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Thread: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

  1. #11

    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    LMAO...yeah, if he does that, he's really gotta pay for it, putting the country at risk like that, who knows what he might catch, LOL.

    It's funny how when they asked Dick Cheney, he just went into his usual Nuclear, attack, terrorist, 09/11 BS...Never before has an administration gotten so much leeway from one moment in time, they think 9/11 gave them the right to do anything they want, and have a blanket excuse...they're depending on fear, but they better watch out, we Americans have short attention spans, lol, we're getting tired of all this fear BS. We're ready for the popcorn and a coke...

    Gayle in Md.

  2. #12
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    Re: The NSA

    Ummm...
    The NSA have been spying on Americans (and everybody else) since they came into existence.
    That is their job.
    If you have nothing to hide, then you should be no problem [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

    Jon~*~Has nothing to hide~*~

  3. #13
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    Re: The NSA

    <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> Ummm...
    The NSA have been spying on Americans (and everybody else) since they came into existence.
    That is their job.
    If you have nothing to hide, then you should be no problem [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

    Jon~*~Has nothing to hide~*~ <hr /></blockquote>

    Jon,

    This is one republican who disagrees with you. I don't want anyone spying on me, especially when I pay their salary. I may have plenty to hide and if they can catch me by legal means, then more power to them.

    This abuse of the constitution started way back in Lincoln's term of office and has been abused by more presidents than Clinton has girlfriends.

    Deeman

  4. #14

    Re: The NSA

    Whether or not one has anything to hide, is not the issue, IMO. The FISA laws were concieved as a check and balance, if you will, an insurance, that government, even the president, could not spy on its citizens, without resonable cause, and that the issue of National Security, could not be used as a cover for arbitrarily spying on American Citizens.

    This administration, and it's supporters, have continuously used such Politics as usual and What else is new? apathetic response to each infraction of our laws and Constitution, just as you have in your responses. Perhaps some Americans do not see, or care, about our hard bought protections of privacy, and freedom of speech. I am not one who shares your apathy regarding such infractions as giving false testimony to our Congress and Senate regarding the need to send our troops to war, outing CIA Operatives in time of war, and spying on Americans, illegally.

    Each of these unlawful criminal acts, committed by the Bush administration, are not only dangerous, but chip away at our own freedom. This is more than ironic, when one considers that we have lost over two thousand troops, and thousands more injured, and killed, in the supposed effort to spread freedom and democracy on the other side of the world.

    Unless the Bush Administration reveals to the American Public, atleast through our representatives, the reasons for each unlawful, unchecked, surveillance, and the proof that the need to do so has saved lives, thwarted the enemy, and was used only for the means of keeping Americans safe, we will never know the full extent to which this administration has abused power, obstructed justice, and assaulted our right to freedom and privacy, under the Constitution, and under the laws of our country. We need only review world history to understand the dangerous implications involved in how this administration operates, and the threat it poses here on our own shores.

    Gayle in Md.

  5. #15
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    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    Instead of all the ranting, let's hear the stats. How many people have been abused and how many lives have been saved as a result of all this alleged abuse to the American people? Does anyone actually know the answer to this or is it all just ranting?

    I think we all know that the problem in stopping terrorist crimes is in how to get the information quick enough in order to stop them before they occur. Terrorists weren't e-mailing each other 20 years ago. Now they are. If we don't keep up, we are the ones who will be hurt in the end.

    While we're out there protecting our rights to privacy, the terrorists are out there taking advantage of it and planning our destruction.

    King George, my ass...name-calling is such BS.

    In THEORY we should all be free. In THEORY, there should be no wars. In THEORY, there should be no hate. Hey, that ain't the way of the world. Get over it.


    Fran


  6. #16

    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    Fran,
    The plans of the terrorists should not lead to the loss of our freedom and privacy. If it does, then haven't they accomplished pricisely what the president claims to be their intention? Doesn't he say over and over they hate us for our freedom?

    The president behaves as though he is a King, hence the pun. Sorry if that annoys you, it wasn't meant as a personal affront, and you could find the same analogy in much of what is being written in our newspapers currently, in fact one of our representatives, Feingold, I believe, said this week, "He's not a King"

    Maybe you are comfortable with "Trusting" unchecked surveillance of Americans by this president. I think you should realize, that over half of us do not trust him. Goals do not always justify means.

    BTW, the "Stats" you refer to, are precisely what I am calling for, and precisely what Bush doesn't want to reveal. He just wants blanket, unchecked authority. This isn't sup[posed to be a dictatorship, although it looks more and more like one everyday.

    Gayle in Md.

  7. #17
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    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    Gayle this just proves how dumb George is, in the day of the internet he could email the judge with the request for wire tapping and recieve it in 2 minutes. All it would take is 3 shifts of Judges working around the clock to handle the writs.####

  8. #18
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    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    What's your alternative solution, Gayle? Wait until they ditry bomb us and then give a hundred speeches as to how we're not going to take it anymore? Or maybe fight among ourselves again about how the government failed in preventing the attack?

    I'd like to hear your ideas for preventitive action since according to you, any action we take seems to be violating one of our rights.

    What actions do you propose?

    Fran

  9. #19

    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    LOL [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It's bad enough what he does, then he follows up with it with a right in your face, angry outburst, like, "How dare you question the King," response. Then Dick Cheney follows up with More Mushroom Cloud Threats. I don't think what we are doing in Iraq will have any effect on whether or not we end up facing a Mushroom Cloud. They can do all the spying they need to do, just as effectively by staying in the bounds of the law. If the FISA court needs some changes made to it, they can go to Congress, and have emergency changes made immediately. Bush came out there and shamed the New York Times for their story, when the story did not give away anything other than the fact that he is breaking the law. Terrorists already knew we do everything possible to spy on them. Just another smoke screen, that's their forte'.

    Gayle in Md.

  10. #20

    Re: King George, FISA & the 4th Amendment

    Fran,
    He has all the tools he needs to do all the spying he feels necessary, within the laws. The FISA law does not stand in his way. Your question to me does not apply. I am not suggesting that we don't perform surveillance activities, only the the president do so legally, and if there is some glitch in that process which holds him up, he is supposed to go to Congress and change or alter the process, not just forge ahead in secret, with no accounting for justification. Would you want a Democratic President to be able to spy on us in secret, with no accountability for his actions? That is what the FISA laws were supposed to protect us from.

    George Bush recieved the Memo, entitled, "bin Laden determined to attack the United States." a month before 9/11, was he able to prevent the attack? What preventative results did we get from knowing in advance in that case?

    I would like to see him address all the failures which enabled the terrorists to attack us, like having a unified list of enemies circulated to all our law enforcement people, and at all our ports of entry, and at every airline check in, which we still don't have! Tightening up our Illegal Immigration laws, neglected Protecting our Chemical and Nuclear facilities, Neglected expanding our covert operations around the world, Improving our bomb detection abilities. Fine Tuning our Federal Emergency Response and Homeland Security Response capabilities. I can think of loads of things, which this administration has failed to address which threatens our safety much more than fighting a War in Iraq, which even if it does provide a long range improvment making the Arab world safer, it's a long shot, the results of which would not protect us from terror attacks, and without immediate protection against what happened on 9/11, IMO. I don't think it was particularly efficacious to get sidetracked into spreading freedom in the Arab world at a time when we should have been focussed on these other things, and getting bin Laden. I hardly thing that the ability to spy in secret, and without accountability, is the cornerstone in protecting us against another attack. No one is suggesting that he, or our government cease surveillance activities.

    Gayle in Md,

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