. is a mass producer, those 12 IMO shouldn't be called production.

Another example is Huebler. They even have two names for their shops I think to differentiate what is custom and what is mass produced.

If you ordered a one-of-a-kind $1500 Viking cue that Gordon Hart made himself to your specifications, is it still production?

Bob Meucci most likely made custom cues before he became the million cue maker. What if you get your hands on one from that time period? Is it still a production cue? And what about that $100K gold encrusted cue that Jim Rempe used? Just another Meucci?

What about a Runde Schön vs. an Evan Clark Schön?

Fred &lt;~~~ got no answers

<hr /></blockquote>


I think if dan janes makes it himself it is a custom. But I think he should do something to distinguish it from all the production josses. So maybe heubler calling their customs something else is OK. As for the 100K meucci, yeah, it is just another meucci. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As for makers who were once small and custom then became big and cheap and production oriented, I think it should ruin the value of the cue to some degree. The fact they went McDonalds cheapens all the products IMO. Maybe not a lot, but it takes something away I think. Guess I am just a hard ass like you say. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chris Cass
10-03-2003, 12:44 PM
Save your money. The KC cue' joint and buttcap are crap. They don't hit near the hit of a SW. The Omen cue hits close to the hit of a SW.

I'd rather you spend your hard earned money on something that's nice. Save your doe and buy something you won't be stuck with. KC is a total scam IMO. Their sight list their cues for like $500. and they know you'll find them on Ebay for less so you'll buy one. If you don't bid high enough you'll get a email asking if you want the cue and then your history.
Not smart enough to think of it and not low enough to impliment it.

C.C.

RedHell
10-03-2003, 01:55 PM
Chriss,

I never hit with a SW, but I take the word of the net population to believe it is near the best hit available. Now if you would have to compare the hit of a KC to a SW. How would you say the KC qualify out of 100, considering the near perfect hit of a SW would be 95 (I leave room for improvement)....

What I mean is, does a KC hit like a 50 or more like a 10 ?

Just wondering...

Keith Talent
10-03-2003, 02:04 PM
Fred,

Say you snap up a Schuler or Capone from Hawley's or Billiard Warehouse? Are you getting a custom? It wasn't exactly made for you, but you like the specs ... maybe we could just call it small-batch Bourbon?

Fred Agnir
10-03-2003, 03:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> Fred,

Say you snap up a Schuler or Capone from Hawley's or Billiard Warehouse? Are you getting a custom? It wasn't exactly made for you, but you like the specs ... maybe we could just call it small-batch Bourbon? <hr /></blockquote>

That's why I said I don't like the use of the term "custom." The Schulers I have are all pre-made catalog versions. They even have model numbers like SC180, SC250 and the like. I don't think it would be fair to simply herd Schuler cues in the same category as mass produced cues. So, there's got to be a term for these cues that isn't so degrading, if that's what the term "production" has come to be.

Fred

RedHell
10-03-2003, 03:08 PM
I would say that when a cue is out of a production line, more than one or 2 men working on it, we call it production cue.

If the cue comes out of a shop where max 2 men has work on the cue, we call it Craftman's cue.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

plato 17
10-04-2003, 06:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> Fred,

Say you snap up a Schuler or Capone from Hawley's or Billiard Warehouse? Are you getting a custom? It wasn't exactly made for you, but you like the specs ... maybe we could just call it small-batch Bourbon? <hr /></blockquote>


This is a very good point, 99% of the Schuler cues out there are production cues, the only difference between them and a larger company is they only had 3 people making theirs and the bigger company had 30 people, but it was the same process, Meucci vs Schuler.
Again it is the same with both of the above, you would walk in the door and Bob or Ray would take your order and build you a custom cue to your specs, but you would pay a hugh premium over their standard cue you now see on both web sites. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif