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Clarky
10-29-2003, 10:36 AM
Hi,

Getting my pockets shimmed down in size and was wondering what would be the best size to go to. I would like to go to something close to what the Diamond Pro or Gold Crown used at pro events are set at. Does anyone know what the measurements are.

Next, putting on Simonis 860 and was wondering what the best way is to keep this cloth clean. I have a Dirt Devil but wasn't sure if this will damage the Simonis or not. Have heard of people just using a damp cloth, etc. Anyway, I am sure this has been discussed many times before here so if someone wants to repeat some advice or send me to an old post that would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

=k=
10-29-2003, 10:53 AM
the best way to keep it clean is don't use powder. and don't drill your chalk, wipe it on.. okay as to cleaning your cloth, i brush down table, use a vacum with a camel hair nosle to keep plastic off cloth, they wipe down with a damp towel.

PoolFan
10-29-2003, 01:34 PM
Typically, pocket size at pro events are 4 1/2".

Iowashark
10-29-2003, 02:33 PM
To keep mine clean I use a masking tape lint roller, that get's everything off without damaging the cloth. I've found the brushes only come in handy with nappy cloth.

tateuts
10-29-2003, 02:40 PM
I have mine set at 4 1/2 inches and I like it. If I had it to do over, personally I would go a little smaller, but guests would have a harder time playing. Most tournament tables are set at 4 1/2" and I think the minimum allowable size is 4".

I also have Simonis cloth. It's super easy to clean with just a brush, and I use a vacuum on it once in a while.

A couple of things about Simonis - 1) If you practice your break from the same spot, keep a little square as a launching pad to use under the cue ball for protection. 2) Although the cloth is plenty durable, it is prone to tearing as a result of masse shots (if the cue tip follows through to the cloth).

Simonis is definitely worth the money.

Chris

RUNaRAK
10-29-2003, 02:47 PM
I only use a brush and a damp cloth on my table with 860 simonis. They do a fabulous job.
I never chalk over the table and keep my hands clean and dry so that I do not have to use talc.
I brush it every couple of days and wipe it down with a damp cloth weekly. Never used a vacuum because I have never had the need?
My 2 cents.

bigdawg
10-29-2003, 03:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RUNaRAK:</font><hr> I only use a brush and a damp cloth on my table with 860 simonis. They do a fabulous job.
I never chalk over the table and keep my hands clean and dry so that I do not have to use talc.
I brush it every couple of days and wipe it down with a damp cloth weekly. Never used a vacuum because I have never had the need?
My 2 cents.

<hr /></blockquote>

The table I practice on has 5" pockets, when I go to another table that has the newer 4 3/4" pockets, I begin to miss a lot of shots. Playing with big sloppy pockets does hurt your game. Playing a lot on tighter pockets only helps your game.

Barbara
10-29-2003, 05:03 PM
Clarky,

Why are you getting your table shimmed? Do you play in a lot of competition? Do the rooms near you or the ones you play in have tight pockets and you need to be on par with playing in that kind of scenario?

You haven't mentioned what level of player you are, so I'm guessing that you want to be competitive. If you're just beginning out in this game, shimming your pockets to 4 1/2" can be brutal and may discourage you in the long run. Besides, you're taking away another aspect of playing with larger pockets - cheating the pocket to get shape on your next ball.

As for cleaning Simonis, I use a Dirt Devil after I practice and then I brush the table from head to foot. Every so often I wipe the table down with a damp cloth to get even more chalk out of the cloth.

Barbara

david
10-29-2003, 07:03 PM
Barbara,
Your pool table cloth can be compared to an expensive blouse. If you were to get some chalk on your blouse and wiped it with a damp cloth you would permanently stain the blouse and you have pushed the chalk into the fibers of the cloth. If you were to take a loop and look into the fibers you would see that it looks like a mud clogging the fibers. This one of the reasons that Simonis doesn't recomend using a damp cloth. The damp cloth will also bleed the color out of the cloth. It will also create other problems down the road.

Clarky
10-30-2003, 09:43 AM
Hi, I have been playing for quite a while and just had a new table installed. The table is just playing way too loose and I just have never had the chance to measure a Diamond Pro or Gold Crown in person. I thought they were between 4 and 4.5 inches but was not sure. Basically I want my table to play as tight as I can so when I go to tournaments, league, etc. I am used to more difficult conditions.

For the simonis, I keep hearing differing opinions on the care of the cloth. Some say to use a damp cloth and some say not to. I have even heard that using a warm damp cloth will somehow actually "shrink" the cloth a bit to keep it tight. I would really like some more opinions on this if anyone has more suggestions.

bolo
10-30-2003, 09:56 AM
A table that is so tight that you can't execute what should be makable shots and position is no good either. It will have you just cinching balls and not really playing the game. The table has to play fair. If you are concerned about your shot making, you can try those pocket inserts that make the pocket smaller without altering the table. The point is, there are tables that are too tight and effect what should be the proper play of the game.

Popcorn
10-30-2003, 10:12 AM
Unless it is your table, you will most likely not have much choice as to how tight the pockets are you practice on. It is best to develop the habit of hitting balls with accuracy even on the easiest shots. You should not require a tight table to force you to practice properly. At a tournament once when asked about the tables usually tight pockets and if he thought it may effect his game, Mosconi once quipped, "have they moved the centers"?

tateuts
10-30-2003, 12:54 PM
Clarky,

Sounds like you're at 5" or more on the pocket size. That's what my Olhausen came with. They were buckets! I think it hurts your game playing with pockets that size. It's not just a matter of accuracy. It's more of the idea that you can just cheat the pocket to get shape instead of playing good angles. Tight pockets force you to make clean cut shots, rail shots, etc. and if you get out of line, you pay.

Sounds like 4 1/2" might be just right for you. The other advice I would give is to also have the side pockets tightened up at the same time.

My thinking is, it's a whole lot easier going from a tight table to a sloppy one than vice-versa.

Chris

RUNaRAK
10-30-2003, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote david:</font><hr> Barbara,
If you were to take a loop and look into the fibers you would see that it looks like a mud clogging the fibers. This one of the reasons that Simonis doesn't recomend using a damp cloth. The damp cloth will also bleed the color out of the cloth. It will also create other problems down the road. <hr /></blockquote>

Not sure where David gets his information from but, I called Simonis directly. (1-800-simonis) and they recommend using a soft billiard brush and a damp cloth with water only. I try to only give advice if I have checked it out first. If you are going to use a vacuum, use one that has 3hp or less. ie a dustbuster with no turning brushes.
Be sure your damp cloth is not very wet. You do not want to soak the table of course.
I hope this helps in your Simonis care. That is exactly what I use. Only a brush and a damp cloth and have been doing so for some time.

Peace,
Joe
/ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Anonamus
10-30-2003, 01:14 PM
Practising on tables with tight pockets will help build your confidence. Sure you want to hit the center of the pocket every time, but when you don't the tight pocket will give you the negative reinforcement you need to become more accurate. I always remember the shots I missed and not so much the ones I made. So I practise those shots. Besides, the tight pockets will force you to work on your concentration as well. Then when you go to the PH the pockets will seem like buckets and you will feel very confident.

Barbara
10-30-2003, 05:28 PM
Clarky,

I see your point. My table was just over 5 inches and too easy. The pool hall that i frequent 9used to) has shimmed Black Crowns that used to kill me. Their pockets were about 4 3/4" which is a very happy medium. So I had my table shimmed, too.

I'm just a little concerned about going any tight than that and as tateuts said, "Just learning to cinch shots and not learning to play the table."

Hey, it's your table, you do what you want.

Barbara

david
10-30-2003, 05:56 PM
Joe,
I try not to give out information unless I am sure,are you sure.
My information comes "directly" from Jean-Francois Schmitz of Simonis cloth over seas in the manfacturing plant and not the US distributor. He says and I quote "the water can effectively cause the cloth color to fade but may also stretch the cloth". He also gives cleaning instructions and talks about burn marks. If you or anyone intrested would like a copy of the email I will fordward you a copy. Email me at david@quick-clean.com and I will send it to you.

David

Sid_Vicious
10-30-2003, 08:17 PM
"As for cleaning Simonis, I use a Dirt Devil after I practice and then I brush the table from head to foot. Every so often I wipe the table down with a damp cloth to get even more chalk out of the cloth."


That is what I do too. Do you use a particular pattern when you vacuum? Thx...sid

Barbara
10-30-2003, 08:31 PM
Sid,

Vaccuming, not really, although I do try to go lengthwise.

But when I'm wiping down the table, I always go lengthwise with the towel wipes.

Barbara

JimS
10-30-2003, 09:40 PM
I have a Diamond Pro. The pockets measure at 4 1/2 to 4 9/16 depending on who is doing the measuring and whether we can agree on exactly where the tip of the pocket is.

I vac my Simonis 860 with the Dirt Devil with the rotating brush in the head and have never had any problems. It gets the cloth much cleaner than using a regular vac. I'm careful to not push it down into the cloth. Just sort of glide it over the surface.

About once a month, when I was playing regularly, I'd use a slightly warm damp cloth on it. I have a bucket close by, wet the towel, wring it out, fold it up and wipe the table off wiping from end to end, up and down the table, rewetting the towel and wringing it out several times until the whole table was wiped and damp, just damp. Then I'd check to make sure I'd wiped under the rails and wipe the rails them selves, the pocket shelves etc.

Wiping it down with warm water never has hurt a thing and you'd be amazed how blue the towel is when you get done.

There will be a lot of chalk dust build up under the cloth so it's not a good idea to get the cloth WET as it will turn that dust to mud and perhaps cause it to create a bump in the cloth. Just a little damp to pick up what chalk is lodged in the cloth.

I recommend the Dirt Devil and a damp wipe. Both have worked well for me.

RUNaRAK
10-31-2003, 06:50 AM
David,
Looks like we are getting 2 different stories from Simonis. I called and talked to the lady that answers the phone. She assured me that using a damp cloth would not hurt the cloth at all. I have always used the damp cloth and had no problems. I am sorry if my earlier message came across to abruptly, I did not intend to offend you.
My mistake.
However, I think it boils down to you just need to maintain your cloth. Several other posters have indicated that they use a damp cloth as well and have no issues. Just like most things, we are all stating what has worked for us to help the person with their inquiries.
Good luck with your new table..

Peace, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Barbara
10-31-2003, 08:04 AM
Jim,

This is exactly what I do, too.

Using a damp cloth also gets out the "roll lines" - line white-ish lines that form on the cloth from constantly shooting a ball down the rail and the white-ish lines that form inside the pocket facings.

The cloth comes out nice and green when it dries.

Barbara

Clarky
10-31-2003, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the advice folks, much appreciated.

david
10-31-2003, 04:22 PM
Joe,
I was just letting you know where my information came from. My inquriry to Simonis was brought on when I owned my pool hall. The cloths on my tables became very faded and the cloth became loose. I emailed the manafacture to find out what had caused this to happen and find out the best way to clean my cloths. That is when I was enlightened about the damp cloth because that is what we used. The name of the person that you talked with at the distributor was proberly Felice. When I talked with her she was not aware the the manafacture recomended no water. I sent her a copy of the email that I got. She is looking into this with the manafacture and will be getting back in touch with me. I have had talks with the Simonis distributor that you called and I can assure you that they are great people and only want the best for thier customers. I was just trying to let people know what had happened to me. I still offer you a copy of the email. Thank heavens for news groups so that we can get ideas and information and I certanly respect your views. I will post what Felica says when she emails me back. I an sure that she will find an answer to our questions.