View Full Version : wood vs metal joints
09-28-2003, 12:18 PM
I have seen some discussion of the difference in hit with joint types. Usually I shoot with a Predator spw (wood to wood) and recently put a Predator shaft on a cue with a metal to metal joint. The difference in hit from the spw was drastic, both cues the same weight and similar balance. Hard to believe the difference is in the butt.
I much prefer the wood to wood, feels more like a good one piece cue to me.
Question is why does the joint affect the feel of the hit? Assuming it is tight and square of course.
A wood to wood joint is not a wood joint. A wood joint is where the screw is turned out of the wood in the shaft blank and screws into wood threads in the butt. Carom cues are made this way. A wood joint is superior to a "wood-to wood" joint IMO.
You are right though that the joint affects the hit. There are differences in feel. I have never had a flat face wood to wood cue I liked. I hate McDermotts, hate the Heubler I have, hated the Meucci I had. However, I think some of my dislike of those cues is due to other factors in construction rather than the joint. I have never hit a southwest for instance. The Heubler is horribly balanced with a massively heavy joint collar and still transmits no feel even though it flexes too much. The meucci was a noodle.
Anyway, some of the feel is personal preference. What isn't really preference is the weight of the joint and the overall flex of the cue. Ideally you want a light joint and a cue that doesn't flex or buckle a lot. You will lose energy if the cue does a lot of flexing at the joint.
In this regard a true wood joint works very well, although some feel there are problems with them.
09-28-2003, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure of the terminology used with joints. The SPW is advertised as a wood-to-wood Uni-Loc joint. Looks like a flat face wood to wood with a pilot, were the pilot fits into to wood (no metal sleeve) of the butt.
My guess is any discontinuity in the cue will affect the vibrations in the cue. Whether good or bad depends on one's preference I Suppose. Certainly seems to me the wood joint you describe would be more like a one piece cue.
Also agree with you on the Meucci. Had mine stolen, my reaction was good riddance! Would have felt guilty selling it to anyone.
09-29-2003, 07:18 AM
The only metal to metal joint I have ever seen and played with is a Robinson. As you would imagine, it is a very solid hitting cue.
The piloted joints with the stainless steel are not metal to metal. The plastic joint collar on the shaft contacts the stainless steel joint on the butt.
There are a lot of things that give a cue a certain feel. The type and quality of wood used is the most important. I also feel that the shaft needs to be somewhat stiff to transmit the feel down through the cue. Otherwise, the vibration gets absorbed in the wippy shaft.
So, imo the type of joint isn't necessarily the most contributing factor to the feel of the cue.
09-29-2003, 08:27 AM
I have 4 cues.One Palmer w/ metal joint,A skip Weston w/ ivory and metal screw,Mcdermott with wood to wood screw,
helmstetter w/metal screw.I alway's thought the wood to wood felt solid,but when I compare them all I don't seem to
notice a big difference, except for my helmstetter cue and on that cue when the tip, gets worn down to where it's very thin,it feels like I develop a great sense of touch with that cue.I spoke to Richard Black about that year's ago and he said that he's had customer's request a very thin tip and usually had to compress them down with a hammer and vise.
09-29-2003, 09:09 AM
Doesn't a Robinson have the joint screw in the shaft instead of the butt half?...JER
09-29-2003, 09:39 AM
[Doesn't a Robinson have the joint screw in the shaft instead of the butt half?...JER]
Yes it does. I'm not sure how the pin is attached to the shaft. On his website he talks about the joint being stiffer since there is no hollowed out cavity in the shaft. In his opinion, not having a cavity in the shaft maintains the structural integrity of the wood.
09-29-2003, 09:42 AM
I stand corrected. The metal sleeve on the butt screws up against the plastic joint collar on the shaft on my cue. This sleeve is about 1/8 " thick and is quite heavy.
The original shaft feels stiffer than the predator shaft and of course hits different. I am assuming the two 314 shafts on the different cues are similar in "stiffness".
BTW, I can't say that the predator shaft puts more spin on the cb. Maybe it is a little easier to use extreme english without miscuing but I have different tips on the shafts. And my stroke sure ain't the best anyway.
09-29-2003, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Anonamus:</font><hr> [Doesn't a Robinson have the joint screw in the shaft instead of the butt half?...JER]
Yes it does. I'm not sure how the pin is attached to the shaft. On his website he talks about the joint being stiffer since there is no hollowed out cavity in the shaft. In his opinion, not having a cavity in the shaft maintains the structural integrity of the wood. <hr /></blockquote>
If that were true, cuemakers would be making cues like Robinson. I've never seen a shaft break with normal use around that area.
09-29-2003, 11:57 AM
I'd have to reread his site, but I don't think he doesn't drill out the shaft because of the possibility of it breaking but rather it produces less flex near the joint area without the cavity.
Again, this is just his opinion.
09-29-2003, 12:16 PM
I think Robinson's touting his joint too much.
I've played with one of his fancy cues.
They have a dead feel and have a ton of deflection for my liking.
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