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Wally_in_Cincy
04-13-2002, 08:55 AM
I play APA 8-ball twice a week. The pros and cons have been hashed and rehashed here ad nauseum. I think the good outweighs the bad and I enjoy it for what it is. Sometimes, however, you see things that make you scratch your head.

Scenario #1:

Both players are down to the 8-ball and are playing safe back and forth. Their player fouls with a double hit on the CB. Our captain (he was not the coach) says "hey, that's a foul". Our player takes BIH and makes the 8-ball. Their player then says "Only the opponent or the coach can call a foul so you guys broke the rule and I win the game". Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous? To avoid a long, drawn-out argument we said "sure, whatever". Our player was up 4-1 already and he ended up winning so it worked out OK.

Scenario #2:

In APA 8-ball you call the pocket for the 8-ball by placing a "pocket marker" (coaster) on the rail next to the pocket. Typically it is referred to as a "patch". The patch usually remains somewhere on the rail during the entire night so it is easily accessible. Well my opponent decided it was "distracting" so he kept removing it. Every time I shot the 8 I had to ask the fool where the patch was and it was always in a different place. The third game I ran down to the 8-ball, patched the corner pocket, missed my shot, and the 8 remained near that corner. My opponent then failed to run out. I was down on my 8-ball shot when I suddenly realized that the patch was no longer there. Mr. "18 Beers" had removed it again. I have never seen anyone do such a nonsensical thing. I beat him 4-0.

Bar league horror stories are welcome. I just had to VENT!

stickman
04-13-2002, 09:38 AM
Wally, I played for 5 years and depending on the team chemistry, and the locations, it could be fun. I had one session that was really fun. The team I was on was all about fun, and we won the local and went to the regionals. (Not any farther) Anyway the common practice around here is to set the coaster atop the table light. It keeps it off the table and is easy to find. My very first league game, I remember very well. Being a newbie, I wasn't real familiar with the rules, and marking the pocket was foreign to me. I beat my opponent and sank the 8 ball. One of the team members on the other team, said to me, "You forgot to mark your pocket." He didn't say anything about it being a foul, and wasn't the coach or captain. I knew him well. I thanked him for telling me, thinking it was just a friendly warning. No one else said anything, and my opponent racked the balls and the match proceeded. I thought the match was continuing when they claimed victory. They explained that I had lost the game that I had forgotten to mark my pocket. I went home feeling bad about it and as I thought about it, it made me mad. I called the LO and asked him why they allowed me to break the next rack, if I had lost. The other team was still there, and he told me to come back up and we would play another game. I was so focused, that I beat her easily. Last year, she was my team captain. LOL Anyway it still upsets me when people want to win so bad, they don't care how they do it.

jjinfla
04-13-2002, 02:13 PM
Is it nonsense? Or is it just learning to play by following the rules? If a person is too lazy, or too, stupid to learn the rules, then why be upset when someone else calls you on them? If you don't like the rules, then go home and don't play. Otherwise, spend the time to learn the rules. I think it is all this wacky philosophy that the liberals are pushing in our schools now where no one has to take responsibility for their own actions. Jake

stickman
04-13-2002, 02:49 PM
Ouch! Did I hurt your feelings? I'm not knocking the APA, just saying that I didn't think the team should have tried to beat me that way. Apparently, they didn't know the rules all that well either, or they wouldn't have racked the next rack for me. Oh and by the way, I have given new players a break for not knowing the rules. Some folks don't care how they win, but I do. I think their call was an afterthought when it became apparent I was going to win.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-13-2002, 02:50 PM
Well, Jake... that was to the point... I understand and agree with your viewpoint. And, I learned a long time ago that when two similar skilled players compete, the one that knows the rules better, has an advantage.

I would like to see a pre-session clinic on rules for the APA and any league organizations, for newbies and exisiting players. Wouldn't this at least reduce the number of arguments?

phil in sofla
04-13-2002, 08:04 PM
As to #1, that is how our league (not APA, but a semi-modified BCA rule league), rules on who calls fouls and what happens if someone else other than those allowed by the rules should call it-- if the foul is called by anyone other than the player, or his pre-designated coach, then the foul is ruled null and void. Touching the cue ball to take ball in hand in that situation would itself be a foul, awarding b-i-h back to the person who fouled originally.

While I'm not sure for the reason for this, I have indeed heard of such a thing, and deal with such a rule every week in league. Just as a matter of curiousity, can anyone explain why this is something leagues do? Seems weird, unless they just want to keep all but the players and and designated seconds from getting involved with their opinions about what is and isn't a foul?

Cuemage
04-13-2002, 09:00 PM
Maybe I'm too honest, but I've even told opposing players to mark the pocket b4 shooting...I would hate winning (or loosing) that way...

Tha Cuemage

Tom_In_Cincy
04-13-2002, 10:16 PM
Being polite, is always acceptable, EVEN in a league.

Alfie
04-14-2002, 02:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: phil in sofla:</font><hr> Just as a matter of curiousity, can anyone explain why this is something leagues do? Seems weird, unless they just want to keep all but the players and and designated seconds from getting involved with their opinions about what is and isn't a foul? <hr></blockquote>

They don't want games refereed by two opposing mobs.

Rod
04-14-2002, 03:34 AM
I've never played in an APA league, but I'd probably forget to use a marker. IMO there are two players at the table and any outside interference or opinions is not allowed.
This happens to be a game between (2) players, no coaching.
Can you imagine a confrence with a coach at the US open or involving others? We do need to think for our selves sometimes. I don't want to make leagues the big time, but we do have to make our decisions and live with them. Life will not end over a bad choice. Accept it and move on! I believe its part of the learning process. In your case they were looking for a cheap win it appears. I'm wondering how people deal with calling a technical foul when they knew that was the intention of the shooter? Little boys will always try to find a way to win. Men will accept their loss under any circumstances, if it's legal.

04-14-2002, 07:09 AM
I left my pocket marker on the side pocket after making the eight and on the next break I made the eight in the same pocket..... You guessed it, the other team started making noise about that was loss of game. I have studied the rule book inside out. The rules do not trouble me. What does is the guy who plays me as a five (which I am) then goes and plays money games the rest of the night with the best money players in the house. I think we all call that sand bagging.

Jerry

jjinfla
04-14-2002, 08:20 AM
Hey Stickman, my bad. I wasn't referring to you personally. I should have used the word "one" instead of "you" in my response. I just get fed up hearing so many players complain that they would have won that game except that he wanted me to play by the rules. Or something to that effect. The very first rule everyone learns when they play APA is that one has to mark the pocket. I have yet to find anyone who likes that rule. But, in my opinion, if a player forgets to mark the pocket, then the real culprit is the coach. As for calling a person on the foul, or advising him of a possible foul I guess it all depends on the situation. I once was watching Dave Grossman playing a match in a tournament and his opponent touched the cue ball and didn't call a foul on himself and took the shot. Dave looked up and at the onlookers and never called the foul. But in this case Dave's opponent was an older gentleman and really had no chance of winning the match, which of course he didn't. Now, had that been one of the top players who committed the foul, I am sure that Dave would have been out of his chair immediately saying foul. My point being that it is really easy to be magnanimous (is that a word?) about not calling fouls if one is going to win anyway, or, if winning isn't really that important to a person. Jake~~~thinks that zero tolerance to rules borders on the ridiculous. As is evident by some of the stupid events that occur in our schools over little toy guns.

Q-guy
04-14-2002, 09:28 AM
Rules are not usually arbitrary, they are created for a reason. They prove their value, or lack of, over time. That is why changes are often needed. Regardless of whether one may agree with them, rules must be adhered to. An opponent can't be faulted for using a rule to their advantage if they can. You see it at the highest level of society, such as a murder going free because evidence was obtained incorrectly. We are a people of rules.

stickman
04-14-2002, 09:33 AM
jjinfla, Thanks, Yeah we didn't have much of a coach although I like him very much as a person. He was usually at the other end of the pool hall playing for money while the matches were going on. I had never seen a copy of the rules and they were briefly explained to me before the match. I wouldn't have been upset, if someone had told me that I lost the game when it happened. I would have racked the next rack and beared down from there. When my opponent racked for me, I assumed that I'd won. I was a new 4 playing a very good 3. I won the first game, (or so I thought), I won the second game, I scratched on the eight in the third game. Then they said the match was over. I was like "Huh?" They told me that I had lost the first game for not marking my pocket. I was sort of dejected and confused. I didn't know the rules, but when I was at home thinking about it, I knew that if I had lost the game, I should have been racking. The LO was good about taking care of the matter, and also gave me a copy of the rules. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
04-14-2002, 10:38 AM
Q-Guy,
I still don't understand why people think poorly of players using the rules? What is it with those people anyway?

Oh well, we all have our little challenges in life.. this is one of mine..

It is very easy to call a foul on your self if you know it is obvious, but what if it wasn't.. do you still say "I guess I fouled? Here's ball in hand" Or, if someone calls a foul on you and you don't know the rules, are you just going to say "OK" and give the opponent ball in hand?

Does everyone know that any quesionable foul during a game the ruling always goes to the shooter. That's why either player can request a 3rd party to referee a shot. To eliminate an argument.

Too many ways to play this game correctly using the rules.. to not know the rules just makes you less of a player.

04-14-2002, 10:55 AM
Tom...When I was an APA LO up in MT and ID 10 yrs ago, I would have a captains meeting before every session, both to go over the rules (ALL the rules), and to demonstrate on the table exactly what constituted safety and/or defensive shots. I made it my business to make sure all team captains knew what MY rules were too (no foul language, no fighting, no harassment or sharking, etc). Every team receives a rulebook, and any player can purchase their own for a couple of bucks. Smart players had their own copies!
I also encouraged the captains to bring anyone with them to those meetings that was interested. Usually I had 50+ people "learning the ropes"! It was my personal policy, as an LO, to encourage players to give new players a 'break' on the rules, but to inform them politely about reading the rulebook to makes themselves aware. At the local level, league play should always be about having fun...but as you reach regional and national tournament level play, you had better KNOW the rules in their entirety! In Las Vegas, most teams know the rules inside out! IMO, Stickman was treated unfairly as a new player, on his first night!

Scott Lee

stickman
04-14-2002, 11:02 AM
Interesting concept, Tom. I have reminded an opponent to mark thier pocket and warned them to not pick up the ball, etc. I think the rules run contrary to some peoples ingrained moral stardards. As you say, if a foul isn't called, it's not a foul. Taking that concept further, would have you believe that if you robbed a bank and didn't get caught, you didn't break the law. I'm not argueing for or against the rules, just commenting on why I think they are difficult for some.

Jay M
04-14-2002, 11:49 AM
The ugliest argument I have seen went something like this:

A VERY strong 7 is shooting the case game. On the 8 ball, he marks the pocket with one of those plastic chalk holder cube thingies. The other team lets him shoot and then calls a foul on him for marking the pocket with chalk. When they call it, he walks around the table and picks up the holder and displays it to the other team showing that it is empty, there is no chalk in it. It's just a piece of plastic shaped like a cube...

This argument went on from 10:00 until the place closed at 2AM. The league operator made the call that the shot was legal as there was no chalk in the container. The other team argued with the LO and he put his foot down and said it was legal. The other team got off the phone and then proceeded to argue about it with the player for HOURS. They finally walked out forfeiting their matches.

After I witnessed that incident (I wasn't on either team) I decided that I would NEVER play league pool as it was ridiculous the lengths that the players will go to to win.

Second worst was a call (involving the same 7) he safed his opponent and got BIH. He set the CB on the table and got down to shoot. He had set the cue a bit too close to the object ball and placed the center of his shaft on the ball and drew it backwards about 2 inches. The other team called a foul and proceeded to win the game and set. Petty BS has no place in the game of pool.

Jay M

Honor and Integrity are the only two things which you are born with and which can't be taken from you by another.

Rod
04-14-2002, 12:28 PM
I agree Q-guy but the way it's done bugs me a little. From what I understand coaching and calling a foul can be done by either team captain. The players might not call a foul, but the captain does. We now have 4 people involved in a game. My point was the game should be between two players. The captains are there for scoring and any other issues that come up. Since the rules read that captains can give advice or call fouls then it's ok and legal, but I don't agree with that rule. I haven't played league in a long time, but I hope that's not the case in most leagues.

04-14-2002, 12:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> . He had set the cue a bit too close to the object ball and placed the center of his shaft on the ball and drew it backwards about 2 inches. The other team called a foul and proceeded to win the game and set. <hr></blockquote>

jay,

if that was within the past few years and was bca rules then he was ok. not a foul.

3.40 "cue ball in hand foul"

"during cue ball in hand placement, the player may use his hand or any part of his cue (including the tip) to position the cue ball. when placing the cue ball in position, any forward stroke motion of the cue stick contacting the cue ball will be considered a foul if not a legal shot."

(that's the exact language from the latest book.) i talked to richard rhorer (super senior bca international referee doo-dah) and he hangs his hat on the word "stroke" in interpreting that one. if you're just diddling the ball around then that's not a "stroke". also, in the case you mentioned it not only was not the tip it was backwards.

generally, this is one of those where it's probably smart to just not use the cue at all since there are millions of players out there who love to call (miss-call) that rule.


dan...you might also note that this, like many bca rules, does not seem to apply to female players since it says "his hand".(???!?)

Tom_In_Cincy
04-14-2002, 12:44 PM
Jay,

Honor and Integrity in BAR?

Too many egos to deal with.. and not worth the effort anyway. We are talking about Leagues played in a BAR. Where people go to have a few drinks and relax.. not much more than simple entertainment..

I would think that if you want to get serious.. you should go to a pool hall.. and play in tournaments. And, you had better know the rules there.. eveyone else will.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-14-2002, 12:49 PM
Thanks you for being one that has the foresight to understand that the more informed players become the better ambassadors of the game. There are more LO's like you out there, I am sure.. but I am also sure there needs to be more and more..

04-14-2002, 01:07 PM
Brother Jerry, it might not be sandbagging. I know I tend to play better for $$ than I do in an APA (or tournament) match and I play other games MUCH better than I play 8 ball and APA 9 ball. I played 8 ball as a 5/4 and 9 ball as a 6/5, but on the 8 ball team our best player wouldn't play me 1 pocket or banks unless we played even.

Q-guy
04-14-2002, 01:23 PM
I think we all do what we think is right. I would like to think I am an honest player, not to say I am a sucker. Years ago I was playing in a small tournament in Melbourne Fla. at the Golden cue. I was playing Miz, who often plays in small tournaments. I lined up on the wrong ball and he stopped me and pointed out what I was doing. He didn't have to do that and maybe at another time or in a bigger tournament he would not have. In another tournament I was playing guy that had a seizure during the match. I think his name was Knox from Tallahassee Florida. He was going to forfeit. I asked him if we take a break would he be able to play? He said yes, and he just needed his medication. When we continued and he ended up beating me. I still would not have done it differently. To show you how we gain or lose respect for people. I put on a tournament and Mike Sigel showed up late for his match and had been forfeited. He said I should tell the player they had to play. I told him I would ask but that was it. He was to play Richie Ambrose, and needless to say Riche was not about to play if he did not have to. Here is what Sigel says to me. He told me if I did not make Riche play he would forfeit his second match and people who came to see him play would want their money back. I told him if he wants to forfeit his second match that is his choice. I made an announcement that Mr. Sigel was refusing to play his match and anyone who wants a refund come to the desk. Nobody left except Sigel and we had a nice tournament with Larry Liscotti winning the tournament. Sigel showed me what a low class guy he is. I think the point is, we all deal with situations differently and it defines who we are and how other perceive us.

Alfie
04-14-2002, 06:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> I agree Q-guy but the way it's done bugs me a little. From what I understand coaching and calling a foul can be done by either team captain. The players might not call a foul, but the captain does. We now have 4 people involved in a game. My point was the game should be between two players. The captains are there for scoring and any other issues that come up. Since the rules read that captains can give advice or call fouls then it's ok and legal, but I don't agree with that rule. I haven't played league in a long time, but I hope that's not the case in most leagues. <hr></blockquote>
I understand where you're coming from but I also understand where APA is coming from.

The APA likes to say they are bigger than all other leagues combined (world citizens outside the U.S. please excuse our self-centeredness)and I'm sure some other leagues use coaching too, so most league players if not most leagues are using coaching.

The APA is rife with pool newbies. This coaching, i.e., both foul calling and strategy coaching time outs does a few things that are good for the league, and to the APA that is all that counts (as it should be). In lieu of a referee (the APA can't just sh*t impartial, qualified referees) it uses this coaching scheme to put two of the more knowledgeable players (one from each team, of course) as match "overseers" in an attempt to quickly and fairly resolve any problems which might arise. It teaches newbies rules. It keeps newbies from feeling at sea and getting discouraged. It teaches newbies some strategy, instilling confidence and resulting in a more rapid skill level rise, resulting in a quicker team mitosis. It reinforces the idea of "team" by saying "We are right here with you, playing the game along side of you" rather than "You're up. You need 4, he needs 2. Let us know when you are finished." It gives you the feeling that the APA experience is something special; why, if you are feeling confused you can call a time out right in the middle of a game and scoot over to the coach on the sidelines just like a quarterback does in the NFL.

Not defending, just offering an explanation.

Does anybody have experience with the BCA national tournament? Are there any time outs to discuss strategy with a coach? Can someone besides the shooter call a foul?

jjinfla
04-14-2002, 07:00 PM
Dan, I believe that is rule 3.39. At least it is as listed in the Appendix of Ewa's book Pool &amp; Billiards, the complete idiot's guide. that alone is worth the price of her book. Ha Ha. And if anyone happens to look up that rule check out rule 3.37. Object ball frozen to cushion or cue ball. Remember the discussion that went on about that? And here it is all explained in this rule. Jake

Rod
04-14-2002, 07:05 PM
Well ok and thanks for the explanation Alfie. I'm not sure I buy that is does all that though. From the sound of people that have played in this league they have some issues. I shouldn't comment because I don't know.

I played in the BCA Nationals a few times. There is no coaching, and only the shooters can call a foul. Scotch doubles get one time out per game to discuss strategy. Now it is possible some of this has changed. I am not current on their rules.

jjinfla
04-14-2002, 07:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> I agree Q-guy but the way it's done bugs me a little. From what I understand coaching and calling a foul can be done by either team captain. The players might not call a foul, but the captain does. We now have 4 people involved in a game. My point was the game should be between two players. The captains are there for scoring and any other issues that come up. Since the rules read that captains can give advice or call fouls then it's ok and legal, but I don't agree with that rule. I haven't played league in a long time, but I hope that's not the case in most leagues. <hr></blockquote>

The coach is usually the captain but a player can also designate someone other than the captain as the coach. And if both players do this then you have 6 players involved. But only the coach can coach the player. And I seem to remember that any team player can remind the player to mark the pocket without that being a foul. Gave my rule book away when I dropped out of the APA so I can't quote the rule. But it is team play, so the more the merrier. It's when you are making soup that you don't want too many cooks. Jake

Rod
04-14-2002, 07:43 PM
WOW Jake, they just have a merry old time don't they!
Ditto on the soup, chile, or my world famous lemon pie.
( well it's a legend in my mind anyway!)

04-14-2002, 08:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> Dan, I believe that is rule 3.39. At least it is as listed in the Appendix of Ewa's book Pool &amp; Billiards, the complete idiot's guide. that alone is worth the price of her book. Ha Ha. Jake <hr></blockquote>

i know. they keep changing the numbers. it's 3.40 in the latest.

dan

jjinfla
04-14-2002, 08:10 PM
Dan, Where did you buy the BCA rule book? And how much does it cost? I would have thought that they would offer one for sale on their website. Or at least give a link to where one can buy it. Jake

04-14-2002, 08:33 PM
years ago, i decided to join the bca and every year when i send in my 35$ (i think that's what it is) they send me the latest book and some other junk. i could do the bca dues for 10$ in either of my leagues but then they just give you the condensed version which leaves out a whole ton of important rules.

i'm kinda suprised they don't sell the book all by itself.

dan

Alfie
04-14-2002, 08:36 PM
"I'm not sure I buy that it does all that though. From the sound of people that have played in this league they have some issues."

Oh, I have many issues with APA, and with most other leagues for that matter.

"I played in the BCA Nationals a few times. There is no coaching, and only the shooters can call a foul."

i.e., the team championships?

Rod
04-14-2002, 08:45 PM
Yes the team championships.

Rod
04-14-2002, 08:49 PM
Dan they did sell the books. I believe I bought them from The Billiards Library in CA. Any site with books and tapes should sell them.

Alfie
04-14-2002, 09:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr> years ago, i decided to join the bca and every year when i send in my 35$ (i think that's what it is) they send me the latest book and some other junk. i could do the bca dues for 10$ in either of my leagues but then they just give you the condensed version which leaves out a whole ton of important rules.

i'm kinda suprised they don't sell the book all by itself.
<hr></blockquote>
Here is part of an e-mail conversation I had a few days ago with Betty Harris, BCA League and Program Coordinator:

Me- Suppose I want to play in a BCA sanctioned league.
Must I pay a league sanctioning fee of $10/year?
Must I also pay a sanctioned player fee of $25/year?

Does every league player receive a BCA rule book?

Betty- The $25.00 sanctioned player membership is designed for players that do not play in a league and still want to compete in a singles tournament. They are not qualified to play in any team events (or scotch doubles). If they wish to join a league, they must also pay the league membership dues of $10.00.

Every sanctioned league member gets a player handbook. It is a small condensed version of the rule book. Sanctioned player members get a full size rule book as part of their benefit package.

If you are a league player...do not become a player member too. You would be better off to just buy a full size rule book. The rule book would cost you $7 plus shipping.

Alfie
04-14-2002, 10:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> Quote Rod "Since the rules read that captains can give advice or call fouls then it's ok and legal, but I don't agree with that rule."

The coach is usually the captain but a player can also designate someone other than the captain as the coach. And if both players do this then you have 6 players involved. But only the coach can coach the player. But it is team play, so the more the merrier. It's when you are making soup that you don't want too many cooks. Jake <hr></blockquote>

http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

page 5, rule 9, bottom of the page

04-15-2002, 08:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Alfie:</font><hr> I understand where you're coming from but I also understand where APA is coming from.

The APA likes to say they are bigger than all other leagues combined (world citizens outside the U.S. please excuse our self-centeredness)and I'm sure some other leagues use coaching too, so most league players if not most leagues are using coaching.

The APA is rife with pool newbies. This coaching, i.e., both foul calling and strategy coaching time outs does a few things that are good for the league, and to the APA that is all that counts (as it should be). In lieu of a referee (the APA can't just sh*t impartial, qualified referees) it uses this coaching scheme to put two of the more knowledgeable players (one from each team, of course) as match "overseers" in an attempt to quickly and fairly resolve any problems which might arise. It teaches newbies rules. It keeps newbies from feeling at sea and getting discouraged. It teaches newbies some strategy, instilling confidence and resulting in a more rapid skill level rise, resulting in a quicker team mitosis. It reinforces the idea of "team" by saying "We are right here with you, playing the game along side of you" rather than "You're up. You need 4, he needs 2. Let us know when you are finished." It gives you the feeling that the APA experience is something special; why, if you are feeling confused you can call a time out right in the middle of a game and scoot over to the coach on the sidelines just like a quarterback does in the NFL.

Not defending, just offering an explanation.
<hr></blockquote>


That's a very good explanation of the APA coaching philosophy.

04-15-2002, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> Is it nonsense? Or is it just learning to play by following the rules? If a person is too lazy, or too, stupid to learn the rules, then why be upset when someone else calls you on them? If you don't like the rules, then go home and don't play. Otherwise, spend the time to learn the rules. I think it is all this wacky philosophy that the liberals are pushing in our schools now where no one has to take responsibility for their own actions. Jake <hr></blockquote>

In another post you stated that zero tolerance for rule violations is not good. Above you contradict yourself.

Wally-not stupid or lazy, and definitely not liberal.

04-15-2002, 08:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>

I play APA 8-ball twice a week. The pros and cons have been hashed and rehashed here ad nauseum. I think the good outweighs the bad and I enjoy it for what it is. Sometimes, however, you see things that make you scratch your head.

Scenario #1:

Both players are down to the 8-ball and are playing safe back and forth. Their player fouls with a double hit on the CB. Our captain (he was not the coach) says "hey, that's a foul". Our player takes BIH and makes the 8-ball. Their player then says "Only the opponent or the coach can call a foul so you guys broke the rule and I win the game". Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous? To avoid a long, drawn-out argument we said "sure, whatever". Our player was up 4-1 already and he ended up winning so it worked out OK.

<hr></blockquote>


Well.... I guess I don't write well enough to get my point across.

When the foul was called their player agreed it was a foul and handed the CB to our player. Only after the game was over did he protest.

The rule states that anyone can "SUGGEST" that a foul was committed (e.g. "Hey Dave. Is that a foul?"), but only the player or coach can "CALL" a foul (e.g. "Hey Dave. that's a foul?") In 3+ years I had never seen the rule invoked by anyone.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>


Scenario #2:

In APA 8-ball you call the pocket for the 8-ball by placing a "pocket marker" (coaster) on the rail next to the pocket. Typically it is referred to as a "patch". The patch usually remains somewhere on the rail during the entire night so it is easily accessible. Well my opponent decided it was "distracting" so he kept removing it. Every time I shot the 8 I had to ask the fool where the patch was and it was always in a different place. The third game I ran down to the 8-ball, patched the corner pocket, missed my shot, and the 8 remained near that corner. My opponent then failed to run out. I was down on my 8-ball shot when I suddenly realized that the patch was no longer there. Mr. "18 Beers" had removed it again. I have never seen anyone do such a nonsensical thing. I beat him 4-0. <hr></blockquote>

My point here was this: I had asked the guy twice (politely) to please leave the marker on the table. In 3+ years I had never seen anyone remove the marker from the table. Not only did he keep moving it, but he almost cost me a game in the process. The marker should be like chalk. Move it if you need to but leave it on the table.

SpiderMan
04-15-2002, 09:13 AM
Jay,

That's not even a foul in APA. Any 7 should know the rules inside and out.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr>

Second worst was a call (involving the same 7) he safed his opponent and got BIH. He set the CB on the table and got down to shoot. He had set the cue a bit too close to the object ball and placed the center of his shaft on the ball and drew it backwards about 2 inches. The other team called a foul and proceeded to win the game and set. Petty BS has no place in the game of pool.

Jay M

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