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09-29-2003, 09:55 AM

PQQLK9
09-29-2003, 10:01 AM
yes...

Rich R.
09-29-2003, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Object ball is frozen to the rail right on the tip of a side pocket. It may or not go in, but if it is hit, doesn't go in, hits the other tip of the same side pocket, is this a legitimate hit? <hr /></blockquote>
I believe this issue was discussed, quite a while back. You may find it in the archives.

IIRC, the rules experts established that, although it has a hole in the middle, the entire side rail is considered "one" rail. Therefore, if the cue ball doesn't hit the rail and the object ball only hits the other side of the pocket, as you described, it is a foul, because you did not hit a rail, other than the frozen rail.

Of course, I probably remembered this whole thing from a dream and have it all back asswards. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rod
09-29-2003, 10:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
IIRC, the rules experts established that, although it has a hole in the middle, the entire side rail is considered "one" rail. Therefore, if the cue ball doesn't hit the rail and the object ball only hits the other side of the pocket, as you described, it is a foul, because you did not hit a rail, other than the frozen rail.

<hr /></blockquote>

Rich,

I don't recall the exact question but similar has come up. I know people have thought the rail on the other side of the side pocket is sperate, but it isn't. Like you said it is one long rail and a foul.

Rod

cheesemouse
09-29-2003, 11:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I probably remembered this whole thing from a dream and have it all back asswards.
<hr /></blockquote>

HAHAHAHA.....Funny stuff, Manord... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PQQLK9
09-29-2003, 11:21 AM
guess I was wrong... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

stick8
09-29-2003, 11:21 AM
o.k. we have determened this a foul. what If the cue ball hits the rail the ball was frozen to. Is it still a foul?

Rich R.
09-29-2003, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stick8:</font><hr> o.k. we have determened this a foul. what If the cue ball hits the rail the ball was frozen to. Is it still a foul? <hr /></blockquote>
No. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris in NC
09-29-2003, 12:27 PM
I don't think this question is addressed in the BCA rulebook as to whether a pool table consists of 6 rails or 4 rails, and the implications that would have for rulings such as this.

As far as a table mechanic goes, most tables have 6 separate rails, and I've always though of it that way. My guess would be that since it was a separate rail cushion on the opposite side of the side pocket, it would constitute as the OB having hit another rail and be a legal shot. I will check my BCA rulebook and follow up if I find anything helpful pertaining to this. - Chris in NC

Fred Agnir
09-29-2003, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> I don't think this question is addressed in the BCA rulebook as to whether a pool table consists of 6 rails or 4 rails, and the implications that would have for rulings such as this. <hr /></blockquote>

This is the way the ruling is worded:

OBJECT BALL FROZEN TO CUSHION OR CUE BALL
This rule applies to any shot where the cue ballís first contact with a ball is with one that is frozen to a cushion or to the cue ball itself. After the cue ball makes contact with the frozen object ball, the shot must result in either:

(a) A ball being pocketed, or;

(b) The cue ball contacting a cushion, or;

(c) The frozen ball being caused to contact a cushion attached to a separate rail, or;

(d) Another object ball being caused to contact a cushion with which it was not already in contact. Failure to satisfy one of those four requirements is a foul. (Note: 14.1 and other games specify additional requirements and applications of this rule; see specific game rules.) A ball which is touching a cushion at the start of a shot and then is forced into a cushion attached to the same rail is not considered to have been driven to that cushion unless it leaves the cushion, contacts another ball, and then contacts the cushion again. An object ball is not considered frozen to a cushion unless it is examined and announced as such by either the referee or one of the players prior to that object ball being involved in a shot.
------------------------------
It seems apparent to me that both the sections boldfaced above are trying to clarify that the two cushions connected to a side rail are in fact not considered "separate." I conclude this because there is no other possibility (of understanding the statements) when considering the second boldfaced statement above. That is, when is it possible to contact two different cushions that are attached to the same rail?

Fred

Chris Cass
09-29-2003, 01:55 PM
Hi Nick,

When you buy a rails from Mueller they charge you for 6. Besides, the tits compress about 1/16ths so you can make the ball if you power it.

Regards,

C.C.~~Dawg of Nick and that goes without saying, always.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Karatemom
09-29-2003, 03:21 PM
You're good, Fred. Anyway, that's exactly what I would have said!

Heide ~ yeah, right /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rod
09-29-2003, 04:39 PM
A table has 4 rails, two long and two short. LOL The cushions (6) are attached to those rails.

Rod

Chris Cass
09-30-2003, 01:34 AM
Now that makes sence. Nice job Rod.

C.C.

jjinfla
09-30-2003, 06:00 AM
The table has 4 rails and 6 cushions.

The cushions are attached to the rails.

BCA Rule 3.38 Object ball frozen to cushion or cue ball

...the shot must result in...
(c) the frozen ball being caused to contact a cushion attached to a separate rail.

So in this example it would be a foul.

Jake

jjinfla
09-30-2003, 06:36 AM
They are called points Chris. I doubt that you can order "tits" from Meuller. LOL Jake

jjinfla
09-30-2003, 06:41 AM
This is strange. When I first read this thread this morning none of the posts from Fred on down were listed.
And my post took a long time to post and then AOL dropped me off line. Jake

Chris Cass
09-30-2003, 11:06 AM
Are you sure? Meuller has everything. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

C.C.~~LOL

Sid_Vicious
09-30-2003, 11:27 AM
The tits have a familiar adjective(f-name) added in front of the announcement of their "helping" where I play. One of those familiar billiards terms ya know ;-) sid