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UWPoolGod
11-04-2003, 12:45 PM
You all have good arguements for both sides of any governmental matter. I mean eg8r and Qtec go at each other daily. Why I don't understand is: why there is anything to complain about? The government is going to do whatever they are going to do..for the countries or their own political good. There is nothing wrong with debate, that is what makes the world great. But when it has to do with politics, people are going to make up their minds, either good or bad decisions, about what they think they like. And each side is going to try to convince the other of their wrong choice in the matter. Some may be persuaded to change views...but most not. My friend would go on and on about liberals and democrats...finally I told him I didn't want to hear it anymore and it was the last he talked about it. Nothing happened due to his bitching...so why do it. Unless you are in politics and are trying to sell some propaganda there is no reason a complain about the government. Focus that energy to something usefull....like pool. LOL!!

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2003, 12:52 PM
I think it's genetic with me. My dad's side of the family talked politics constantly while I was growing up. It's a habit.

Kato
11-04-2003, 12:57 PM
I know nothing about politics but that politicians don't look out for me, they look out for themselves and their buddies. They do their thing, I do mine, I don't break the law and hopefully the economy will enable me to keep my job.

I wish we'd stop wasting money on programs that have proven not to work. I wish we'd stop throwing money at countries when it's just being stolen or squandered. I wish we'd feed the people we have here at home and really educate them and get them jobs.

I wish if anything the government would invest heavily in the future of our children.

Kato~~~doesn't matter

UWPoolGod
11-04-2003, 01:12 PM
Kato-
I also wish for those things. That is my biggest gripe of sending HUGE sums of money to other countries because we are the police of the world. When I read that $87 Billion dollars is heading to Iraq I just shrug my shoulders and say well that has to come from somewhere and I am sure $100+ will be heading out of my pocket at some time to pay for it. Nothing can prevent it, it just is.

We can only hope to vote someone in who "might" take care of some of these things that you mentioned..but they have things bass-ackwards and these issues are not on the tope of the list.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2003, 01:27 PM
What I don't understand is why Qtec worries so much about American politics. What's he think, we're gonna bomb Holland? I like tulips a lot but not enough to go to war /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2003, 01:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr>
....I wish if anything the government would invest heavily in the future of our children.....<hr /></blockquote>

They already are. Start with about $5000 per child per year in the public schools and go on to WIC, ADC, Head start, Pell grants etc.

A billion here and a billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r
11-04-2003, 01:42 PM
I would have to say...Because I enjoy it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif No more than that. I think it is important to understand what is going on in politics even if I don't have any control. I do my part by going to vote.

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing happened due to his bitching...so why do it. <hr /></blockquote> Classic quitters thinking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I really don't by this. 10 times out of 10 you are not going to be the best pool player in the world, but you still practice and play every chance you can, and I would guess that is because you want to get better, maybe even actually be a little competitive at the local ph. But if there is always going to be someone better why even try to get better? Sort of the same thing, but different. I love politics, might have had one too many courses in the Political Science program at UF. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r

Kato
11-04-2003, 03:28 PM
Overcrowded class rooms, teachers paying for books and pencils for children, ect. It's classic have, have nots. Children don't have anything to do with that equation. They are born into certain economical situations. Wanna do something with my tax dollars? Don't give it to a countries government that's been in civil war for the last 75 years, give it to the kids that want to learn. The ones that can make my future better and the future of our country. Don't give it to some scientist that wants to study cow methane emmissions, give it to someone that will buy a kid a book. Don't give it to billionare to build a baseball stadium, give a kid a bunch of paper, crayons, pens, and pencils. Don't give yourself a raise of 19% in Congress while I get a cost of living increase this year and my 401K lost 38%, stock a freakin' library already. Don't wait for me to die and give you my books because I'm going to have to sell them to pay my freakin' taxes so that some scientist can shove a thermometer up some penguins butt. Instead of Congress having their own mail system maybe they should drop the thing in a slot like everyone else and they can use that money to put in quality lighting in old schools so that kids can read and learn something. Maybe a waste of oxygen like Oliphant in Broward Country Elections can get FIRED for doing a bad job while being grossly overpaid instead of government standing by and warning her over and over again of gross incompetency while there are good teachers out there working 80 hours a week for peanuts because they want to make a difference. So maybe those billions aren't enough after all?

I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Republican. I'm a registered Independent and I vote my way not the party way.

Kato~~~doesn't like politics, doesn't like politicians, doesn't like BS and just would like something to make sense to a commoner like me.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2003, 03:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Overcrowded class rooms, teachers paying for books and pencils for children, ect.

<font color="blue">My point is there is no reason for the above situation. We spend plenty of money on education. The system wastes it.

There's too many people making big bucks (I'm talking 100k+) as administrators when the money should go to books, buildings, and teachers.

I think vouchers should at least be tried to see how they work. </font color>


....Don't wait for me to die and give you my books because I'm going to have to sell them to pay my freakin' taxes.....

<font color="blue">You'll be pleased to know the Republicans got rid of the inheritance tax /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

...Instead of Congress having their own mail system maybe they should drop the thing in a slot like everyone else

<font color="blue">Congress is pampered worse than athletes. No wonder they pass stupid laws. They are out of touch. </font color>

...So maybe those billions aren't enough after all?

<font color="blue">Yes they are, IMHO </font color>

I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Republican. I'm a registered Independent and I vote my way not the party way.

Kato~~~doesn't like politics, doesn't like politicians, doesn't like BS and just would like something to make sense to a commoner like me.

<font color="blue">Hope this helped /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

If I can be of further assistance please let me know /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

cheesemouse
11-04-2003, 04:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> finally I told him I didn't want to hear it anymore and it was the last he talked about it. Nothing happened due to his bitching...so why do it. Unless you are in politics and are trying to sell some propaganda there is no reason a complain about the government. Focus that energy to something usefull....like pool. LOL!!

<hr /></blockquote>


Politics is the biggest game of all...the politicians know that apathy is rampant in America, they like it that way....consequently we get the government we deserve....your attitude is why our governments basically sucks year in year out...just like any game, you can't win if you don't play...

Vapros
11-04-2003, 05:05 PM
Look what you've done, UWPG. You have started a political discussion!

Qtec
11-04-2003, 08:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing wrong with debate, that is what makes the world great. <font color="blue"> Agreed. </font color>
But when it has to do with politics, people are going to make up their minds, either good or bad decisions, about what they think they like. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> ...based on the facts! Not the BS lie after lie that you get forced fed everyday. </font color>


Q

Qtec
11-04-2003, 08:42 PM
18.5 billion is for Iraq reconstruction. The rest is going to the Armed Forces.

Q

Qtec
11-04-2003, 08:43 PM
I,m not worried Wally. We havent got any oil! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Q

Qtec
11-04-2003, 08:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My point is there is no reason for the above situation. We spend plenty of money on education. The system wastes it <hr /></blockquote>


That must be it.


Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qtec
11-04-2003, 10:49 PM
Wally,
[ QUOTE ]
You'll be pleased to know the Republicans got rid of the inheritance tax <hr /></blockquote>


[ QUOTE ]
The egalitarianism of the evening also stood in marked contrast to the reality of contemporary America, which in hard economic terms is a more divided and unequal country than at any time since the "gilded age" of the late 19th century.

The richest 1% of Americans now own well over 40% of their nation's wealth. It is a skewed distribution that sets the US apart from other modern industrialised nations. In Britain, widely viewed in America as the embodiment of social stratification, the richest 1% owns a mere 18% of the wealth.

These disparities are, of course, not solely the work of the Bush administration. The economic division of the country has been under way for 20 years. After a long period of levelling incomes and wealth after the second world war, inequality began to rise exponentially from 1980, driven principally by the boom in stock prices and the decline in unions.

Differentials continued to stretch, albeit more slowly, under the Clinton administration, despite its efforts to institute a more progressive tax policy. What sets the Bush era apart is the extent to which policy has reinforced the divide rather than sought to mitigate it.

Nearly half the benefits of Mr Bush's $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001 went to the richest 1%, while 60% of this year's cuts will go to taxpayers with incomes of more than $100,000, according to the tax policy centre run by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution in Washington.

Mr Bush also fought hard to repeal an inheritance tax that affected only the wealthiest 2%, as well as cutting capital gains tax and trying to abolish the tax on dividends .

The Bush cabinet also stands out for its big money background. Every member is a millionaire and, the Centre for Public Integrity says, its total net worth is more than 10 times that of the Clinton cabinet.

President Bush may not be the cause of America's unequal society, but the members of his administration arguably personify a new plutocracy.


<hr /></blockquote>


Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 07:26 AM
blah blah blah. More leftist blather. We've already discussed this. The rich pay most of the taxes. That's why they benefit from the tax cut.

I've never gotten a job from a poor man.
=====================================

The fact of the inheritance tax is this. If a guy works his whole life to build a business worth $5 million, why should his children have to pay the govt. $2 million when he dies just so they can continue the business?
Why Q? Why? Do you think that's fair?

Let's say you're a farmer with $1 million worth of land and the land has been in your family for 150 years. When you die, should your children have to take out a mortgage on that land to pay the friggin' taxes?

Do you think that's fair Q? DO YOU??????????

This pisses me off. Can you tell? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r
11-05-2003, 07:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I've never gotten a job from a poor man.
<hr /></blockquote> Q would never understand this. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
11-05-2003, 07:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
18.5 billion is for Iraq reconstruction. The rest is going to the Armed Forces. <hr /></blockquote> What portion is for Afghanistan? They were in there somewhere. The majority (large %) is going to the military. My gosh, should those guys work for free while they are over there cleaning up the Taliban's mess, or Saddam's mess? There are a lot of salaries over there, and the majority of the money will be going to over things the military needs.

eg8r

Kato
11-05-2003, 07:34 AM
You're a nice guy Wally and I won't argue a topic that I have woeful knowledge of. If you say we spend enough then I accept that. We probably spend enough on everything. Sadly the bureaucratic machine sucks up way to much!!!!! That's it, they are fired /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You will grant me that school administrators are basically politicians to and they deserve to be booted unless they do well like anyone else. After all, if I waste my companies money and do a bad, inefficient job don't I get fired? Well instead they are wasting my money and the kids aren't being taught in proper environments. What would happen if they took a bunch of people, working people, rich and poor, that weren't politicians and let us in to see the schools books and see what the government was wasting on "Pork"? What would we say, us normal folk with common sense?

Personally, I think they should let me loose on Capital Hill and every where in between with a bunch of pink slips and just for the heck of it a bunch of cops. I'll start right here in my home town and just start firing people and if they really are hiding some stuff we'll just bust 'em. Might as well bring the TV crews. "Kato, live on location with some of the baddest hombres with badges in the world!!!!"

Maybe someday on my hypothetical journey I'll make it to Hamiltucky and Wally and I can go out firing people there to (between beers /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif).

Kato~~~I'm really not arguing. I really don't appreciate politicians and the games they play with my money. And don't try to tell me that my vote matters and we can change the system because we can't.

Kato
11-05-2003, 07:37 AM
Don't they have those cool wooden shoes there? Or is that the Netherlands? I don't know much about geography. I went to a website to check out the Dutch folks and it didn't look like a lot of stuff we'd wanna go blow up. Do they have good weed there?

Kato~~~inadequate at pool, geography, and politics /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Qtec
11-05-2003, 08:30 AM
Kato, the best weed in the WORLD is in Holland.

Q

Qtec
11-05-2003, 08:45 AM
All I can say is that according to eg8r, everybody starts off in life with an equal chance. This is just a way of leveling things out.

If my daddy worked HIS ass off to make HIS money, should that mean that I , as his son, should be able to sit on my ass for the rest of my life ?[ chance would be a fine thing].

How am I contributing to the common good?
Should I complain because I am getting a better start in life?
The more you take out, the more you should pay. Whats wrong with that?
Sometimes you have to think of the good of the nation, not only your own personal circumstances. Thats whats called Patriotism!

The Inheritance Tax is only paid on the money that has not already been salted away. Its always based on the minimum.

Would you notice the difference if you had only 2 million in your bank account instead of 5 million?

I guess these poor souls will just have to tough it out with a smaller yacht. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> All I can say is that according to eg8r, everybody starts off in life with an equal chance. This is just a way of leveling things out.

If my daddy worked HIS ass off to make HIS money,

<font color="blue">But that's my point. It's HIS money. Not the govt. </font color>

should that mean that I , as his son, should be able to sit on my ass for the rest of my life ?

<font color="blue">What place is it of the govt. to decide that. BTW this is what the Kennedys have done for 70 years now. </font color>

[ chance would be a fine thing].

How am I contributing to the common good?
Should I complain because I am getting a better start in life?
The more you take out, the more you should pay. Whats wrong with that?
Sometimes you have to think of the good of the nation, not only your own personal circumstances. Thats whats called Patriotism!

<font color="blue">It's patriotic to pay more taxes? Man I'll never figure out your thought process /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I guess your just jealous of anybody who has a little bit of money. </font color>

The Inheritance Tax is only paid on the money that has not already been salted away. Its always based on the minimum.

<font color="blue">You don't know what you're talking about. </font color>

Would you notice the difference if you had only 2 million in your bank account instead of 5 million?

<font color="blue">I was talking about businesses and farms, not bank accounts. And no I don't think they should tax your bank account either.

Would the govt. notice if they had $2 million less. Besides it's not the govt.'s money. </font color>

I guess these poor souls will just have to tough it out with a smaller yacht. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="blue">What a foolish statement. In 1990 or so the govt. passed a "luxury tax" of 10% on large boats and luxury cars. Guess what happened. The rich stopped buying them and thousands of people were thrown out of work. The tax was soon repealed. </font color>

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
11-05-2003, 09:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's patriotic to pay more taxes? Man I'll never figure out your thought process <hr /></blockquote>

So its patriotic to give up your life to protect somebody else,s money but its un-patriotic for the people with money to pay their share?

How many rich people are in active duty?

Tell me, I would like to know.

Its funny that the Reps [ ie the rich and well off] are so against Govt interference until there is fighting to be done.
Why should I put meyself on the line to protect somebody else,s money, when they are not willing to do it themselves?

I say , the ones who have the most to lose [ and to gain] should be in the front line.
Will you ever see it happen? No chance.

The fact is , these guys sit on their yachts and think its great that the ordinary working man is so willing to sacrifice himself to protect THEIR interests.


As for money, I dont worship it like you guys seem to do .

It seems to me as a bit shallow to devote one,s life to the pursuit of something that is man made. A false prophet .

They say money is the root of all eveil.
If thats true, then the US is 'the Great Satan', as the Arabs call America.

There are more important things to life than the dollar.

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> They say money is the root of all eveil.
If thats true, then the US is 'the Great Satan', as the Arabs call America.<hr /></blockquote>

Real f**ing nice.

I'll send you a burka and a diaper to put on your little pointed head. That is, if you really want to be on the losing side of history.

Qtec
11-05-2003, 10:50 AM
Wally, I dont think all Americans are 'evil'.
I dont believe in the Devil.

What do you think other people, in other countries,who consider themselves as religious, feel when GW calls THEM 'evil'.[ Axis of evil- bad people etc]

Do you think they should or would react the way you just did??? { Gotcha /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]


Its all BS.
Thats my point.

Anyway, it aint what you say [ 'cos words are cheap], its what you do that counts.


Again. how many stock-brokers are on the front line?

As for losing, politicians should plan for the long term-ie, for our children,s children, instead of the next election.

Time will tell who the winner is , if there is one..

Q

[ if you cant take it , dont give it.]

eg8r
11-05-2003, 11:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So its patriotic to give up your life to protect somebody else,s money but its un-patriotic for the people with money to pay their share?
<hr /></blockquote> A fair share would be for every single person here in America to pay a flat tax of say 10% (15% would probably pass much easier). It does not get any fairer than that. If everyone pays the same percentage then it is fair. The guy making more money will pay in more but he is still paying 15%.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
What do you think other people, in other countries,who consider themselves as religious, feel when GW calls THEM 'evil'.[ Axis of evil- bad people etc]

<font color="blue">He's not referring to the "people". He's referring to the leaders. And he's right. Just like when Reagan tagged the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire". He was right too. </font color>

Do you think they should or would react the way you just did??? { Gotcha /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]


Its all BS.
Thats my point.

Anyway, it aint what you say [ 'cos words are cheap], its what you do that counts.


Again. how many stock-brokers are on the front line?

<font color="blue">I don't know. We have an all-volunteer army. </font color>

As for losing, politicians should plan for the long term-ie, for our children,s children, instead of the next election.

<font color="blue">They should but they don't. At least Dubya is fighting the war on terror instead of leaving the dirty work for his successor, like Clinton did. </font color>

Time will tell who the winner is , if there is one..

<font color="blue">USA is favored by 6 touchdowns. </font color>

Q

[ if you cant take it , dont give it.]

<font color="blue">Ok, if you promise to quit changing the subject. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

HOWARD
11-06-2003, 03:53 PM
Dear Qtec,

I usually do not involve myself in political discussions.

But your quote that the "they say money is the root of all
evil" ... I believe it comes from the Bible and it Says the
LOVE of money is the root of all evil.

I believe there is a difference.

Howard

Qtec
11-07-2003, 12:56 AM
I stand corrected Howard. It does say "love of".

Basically,IMO, it means that there is nothing wrong with making money just so long as you dont hurt others in the process.
Is it right to sell weapons to Govt's of countries {that can barely feed themselves} so that they can use them on their own citizens?

All buisnesses these days have no consience. Most would sell their own grandmother for a buck.

Capitalism is based on greed , its sad but true. The hypocritical thing is that the people who are in power, the ones who really make the desisions, can happily go to church on a Sunday and call themselves christians.

Q