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Thread: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

  1. #1
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    They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    Tuesday night 8 ball league. 9 footers (Thank God, as you all know, I can't stand barboxes!). One of my teammates needs 1 more win. She has this:

    START(
    %AO7O4%BM8P6%CK8O4%DM8N1%E\8H4%FL8P0%GL8N7%Ho0C0%I M7O3%JL8M5
    %KK8P6%LK8N1%ML8Q2%NK8Q8%OK8M0%PV6J4%eB9a4
    )END

    She's an SL2 and so I get up to give her a coach. I tell her to shoot the 5 straight down pass the 8. She loves to draw the ball and I told her to try to hit this one a bit above center. Nice and smooth. You're not going to scratch, the cue ball is going to naturally go to the left and you should get easy on the 8 ball. Instead, she tells me that she won't take that shot because she doesn't like those shots. So she shoots the 5 in the side with draw as usual and she ends up like this:

    START(
    %AO7O4%BM8P6%CK8O4%DM8N1%EN7P0%FL8P0%GL8N7%Hn1C3%I M7O3%JL8M5
    %KK8P6%LK8N1%ML8Q2%NK8Q8%OK8M0%Pm7\0%eB9a4
    )END

    Now she turns to me and asks me "what do I do now?" I walk over and I ask her, "what do you think?" She said "well I'm going to bank it." So I told her the best thing to do is to play safe. But she insisted on banking it (she's a bit of a hard head) so I reluctantly told her to put some left on the CB eventhough I know she can't make it (once a hardhead always a hardhead). She hits it on the center. We lost that one...

    Another coach for another teammate. He's on the hill, and he's got ball in hand. He's like this:

    START(
    %Em7K7%GD4H7%Hu5F0%eB9a4

    )END

    I tell him to shoot the 7 first, come back for the 5, and then he'll be right there for the 8. He wouldn't take my specifics as he feels he knows what he's doing. Sigh. He tells me that he's going to shoot the 5 first. I said that's not a good idea since you want your last ball to be near the 8 and you want to have the CB land in the vicinity of the 8. The way he wants is going to have him going up and then down which doesn't have to be 'cause he's got BIH. He insists that his way will work. He shoots the 5 first and leaves himself this:

    START(
    %GD4H7%Hu5F0%Pl1M8%eB9a4

    )END

    He won't even look my way! He mucks up the shot and loses. (He actually won the set with the next match. Whew!)

    Anway, that is the last time I give coaches if they're not going to be taken. In both instances, I asked them "well what do you think?" and then I'll give them my scenario. To the first one, I told her that she should practice the shots she's not comfortable with so that in a situation like this, she has to bear down and take it. And I told her that just because you can make a shot, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. Defensive play helps too (that was in reference to her first game). I felt like Stickman the other night. Very frustrating!

    Wendy~~this Coach is retiring [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] except for Tom [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] and there's snow on the WEI table! [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
    I Shoot Like A Girl.
    Damn Good.
    Ah f*&%it!

  2. #2
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    honestly, i think you're coming at this thing the wrong way. i'm almost always the one who gets asked to coach and i open it the same way you do, asking what they have in mind. i may just say go gettum or i may make some suggestions. either way, i feel like they are just asking for an opinion not making me the boss of their shot. sometimes, it's just like the catcher coming to the mound. giving 'em a chance to take a break and settle down some. either way, it's still their table and their shot and i don't get my ego bent if they choose to do something else. i also do not accept the blame if they take my advice and it blows-up on them.

    just a suggestion, no way you have to accept it.

    dan

  3. #3
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    i Hate to coach but sometimes you can see a person is gonna scratch or just not get on the next shot. problem with coaching besides stuburn people (pride) is that sometimes you have a person that lacks the skills to execute a shot in a certain way, the shot may require a CB hit of 1 o'cloack but the person cant or does'nt feel comfortable shooting like that. so you have to let them shoot it and just make it and hopfully have atleast a long shot for the next ball.
    you have to do the best you can with what you have to work with.

    nAz 2012 GOP presidential candidate



  4. #4
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> Another coach for another teammate. He's on the hill, and he's got ball in hand. He's like this:

    START(
    %Em7K7%GD4H7%Hu5F0%eB9a4

    )END

    I tell him to shoot the 7 first, come back for the 5, and then he'll be right there for the 8. He wouldn't take my specifics as he feels he knows what he's doing. Sigh. He tells me that he's going to shoot the 5 first. I said that's not a good idea since you want your last ball to be near the 8 and you want to have the CB land in the vicinity of the 8. <hr /></blockquote>

    Apparently he didn't execute very well, but if the diagram is accurate (8-ball partially blocks one pocket for the 5) I'd also choose the 5 first because it is the most difficult ball to get shape on. The 7 and 8 could be made from position zones half as large as the table.

    I'd play the 5 in one of several pocket choices and roll 'most anywhere uptable for the 7. Then I'd roll back 'most anywhere downtable for the 8. Having to shape the 5 for just one specific corner pocket adds more risk than I would deem necessary; you can over-roll by 12 inches and if you're also close to the ball you have a low-percentage shot into the side and a scratch risk to boot.

    Of course, everyone sees a different table, but that's probably how I would choose to play it.

    SpiderMan
    "If it's yellow and smells bad, it must be nine-ball. Or a diaper (or a Frenchman)."

  5. #5
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    <blockquote><font class="small">Quote houstondan:</font><hr> . . .asking what they have in mind. i may just say go gettum or i may make some suggestions. <hr /></blockquote>I hate to coach, since most of the time I am only asked when it seems like there's no good way to go, offensive or defensive. However, I think it's important that you give them a chance to see why their idea might not be the best, as opposed to just telling them what to do--even if it's "obvious" to you. You can give them good advice all day, but they have to be ready to take it.

    In the case with the guy having BIH (scenario #2), I don't see why he bothered to ask, but with the first teammate, I can't see why she'd go to the side, since it looks impossible(maybe, the diagram is off). However, assuming that the 5 was good for the side, she might have also been successful in positioning, if only she'd made sure to use enough 'steam' to get further back up table.

    BTW, your second diagram appears with the ball inside the cushions:

    START(%AO7O4%BM8P6%CK8O4%DM8N1%EN7P0%FL8P0%GL8N7%H n1C3%IM7O3%JL8M5
    %KK8P6%LK8N1%ML8Q2%NK8Q8%OK8M0%Pm7\0%eB9a4)END

    but, if you meant this:

    START(%Hm9C9%Pm9Z8)END

    then it would be nigh impossible to bank, with both balls frozen. However, if the cueball is far enough out (and both balls are in line with the diamonds) you can make it by shooting side-spin, towards the pocket, but aim to the inside as well, a hair off-center. It's something you have to practice a bit, to get the feel:

    START(%Hm9C9%Pm9Y2%Un1E8%Vm9X1%Wr7Z2%Xn0C7%eC5a2)E ND

    Alternatively, the 8 might make the corner, if you can get enough sidespin, and hit the rail first. If the cue ball is frozen, this would make it something of a masse, with the cue jacked-up:

    START(%Hm9C9%Pm9Z8%Ul7D0%Vl1C5%Wr3D0%Xn0C9%eC7a8%_ l1E0%`k9N7%am5Y9)END

    If there were a safe shot, I think that would be the better way to go (as you mentioned).



    ========================


    You are what you do when it counts.--The Masao
    heater<span style="color: red">451</span>

  6. #6
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    I can relate to a certain degree. What usually happened with me is that the player feels that they dont need a coach because they know how to hold a cue the same as anyone else. Therefore they think that they dont need a coach and feel like advice from a more experienced player is just like putting them and their capabilities down. It is a very touchy thing. When they finally realize themselves that they are losing because of poor shot choices then they will start to be more receptive to advice. Until then ya just gotta deal with it unfortunately.
    MastersMaster
    I don't want to change the world-I don't want the world to change me~~Ralph S.

  7. #7
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    To quote Chris Cass...

    Tap, Tap, Tap.

    Nice post.

  8. #8
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    Actually my diagrams are a little off. I did it while at work and the Boss was walking around. His shot was more like this:

    START(
    %AB6B2%BB3]4%CA8]7%DB9B1%En6J0%FA9]3%GB6B0%Hv1G3%IC9J2%JB2B2
    %LB5B2%MB2]5%OB1]4%eB7a4
    )END
    I Shoot Like A Girl.
    Damn Good.
    Ah f*&%it!

  9. #9
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    Point taken, Dan. If anything, I was getting asked by the Captain of the other team who was sitting next to me why I wasn't stopping her with most of her shots and believe it or not, I told him that it's her table and I'll coach her when I think I'll see something better. And when that time came, I asked, I suggested and explained why, and she took her shot. No broken ego here. My ego flew out the window when I started playing pool. [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
    I Shoot Like A Girl.
    Damn Good.
    Ah f*&%it!

  10. #10
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    Re: They Wouldn't Take My Coach

    My diagram is off. (Trying to do it fast at work while the Boss was lurking). The 8 ball was probably 3/4 of an inch off the rail, the CB, however, was frozen to the rail.
    I Shoot Like A Girl.
    Damn Good.
    Ah f*&%it!

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