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View Full Version : Ahhh 365 days left maybe the nightmare will end?



nAz
11-04-2003, 11:50 PM
II think he is a failure as a president. I wish he wasn't because for me it is not about rich or poor, dumb or smart, republican or Democrat it's about who can do the right job and i feel like he has let down people like myself who(while i did not vote for him)hoped that he could make a difference after he er uh um ehh... "won" the election.

He miss led the country about the reason for this war and he has not laid out an "exit strategy" for the us. I mean dam it tell us that were gonna be there for 10 + years and have permanent bases there tell us it is gonna be costly $ and live before we went in tell us that now.
He did not even finish up what every American wanted Afghanistan disarmed (it's starting to revert) and "Osama been forgotten" dead!
The economy how ever rosey some people might think it is has failed to recover the most important thing Jobs! How many Millions gone? 7 or 8?well maybe it will change in the coming months but i frankly can not see it happening especially with $87 Billion out the proverbial window.
DAMIT i though he was serious when he said he wanted to be the education president! he could have use %15 of that $87B to realize that dream and more!
oh and the Tax cuts yeah well we get that now but our grandchildren will be burden with the repercussion of that sound fiscal policy.

all right sorry i am all over the place on this but... 365 day left and i can not think of a single reason to keep him... except maybe what other @#&%*!# idiot will replace him! WTF!

Qtec
11-05-2003, 05:13 AM
The Hitch hiker,s Guide . Great book.LOL

'Whats the answer to life, the universe and everything'.

[ QUOTE ]
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western arm of the Galaxy lies a small and unregarded yellow sun.
Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles in an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descend life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea <hr /></blockquote>




HaHaHa

Q

eg8r
11-05-2003, 06:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
He miss led the country about the reason for this war and he has not laid out an "exit strategy" for the us. I mean dam it tell us that were gonna be there for 10 + years and have permanent bases there tell us it is gonna be costly $ and live before we went in tell us that now.
<hr /></blockquote> IIRC, our stay in Iraq and the costs were as clear as they can be...W said this would not be over right away, and it would be expensive. I wonder if the President received as much grief over length of stay after WWII and we were in Germany and Japan?

[ QUOTE ]
The economy how ever rosey some people might think it is has failed to recover the most important thing Jobs! <hr /></blockquote> Naz, I like you alot, but I have to be honest, this statement is pure ignorance. It is common knowledge amongst economists that jobs are the LAST thing to come around. If sales are not up, how do you think the businesses can afford to hire someone? If sales are not up, then that means production is still down. If production is down, why would a company hire another employee to build something? If you have been reading some of the financial news you will notice that the "new" unemployment numbers have been decreasing (not tremendously) and that is a good sign that less people are being laid off. The last part is bringing on new people. Give it a little time.

[ QUOTE ]
i though he was serious when he said he wanted to be the education president! he could have use %15 of that $87B to realize that dream and more!
oh and the Tax cuts yeah well we get that now but our grandchildren will be burden with the repercussion of that sound fiscal policy.
<hr /></blockquote> As far as education goes, you are right, very little has been done. I am not making excuses but I don't think Bush had thought about 9/11 and the next 2 wars when he was campainging. Not that he could have changed the education anyways. If he really wanted to do a good thing for education, he would disband all the teachers unions. Those are the worst thing for education. Just look at Miami and the union down there, more corruption than the mafia. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Take a look at Atlanta...This is the most expensive area in nation as far as education goes. If I remember correctly, it costs about 10k per child to go to public schools there (the rest of the country averages around 4-5k per year). Can you guess where Atlanta is ranked...Real close to the bottom. Why is this? There is more money being pumped into that school system, those kids have more advantages than the majority of the rest of the nation, yet they still are not doing any better. MONEY is not the problem with education. Unions are the problem with education. Any reason why a union president needs to make all that money, when a teacher in Florida starts out making 24k a year. What a joke. 24k is horrible pay. I have a buddy that is a music teacher. He put in 5 years of schooling, and he gets 28k a year because he teaches marching band and choir and those give him bonuses. 28k for a 5 year degree is laughable at best. However, some of the county administration (who screw everything up anyways) make 3 times to 4 times as much. GWB cannot solve these issues, that is up to your state. It might be a good time to revisit what the Federal government is responsible for and what the State and local governments are responsible for and then see if who you voted for on the local level is doing his part instead of blaming W for all the problems.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 07:32 AM
Better suck it up nazee. Ain't nobody on the Dem side gonna beat him.

Heck, Kentucky elected a Republican governor for the first time since the 60's /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Singlemalt
11-05-2003, 08:46 AM
Well, about time ole Kentucky came around.

Qtec
11-05-2003, 09:16 AM
Unions are essential. There are the only voice the ordinary worker has. This is the reason why employers are against unions. It costs them money. They might have to pay their workers a fair wage.

Fact is, the workers have all the power, they just dont realise it.

A general strike, at this time , would bring the Govt to a halt. Goodbye GW.

Imagine, no supply's to Iraq, no pay for the soldiers, no money coming in to the Govt.

How long do you think GW would last in such a situation?

HaHa.
Tell me, where is the power?


You aint got nothing if the people dont support you. I dont care how loud you can shout.


Q

eg8r
11-05-2003, 11:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Unions are essential. There are the only voice the ordinary worker has. This is the reason why employers are against unions. It costs them money. They might have to pay their workers a fair wage.

Fact is, the workers have all the power, they just dont realise it.

A general strike, at this time , would bring the Govt to a halt. Goodbye GW.

Imagine, no supply's to Iraq, no pay for the soldiers, no money coming in to the Govt.

How long do you think GW would last in such a situation?
<hr /></blockquote> Are you on purpose changing the subject. I guess you had nothing to say on the subject of education. Was that too tough a subject for you? Instead you jump back to the war with Iraq which has nothing to do with the teachers union.

Q, if you don't know what you are talking about, then just say it. Don't bounce around just to see yourself on the net.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2003, 11:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>
...Are you on purpose changing the subject. ...<hr /></blockquote>

You read my mind. I just posted the same thing. He can't logically defend his position so he just goes on to the next thing /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

heater451
11-05-2003, 05:36 PM
(Hey, Ed, how's it going?)

Just to throw another opinion in. . . .<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>
The economy how ever rosey some people might think it is has failed to recover the most important thing Jobs! <hr /></blockquote> Naz, I like you alot, but I have to be honest, this statement is pure ignorance. It is common knowledge amongst economists that jobs are the LAST thing to come around. If sales are not up, how do you think the businesses can afford to hire someone?<hr /></blockquote>If people don't have jobs, how can they afford to buy goods?<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>If sales are not up, then that means production is still down. If production is down, why would a company hire another employee to build something?<hr /></blockquote>Although I can't prove that "Production" is up or down, I believe that production continues at the pace allowed by 'in-place' processes, with the minimum necessary people--or with fewer people, who work more hours (and do so happily, for fear of losing their jobs).

Opening another can of worms, a company can still show a fiscal gain by reducing their overhead (read: fire employees), so that it outweighs a lack in sales, and the stockholders are happy. This is a practice that appears to be classic denial, but it also comes at the expense of the worker.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>If you have been reading some of the financial news you will notice that the "new" unemployment numbers have been decreasing (not tremendously) and that is a good sign that less people are being laid off.<hr /></blockquote>This may be due to there being no one left to lay off!<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>The last part is bringing on new people. Give it a little time<hr /></blockquote>Time is on te side of the corporations, not the individual. A company could afford to lose some profits, while trying to keep money flowing in the system, but a worker can't afford to consume "wants", when he barely has enough money to cover his "needs".---Oh, and I believe that companies would be able to retain more workers, at the expense of an executive or two. Besides, the rate of pay for a high executive should allow him/her to survive longer, if employment isn't forthcoming, over someone who only pulls $10-30/hr.



===============================

nAz
11-05-2003, 06:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> The Hitch hiker,s Guide . Great book.LOL

'Whats the answer to life, the universe and everything'.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western arm of the Galaxy lies a small and unregarded yellow sun.
Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles in an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descend life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea <hr /></blockquote>
HaHaHa
Q <hr /></blockquote>

Ya it is a great book(s). think it is time for me to read it again.

nAz
11-05-2003, 07:12 PM
"IIRC, "IIRC, our stay in Iraq and the costs were as clear as they can be...W said this would not be over right away, and it would be expensive. I wonder if the President received as much grief over length of stay after WWII and we were in Germany and Japan?"

Bush had nothing to do with WW2 /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif No but those countries actually attack us on different fronts unlike Iraq there is proof of their intent towards us. Do not get me wrong if i was a member of congress i would vote to aid that country except that i would make at least half of it into loans, not just give away. Still with all the "smart people" he surrounds himself with he could have told;d the American public about the cost of this war before we got into it, then again if he did that we probably wouldn't be there now.

Quote eg8r "Naz, I like you alot,"
*cough* Fag *cough* /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif j/k
I like you too dude and i understand about the jobs coming later on like i wrote before...
"well maybe it will change in the coming months but i frankly can not see it happening especially with $87 Billion out the proverbial window."
I still do not think it will happen and if it does i think it will be such a small number of jobs that it will not help the President get reelected. again i hope I am so wrong about this.

About the education thing well i tend to agree with you about the union thingy, it can (does) bog down the systems. However when i talk about how he is supposed to be the education Prez, i do not just mean throwing money at a bottomless pit, i mean he should use all his political clout and twist the arms of both parties to come up with a reasonable plan to be sure that this countries children are thought properly how to read write and do basic arithmetic.
Dude i know it is not easy but i think if i was Prez (god no Barbara would flip out /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )I would surround myself with the best, brightest and realistic people i could find to help me solve some of these problems. does not look like he has done that.

nAz
11-05-2003, 07:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> (Hey, Ed, how's it going?)

Just to throw another opinion in. . . .<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>
The economy how ever rosey some people might think it is has failed to recover the most important thing Jobs! <hr /></blockquote> Naz, I like you alot, but I have to be honest, this statement is pure ignorance. It is common knowledge amongst economists that jobs are the LAST thing to come around. If sales are not up, how do you think the businesses can afford to hire someone?<hr /></blockquote>If people don't have jobs, how can they afford to buy goods?<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>If sales are not up, then that means production is still down. If production is down, why would a company hire another employee to build something?<hr /></blockquote>Although I can't prove that "Production" is up or down, I believe that production continues at the pace allowed by 'in-place' processes, with the minimum necessary people--or with fewer people, who work more hours (and do so happily, for fear of losing their jobs).

Opening another can of worms, a company can still show a fiscal gain by reducing their overhead (read: fire employees), so that it outweighs a lack in sales, and the stockholders are happy. This is a practice that appears to be classic denial, but it also comes at the expense of the worker.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>If you have been reading some of the financial news you will notice that the "new" unemployment numbers have been decreasing (not tremendously) and that is a good sign that less people are being laid off.<hr /></blockquote>This may be due to there being no one left to lay off!<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>The last part is bringing on new people. Give it a little time<hr /></blockquote>Time is on te side of the corporations, not the individual. A company could afford to lose some profits, while trying to keep money flowing in the system, but a worker can't afford to consume "wants", when he barely has enough money to cover his "needs".---Oh, and I believe that companies would be able to retain more workers, at the expense of an executive or two. Besides, the rate of pay for a high executive should allow him/her to survive longer, if employment isn't forthcoming, over someone who only pulls $10-30/hr.



=============================== <hr /></blockquote>

heater those are some excellent points you have made there.

Qtec
11-06-2003, 02:29 AM
the facts,

[ QUOTE ]
EDUCATION SPENDING AND FUNDING
From 1992 through 2001, Georgia increased funding of the public education system* at a higher rate than any other state, according to a report released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.
GROWTH IN FUNDING, 1992-2001:
1. Georgia............123%
2. Nevada............ 117%
3. California..........92%
4. Massachusetts...... 91%
5. South Carolina......75%
.. United States......103%
SPENDING PER PUPIL, 2001:
1. New York............ $10,922
2. New Jersey.......... $10,893
3. Washington, D.C..... $10,852
4. Connecticut.......... $9,236
5. Alaska................$9,165
6. Georgia.............. $6,909
.. United States........ $7,284
* Includes public school systems from pre-kindergarten through 12th grade and vocational education, co-curricular, community service, and adult education programs.
Source: U.S. Census Bureau
/ ROB SMOAK / Staff

<hr /></blockquote>

Fact. The pop. of Altlanta has risen by almost 30% in the last 15 years.



You yourself complain that teachers dont earn enough. Atlanta does something about it and you still complain. They recognize that they have to pay the money to attract the best teachers.

They are also building more schools than anybody else.

I think they are on the right track.

Q

eg8r
11-06-2003, 06:32 AM
Go back and get all the facts, not just the facts that support your "theory"....

[ QUOTE ]
You yourself complain that teachers dont earn enough. Atlanta does something about it and you still complain. They recognize that they have to pay the money to attract the best teachers.

They are also building more schools than anybody else.

I think they are on the right track.
<hr /></blockquote> And there is where the numbers you have provided don't mean squat. The students coming out of Atlanta are consistently ranked near the bottom. Money does not teach kids, new computers do not teach kids, new facilities do not teach kids, etc. Teachers that want to teach, teach kids. There is no more to it. The problem with the teachers today, and I am speaking in very general terms, is that they don't care about teaching, they care about picking up a paycheck and being PC.

Here is a good example...At Dr. Phillips High School, the Young Republicans wanted to build a float that would portray the falling of the Saddam statue. The school principal and some of the teachers, thought the float would be offensive to some and tried to block the float from the parade. Now, what exactly is being taught to the kids? Is this the education that 5k/child/year is supposed to pay for? Why aren't those teachers spending more time with the students teaching history than trying to block students from re-enacting it. The only people that would be offended would be those that supported Saddam. Hello!!!! Who cares about those very few minute people. Saddam was a dictator and the country is better with him gone.

Q, you can go look at whatever statistics you want (provided you even know what you are reading) and I am sure you will be able to find some that defend your position that more money is the only way, but the final statistic you need to look at is the quality of the graduated student. Atlanta students just are not there, and they cost more money than any other student in the nation. The quality of the teaching is not there.

It is more important for some teachers in East Liverpool, Ohio to graduate students than to actually teach these students. I spent an entire summer in that hell (sell educational stuff and tutor those in need) and after speaking with tons of teachers, I learned one thing...per the teachers, those kids just don't want to be in school and it would really diminish their self-esteem if we were to fail them and continue holding them back. What a load of crap, and you can bet I told them that also. If you continue to herd kids through school without the requirement of actually learning anything, then what are you really teaching them?

Give these kids a voucher and let the parents send them to a school that will teach their child instead of herd them.

eg8r

eg8r
11-06-2003, 06:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Bush had nothing to do with WW2 No but those countries actually attack us on different fronts unlike Iraq there is proof of their intent towards us. Do not get me wrong if i was a member of congress i would vote to aid that country except that i would make at least half of it into loans, not just give away. Still with all the "smart people" he surrounds himself with he could have told;d the American public about the cost of this war before we got into it, then again if he did that we probably wouldn't be there now.
<hr /></blockquote> I did not say he had anything to do with WWII, I was making a point that never before is there an example of a President giving finite sums. As far as Bush coming out and telling you the cost of the war...How in the world do you think he could come up with that number? Give me a break...He said it would cost a lot and by gawd, $87 Billion is a lot (not to mention all that was spend prior to the 87 and what will be asked of after the 87 is spent). I don't think you understand the breakdown of the money...there is no reason for half of the 87 to be a loan, since the majority of it is for the US. However, there is no reason why the 20 Billion to Iraq and Ashcanistan should not be a loan. This would be a great time to loan them money, instead Bush is giving a gift (I hate this). It would however be tough to give Iraq a loan, when we are demanding all other countries release all debt owed by Iraq.

[ QUOTE ]
Dude i know it is not easy but i think if i was Prez (god no Barbara would flip out )I would surround myself with the best, brightest and realistic people i could find to help me solve some of these problems. does not look like he has done that.
<hr /></blockquote> I believe Bush has tried to do that...The best, brightest and realistic people are sometimes viewed differently by different people.

eg8r &lt;~~~Does not think Barbara will vote for Naz. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r
11-06-2003, 06:50 AM
What's up buddy. I should be back to Atlanta in Feb (more training, ughhh).

[ QUOTE ]
If people don't have jobs, how can they afford to buy goods? <hr /></blockquote> Welfare, unemployment, etc. All the same ways they have been buying goods. I am referring to necessities.

[ QUOTE ]
Although I can't prove that "Production" is up or down, I believe that production continues at the pace allowed by 'in-place' processes, with the minimum necessary people--or with fewer people, who work more hours (and do so happily, for fear of losing their jobs). <font color="blue"> Been there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif I work plenty of OT. I am not really in fear of losing my job, but it could happen at any moment. </font color>

Opening another can of worms, a company can still show a fiscal gain by reducing their overhead (read: fire employees), so that it outweighs a lack in sales, and the stockholders are happy. This is a practice that appears to be classic denial, but it also comes at the expense of the worker. <font color="blue"> I think a lot of this is moot during a recovery (if we are in one). </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
This may be due to there being no one left to lay off! <hr /></blockquote> Nah, we are still working. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Time is on te side of the corporations, not the individual. A company could afford to lose some profits, while trying to keep money flowing in the system, but a worker can't afford to consume "wants", when he barely has enough money to cover his "needs".---Oh, and I believe that companies would be able to retain more workers, at the expense of an executive or two. Besides, the rate of pay for a high executive should allow him/her to survive longer, if employment isn't forthcoming, over someone who only pulls $10-30/hr.
<hr /></blockquote> I thought it was hilarious when Daimler and Chrysler merged, and the Daimler execs got to see the pay difference between the head of Chrysler and his employees. Executives get paid extraordinary amounts of money and there is no need for it. I really think it is way overboard, however, if the company can survive and continue to do business, then it is no ones business what they make. The only time this becomes an issue is when the company is not doing well...then all the naysayers come out and talk about execs pay. Well that seems to be a bit late. When a company is doing fine, no one gripes over pay (except the lower workers who might be underpaid anyways).

eg8r

Qtec
11-06-2003, 09:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
However, there is no reason why the 20 Billion to Iraq and Ashcanistan should not be a loan. <hr /></blockquote>

If it was a loan, then it would be Iraqi money.

This way it disappears into the pot only to suface again when some Boeing exec throws another $5000 down in a craps game in Vegas, etc. HaHaHaha

Q

eg8r
11-06-2003, 09:23 AM
Blah, Blah, Blah. You are a tired old broken record.


eg8r

Keith Talent
11-06-2003, 03:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> If you continue to herd kids through school without the requirement of actually learning anything, then what are you really teaching them?

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe that they can cruise through the Education Department of any land-grant institution and come up with stuff like the bigwigs in the NYC Ed Board did, here, justifying their new discipline code:

"so that everyone understands how serious we all are in making schools that is safe for student's body's. Schools that is safe for students' feelings, And schools that are safe for student's ideas."

For my part, I'll never forget my fourth-grade teacher, who called like-meaning words smileys. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
11-07-2003, 12:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
"so that everyone understands how serious we all are in making schools that is safe for student's body's. Schools that is safe for students' feelings, And schools that are safe for student's ideas."
<hr /></blockquote>


That are ridiculous! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

nAz
11-02-2004, 02:28 PM
It's almost over!