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Steve Lipsky
10-13-2003, 08:58 AM
The tournament is over, and first I want to congratulate Johnny Archer for his win. For those who have not seen him play live, you should really make plans to do so. He has such a strong table presence, such a commanding game. He is a beautiful player to watch.

I also want to congratulate Charlie Williams and the UPA for a very successful tournament. I know the UPA has its detractors, but this organization is on to something. If they had a tournament like this every month or so, I think men's pool would be all the better for it. [For the record, I am still curious about Dubai, and why the top UPA players were allowed to play in a competing tournament.] Still, there was a nice sense of organization and professionalism, and that is a welcome change in men's pool.

It is nice to think of pool's future in a relatively positive light. We have a good crop of younger players who are beginning to make waves, and are doing so with a nice touch of class. Max Eberle, Neils Feijen, Mike Davis, and Nick Schulman are all representing the game in a manner that should make us all proud. I had the pleasure of playing Neils in this tournament and he is a ridiculously nice guy. He made a 9-ball on the break and crapped another one in - and apologized for both. Both Max and Mike Davis are very approachable and are creeping into the top echelon of the game. As for Nicky, I am so proud of him and the way he played. He's got a ton of heart and talent, and I see this as a breakthrough tournament for him. You'll be seeing his name more and more in the coming years. I am sure of that.

Anyway, it was a wonderful tournament and it was such a thrill having all the boys in my home room. If this were to become an annual event, New York City would be all the better for it.

Anyone from the CCB make it down? What were your impressions?

- Steve

CrispyFish
10-14-2003, 12:43 PM
Hi Steve,

I was there the night you played Feijen. I was at the other side, so I didn't get a good view of the match, but toward the end there it looked like you were working on a massive comeback! I was sorry to see you lost. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I agree that it was a great tournament, and I'd love to see it happen again.

Only one point of disagreement, though: I did not think that Nicky played in a manner that could make anybody proud -- at least not from what I saw in his match against Jimmy Wetch. Nicky cursed loudly on many missed shots (for example, when he missed a jump shot, he glared at his jump cue and exclaimed, "I need to learn to use this piece of s***!"). He was very ungraceful when Wetch examined his racks, even though Wetch found the wing ball to be loose a couple times (probably because Nicky was racking at lightspeed and not even checking his racks). He committed an obvious foul, striking the 8 before the 5, and refused to admit it (it didn't help that most of the audience were so quick to side with him -- I guess that's what happens when you're a local favorite). All in all, I felt he acted like a hormonal teenager, very unprofessional. I hope that people near to him will catch onto this and coach him toward a more professional attitude.

Anyway, I had a blast on Friday night and I hope that NYC will see more tournaments of this caliber soon! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

-CF

Steve Lipsky
10-14-2003, 01:23 PM
Hey Crispy. Thanks for the honest reply. I saw most of the Wetch match from afar, so I was not able to hear any of the expletives you mention.

As to the incident with the possible bad hit - and I was definitely not in a position to tell from across the room - a little history should be mentioned. First, numerous spectators told me after the set (including Nicky) that Jimmy fouled in one of the early racks and claimed to not have seen it.

Second (and definitely weighing on Nicky's mind), at the 2002 US Open Nicky was on the winner's side, playing the round to get into the money. He was playing Neil Fujiwara, and the score was 10-9 Nicky. Neil was on 2 fouls, and Nicky played a perfect third safe. Neil was getting ready to examine the position when Nicky told him he wasn't sure that a rail was hit on his safety. They talked it over, and Nicky - unable to decide if it was a good hit or not - just picked up the cueball and gave Neil ball-in-hand. Neil proceeded to win the set.

I tell this story not to say what a good guy Nicky is, because in truth I think he made a bad decision. At the most, he should have offered to replay that game. Picking up the cueball when he was not sure if he fouled may seem gentlemanly, but it is not supported by the rules and a lot of people, including me, told him that after the set. (Mind you, he was in a state of total depression, so we had to be gentle.) I can tell you that to this day, Nicky still refers to the Fujiwara match as the most crushing defeat he's ever had.

Anyway, fast forward 13 months to the Jimmy Wetch match. The score is 10-9 or something, and Jimmy claims Nicky fouled on a very fast hit. Again, I have no idea if it was good or not, but I think that after the lesson he learned in Chesapeake, he's not calling any fouls on himself unless he is sure he fouled.

Anyway, thanks for the post. I am glad you mentioned the other stuff because I did not know about it.

Thanks,
Steve

CrispyFish
10-14-2003, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the explanation, Steve. The story from the Open certainly does explain Nicky's reluctance to give up a questionable call. Also, it really was questionable, if you didn't know what to look for (it was a jump shot and it all happened very quickly). The main evidence was the direction the 8-ball took after contact (into the short rail, not the long rail as you'd expect from a clean hit). But when Scott Smith asked me about it, I told him truthfully that the audience was split, and he gave it to Nicky. I think that was the right call was made: when in doubt, the call should be in favor of the shooter. Too bad it didn't work out that way at the Open.

Nicky really is an impressive player. If he keeps it up, I'm sure he'll be a truly great player some day. If he can bring his attitude up to match his game, he will not only be feared in pool halls everywhere, but also greatly respected. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nostroke
10-14-2003, 04:28 PM
I think you meant Scott Smith. I don't know Scott Lee - I suppose he could have been there too?

Rich R.
10-14-2003, 05:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> It is nice to think of pool's future in a relatively positive light. We have a good crop of younger players who are beginning to make waves, and are doing so with a nice touch of class. Max Eberle, Neils Feijen, Mike Davis, and Nick Schulman are all representing the game in a manner that should make us all proud. <hr /></blockquote>
You forgot one name. Steve Lipsky. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve Lipsky
10-14-2003, 06:11 PM
Aw, shucks, Rich... /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

- Steve

PooPooPlatter
10-15-2003, 12:00 AM
I think I have some competition in my Steve Lipsky fantasies.
But I know when i'm fighting a lost cause.
I'll be a gentleman,and let you two have your way with each other.
May the balls be with you.

Rich R.
10-15-2003, 04:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PooPooPlatter:</font><hr> I think I have some competition in my Steve Lipsky fantasies. <hr /></blockquote>
It's no fantasy. The man can play and I respect that.

CrispyFish
10-15-2003, 06:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I think you meant Scott Smith. I don't know Scott Lee - I suppose he could have been there too? <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, you are absolutely right. Duly noted and corrected!

Lester
10-15-2003, 08:29 AM
You have to beware of any player that stands on the "wrong" side of the stick when he plays, Rich. They don't think right. lol /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif ***Lester***

Jimmy B
10-15-2003, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> The tournament is over, and first I want to congratulate Johnny Archer for his win. For those who have not seen him play live, you should really make plans to do so. He has such a strong table presence, such a commanding game. He is a beautiful player to watch.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Are you serious? I agree Johnny is a great player, but beautiful to watch?? he's painful to watch IMO, he's slow and methodical and he resets 2-3 times each shot, he's up and down and backs away from the shot, lines it up and then re-lines it up. I have the utmost respect for him and all his accomplishments, but to say he's fun to watch is a bit of a stretch. Thanx for the update glad it went well, but they didn't really advertise it as well as they should have, again IMO. JB

Steve Lipsky
10-15-2003, 12:10 PM
Jimmy, the matches I saw him play were quite smooth. He shot rather quickly, as I recall.

When the table had a problem, he slowed down, but most good players do. When the balls were all open, he was getting out pretty quickly.

- Steve

CrispyFish
10-15-2003, 12:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr>Are you serious? I agree Johnny is a great player, but beautiful to watch?? he's painful to watch IMO, he's slow and methodical and he resets 2-3 times each shot, he's up and down and backs away from the shot, lines it up and then re-lines it up. I have the utmost respect for him and all his accomplishments, but to say he's fun to watch is a bit of a stretch. Thanx for the update glad it went well, but they didn't really advertise it as well as they should have, again IMO. JB <hr /></blockquote>
I was in the first row for the Archer-Davis match on Friday night. After seeing gripes about Archer's playing pace on CCB, I expected a long match. As it turned out, Archer played about as quickly as any other player there, with the exception of Luc Salvas, of course! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif I agree with Steve that he was fun to watch, and quite friendly to his fans and opponents alike. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-CF

Jimmy B
10-15-2003, 12:44 PM
I'm glad to hear it and shocked all at once. I'm a fan of JA but I've been front row for a large money match and also have watched him in many other pro events and he's always been deliberate in his actions. I have no problem with it if that's what it takes for him to win, but I just don't find it fun to watch. I'm glad to hear about this change. JB

Rich R.
10-16-2003, 04:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr>I was in the first row for the Archer-Davis match on Friday night. After seeing gripes about Archer's playing pace on CCB, I expected a long match. As it turned out, Archer played about as quickly as any other player there, with the exception of Luc Salvas, of course! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif I agree with Steve that he was fun to watch, and quite friendly to his fans and opponents alike. <hr /></blockquote>
OK, who replaced the real Johnny Archer with a clone? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Seriously, I have seen both of these Johnny Archer's play.
The one Jimmy B saw is, indeed, very painful to watch. At the 2002 Capital City Classic, Johnny was playing Charlie Williams and I think I had to leave three times to cut my lawn, during the match. It was beyond belief.
At the U.S. Open, he was slow, but not as bad as I have seen him.
More recently, at the 7-Ball Challenge, he shot quickly, however, they use a shot clock. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Shooting faster, obviously didn't hurt him, because he won.

Will the real Johnny Archer, please stand up.

Qtec
10-16-2003, 08:20 AM
Players who have been at the top can suffer a loss of confidence after they have been toppled. Instead of winning tournaments they have difficulty adjusting to the fact that they are no longer the best and the first round suddenly appears as a huge obstacle.

Instead of coming to the table and seeing the run out, they only see problems.
Sometimes even the easiest run out reduces such a player to a snails pace. He starts concentrating on not making a mistake, rather than doing it right.

J.Archer is probably just a good a player as 10 years ago, but HE doesnt believe it.

Playing faster gave him less time to think negativly and as a consequence he played better. Its all about attitude.

Qtec

robertlipson
10-18-2003, 10:39 PM
Steve,

Thanks for the kind words regarding the Fury World Summit of Pool and congratulations on your win over Nick Varner and your in-the-money showing.

FYI the event in Dubai was originally scheduled for earlier in the year; however, it was postponed due to the War in the Iraq. It is worth noting that, to my knowledge, no Americans played in Dubai. Also Luc Salvas and Neils Feijen were slated to play in Dubai but decided to play in the World Summit instead.

The concept behind the World Summit is to establish it as an annual signature event for the UPA. Building on the success of this year's tournament the goal is to hold it in Grand Central Station next year. I'll keep everyone posted.

Robert Lipson
Tournament Organizer

ManlyShot
10-19-2003, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote robertlipson:</font><hr>FYI the event in Dubai was originally scheduled for earlier in the year; however, it was postponed due to the War in the Iraq. It is worth noting that, to my knowledge, no Americans played in Dubai.<hr /></blockquote>

Congratulations on a spectacular event.

Earl Strickland is an American and played in Fujairah, the "Dubai" tournament. Would he have been eligible to play in the Fury World Summit?

Your first post asks forum readers to inform pool players and spectators about this upcoming tournament. Corey Deuel, Troy Frank, Keith McCready, and a few other pool players were noticeably absent from the Fury World Summit. In fact, the Fury World Summit seemed to have restrictions on who was eligible to participate, non-publicized restrictions. It was not open to all.

ManlyShot

robertlipson
10-19-2003, 11:41 PM
If Earl played in Dubai then I stand corrected.

The World Summit is a UPA event open to all members. Earl, Corey, Troy and the others are welcome - and encouraged - to join the UPA and participate in the tournaments.

Robert Lipson

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2003, 06:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote robertlipson:</font><hr>
The World Summit is a UPA event open to all members. Earl, Corey, Troy and the others are welcome - and encouraged - to join the UPA and participate in the tournaments. <hr /></blockquote>

Earl? Really? I thought he was banished from the kingdom.

ManlyShot
10-20-2003, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote robertlipson:</font><hr> If Earl played in Dubai then I stand corrected. The World Summit is a UPA event open to all members. Earl, Corey, Troy and the others are welcome - and encouraged - to join the UPA and participate in the tournaments.<hr /></blockquote>

You are to be commended for all your hard work in presenting the Fury World Summit, and I look forward to hearing more about the Grand Central Station tournament. Sounds like a spectacular event for spectators to see world-class players in one arena.

It would be helpful if the UPA advertise that ONLY UPA MEMBERS MAY PLAY, and all are welcome to join the UPA by paying 100 bucks and signing the UPA contract on site.

Were there any non-UPA members competing in the Fury World Summit tournament? The UPA used to provide local pool players admission to the UPA Tour by paying a one-time $25 fee, but I understand that if a pool player falls into the UPA-designated "touring pro" category, this prohibits certain pool players the UPA classifies as "touring pros," such as Earl, Corey, Keith, and Troy, from competing in UPA events, unless, of course, they join the UPA.

Again, great tournament, and looks like Johnny Archer booked two back-to-back winners on the UPA Tour. Looking forward to hearing more about the Grand Central Station tournament.

ManlyShot

Rich R.
10-20-2003, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote robertlipson:</font><hr> If Earl played in Dubai then I stand corrected.

The World Summit is a UPA event open to all members. Earl, Corey, Troy and the others are welcome - and encouraged - to join the UPA and participate in the tournaments.

Robert Lipson <hr /></blockquote>
I have been told, by a very good source, that Jose Parica and others have not signed a UPA contract, but are allowed to play in UPA tournaments.

Can you verify this?

Why are these players allowed to play, with no contract, when others are not?

Why would a player sign a contract, that binds them to attend ALL UPA events?

ManlyShot
10-20-2003, 08:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>Why are these players allowed to play, with no contract, when others are not? Why would a player sign a contract, that binds them to attend ALL UPA events?<hr /></blockquote>

Player agrees that in the event of a breach...the UPA may obtain from any court having jurisdiction, such equitable relief as may be appropriate, including an injunction...in addition to any other remedies which may be available. Player understands that such relief includes, but is not limited to, the obtaining of an injunction prohibiting Player from participating in any billiards event, which is in conflict with...the UPA.

Player agrees to compete only in those events that are sanctioned or recognized by the UPA unless the UPA grants a waiver...A waiver will only be granted by showing of good cause, and approval by the Board of Directors of the UPA.

Player agrees that all media rights and revenues there from belong to, and are the sole property of the UPA. Player waives any right to inspect or approve such media product, programming and production regardless of use.

The agreement (contract) shall be governed, and construed in accordance with the laws of the state of Florida.

Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this agreement...shall be settled in Orlando, Florida...and judgment upon the award may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.

ManlyShot

Alfie
10-20-2003, 08:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>Earl? Really? I thought he was banished from the kingdom. <hr /></blockquote>I think he is in if he signs a paper that says he will behave himself.

Alfie
10-20-2003, 08:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ManlyShot:</font><hr>Enforcement: As such, in consideration thereof, Player agrees that in the event of a breach...the UPA may obtain from any court having jurisdiction, such equitable relief as may be appropriate, including an injunction...in addition to any other remedies which may be available. Player understands that such relief includes, but is not limited to, the obtaining of an injunction prohibiting Player from participating in any billiards event, which is in conflict with...the UPA.

Sanctioned Competition: Player agrees to compete only in those events that are sanctioned or recognized by the UPA unless the UPA grants a waiver...A waiver will only be granted by showing of good cause, and approval by the Board of Directors of the UPA.

Media and Marketing Rights: Player agrees that all media rights and revenues there from belong to, and are the sole property of the UPA. Player waives any right to inspect or approve such media product, programming and production regardless of use.

Construction: This Agreement shall be governed, and construed in accordance with the laws of the state of Florida.

Arbitration: Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this Agreement...shall be settled in Orlando, Florida...and judgment upon the award may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.

ManlyShot
<hr /></blockquote>How often are these contracts to be renewed?

ManlyShot
10-20-2003, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr>How often are these contracts to be renewed? <hr /></blockquote>

Once a year, but some members have continued to compete in UPA events, enjoying a seed and a bye, with an unsigned contract and/or non-renewal. Pool players who are designated as "touring pros" by the UPA -- a recent restriction, I might add -- such as Corey, Keith, Troy, Earl, and others are banned from UPA events unless they sign the UPA contract.

ManlyShot

ManlyShot
10-20-2003, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>J.Archer is probably just a good a player as 10 years ago, but HE doesnt believe it.<hr /></blockquote>

He's made a believer out of me, two back-to-back wins. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ManlyShot

Rich R.
10-20-2003, 11:56 AM
This is a nice list of reasons for a player to NOT sign the contract. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

CrispyFish
10-20-2003, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> This is a nice list of reasons for a player to NOT sign the contract. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
What are the benefits of the UPA? Surely the players must see SOMETHING in it, or they wouldn't be joining... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

-CF

Rich R.
10-20-2003, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr> What are the benefits of the UPA? Surely the players must see SOMETHING in it, or they wouldn't be joining... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Beats me. I haven't figured that out yet. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sure the UPA says there are some benefits. Whether those benefits are real or perceived, has yet to be seen.

From what I understand, a number of players have not signed and some, who signed, are very dissatisfied.

jjinfla
10-20-2003, 02:18 PM
Manlyshot,

Does it specifically state that the contract is valid for only one year? That it is null and void at the end of one year? Or that it is valid only while a player remains a member? And that if the player does not renew his dues he is released from the contract?

Players really have to read and understand the terms of the contract and see how it can be broken.

Players may find themselves still technically, and legally, under contract but in violation of it for late dues, unless the UPA released them from their contract.

But that would really be underhanded, and sneaky and no professional, respectable lawyer would ever be part of writing a contract like that. Would they?

Jake

ManlyShot
10-20-2003, 02:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>Players really have to read and understand the terms of the contract and see how it can be broken.

Players may find themselves still technically, and legally, under contract but in violation of it for late dues, unless the UPA released them from their contract.

But that would really be underhanded, and sneaky and no professional, respectable lawyer would ever be part of writing a contract like that. Would they?<hr /></blockquote>

Term of is 1-year from the date of execution and will automatically renew annually pursuant to...unless pool player notifies UPA in writing at least 30 days in advance of his/her /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif intention not to renew said contract.

ManlyShot

ted harris
10-21-2003, 11:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote robertlipson:</font><hr> It is worth noting that, to my knowledge, no Americans played in Dubai.

Robert Lipson
Tournament Organizer <hr /></blockquote>
Where is Earl Strickland from?