PDA

View Full Version : Who should be allowed to call fouls? And Why?



Gayle in MD
10-10-2003, 09:56 AM
Dear friends,
I would appreciate your opinions about who should be allowed to call fouls. My opinion is that if you have a situation where someone is shooting, and three or four opposing players can yell out "Foul" screaming at your shooter, it is not only un-nerving to the shooter, but also creates situations for tempers to flare up and cause trouble.

Does anyone know, wouldn't that be the reason why APA has the rule in the first place, to make for a more trouble free, pleasant and less antagonistic atmosphere for all?

I know the APA says only Captains, Co-Captains, and coaches can call fouls, although their players can notify them on anything they may have missed, and have them call the foul. To me, this seems much more sensible.

This subject will be discussed and voted on at the next captains meeting, and BTW, the LD doesn't agree with me. What do you guys think, doesn't it make for a calmer more polite and less antagonistic atmosphere not to put a shooter in a position where they have four or five people yelling out "Foul?"

I have seen this lead to arguements more than once, and would appreciate your input...
Thanking you in advance,
Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2003, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
......doesn't it make for a calmer more polite and less antagonistic atmosphere not to put a shooter in a position where they have four or five people yelling out "Foul?"<hr /></blockquote>

yep

IMO the player or coach should be the only ones calling fouls. I guess you could throw the captain in there too.

Ralph S.
10-10-2003, 10:14 AM
Gayle, many of us here have played in and some have captained league teams. I firmly believe that the only ones calling fouls should be the players involved in the match or an offiial called over to make the call by request of one of the said players involved. If this is followed things usually run smooth and no problems. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

CarolNYC
10-10-2003, 11:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
an official called over <hr /></blockquote>
I agree /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif:):)
Carol~thinks teamplay is very difficult!

cheesemouse
10-10-2003, 11:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> Gayle, many of us here have played in and some have captained league teams. I firmly believe that the only ones calling fouls should be the players involved in the match or an offiial called over to make the call by request of one of the said players involved. If this is followed things usually run smooth and no problems. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I have to go with Ralph on this one. In addition I think this would be the best for the players learning experience. As I understand it the APA is to promote the newer players into the game and to help them learn the etiquette and proper decorums of the game so that everyone has an enjoyable experience. In fact I would not allow the coach to call fouls just the players or a ref if one was brought in.

road runner 711
10-10-2003, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> Gayle, many of us here have played in and some have captained league teams. I firmly believe that the only ones calling fouls should be the players involved in the match or an offiial called over to make the call by request of one of the said players involved. If this is followed things usually run smooth and no problems. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I have to go with Ralph on this one. In addition I think this would be the best for the players learning experience. As I understand it the APA is to promote the newer players into the game and to help them learn the etiquette and proper decorums of the game so that everyone has an enjoyable experience. In fact I would not allow the coach to call fouls just the players or a ref if one was brought in. <hr /></blockquote>

If two team captains get together and agree to control their players and to fairly work with each other, then only them call the fouls and there is peace. Let all of the players on each team get into the act, turmoil results usually. /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Gayle in MD
10-10-2003, 12:15 PM
I agree with everyone, and a big thank you also for taking the time to help me out. There are times when controversial hits are unforseen, (No one called in to watch the hit in advance) in which case, whom do you think should call the foul?

Another problem area seems to be the call on "Push shots" which, (correct me if I am wrong) as I understand it APA finds so controvrsial, and difficult to call, they don't call them, and say, "Even professionals cannot agree on what is a push shot" I don't think we should call them either. Wondering what you think about them in league play, should they be called or not?
Thanks again...

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2003, 12:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I agree with everyone,

<font color="blue">You're so easy /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

and a big thank you also for taking the time to help me out. There are times when controversial hits are unforseen, (No one called in to watch the hit in advance) in which case, whom do you think should call the foul?

<font color="blue">If no one is called in to watch, or if the players disagree on a possible foul, traditionally the call goes to the shooter. If they still disagree, play the game over. </font color>

Another problem area seems to be the call on "Push shots" which, (correct me if I am wrong) as I understand it APA finds so controvrsial, and difficult to call, they don't call them,

<font color="blue">To my understanding, you understand correctly </font color>

should they be called or not?

<font color="blue">Probably not. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Ralph S.
10-10-2003, 12:35 PM
Hi Gayle. To answer the other questions, IMO a simultaneous hit goes to the shooter. I think push shots should also be deemed illegal hits a called as such a foul. JMHO for what its worth.

jjinfla
10-10-2003, 12:52 PM
Holy torpedoes Gayle, You mean to tell us that the other players on your team actually watch when their teammates play? Now that is novel. I sure hope it doesn't catch on.

The push shot is legal in APA - the push out is not. Go figure.

Preventing other players from calling foul would just cause more problems then letting them call foul. What would the penalty be if someone called a foul? And then the Captain could say he was the co-captain or the coach. And the other team would say you didn't tell us that. And we would say you didn't ask. And then the argument would start. And someone would call the LO. LOL

Forget about it and just "play the table".

Jake

=k=
10-10-2003, 01:02 PM
Gayle I agree with most of the posts, I haven't see a refree at any leauge play.. i think it should be the players who should be able to call fouls and if they disagree then go to captains. of course the exception being the new players.. probly need help calling fouls by coach until they understand foul rules. mho on push shot fouls, drop it. too hard to call for average player..

Fred Agnir
10-10-2003, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> The push shot is legal in APA <hr /></blockquote>It is?

Fred

RedHell
10-10-2003, 02:01 PM
I don't know about APA, but here our VNEA league does not allow by-standers to call foul. It is the responsability of the player to call foul. If the shooter disagree he has the last word.

If a team mate call a foul when it's not his game, it is considered as a coaching foul. VNEA doesn't allow coaching !!! In that case the shooter who comitted the foul gets bih and play again, due to the foul commited by the team mate.

The coaching rule bring in another debate. With time players have recognized that when a team mate is shooting the 8 and forgot his marker, they better tell him and get a foul than having him make the 8 and lose the game. I am currently debating this point with the league organizer, asking them to include a clause for loss of game instead of a simple foul for coaching on the 8.

As for push shot, I don't think they should be allowed. The players or captain should be properly educated to learn to recognize a foul according to the active rule.

jjinfla
10-10-2003, 03:16 PM
Page 96 of the manual Fred.

...Push shots are controversial. Push shots will not be called in this amateur League.

But not exactly legal Fred because later in the same paragraph they state

Players who repeatedly guide the cue ball with force through object balls that are frozen or nearly frozen to the cue ball, using a level cue and long follow through, may be subject to a sportsmanship penalty.

I guess whoever wrote the manual couldn't really make up his mind which side of the fence he wanted to be on.

I see plenty of players shoot straight through the balls with a push shot. As long as the cue stick doesn't go straight through and hit another ball making that one I can live with it. But I don't do it.

Jake