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Thread: 3 Piece Cues.

  1. #21
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    Gday Freddie -- thanx for that stuff.
    What sort of joint are Joint 1 and Joint 2 of lebow cue, and of gilbert cue?? And what sizes etc.

    Are they lite wood to wood joints (if steel or collared then would be noze-heavy I guess).

    Are they thick dia joints (if thick then cues would be noze-heavy I guess, no big deal u get used to it).
    I suppose that your Joint 1 dia and Joint 2 dia are exactly what u would find at the third-points of standard cues (or did u ask for different).
    (All of my Joint 1's are 0.850", ie same az mid-point joint of standard mid-joint 2pce pool cues).

    Iz there a wt-bolt added at end of butt (for balance)(I will probly add a wt bolt in mine).

    What total wts are the cues.

    How do they play?? Praps if heavy joints then praps they don't play very well (especially if thin joints).

    [My 3pce iz playing well, alltho I am having trouble with the new elk tips (too hard). Anyhow my 3pce iz looking promising -- kood be a goer for the 2014 billiards season. I am going to make a second separate 3pce cue this morning -- this cue will be 3 by 20"].

    Re a cue-case -- I am looking at secondhand ukulele-cases (or viola or clarinet or ???)(but I would look like a hoodlum, especially if I wore a white panama with a purple hatband). And I am looking at a soft bag/pouch sort of folding thing, praps with individual pockets (would havtabe homemade I guess).
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-17-2013 at 03:13 AM.

  2. #22
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    Billiards Digest Archival 3pce stuff.
    mac.
    http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ar...p/t-30276.html

    Az billiards archives stuff.
    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=85214

    Kilby makes 3pce wood to wood (with collars but) & spare shaft.
    http://www.caromcues.com/photo_gallery.htm
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-16-2013 at 03:16 PM.

  3. #23
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    Ok I made another 3pce Eliminator -- see pix hereunder.
    I shortened an Eliminator shaft by 9". And I shortened an Eliminator butt by 9". And I made a new 20" butt-pce from some 1-1/4" dowel.
    And this time I put a wt-bolt in the end of the butt-pce, for added wt, and for better balance.
    And I araldited on a 10mm Triumph tip, and it iz cooking over a globe at present. I will test the cue within the hour. No flys on me.
    mac.
    Hope I havnt layed an egg.

    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-17-2013 at 03:13 AM.

  4. #24
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    BOTTLE TAPERS.
    I am experimenting with parallel tapers and conical tapers and bottle tapers for my shafts, for the 3pce Eliminators, and for my 2pce Eliminators too. Bottle tapers are winning.

    A bottle taper allows me to hav a near parallel taper in the bizness part of my shaft (the bit that slides throo my Vee-Bridge).
    The thin bit of shaft near the qtip iz nearly parallel for approx 6 diameters (ie for a 10mm qtip parallel = 60mm).
    And then there iz a super-fast-taper approx 60mm long. Then the remainder iz original Eliminator shaft, ie nearly parallel.

    I find that this sort of bottle-taper dezign gets the most out of a shaft. In other words inkreecing the thin 60mm long section to more than 60mm, and/or inkreecing the super-fast-taper section to more than 60mm, giv very little benefit in relation to reducing deflection.

    Bob & Co say that deflection iz affected by the first 8" of shaft (for a 12.5mm qtip that equates to 16 diameters).
    My stuff suggests that wood outside 12 diameters duznt affect deflection (and wood outside 6 diameters very little).

    Bob & Co say that the 8" limit iz koz a bending-wave travelling along a cue iz slow compared to the axial compression-wave.
    I don't agree. I reckon that bending-waves hav little to do with anything much at all.
    I reckon that bending waves are something that happens well after the qtip loozes kontakt with the qball.
    Sure, the cue bends in at least 4 ways, with 4 lots of nodes and antinodes. But all of this happens later. It duznt affect deflection.
    I know that earlyer I sayd that bending-waves did affect deflection, but I woz wrong.

    The only wave that affects deflection iz the (very fast) compression-wave.
    However the compression-wave spawns a buckling-wave, which iz a form of bending-wave, but iz much faster than an ordinary bending-wave. Bob & Co's 8" iz due to flexure due to buckling, not due to flexure due to bending.

    When a long rod impakts a wall the leading end of the rod stops and goze sideways (if zero wall friction).
    And there might be a node say 8" from the leading end. Fore the node the rod bends (shifts) say left, aft the node the rod shifts right.
    The node iz a buckling node due to the compression-wave (it aint a bending node due to bending).
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-17-2013 at 03:12 AM.

  5. #25
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    SO HOW DUZZ BUCKLING AFFEKT THE HIT OF A 3PCE CUE??
    A cue akts like a column, it needs strength (stiffness) at mid-point. If u want to minimize wt, a column needztabe thick in the middle and thin at both ends. Some modern snooker cues hav what they call a cigar-taper (thick near the middle, thinning slightly towards end of butt).

    My 3pce Eliminators are ultra-thick near the middle.
    Joint 1 iz 20" from the qtip, and it retains the full original 0.850" wood-to-wood 5/16" 18tpi joint. I havnt checked exactly, but I reckon that Joint 1 (the original untouched Eliminator joint) adds less than 1oz to the cue. Joint 1 iz near what iz suppozedly the worst pozzy for a joint (loss of energy wize), so a heavy joint here would suck.

    A standard Stalin-Joint 1 or a Collared-Joint 1 would add praps 2oz or 3oz and the cue would looz hit (I reckon).
    There would be the same amount of deflection, but less power, giving less squerv (or more squerv, u know what I meen), which might be good in theory, but on a table it would giv too large a varyation in rezults (when uzing English) for a serious player. Cornerman's 3pce haz Collared-Joints I think -- Freddie might advize how it plays.

    My Joint 2 iz wood-to-wood, uzing a 3-1/2" length of 14gauge 1/4" steel wood skrew.
    This skrew iz loose. When assembling the cue I havta skrew it half-in to the mid-pce, and then half-in to the butt-pce. If it were fixed in one or other, it would add 1-3/4" to the length of that pce (bad). That's why I havnt fixed it. My cue-case kan now be 1-3/4" shorter.

    The wt of the 14gauge pin in my Joint 2 iz only 0.53oz.
    If steel haz a SG of 4.5, and wood a SG of 0.7, then the pin in my Joint 2 adds only 0.45oz to the cue wt (discounting replaced wood).
    Hencely my lite-wt Joint 2 duznt make the cue too noze-heavy (compared to a Stalin-Joint or a Collared-Joint).
    And, az we all know, there iz little energy loss (hit-loss) for a 3/4 joint -- Joint 2 iz 20" from the end of the butt (ie it iz a 2/3 joint). Hencely if my Joint 2 were a heavy Stalin-Joint it wouldn't badly affect energy loss (hit)(but it would make the cue noze-heavy).

    Anyhow, my 3pce Eliminators are so thick and stiff, and the joints are so lite-wt, that so far I hav not detected any loss
    of energy or loss of hit compared to my 2pce Eliminators. If anything, so far, I seem to detect a more konsistant deflection and a more konsistant squerv, ie when uzing english (and when not uzing english).
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-02-2014 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #26
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    I HAV DECIDED TO PAINT MY BUTTS LIKE DIDGERIDOOS.
    At present I hav two 3pce cues, ie two butt-pces to paint. I will get the paint in town today. Butts will be black, overpainted with lizards or snakes or footprints etc etc, which will be red and yellow and white (theze are the three colors of the three balls uzed in English Billiards), all uzing lots of small red & yellow & white dots (ie the native technique). I will post pix later in week when dunn.
    mac.

    http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...geridoo_01.png

  7. #27
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    OK I PAINTED ONE OF MY 3PCE BUTT-PCE'S LIKE A DIDGERIDOO (see pix)(and 2nd pix).
    I decided on a terentie goanna, uzing brown and white and black, uzing dots (i kood hav used x-ray painting, or even rarrk painting).
    I choze one big goanna rather than two little goannas. Two little goannas would photograph better, but would take a week to draw properly.
    One big goanna looks better in real life (ie in your hands) than what it might appear in the pix. I will paint a kleer finish over it tomorrow.
    I woz hoping that it would kum out better than it did, but it iznt such a bad first effort -- after all, indigenous guys hav had 50,000 yrs praktis doing dotty paintings (and 1500 yrs painting didgeridoos).

    Nextly I will decorate my other butt-pce -- I havnt decided on what to paint yet (snake), and what colors (yellow?).
    Later I will make a 3rd butt-pce (a spare), and I will paint that too.
    mac.



    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-19-2013 at 07:21 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cushioncrawler View Post
    Gday Freddie -- thanx for that stuff.
    What sort of joint are Joint 1 and Joint 2 of lebow cue, and of gilbert cue?? And what sizes etc.
    Lebow - Butt Joint is big radial pin. Shaft joint is a 5/16-18 pin into an insert in the front part of the shaft.

    With this cue, I had sent my Schuler cue to Sheldon Lebow so that every dimension including balance was hit. He nailed it. I also sent him some low squirt shafts to fit on it. Again, he nailed them both. It is the second most comfortable cue I have in my collection as it is dimensionally, weighted, and balanced like my main shooting cue. If only I had thought for him to put a wrap on it. I think it can still be done.


    You can see Alex Kanapilly's Sheldon Lebow 3-piece here, which shows the joints:

    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...1&postcount=22



    Gilbert - Andy Gilbert and Will Prout after seeing my 3-piece cue from Sheldon decided to make a run of them also. The cue is a 4-point cue, with a Linen wrap, 3/8ths-10 pins on both joints. They can be seen here:

    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=331572


    Both of these cues are very good players. Absolutely anyone would never know that they had anything other than a professional cue in their hands.



    Re a cue-case -- I am looking at secondhand ukulele-cases (or viola or clarinet or ???)(but I would look like a hoodlum, especially if I wore a white panama with a purple hatband). And I am looking at a soft bag/pouch sort of folding thing, praps with individual pockets (would havtabe homemade I guess).
    mac.
    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...8&postcount=19

    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...0&postcount=43

    http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...9&postcount=41

    Just for an FYI on 20-24" cases for a cue like this.



    Freddie
    --
    I have stood here before, inside the pouring rain

  9. #29
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    Freddie -- thanx for all that -- awesome.
    I am amazed that Sheldon kood giv the same balance, even with a (very lite-wt) 5/16-18 for Joint 1.
    Especially seeing az the taper etc haznt been downsized. Praps he put lots of balsa in the shaft. Praps aluminium or titanium instead of a stalin-pin (haz anyone ever thort of uzing a magnesium pin??).

    When I make my spare butt-pce (ie my third butt-pce) i will experiment with uzing plain old radiate pine (starting with a 1-1/4" rod from the local hardware store). Radiata haz a SG of praps 0.44 kompared to gumtree hardwood SG of say 0.80 -- hencely it shood help balance (not that I am very choozy, my 3pce balance iz about 2" off standard). And radiata shood be stiffnuff seeing az my cue (ie at Joint 2) will be so much thicker than standard. I hav stuck a 2.78oz wt-bolt in the very end of the first two but-pce's, and i will do likewize for No3 (in fakt i might uze 3.78oz, seeing az i like a cue-wt up over 21oz).

    But i continue to be surprized that usofa poolplayers hav a luvvaffair with linen-wrap (so slippery).
    The kleer-gloss on my butt-pce's will feel nice and sticky (English Billiards iz a slip-free zone).

    I got a 22" soft-bag from the muzik-store the other day (kost $25).
    I wanted 21", but 22" fits my No2 3-pce cue at a stretch (i plan to kut 2" off this cue later anyhow). The soft-bag works nicely, it haz 2 or 3 different sized zipper-pockets for chalk and wt-scales and spare balls etc etc. And if i ever take up trumpet or mini-ukulele i am larffing.

    Freddie your signature long-leather-round-case and thems other long-leather-flat-envelope-satchels look very classy.
    One day i will go that way too. It might be my Xmas prezzy for 2014.

    So, if they play so well, why aint 3pce poolcues more popular in the usofa??? -- so eezy to tote.
    But me myself i would get a custom fatter stiffer 3pce (and learn to like the noze-heavy balance). Or modyfy a 2pce at home.

    In my 12 Eliminators Projekt i modyfyd a standard whippy 2pce to make a stiffer 2pce (the stiffy plays much better).
    In this here 3pce cue project i further modyfyd a stiffy to make a 3pce (for eezyer toting), and in doing so it ended up thickerer and stifferer (a bonus)(a 3pce iz az thick at the 1/3point az an non-modyfyd cue iz a 1/2point). But now I will havta find which plays better, the 2pce stiffy or the 3pce stiffest.

    I uzed a wood-lathe to modyfy my Eliminators -- it haz a 7/8" hollow spindle (ie not quite a cue-lathe).
    Cost me $33 for the Eliminator (inklooding postage) -- and say $1 for the 14gauge wood-skrew (for Joint 2), and say $8 for a bit of 1-1/4" hardwood (for the butt-pce)(and everyone haz left-over kleer-gloss paint). But praps i kood hav dunn it all ok without a wood-lathe, eg with a bench drill etc.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 01-02-2014 at 01:11 AM.

  10. #30
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    Pix shows my 2nd effort at painting a butt-pce -- I decided on having 2 big bullants.
    Allso shown iz my 1st painted butt-pce -- a goanna. And my two mid-pce's -- and my 5 shafts -- and a fullsized shaft.
    We hav bullants on our land. I get a bullant sting about once a year. Painfull.
    We also hav grey kangaroos, black tailed wallaby's, echidnas, koalas, small goannas, jumping-jack ants, tiger snakes, copperhead snakes, land-crabs, etc etc. But I decided on the bullants.
    At our mountain home the bullants had a nest at about 25m spacings all over. Don't water your garden at dusk wearing sandals.
    I havnt been stung by jumping-jacks but they say they are worse than bullants even tho half the size.
    One of my workmates woz surveying and woz stung by lots of jumping-jacks (on hiz ankle), he woz carrying a hammer, so naturally he struck the jumping-jacks, and almost broke hiz ankle (the hammer-hurt woz worse than the sting-hurt).
    I remember back in 1968 my footy team had an end of season bus trip, and we had a nite-time BBQ bonfire on the side of the road outback somewhere, and I felt a bullant chewing on my sock (luckily it only half-stung me), naturally I poured some fosters on my foot to kill the pain and continued with drinking and singing -- and in the morning I found that the area of my ankle that had been wetted with fosters woz all bright red -- powerfull stuff bullant venom.
    mac.
    Last edited by cushioncrawler; 12-24-2013 at 07:59 AM.

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