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Thread: 3 Piece Cues.

  1. #31
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    I measured the wts and balances of cues using my 4 modyfyd butts (4" mini-butt, 7" mini-butt, 18-13/16" butt-pce, 20" butt-pce) and various non-modyfyd butts.

    (A29a) An untouched 19.50oz 13mm Eliminator -- this had a balance point 18-1/8" from the butt (shaft iz 29" long, cue iz 58" long)(A29a iz a 20oz Eliminator, it haz a very small wt-bolt in the very end of the butt, actual wt iz 19.50oz koz 0.45oz rubber bumper haz been remooved).
    (A29b) An untouched 17.45oz Eliminator -- this had a balance point 2-5/8" closer to the qtip than A29a (shaft iz 29" long, cue iz 58" long)(A29b iz an 18oz Eliminator, it haznt got a wt-bolt, actual wt iz 17.45oz koz 0.45oz rubber bumper haz been remooved).
    (A29-10). I hav thinned some of my 29" shafts down from 13mm to 10mm (and even 9mm) for English Billiards, and the cue at mid-cue (ie at the joint here), iz too thin, too whippy (even for piddly little 2-1/15" balls).


    (B4) One of my 2pce modyfyd Eliminators (wt = 21.25oz) -- this had a balance point 1/4" closer to the qtip than A1.
    [Aktually this iz a 3pce but the third pce iz a mini-butt 4" long, and the shaft-pce that I uze with this haz had 3" cut off it].
    (B7) [And I hav a 2nd mini-butt which iz 7" long which givs me another range of options, which i ignore here].
    (B9) [And I hav a 3rd mini-butt which iz 9" long which givs me another range of options, which i ignore here].


    (C20g) My goanna 3pce (wt = 21.47oz)(goanna butt-pce = 20") -- this had a balance point 1-3/8" closer to the qtip than A29a (when uzing a thin shaft) and 2-1/8" (when uzing a thick shaft).
    (C20b) My bullant 3pce (wt = 21.30oz)(bullant butt-pce = 18-13/16") -- this had a balance point 1-5/8" closer to the qtip than A29a (when uzing a thin shaft) and 2-1/4" (when uzing a thick shaft).

    Hencely my 3pce cues C20g and C20b are not very noze-heavy, even tho their thickness at 1/3rd point (0.850") iz the same
    az the thickness of (A13a) and (A13b) at their 1/2 point. In fakt the balances of my 3pce cues are similar to (A29b).

    But balance and noze-heavyness are two separate things.
    A cue can hav a balance-point nearer the butt than some other cue, and yet be more noze-heavy than that other cue, if it iz heavyer. Koz, noze-heavyness iz a combination of wt and balance. Noze-heavyness iz in effect the wt supported by your bridge. Most of the feel of noze-heavyness iz felt by your bridge.

    But strangely your grip kan allso feel noze-heavyness (I think).
    But praps it karnt. Praps a blind-test would show that your grip iz blind to noze-heavyness. This seems more logical. Yet, the grip knows something. Praps the grip feels the bridge-drag when u feather back and forward. Ok, what if u wore a Teflon bridge-glove to reduce drag, would that fool your grip. I might look into this. In fakt reducing bridge-drag might also fool your bridge.

    I know that in the past I hav played with very noze-heavy cues, and I hadta wear a cloth-Band-Aid on my bridge-thumb to
    stop my thumb from rubbing raw. The Band-Aid woz needed to protect my skin, but at the same time it greatly reduced bridge-drag, and this somehow made the cue feel less noze-heavy. I might try it for my 3pce cues (not that I am in any danger of loozing skin).

    EXPERIMENT THAT ANYONE KAN DO AT HOME.
    Equipment. U need (1) one player, (2) one blindfold (for player), (3) one very noze-heavy cue, and say 9 less nose-heavy cues, (4) a local anaesthetic (for player's bridgehand), (5) a cloth Band-Aid (for player's bridge thumb, to reduce cue-drag).
    Procedure Run 1. Blindfolded player iz handed 10 different cues and player feathers cues and advises if cues feel noze-heavy or a little or not.
    Procedure Run 2. Blindfolded player (with injected bridge-hand) iz handed 10 different cues and player feathers cues and advises if cues feel noze-heavy or a little or not.
    Procedure Run 3. Blindfolded player (with injected bridge-hand) iz handed 10 different cues and player feathers cues and advises if cues feel noze-heavy or a little or not. For the very noze-heavy cue, a cloth Band-Aid iz stuck onto the bridge-thumb (unbeknown to player).
    Procedure Run 4. Blindfolded player (with injected bridge-hand and band-aided bridge thumb) iz handed 10 different cues and player feathers cues and advises if cues feel noze-heavy or a little or not.
    Data. Draw xy graph of true balance and guessed balance (or mightbe an xyz graph).
    Report. Write report, and publish (after peer review).
    Acclaim. Awarded Nobel Prize for billiards. Tickertape parade. Speaking engagements. Star guest on oprah.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-30-2013 at 11:20 PM.

  2. #32
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    SYNOPSIS OF ELIMINATOR PROJEKT.
    A29-13. Kommie Socialist Marxist one-size-fits-all American pool cues are too thin in the middle (qtip= 13mm, shaft = 29", butt = 29").
    A29-10. I hav thinned some of my 13mm Eliminators down to 10mm (or even 9mm) for English Billiards, and the cue at mid-cue, ie at the joint, iz too thin, too whippy (even for piddly little 2-1/15" balls).

    B4. Kutting 4" off the tip, and adding 4" to the butt (uzing a 4" skrew-on mini-butt) in effect moovs the joint 4" up the cue (and inkreeces the thickness at mid-cue by approx 1/16").
    B9. Kutting 9" off the tip and adding a 9" mini-butt moovs the joint 9" up the cue (and inkreeces the thickness at mid-cue by over 1/8"). U kan get away with this with an Eliminator koz an Eliminator haz a lite-wt wood-to-wood 5/16-18 pin. A stalin-joint would be much too noze-heavy. The beauty of uzing a 9" mini-butt with a 29" butt iz that I kan uze my 20" shafts (I hav 5 of theze short shafts from my 3pce cues in C20)(20" + 29" + 9" = 58")(but here i karnt uze a small cue-case).
    B7. I hav a 7" mini-butt, but no suitable shaft (22" - 24")(i hav a 25"). Anyhow i wont bother with B7 if B4 iz stiffnuff.

    C20. Kutting 9" off the tip, and kutting 9" off the butt, and making a new 20" butt-pce givs u a tote-able 3pce cue (20" + 20" + 20" = 60")(while moving the joint 9" up the cue).
    Here in C20 (and in B9) u havta thin the qtip/shaft a little (better still, a lot, why not go for 11.75mm)(I uze 9mm to 10mm).
    To make a 20" butt-pce find some 1-1/4" hardwood dowell (& if a friend haz a cue-lathe send a Xmas card this year).
    Kutting 9" off an Eliminator butt (to make C20) givs me that 9" mini-butt that I need in B9 above. I turn the 9" offcut around and uze the 1/2" wt-bolt to skrew it into the end of a 29" full-butt.

    I hav a tournament in March. Tween now and then I will mess around with shaft tapers and wt-bolts etc etc and see whether
    B4 or B9 or C20 works best. I hope C20, so that my opponent kan watch me pull my didgeridoo cue out of my mini-ukulele case.

    In the meantime i will be thinking about silly poolplayers' love affair with AAA narrow-grained heavy stiff maple,
    when, if they uzed thicker joints, they would grow to appreciate the superiority of B grade wide-grained lite stiff maple, the best wood of all.
    Narrow AAA grade maple iz obligatory in the poolworld only koz silly-thin-anorexic-undersized 0.850" joints are mandatory.
    In the near future, mid-joints will be well over 0.875" (7/8") (i suggest 15/16"). And in the distant future (by virtue of having fatter cues) there will be no mid-joints, u will hav 1/3joints, koz poolcues will be 3pce (and cue-cases will be 20" not 29").

    And in the distant future 20" butt-pces will be plain bare wood.
    U will paint your own butt-pce dezign. Insekts, animals, native stuff, didgeridoo. Redezign and repaint every year if u like.
    Silly-expensive krappy-looking noze-heavy glued-in veneers and rings and wraps and points will be history.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-02-2014 at 01:12 AM.

  3. #33
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    Aktually I am getting better at drilling butts true-center (I hav developed some tricks).
    And I am getting better at drilling butts true-line -- mainly koz I hav shimmed the lathe (it iz/woz out of alignment).
    So I am going down to the timber supplies and getting me some 1-1/8" hardwood dowel for my next butt-pce effort.

    A 1-1/8" butt iz a bit thin by poolcue standards, but it iz popular for snooker cues.
    I prefer thick butts, but I am willing to try a thin butt. A thin butt-pce will help make a 3pce cue less noze-heavy (not that my 3pce cues are very noze-heavy). But there iz zero margin for error for the joint-pin, koz a 20" mid-pce iz 1-1/8" thick (ie after u kut 9" off a 29" butt).

    Drilling straight and true shoodnt be a worry for fellas with a good cue-lathe, but my (brother's) lathe iz a civil war relic.
    Up to now I hav been starting with a 1-1/4" dowel or a 1-3/8" dowel, and turning it down to size after installing the (slightly off-center and slightly off-line) pin. Turning-down allows u to get rid of (hide) some sloppy pin-work.

    Trix of the trade for drilling straight and true.
    Trick 1. A 1-1/8" butt-pce haz 2 ends. If u mess up, then hav a go at the other end.
    Trick 2. Instead of kutting a butt-pce at 20", kut at 22". If u install the pin straight and true then u kut 2" off the far end. If the pin aint straight and true then u kut 2" off the near end, and hav another go. Aktually u need only waste 1/2" eech time.
    Trick 3. Drill-out the bad hole with a 1/2" drill, and glue-in some 1/2" hardwood dowel (uze 5 minute araldite), and try again.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-04-2014 at 05:12 AM.

  4. #34
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    I DID IT -- I MADE THE 3PCE CUE THAT WILL DOMINATE THE 2014 BILLIARDS.
    The 1-1/8" hardwood dowel worked great. I managed to drill and tap a fairly true hole for the 14gauge 1/4"OD 10tpi 3-1/2" long skrew/pin for Joint 2. I uzed a new trick to help drill true-center.

    Trick 4. Start the hole by drilling in a short distance (say 3/8"), uzing an undersized drill (say 1/8"). If the hole iz off-center, uze a spike or nail to make 3 or 4 angled punched holes on the korrekt side of the off-center hole to in-effekt widen the hole. And allso drive the spike down into the bottom of the hole (on that same side) on a slight angle. Then when u continue drilling the drill will follow the widening and it will "true-up" the needed 1/64" (or whatever). The amount of effort uzing the spike will be based on the needed amount of trueing.

    Trick 5. Trick 4 helps u to drill true-center, which iz paramount. But it duznt help u to get true-line, true-line depends on other things. But true-line iznt very kritickal. U kan overkum a bad true-line later. Koz, later, all u need to do iz to sand the joint-face of the butt-pce so that the mid-pce and butt-pce giv a straight line when joined tightly. U check for straightness by rolling on the table. Mark the butt-pce to identify (remind u) which side (of the face) needs sanding.

    Trick 6. Rubbing pencil lead on the face of the mid-pce will hi-lite the offending high-spots on the face of the butt-pce. Its an old blueprinting trick (or in this case blackprinting). Attacking the high-spots will gradually achieve a nice snug fit (in addition to achieving the needed straightness). Cuesmiths with a proper cue-lathe wont need to read any of this stuff.

    Trick 7. Cue straightness (at Joint 2) will depend on how the two faces meet (rather than depend on the true-line of the pin). The threaded wood yields. But it helps (the yielding) if u file away the skrew threads on the pin for say 1/2" near mid-pt.

    Trick 8. When filing the pin (i uze an angle-grinder) i go a bit deeper and thin-down the pin allso. This weakens the pin but I think it allows the pin to bend a bit (but praps it duznt bend az much az i think).

    Trick 9. In fakt what I do iz I grind 4 flats in the pin, to form a squaring. I hav a home-made spanner made of thin steel with a square opening that fits the squaring. Thusly I kan uze the (thin) spanner to hold the pin (if wanted) when skrewing the butt-pce on or off.

    The butt-pce iz 1-1/8" dia from start to finish. This uniform thickness feels good. And i like the thinness.
    The dowel retains its nice faktry-polish finish (not important). When i turn down 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" dowel i get an oval diameter, which i kan feel (in my grip). I guess that the ovalness iz due to the varying hardness due to the grain. I uze an angle-grinder with a flappy sandpaper wheel, and take light kuts, but the grain wins anyhow.

    Anyhow, the 3pce modyfyd Eliminator plays unbeleevably good.
    The new butt-pce woz 24" long, koz i started off by kutting a 48" hardwood (gumtree) dowel in half (kost woz $8, ie $4 per half). This played great, but i hadta kut it downta 21-3/8" to fit my mini-cue-bag. Later i might kut it downta 20" (there aint no hurry).

    The length iz 60-7/8", and wt iz 19.54oz, and balance iz 23-1/8" (37-3/4").
    But this depends on which of my 5 shaft-piece's i uze, and which of my 3 mid-pieces. And i now hav 6 butt-pieces, of different thicknesses and wts. Unfortunately, koz i hadta "blackprint" the joint-face of the new (1-1/8") butt-pce to suite one of my 3 mid-pieces (i choze the shortest one), i don't actually hav the luxury of a choice here (pity). I think that 58" and 21oz would hit even better (i would win by an even bigger margin). But a long cue haz advantages (on a 12' table), and i don't want a wt-bolt (virgin-pristine wood iz best).
    mac.
    Kan hardly wait for the billiards season to begin. Thank u Mr Eliminator. And thank u Kommie Kues.
    Nextly i havta think of an indigenous motif for painting onto my didgeridoo cue (butt-pce). I will show pix when finished.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-04-2014 at 05:11 AM.

  5. #35
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    OK I UZE MY NEW (No6 of 6) BUTT-PCE WITH MY SHORTEST (No1 of 3) MID-PCE, BUT WHICH SHAFT-PCE SHOOD I UZE.
    I hav 5 shaft-pieces eech approx 20" long, No1 iz thinnest, throo to No5 which iz thickest. I uzed a circle-guide to help mark eech shaft-pce at the 13.7mm thickness point -- the closer to the tip then the stiffer the shaft-pce.
    I like No4 best -- it haz more deflection than 1 2 & 3 (but not too much) -- but it iz lively'nuff and very konsistant without being too stiff. Qtip iz 9.7mm.

    FHP & BHP & PARALLEL OFFSET.
    The No4 shaft haz a friendly response to my favorit types of fronthandpivot and backhandpivot, ie when wanting english. It givs a natural feel -- the qball seems to know what u want. In fakt this morning I woz experimenting with parallel offset aiming/english -- this might help.

    COLIN COLENSO CHANGES HIZ BRIDGE-PIVOT LENGTH TO SUIT THE BEDKLOTH.
    I am thinking that if Colin had the choice of 5 shafts with different deflections then he would be able to change shaft rather than change bridge-length.

    I hav 2 partly-modyfyd (29") shafts that I will further kut-down and further taper (in the next week or two)
    to make extra (20") shaft-pieces for my 3pce cues. I will make theze similar to shaft-pce No4 -- but not too similar, I want a bit of choice (but I guess that dissimilarity will kum naturally anyhow). And I hav 5 pristine Eliminator shafts, but I wont touch theze till much later.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-04-2014 at 05:29 PM.

  6. #36
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    A player has to get to the hall with his equipment so i designed a 4 piece cue.It is easier to take on the subway and a person can use it as a club.
    the joints i used were titanium.
    A great showpiece and places well.
    Same engineering used on paddle wheelers.
    Hondo>03-09-11.Thread 600 "Tangled with charley"
    STOLEN VALOR ACT-
    Pretenders,Liars,Frauds.

  7. #37
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    Gday Johnny.
    U dezigned and made a 4pce cue (club) yourself????? Pray tell me more.
    What are the joints exaktly. Lengths and weights of pieces. Qtip size. Taper. Balance.

    Titanium pins are a good idea. SG iz 4.5 compared to stainless 7.6 (or even 8.0).
    But i reckon that aluminium would be better -- SG 2.6 -- (especially in the 3/8" pins where strength aint an issue).
    And magnesium pins would be best -- SG 1.74 -- (Hitler made magnesium VW engines).
    Praps beryllium iz a chance -- SG 1.84.
    For the subway i would go for lead -- SG 11.34.

    Are the joints 3/8" 10tpi radials?? With radials the bursting force mandates collars (heavy heavy), the thread profile pushes out more.

    Liberty Paddle Wheeler engineering sounds klunky. I would upgrade to Kommie Traktor Axle engineering.

    Lemmeseenow. Four pieces -- eech would be 15" -- compared to three 20" pieces. I guess u might be able to conceal a 4pce if in a soft cue-case. But i reckon a 4pce wouldn't play very well.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-06-2014 at 12:34 AM.

  8. #38
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    THERE ARE TWO WAYS I KOOD MAKE A 4PCE CUE.

    PLAN A. I kood modyfy a 58" Eliminator by kutting the shaft in two, and kutting the butt in two, to giv four 14-1/2" pieces.
    But then i would havta make a homemade joint in the shaft (Joint1), and a homemade joint would be unlikely to be satisfaktry here. A homemade joint would be ok midway along the butt (ie Joint3). My homemade joints are a woodtowood, flat-face joint uzing the threaded (3-1/2") portion of a 14gauge 1/4"OD 10tpi self-tapping galvanized steel (6") woodscrew.
    Joint2 would be the original Eliminator 5/16 - 18 woodtowood flatface joint (ok). Anyhow, in addition to a homemade Joint1 being a problem, an Eliminator simply modyfyd in this way would be much too whippy for me (no good).

    PLAN B. I kood modyfy a 58" Eliminator by kutting 14" off the end of the 29" shaft (and throwing the 14" away)
    thinning and tapering the 15" half to 10mm (this would be Piece 1). That way Joint1 would be the original mid-joint (ie 5/16 - 18 woodtowood), which would be ok here i think.
    Then i kood kut the 29" butt in two (making Piece2 and Piece3), and Joint2 (ie re-joining theze two pieces) would be a homemade joint. The Joint2 pin would be partly in buttwood and partly in maple, koz it would be near the (sneakypete, 4-point) splice (not good).
    Piece4 would be made from a 15" length of 1-1/8" hardwood dowel. And Joint3 would be my homemade joint (ok here).
    An Eliminator modyfyd in this way would be much too stiff and noze-heavy unless i thinned the cue a little at Joint1 (not too much).

    I doubt that i will ever hav a go at making a 4pce cue -- unless i kood get my hands on a proper cue-lathe.
    And anyhow PLAN A would be hopeless (too whippy). PLAN B might work ok, if Joints2 and 3 were very accurat, but even so i think that a 4pce cue would not hit very well, it would suffer losses due to echoes, especially at Joint1 (even tho Joint1 iz lite-wt).
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-06-2014 at 08:00 PM.

  9. #39
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    Here iz a compressed pix of my three 3pce cues, allso shows three spare butt-pieces, at top a pristine 2pce Eliminator. Allso a plain pix.
    The bottom 3pce iz my favorit, the butt-pce iz 1-1/8" (no taper), i hav simply oiled it with linseed oil (i wont be painting it).
    mac.

    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-06-2014 at 09:36 PM.

  10. #40
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    Hi,
    heavy equipment always put extra pressure and players get extra burden. 3 piece cue or 4 piece cue are easy to handle and provide a balanced grip. titanium paddle wheelers quit best.

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