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Ross
10-15-2003, 03:30 PM
Monday night I was playing in a 5 & 5 ring game with some pretty good players. Often I find it difficult to get in stroke in ring games, especially against strong players because it may be 10 minutes and 50 bucks before I get a decent shot to look at.

But this was one of those nights where I could see the shots and knew I would make them before I shot them. In two hours or so of play I made several nice runs outs (for me) that I was proud of. Remember, these are on a very tight Diamond table, with spectators making a ruckus, juke box blaring, and people regularly walking in my line of sight. So I was happy to make anything.

Anyway here are a few of the nice shots and runs I had (remember, I'm no Chris Cass or Rod or Steve L, so be gentle):
(http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html )

START(%Dg9D9%EE6U1%Gg3Z9%HY8D1%IK4O2%PE9F0%Ue7[0%VU9[0%WF0T1%XJ3I3
%YX8E0%ZT7X9%[U5Z3%\f3Z7%]P5T2%^X8C2%_K3H2%`g2D7%aE7E8%bT5[0
%cC8T8%dE4T4)END

Then there was this shot:

START(%Hr3H7%IO3D0%PW3O2%Wq4I7%XX1N9%[C6G3%\r8I9%]V1D2%^C0G2%eA9a4)END
Nothing spectacular, but I had to get the right amount of inside english and the right speed and I executed it perfectly.

Then this fortunate one that of course pi--ed everybody else off:

START(%ED4W8%FG6J6%GS0Y2%HN9O8%IM1T1%Pg6Q6%WE6V8%X f8Q9%[C7Z9%\D2X5
%]s5C5%^M8S9%_K6T6%`C8V4%aD8V8)END

I was just trying to use the 9 to stop the cueball - getting the double on one shot was just a bonus.

Anyway, just wanted to share one of my good outings since they are all too rare.

Rod
10-15-2003, 03:56 PM
Hey Ross,

Youse" guys might drill that 4 ball shot, but not me! LOL I'd have to go buy a stroke or just have one on the spot. ha ha ha Good outs BTW, those double money ball shots don't come up that often.

~~~rod, takes side bets next time on ross

Ross
10-15-2003, 05:22 PM
Thanks, Rod. I WAS proudest of the 4 ball shot especially since I was close enough to the rail that I was a bit jacked up. Even better for me was that I didn't do the "great shot - stupid shot" routine, and even pulled off the controlled draw shot on the 7 as well followed by the very thin cut on the 8. I got some pretty positive comments from the railbirds for a change. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It helped that the tables had been covered about 3 or 4 weeks before with Simonis. The table gets a lot of use so it wasn't like a couple-day-old Simonis, but still it was draw-friendly cloth.

And the lucky double was sweet since it paid me 40 jellybeans in one shot! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
10-15-2003, 05:55 PM
VERY Sweet shot on the 4 ball.. I would feel lucky to hit that one 1 out of 4 tries.

cheesemouse
10-15-2003, 08:48 PM
Ross,

All very nice Ross. I play on a friends Pro cut Diamond table so I can appreciate the difficulty of string difficult shots together for that treasured out. I can testify that the four ball shot had to be hit dead solid perfect on a tight Diamond...rock on!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

plato 17
10-15-2003, 10:28 PM
Ross, you do not have to be in stroke for a ring game. A ring game is a con and a hustle. The way it works is you have 2 or 3 cons, who act like then cant run 3 balls when any of them can run 3 racks drunk. You gamble with each other and begin losing large sums of money to each other, which is the con, no money really is wagered, you just act like it. The suckers and marks, chumps, sausages come up and go holy cow, these guys cant run 3 balls, I can get in there and get rich. You get in 2 or 3 chumps, make sure they never get a shot, take out all of them. When they leave, the ring runners split up the profits equally. That is a ring game. Just never give the mark, a shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nhp
10-16-2003, 04:52 AM
The ring games I like to play are usually with friends who also play pool seriously. Sometimes a few new faces will join in, so that makes it a little more fun. We play 15-ball rotation, with the 5, 10, and 15 balls at $1-2-3 or $2-4-6. Our rules are no intentional safes, everyone is supposed to shark the player who is shooting, with everything you can do except getting close to him and touching the table. Since it is cheap, everyone is usually laughing their guts out the whole time. The reason it's fun is because you really can't lose more than $50 bucks after a few hours, and nobody is really in it playing seriously or trying to rob everyone. Good times /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
10-16-2003, 05:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> But this was one of those nights where I could see the shots and knew I would make them before I shot them. In two hours or so of play I made several nice runs outs <hr /></blockquote>

Congrats, Ross. I'm just wondering if you were working on visualizing the shots a little more based on your other post.

Ross
10-16-2003, 03:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> But this was one of those nights where I could see the shots and knew I would make them before I shot them. In two hours or so of play I made several nice runs outs <hr /></blockquote>

Congrats, Ross. I'm just wondering if you were working on visualizing the shots a little more based on your other post. <hr /></blockquote>

Totally! For example, on the 4 ball shot I pictured the exact spot on the pocket facing I wanted to hit and the exact spot I wanted to draw to. Then I just concentrated on a relaxed shoulder and hand and bringing my backswing all of the way back to my knuckles and then smooth stroke. (I have a tendency to not complete my backswing on difficult or pressure shots and that causes me to jerk forward and miss every time.)

Ross
10-16-2003, 03:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> Ross,

All very nice Ross. I play on a friends Pro cut Diamond table so I can appreciate the difficulty of string difficult shots together for that treasured out. I can testify that the four ball shot had to be hit dead solid perfect on a tight Diamond...rock on!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks, cheese. If you play on those tight diamonds you know what I mean then. Even feather the long rail on that shot and you will rattle it every time. In a lot of the tournaments the pros have the advantage of playing on brand new cloth which does allow you to hit up the rail a bit. For them the pockets are tight, but the cloth makes them forgiving from certain angles.

Ross
10-16-2003, 03:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> VERY Sweet shot on the 4 ball.. I would feel lucky to hit that one 1 out of 4 tries. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks, Tom. I'm not sure I would bet on myself on that shot on that table given 5 to 1, given the jacked up part. But that night I would have. I pretty much knew I was going to make it and get position before I shot it. Got to love those times, huh?

8 ball ho
10-16-2003, 03:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> VERY Sweet shot on the 4 ball.. I would feel lucky to hit that one 1 out of 4 tries. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks, Tom. I'm not sure I would bet on myself on that shot on that table given 5 to 1, given the jacked up part. But that night I would have. I pretty much knew I was going to make it and get position before I shot it. Got to love those times, huh? <hr /></blockquote>


Ross, you really do not have a clue, if I were you, I would stop gambling, you sound like you are a mark to me. Let's see you said this:

Monday night I was playing in a 5 &amp; 5 ring game with some pretty good players. Often I find it difficult to get in stroke in ring games, especially against strong players because it may be 10 minutes and 50 bucks before I get a decent shot to look at.

See Ross, the reason you dont get a shot and get clipped fifty bucks is you are a mark, they are hustling you and you are too dumb to catch on to the hustle.

Plato explains this one to you in detail:

Ross, you do not have to be in stroke for a ring game. A ring game is a con and a hustle. The way it works is you have 2 or 3 cons, who act like then cant run 3 balls when any of them can run 3 racks drunk. You gamble with each other and begin losing large sums of money to each other, which is the con, no money really is wagered, you just act like it. The suckers and marks, chumps, sausages come up and go holy cow, these guys cant run 3 balls, I can get in there and get rich. You get in 2 or 3 chumps, make sure they never get a shot, take out all of them. When they leave, the ring runners split up the profits equally. That is a ring game. Just never give the mark, a shot.

Plato

Ross, you still did not get it, your a chump, sucker, mark, you were hustled. The problem is even when the evidence is right in front of you guys, you still will not accept it. Ok, Rossi, you now know ring games are cons to lure chumps like you in, so do not get in another one. Do not gamble until you learn which end is up and how to play. Do not support hustlers Rossi, make them get a real job. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
10-16-2003, 05:22 PM
hey, anybody can get lucky! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

pooltchr
10-17-2003, 06:24 AM
Another pointless post from the self proclaimed ho. You seem to know everything about everyone. I have seen Ross' game, and happen to know he plays well above the average player. I also tend to find his posts interesting, well thought out, and usually right on track. Your posts on the other hand, seem to be designed for nothing more than to let you see yourself on the board. Go find a board for divers and ho's. You would fit in much better.

Popcorn
10-17-2003, 07:28 AM
I have played in ring games where they have tried to put me in the middle, the problem is they are giving me odds on the money as it applies to them and may not realize it. They have to split up the meager money they are collecting from me and when I run a few racks they all have to pay up. You would be surprised how bad those guys can begin to dog it, when they realize every time they lose they lose $30. or $40. and when they win, they win $10. Even players that are trying to put you in the middle, have to themselves be good players. Trying to set up another player and make it look good, is not that easy and if the best player is following me, they are in real trouble. It's funny to see a player get set up, only to hang the ball and lose everybody's money to the one they thought was the sucker. I am afraid your opinion sounds like it may be from the prospective of one that is not a very good player As a good player I have to say I love ring games. It is very hard for them to stay ahead of me money wise, when I am running racks, I am not saying they can't, but they have no easy task. I will usually bust them out regardless what they try to do unless they are at least players of equal caliber. Ring games seems to bring out the dog in players. Just my opinion, but from personal experience.

Chris Cass
10-17-2003, 07:34 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

I got into a ring game where 2 brothers were playing. They paid twice when they lost and I only paid once. My friends told me not to mess with them and after leaving $260. ahead, they agreed with me. We were playing $20./$40. They quit btw.


Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
10-17-2003, 07:56 AM
I have never encountered this with good players anyway. It is usually a few a average or weak, players that assume if they conspire against me they will automatically win.

Ross
10-17-2003, 10:13 AM
Thanks for the generous advice, ho. It's nice to know you care. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Actually, I do just fine money-wise in the ring games I play in. I just usually don't shoot as well as I would like or as well as I do heads up. But recently I have been shooting great in ring games - that was my point. I do know enough to stay out of one local ring game that has only A players in it like Frank Tullis, BJ Ussery, Jack Stenner, and a couple of others all of whom have beaten decent pros on occasion. Even if I shoot well, I can't regularly run multiple racks like they can.

8 ball ho
10-17-2003, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I have played in ring games where they have tried to put me in the middle, the problem is they are giving me odds on the money as it applies to them and may not realize it. They have to split up the meager money they are collecting from me and when I run a few racks they all have to pay up. You would be surprised how bad those guys can begin to dog it, when they realize every time they lose they lose $30. or $40. and when they win, they win $10. Even players that are trying to put you in the middle, have to themselves be good players. Trying to set up another player and make it look good, is not that easy and if the best player is following me, they are in real trouble. It's funny to see a player get set up, only to hang the ball and lose everybody's money to the one they thought was the sucker. I am afraid your opinion sounds like it may be from the prospective of one that is not a very good player As a good player I have to say I love ring games. It is very hard for them to stay ahead of me money wise, when I am running racks, I am not saying they can't, but they have no easy task. I will usually bust them out regardless what they try to do unless they are at least players of equal caliber. Ring games seems to bring out the dog in players. Just my opinion, but from personal experience. <hr /></blockquote>


Dear popcorn sir, you miss the point, a ring game is to trap dumb bells, the guy with hay seeds falling out of his hair, who just got off of the hay wagon and got into town. You know, a mark, chump, sucker.

You sir are an ex pro player, therefore none of that works on you, because you are hip, with it, and are not a mark, you enjoy, hustling the hustlers.

Normal club players should avoid ring games because almost all of them are traps intended only to pull them in and hustle them.
Sorry but that is the brutal truth, like it or not. Is your problem that the truth on how these work, has been revealed and may affect your income from them, I bet that is it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
10-17-2003, 12:43 PM
I do agree with you in this respect, a ring game to a weaker player may seem to be just a lot of fun, especially when they win two or three games in a row and pocket all that money. They will however, unless they quit winner, end up on the short end by the of the night. It can be a nice social night out and not too expensive if they set a limit. A ring game to the better player works like this. You stay in the game for the full term of the game. If it is a good game and last a while, a dozen or more players may be in and out of the game. I have played in games that lasted days and a hundred players may have been in and out and a lot of them will have left their money behind. No one player got hurt to bad, but between them they could drop a few thousand, even in a small game. The good players usually each end up with a percent of it, not as a result of any kind of conspiracy, that is just the way it works out. They represent a pretty good game for the house as well. The room makes money off the table time, they often attract a lot of rail birds if it is a good game who spend money and they are fun. It is great to know you can go to the poolroom and find a ring game to watch or play in. Pill pool is dead now, but that was a great game as well. Some years ago I used to play in a ring game almost every weekend at a place in central Florida called I believe the 98 Country Bar. This is years ago but it may still be there. It was 9 ball on a bar table. In fact when you put in the quarter only nine balls came out, that is all they played there. It was a 200 mile drive each way but it was worth it. This game was open to anyone but a lot of B level players would be in and out all night leaving their bankroll. It was not unusual to see a Wade Crane, Jay Swanson, Jimmy Reid, or who ever was around in there, this was the place to go. I think they built much of their weekend business around the pool action. I am rambling here, but you are right, if you are a weak player, you may have a little fun, but you will probably lose in a ring game. Man, just writing this makes me want to play a ring game right now.

8 ball ho
10-17-2003, 02:16 PM
Post deleted by 8 ball ho

8 ball ho
10-17-2003, 02:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 8 ball ho:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I do agree with you in this respect, a ring game to a weaker player may seem to be just a lot of fun, especially when they win two or three games in a row and pocket all that money. They will however, unless they quit winner, end up on the short end by the of the night. It can be a nice social night out and not too expensive if they set a limit. A ring game to the better player works like this. You stay in the game for the full term of the game. If it is a good game and last a while, a dozen or more players may be in and out of the game. I have played in games that lasted days and a hundred players may have been in and out and a lot of them will have left their money behind. No one player got hurt to bad, but between them they could drop a few thousand, even in a small game. The good players usually each end up with a percent of it, not as a result of any kind of conspiracy, that is just the way it works out. They represent a pretty good game for the house as well. The room makes money off the table time, they often attract a lot of rail birds if it is a good game who spend money and they are fun. It is great to know you can go to the poolroom and find a ring game to watch or play in. Pill pool is dead now, but that was a great game as well. Some years ago I used to play in a ring game almost every weekend at a place in central Florida called I believe the 98 Country Bar. This is years ago but it may still be there. It was 9 ball on a bar table. In fact when you put in the quarter only nine balls came out, that is all they played there. It was a 200 mile drive each way but it was worth it. This game was open to anyone but a lot of B level players would be in and out all night leaving their bankroll. It was not unusual to see a Wade Crane, Jay Swanson, Jimmy Reid, or who ever was around in there, this was the place to go. I think they built much of their weekend business around the pool action. I am rambling here, but you are right, if you are a weak player, you may have a little fun, but you will probably lose in a ring game. Man, just writing this makes me want to play a ring game right now. <hr /></blockquote>


Let me see if I fully understand your post, you now say the main reason rooms should allow pool hustlers to run these cons is promoting gambling and cleaning out their customers is good business and makes them more table time? A really good con and swindle going on in their room attracts more business. You did say that, didn't you, and you did admit, all the club players lose, didn't you. Popcorn, it's a con, a hustle, a pig is still a pig, no matter how many pink ribbons you tie around his neck. He still stinks. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn
10-17-2003, 02:52 PM
I don't make judgments, just telling you how it is. To put it in perspective, before leagues they always had house games. Often Pill pool, Golf is a house game. Those games take in a lot of money in table time. They often go from opening to closing. They would also attract a lot of watchers who spend money. Now players play in leagues and don't think the whole reason behind the league is to make money for the house. They want the players to play and drink as well as those with them and those in the place watching. Some leagues won't even let the place in the league if they don't serve beer. A bowling league is the same deal, it is there to make money. There is no con being run by playing a ring game any more then running a tournament where 90% of the field have no real chance to win. No body is stalling or doing anything to get players to play, they enjoy it and want to be part of the action. It just is a fact the better players will win in the long run. I doubt anyone in the game has any illusions about that. I explained to you very simply how it works, would you prefer I lied?

8 ball ho
10-17-2003, 03:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I don't make judgments, just telling you how it is. To put it in perspective, before leagues they always had house games. Often Pill pool, Golf is a house game. Those games take in a lot of money in table time. They often go from opening to closing. They would also attract a lot of watchers who spend money. Now players play in leagues and don't think the whole reason behind the league is to make money for the house. They want the players to play and drink as well as those with them. Some leagues won't even let the place in the league if they don't serve beer. A bowling league is the same deal, it is there to make money. There is no con being run by playing a ring game any more then running a tournament where 90% of the field have no real chance to win. No body is stalling or doing anything to get players to play, they enjoy it and want to be part of the action. It just is a fact the better players will win in the long run. I doubt anyone in the game has any illusions about that. I explained to you very simply how it works, would you prefer I lied? <hr /></blockquote>

Oh no, you are not lying, you are doing what the white house does when they get their hand stuck in the cookie jar, its called spinning the facts, so a pig comes out looking like a poodle. I, told you, how it was, you, refuse to allow that and now spin it so it looks good. Any con, hustle that takes money out of the pockets of room players is never good. Spin all you want, you cant get out from under that one. When the carnival comes to town, and when they break down the tents and move, the carnies have the day off. One will slip in the pool hall, give the desk man or owner 25% of what he wins and hustles the room customers out of on his 3 card monty game he begins to run in the corner.

It's action, its fun, it is profitable for the room owner, I have seen it ran and done many times. It is still a con, just like the majority of these ring games are. A con, is a con. Any room owner allowing them to be ran on his customers is a con and a discrace as well. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
10-17-2003, 03:29 PM
Interesting comments coming from a guy whose idol is Omaha Fats. I understand Larry your very sick and as a result have probably now gotten religion, I am sure that accounts for your comments. Thing is though, when you are dead, gone and forgotten, I will be out playing pool somewhere, maybe in a ring game.

plato 17
10-17-2003, 06:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Interesting comments coming from a guy whose idol is Omaha Fats. I understand Larry your very sick and as a result have probably now gotten religion, I am sure that accounts for your comments. Thing is though, when you are dead, gone and forgotten, I will be out playing pool somewhere, maybe in a ring game. <hr /></blockquote>


FL SAW YOUR POST, SENT ME HIS REPLY VIA EMAIL, ASKED ME TO POST IT FOR YOU TO SEE:

It is sad, every time you have a problem on this board with some body, it becomes me. Martin Kiaman was indeed one of my earlier teachers. His name was Omaha Fat, not Fats. I spent years around him; he taught me much, including my one handed play. He was the greatest pool hustler I ever saw. I simply studied what he did, learned how he did it. What I learned from him was invaluable.

He was never my idol, in fact I have written he was a pig, the worst thing you could ever do in life was invite him to a steak house with you for dinner. The fact is, at what he did, he was the best in the world at the time I knew him.

I studied under Minnesota Fats as well. I was fascinated on how he pulled off pool’s greatest con and hustle, selling him self as Minnesota Fats. I learned a lot from him. I loved the big dope. When Fatty left, there is nobody that can remotely even dream of taking his place. I looked up to my good friend, Fast Eddy, who I came up with in the same pool hall with. The people I teach now, what they did to become champions, the basics of what I do, what they did to win and what my pool school is all about are three players, Hoppe, Greenleaf, and Mosconi.

The other teachers who taught me personally what I now know and teach, are the real people I admire and they remain my idols, they are, in the order I worked with them are Bennie Allen, Jimmy Caras, Rick Wright, Paul Gerni, Ray Schuler.

To answer your other statements, my mental health is wonderful, so is my physical health. If it was not, I would not be attempting to launch my world tour this December which will circumnavigate the world. A person must be in excellent health, to accomplish such of an endeavor. This will be my 3rd world tour.

Yes I am a person of religion, and of faith. I am writing a book which is now one third finished, when you see it, you will be astonished to find, a great deal of it will be on the spiritual side of sports. It is aimed at Golfers, Tennis players and pool players. Three sports, I have played well in the past.

If you have any further questions of me, or want to know anything, feel free to go into my web site www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com), pick up my email and write me, or my phone number and call me, I will talk to any one who identifies their phone number coming in.

The only board I am now posting under my name is on billiards-pool.net, if you wish to communicate with me, go there, so I do not have to use others to communicate with you here. Popcorn, you are a great player, I admire you also greatly. I wish you well in your many ring games you may play in. If that is your thing, and you do it well, then go with what you know always. If you do it well, no matter what it is, then I admire you sir.
Fast Larry Guninger
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ross
10-18-2003, 12:09 PM
Popcorn - I enjoyed your post. You really captured the atmosphere surrounding ring games. Recently one local owner put in a custom built snooker table. Now he has a multi-player snooker game going on continuously most afternoons and into the evenings with players coming in and out, sometimes they have up to 8 players in the game. Its low stakes - $10 a player - but its all about the socializing plus getting to compete. And yes the better players win in the long run - just like they should. That's the reward for being a better player.